Long-Winded Post: Replacing Golden Tate

[Pandion Haliaetus]

I'm not sure I'd claim Harvin will be as good of a down field blocker as Tate. Tate was an elite downfield blocker for a WR and we're going to miss that aspect of his game.

Hawk46,

To be fair I said Percy Harvin can also be a capable down-field blocker just not as punishing as Tate can be at times. Harvin, is a tank, he competes to win, and he can hold his ground. Obviously his size limits his effectiveness. However, I did state his ability to attract multiple defense into his area of influence is like an attribute of quality blocking.

And I'll also have to disagree with your last sentence, don't get me wrong because Tate was an outstanding blocker but Kearse and Lockette are also excellent blockers who are just as effective as Tate... and I'm in limited company but I feel Luke Willson will see a lot of WR snaps and he'll be an elite blocker on any DB from that position.

 

[HawkWow]

What concerns me most is the comma between "Long" and "Winded". It's un, nerving.

 

[HawkWow]

Percy replaces Tate, Kearse replaces Rice, Baldwin remains mannn.

Lockette replaces 2012 Kearse + Rice back (maybe) or a Rook for depth.

Miller, Willson and McCoy improves the TE.

We are fine without Tate.

I agree bro. We are fine...but not as good. And if Harvin goes down, we are much worse off without Tate. Not being argumentative, because I didn't want to pay Tate what Detroit paid him, anyway. Moot point but I sincerely hope they know what they're doing with Harvin. More and more eggs are going into that basket(case) and that does make me slightly uncomfortable.

 

[Tical21]

I believe this whole post could have been made quite simple really. A healthy Percy for most of the season automatically means we don't take a step backwards. Kearse taking another step forwards means our efficiency can become staggering. Add another step forward from Willson, and we easily eclipse this past season. There are some "ifs" here. Percy needs to be healthy. Kearse needs to improve. I think both are very reasonable expectations. I love Golden, but I think by the halfway point next season, his production is largely forgotten.

 

[Omahawk]

Golden Tate was overrated. He was the guy who filled in when everyone else was hurt. He got lucky a couple of times and acted like a showboat a couple of times. Other than that, he performed the way an NFL wide receiver is expected to. I don't understand why there's so much love for him. He was too short in my book. Not physical enough and hadn't yet learned how to act like he's used to seeing the endzone. I'm glad he's gone.

 

[jdemps]

All things considered, I still don't think Tate was irreplaceable... simply a product of the system. The majority of the 2013 offseason, before Percy's injury, the talk was how Tate was going to play less of a role in this offense and we installed all sorts of packages to utilize PH. When PH goes down, the talk was how Tate could jump in and fill that role. I never saw it. When Percy's on the field, defenses pay attention to him (read: safety help, bracket coverage). Tate NEVER commanded that kind of attention, but when they did do that to any extent, he disappeared. I think it's simple: Percy's faster and Baldwin's more clutch. I think we have a glut of receivers with similar skill sets and body types. We need a preinjury Sidney Rice type (big body, wide catch radius). To pay Tate like Detroit did is IMHO something that could've came back to bite the team in the ass when we have to look at other extending RW, ET, Sherm, Okung. I really liked Tate. I was angry when he signed with Detroit. Cooler minds prevail and say this will work out long term. Have to trust the system.

 

[hawknation2014]

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Harvin is MUCH better than Golden

 

[NYCoug]

Harvin's going to get dinged and miss games playing HAM all the time in that undersized body, just like Doug Baldwin.

I'm not really expecting much production from Harvin next year, he's going to be the focus of the defense all year unless we get another #1 type WR. That's okay though, Harvin will earn his paychecks just by being on the field and opening things up for everyone else..........

Logically, your last sentence above makes sense. But Percy's speed/burst may well throw logic out the door leading to a bigger season than you expect despite heavy focus from opposing defenses. I do agree he'll likely miss a game or two though. Hope we're both wrong about that.

I was literally going to quote this same exact sentence and pretty much say the same exact thing about Percy being able to kill it despite being the focus of the defense. Great minds, right hawksfansinceday1? I'll add that in Minnesota he kind of complimented AP, despite his own amazing talent, because well... AP is a freak of nature. Now, he's going to be more of "the man" this season coming up, but if team's stop paying attention to #24 then they're in big trouble.

Not to mention we're all about to witness Russell's first season of his life as a Super Bowl champion. Lord only knows what that man is capable of.

So yeah, I'm thinkin' Percy makes Pete and John look like geniuses yet again.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

I am still reviewing tape....er uh DVDs of Ariz, Rams (the final game of last season), Niners nfccg, and the superb owl. I have seen some things that equate to Tate being a great receiver and things that speak to the other direction. Some of the Rams game, the main receptions were in the middle of the field where Tate was able to get a slant catch in a zone read play. Most of the other efforts were I would say the defender was not paying attention. The DB was all over him most of the time. Separation was very minimal if at all. Not done reviewing yet but do understand now why we rewatch the games. I was watching one last night and I felt the good stuff watching the first half of the rams game. BTW....The Rams secondary is GOOD.

 

[SalishHawkFan]

Also, if the Seahawks had re-signed Tate, it would be fair assessment to say that he would be the 3rd best WR on this team after Harvin and Baldwin.

In conclusion, I have little doubt that Harvin, Baldwin, Kearse, and Lockette not only can rise to the occasion in replacing Tate but they can also cover Rice's production as well.

Bottom line is as long as health permits, the Seahawks passing game should be upgraded despite the losses of Tate and Rice as Harvin gets fully intergrated.

It's not a fair assessment at all that Tate would the 3rd best (or most valuable) WR, especially considering he was our punt returner. Even without returning punts I think a fair assessment would be that they were tied for #1 receiver last season. Tate was also virtually tied for #1 receiver in 2012 with a "true #1" Sidney Rice, they had almost the same exact yards per catch, and if Tate had as many targets as Sidney Rice he would of statistically been slightly better if my memory serves me. Even without averaging the target totals Tate was only about 64 total yards behind Sidney Rice in 2012 if I remember exactly.

So a fair assessment would be that as receivers Tate and Baldwin would be #2a and #2b, they are too closely matched to FAIRLY conclude one is better than another. If you factor in punt returning, overall athletic skill, and their max potential I think the edge goes quite easily to Tate. If there's one area you can knock Tate it's his mental focus and discipline, if he improves that to anywhere close to what Baldwin has I think it'd be pretty obvious who's better.

But anyways I think a fair assessment is that they are pretty much tied as receivers, although some may think Tate has more potential and adds additional value with his punt returns especially, some would just focus on Baldwin in the playoffs recently instead of their past 2 seasons as a whole.

I wouldn't question anyone who thinks they are very closely skilled or valuable to our team, but if anyone thinks Baldwin is far superior to Tate when there's nothing to back that up I have to doubt their opinion. Maybe a slight edge for personal preference, but this OP has been a Tate hater for quite some time if I remember correctly.

And your bottom line is "if health permits"?! Ok, well what if Harvin gets injured again since that Hip will never quite be the same... He looked fine vs. the Vikings but it knocked him out multiple more months. Those hip injuries do not have a history of fully healing, I just think he's gonna be a risky guy to stay healthy for the rest of his career. Plus he has a ton of migraine issues in the past and he seems to get concussions every time he takes a real hit.

So if Harvin DOES get injured which is VERY likely in my opinion, then you just WASTED A WHOLE LOT OF TIME arguing a mute point. Doesn't matter how good he is if he's injured, only time will tell.

As a Seahawks fan I want Harvin to stay healthy so we have a chance to repeat Superbowl. But from a logical standpoint I'm kind of expecting him to get injured and it will make a lot of people including our front office look VERY stupid when they undervalued Tate and let him walk.

At first I thought front loading the Michael Bennett contract to 10 million this year was brilliant to make room for next year, but I was assuming we would keep Tate too and we would be in a great situation. Now that we lost Tate and you just look at our current cap space situation paying Bennett so much this year is looking like a pretty dang stupid move to me. We really have very limited options now and if we don't get Jared Allen losing Chris Clemons is gonna look pretty stupid too since he got signed for 4.5 mill a year.

I understand fan fascination with Tate. He is "our guy," etc. For the sake of argument, let's say that Tate/Baldwin are equal, despite the fact that you think Tate is superior and I think Baldwin is superior. Kearse is just coming on as a WR. We are not paying people for what they have done, but for what they will do.

Going forward, I think the Hawks made a wise decision. Money will be tight, you cannot afford to pay mediocre players significant contracts. The mediocre players are the ones that are set up to be replaced by rookie contracts. It is the elite players on the team that you must keep. Wilson, Earl, Sherm, Chance, Wagner, Bennett, Lynch, Percy, Okung --these are your elite bunch. You have to pay these guys, attempt to keep as many of the rest as possible on value oriented contracts, or replace them with up coming talent.

All that said, I would not be in favor of breaking the bank for Kearse or Baldwin. I hope we can keep both, but they are not elite players. They are players that you can replace, just like Tate. They don't have the special/elite talent or production. Despite them not having the elite talent, let's say that Kearse/Baldwin turn into something special production wise --100+ catches, 1200 yards, 10 tds, etc. In that case you have to add them to your elite bunch because they have elite production.

Tate was a mediocre player on this team. The team is a run heavy offense. Tate was 1 of 4 5'10'' speedy type WRs you had on your team. You already are paying one an immense amount of money because he has special talent (percy), you can't afford to waste your cap space on Tate in this circumstance.

Agree with pretty much everything you said except I strongly disagree that Baldwin is not elite. He has had two healthy seasons and his rookie year ranked higher in DVOA than anything Harvin did at WR (not counting RB) and last year he ranked #2 in the NFL in DVOA. That puts him in the elite. He's a clutch 3rd down receiver. Reminds me of Belitnikov (sp?) the way he gets the clutch first downs.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Also reminds me of Bobby Engram, he was always getting those clutch 3rd down plays. Although I would say that Doug takes it next level. I mean, how many times did he make an incredible play in the 4th quarter by dragging his feet on the sidelines? So huge