Loss is on offense

[Jville]

Russ is amazing, but he has one huge weakness in that he can't (or won't) throw to the middle of the field, and rarely (if ever) hits the checkdown. Is Pete telling him not to do it? Maybe. But I personally don't think so.
https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/statu ... 94/photo/1

Here you go ..........
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1439756902334881794[/tweet]
..................... keep in mind that the Seahawks are a red line team.

 

[John63]

Russ is amazing, but he has one huge weakness in that he can't (or won't) throw to the middle of the field, and rarely (if ever) hits the checkdown. Is Pete telling him not to do it? Maybe. But I personally don't think so.
https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/statu ... 94/photo/1

Here you go ..........
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1439756902334881794[/tweet]
..................... keep in mind that the Seahawks are a red line team.

Wait I am confused I see a lot of short passes and even ones over the middle

 

[Jville]

Russ is amazing, but he has one huge weakness in that he can't (or won't) throw to the middle of the field, and rarely (if ever) hits the checkdown. Is Pete telling him not to do it? Maybe. But I personally don't think so.
https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/statu ... 94/photo/1

Here you go ..........
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1439756902334881794[/tweet]
..................... keep in mind that the Seahawks are a red line team.

Wait I am confused I see a lot of short passes and even ones over the middle

That will surprise no one.

 

[John63]

Russ is amazing, but he has one huge weakness in that he can't (or won't) throw to the middle of the field, and rarely (if ever) hits the checkdown. Is Pete telling him not to do it? Maybe. But I personally don't think so.
https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/statu ... 94/photo/1

Here you go ..........
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1439756902334881794[/tweet]
..................... keep in mind that the Seahawks are a red line team.

Wait I am confused I see a lot of short passes and even ones over the middle

That will surprise no one.

Since I am not sure you are saying I am confused which means you missed the sarcasm. Or if you are saying not surprised that we through short and love the middle.


My point was sarcasm as some here said we did not through short and did not throw over the middle which we did.

 

[chris98251]

Thats helpful in that it sheds light on a flaw in the passing game. Only 3 of those 25 passes went to the middle. And none went to a TE. Very few of the short game passes are aggressively schemed, attacking plays. They are often quick throws to the flat or along the sideline and seldom short to mid range middle of the field passes hitting a wr or TE in stride. When we do hit plays in those ranges they are often hooks where the receiver will either take his man upfield, brake and return to face the LOS to give Russ a target. OR, the WR will run up the field and find a spot in the Ds zone, and present to Russ.

We rarely if ever hit layered crossing routes over the middle. Nd if we do hit one its to lockett after he's crossed the entire field and broken several zones (ie. lonnngggg developing). Not having them allows a defense to sit comfortably and double our big threat guys or sit with eyes in the backfield to either cheat up to stop the run or nullify all of those short passes to the flat that we seem to throw exclusively. The above was obvious in the second half, and honestly the first half as well. in the 2nd half, the titans tightened up their back end to stop the big play, didnt even really have to guard the middle, and crashed down on the run and flat. In the first half, we presented enough of a running threat likely based on tape from last weeks game and some new plays, so that the titans played on edge a bit more and as a result, let Lockett and Swain get loose.

But once they realized that all we were going to do was what we did last year, they settled in and we played right into their hands. We literally gave their defense control.

The question is why. At this point its still the old question of whether its Pete pulling strings or Russ not being willing or able to threaten the short middle with quick timing passes.

All i'll say to that is from the post game assessments from Pete and Russ, Pete seemed puzzled if not frustrated as to why we didnt take what was there and move the chains instead of going long so often.

Russ seem to defend going long because of the big plays that resulted to Lock and Swain, AND ackowledged basically that it was his choice to not look to the TE's or more 'available plays (speaking specifically of his defense of his decisions in the OT possession).

And those two above critiques from the coach and qb make it obvious to me that the decision to hit the big play over the grind it out, chain moving, but attacking completion, or even setting up the run game off the pass... that was Russ.

We HAVE To run the ball better and more often, with more creativity and Russ HAS to make it a point to develop the short passing threat if we are going to have any chance of success this season.

If we dont involve the TE in a game, the answer as to why cannot be 'the defense didnt do anything in particular to take them away, we just chose to look long' (paraphrasing). That's losing football. Its high splash, highlight real plays when they work, and 3 and out the rest of the way. this team has too much talent around the QB for that to happen.

A lot of what you say I agree with. The biggest thing I have is where was all the motion and movement. Why did they go away from that The Russ has to develop short passing mos of his passes by a huge number were short? So that was not an issue.

It seems people look at the OT series and then say he never used the short pass when the plays I posted clearly show he used it a lot. So that narrative is false.

AS to the aggressive attacking plays well that's an OC thing.

I have questions and I am sure some was on Russ, but I think a lot appears to be a change in the plan from last week to this week. Again little to no motion or movement or misdirection. That said I don't put most of the blame for the loss on the offense I put it where it belongs to the defense.

Long laterals are considered a pass, but if your not gett8ng yardage and they are sniffed out regularly and just a dump off since he won't throw over the middle then its stat padding.

Take that defense to the Peoples Court it's worn out.

Actually Benching Wilson to wake him up may not be a bad idea really either, he needs to be smarter and not play Hero ball, he has talent around him, he should not need to. Just a Quarter or so, unannounced to get his attention.

and yet several were over the middle AS to your whole lateral were does it show in the past list a lateral? Answer it does not. Sorry but your need to ignore and dilute the FACTS to suit your purpose is what's old. I would tell you to take your stance to the people's court but you could not even get in since your facts are wrong again. As to your whole getting yards hmm let's see shall we, hmm 171 yards all off short passes. facts matter you should have counted before saying false hoods.

You really do know nothing about the game of football do you, long lateral or pass like a long hand off, stat padding for now or little gains versus YAC or RAC. I see very little in the middle for anything of note as well, no slants, hooks.

Oh and if I am a CB which I was, I look at film and see those lateral dump offs that float I am going to start looking at keys and jump those routes, I am guessing we will start seeing that happen and then it's pick six time based on the amount of throws that go there.

 

[John63]

A lot of what you say I agree with. The biggest thing I have is where was all the motion and movement. Why did they go away from that The Russ has to develop short passing mos of his passes by a huge number were short? So that was not an issue.

It seems people look at the OT series and then say he never used the short pass when the plays I posted clearly show he used it a lot. So that narrative is false.

AS to the aggressive attacking plays well that's an OC thing.

I have questions and I am sure some was on Russ, but I think a lot appears to be a change in the plan from last week to this week. Again little to no motion or movement or misdirection. That said I don't put most of the blame for the loss on the offense I put it where it belongs to the defense.

Long laterals are considered a pass, but if your not gett8ng yardage and they are sniffed out regularly and just a dump off since he won't throw over the middle then its stat padding.

Take that defense to the Peoples Court it's worn out.

Actually Benching Wilson to wake him up may not be a bad idea really either, he needs to be smarter and not play Hero ball, he has talent around him, he should not need to. Just a Quarter or so, unannounced to get his attention.

and yet several were over the middle AS to your whole lateral were does it show in the past list a lateral? Answer it does not. Sorry but your need to ignore and dilute the FACTS to suit your purpose is what's old. I would tell you to take your stance to the people's court but you could not even get in since your facts are wrong again. As to your whole getting yards hmm let's see shall we, hmm 171 yards all off short passes. facts matter you should have counted before saying false hoods.

You really do know nothing about the game of football do you, long lateral or pass like a long hand off, stat padding for now or little gains versus YAC or RAC. I see very little in the middle for anything of note as well, no slants, hooks.

Whatever you need to tell yourself to further your ridiculous narrative despite the facts right in front of your condescending face. First no short passes then we find out yes there were, then no over the middle which there was. so you switch to no slant to hooks, which the chart does not show what kind of pattern it was. But I am sure you will come up with some other BS, let me guess yeah but no left-handed passes.You are very blissful enjoy

 

[chris98251]

Long laterals are considered a pass, but if your not gett8ng yardage and they are sniffed out regularly and just a dump off since he won't throw over the middle then its stat padding.

Take that defense to the Peoples Court it's worn out.

Actually Benching Wilson to wake him up may not be a bad idea really either, he needs to be smarter and not play Hero ball, he has talent around him, he should not need to. Just a Quarter or so, unannounced to get his attention.

and yet several were over the middle AS to your whole lateral were does it show in the past list a lateral? Answer it does not. Sorry but your need to ignore and dilute the FACTS to suit your purpose is what's old. I would tell you to take your stance to the people's court but you could not even get in since your facts are wrong again. As to your whole getting yards hmm let's see shall we, hmm 171 yards all off short passes. facts matter you should have counted before saying false hoods.

You really do know nothing about the game of football do you, long lateral or pass like a long hand off, stat padding for now or little gains versus YAC or RAC. I see very little in the middle for anything of note as well, no slants, hooks.

Whatever you need to tell yourself to further your ridiculous narrative despite the facts right in front of your condescending face. First no short passes then we find out yes there were, then no over the middle which there was. so you switch to no slant to hooks, which the chart does not show what kind of pattern it was. But I am sure you will come up with some other BS, let me guess yeah but no left-handed passes.You are very blissful enjoy

So trading him to Chicago while he has value is out of the question then? He is going Hollywood, another QB had that issue, John Elway thought he was bigger then the game as well, it took injuries trusting the running game more then his arm and a coach that reigned him in for him to really be a complete QB and win the big one.

I don't need to listen to a less then Credible ESPN to get my understanding if that's what you call it, they fired most the credible people there, maybe you should follow Skip Bayless or Prisco also..

 

[John63]

and yet several were over the middle AS to your whole lateral were does it show in the past list a lateral? Answer it does not. Sorry but your need to ignore and dilute the FACTS to suit your purpose is what's old. I would tell you to take your stance to the people's court but you could not even get in since your facts are wrong again. As to your whole getting yards hmm let's see shall we, hmm 171 yards all off short passes. facts matter you should have counted before saying false hoods.

You really do know nothing about the game of football do you, long lateral or pass like a long hand off, stat padding for now or little gains versus YAC or RAC. I see very little in the middle for anything of note as well, no slants, hooks.

Whatever you need to tell yourself to further your ridiculous narrative despite the facts right in front of your condescending face. First no short passes then we find out yes there were, then no over the middle which there was. so you switch to no slant to hooks, which the chart does not show what kind of pattern it was. But I am sure you will come up with some other BS, let me guess yeah but no left-handed passes.You are very blissful enjoy

So trading him to Chicago while he has value is out of the question then? He is going Hollywood, another QB had that issue, John Elway thought he was bigger then the game as well, it took injuries trusting the running game more then his arm and a coach that reigned him in for him to really be a complete QB and win the big one.

I don't need to listen to a less then Credible ESPN to get my understanding if that's what you call it, they fired most the credible people there, maybe you should follow Skip Bayless or Prisco also..

Ahh I get it if they agree with you they are credible if they don't they are not credible. Got it, thanks for letting me know Q you are the weakest link good bye

 

[chris98251]

You really do know nothing about the game of football do you, long lateral or pass like a long hand off, stat padding for now or little gains versus YAC or RAC. I see very little in the middle for anything of note as well, no slants, hooks.

Whatever you need to tell yourself to further your ridiculous narrative despite the facts right in front of your condescending face. First no short passes then we find out yes there were, then no over the middle which there was. so you switch to no slant to hooks, which the chart does not show what kind of pattern it was. But I am sure you will come up with some other BS, let me guess yeah but no left-handed passes.You are very blissful enjoy

So trading him to Chicago while he has value is out of the question then? He is going Hollywood, another QB had that issue, John Elway thought he was bigger then the game as well, it took injuries trusting the running game more then his arm and a coach that reigned him in for him to really be a complete QB and win the big one.

I don't need to listen to a less then Credible ESPN to get my understanding if that's what you call it, they fired most the credible people there, maybe you should follow Skip Bayless or Prisco also..

Ahh I get it if they agree with you they are credible if they don't they are not credible. Got it, thanks for letting me know Q you are the weakest link good bye

General Knowledge Bucko nobody can take ESPN seriously anymore, it's the Disney Channel of sports.

Why they can't broadcast anymore, why Monday Night Football crashed and burned.

Also you think posting the same stats in 5 or so threads supports your hug fest with your cardboard cut out of Wilson, it doesn't, go back to the kiddie pool your out of your league and looking at most the posts and other opinions not ESPN and yours they disagree with your assessment as well.

But thats ok the board needs a bit of comic relief even if its like Ground hog day week after week.

You are not objective like most of the people that praise when Wilson does well and offer up constructive criticism when he doesn't.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Okay let's look at this whole short-throw thing. Below is every pass play in regulation. The ones that say short were short passes all this is from ESPN play-by-play.

I think you will find 25* short passes

• 2nd & 8 at SEA 27
(14:32 - 1st) (No Huddle, Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short left to D.Metcalf.
• 1st & 10 at SEA 30
(11:23 - 1st) R.Wilson pass deep left to T.Lockett to TEN 19 for 51 yards (B.McDougald).
• 3rd & 4 at TEN 13
(9:38 - 1st) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short right to T.Lockett.
• 2nd & 10 at SEA 25
(2:16 - 1st) (No Huddle, Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to D.Metcalf to SEA 29 for 4 yards (H.Landry).
• 3rd & 6 at SEA 29
(1:30 - 1st) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to F.Swain to SEA 38 for 9 yards (J.Jenkins; D.Cruikshank).
• 2nd & 8 at SEA 40
(0:10 - 1st) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to D.Metcalf to SEA 44 for 4 yards (J.Jenkins).
• 3rd & 4 at SEA 44
(15:00 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short right to D.Metcalf (J.Jenkins).
• 2nd & 19 at 50
(13:58 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to F.Swain pushed ob at TEN 45 for 5 yards (H.Landry; D.Long). Penalty on SEA-D.Metcalf, Offensive Holding, declined.
• 1st & 10 at SEA 17
(8:09 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to D.Metcalf to SEA 33 for 16 yards (E.Molden; R.Evans).
• 2nd & 6 at SEA 37
(6:34 - 2nd) Tyler Lockett Pass From Russell Wilson for 63 Yrds J.Myers extra point is GOOD, Center-T.Ott, Holder-M.Dickson.
• 1st & 10 at SEA 25
(1:05 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to T.Homer ran ob at SEA 36 for 11 yards (C.Jackson).
• 1st & 10 at SEA 36
(0:59 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to T.Lockett ran ob at SEA 44 for 8 yards (J.Jenkins).
• 2nd & 2 at SEA 44
(0:56 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to F.Swain ran ob at TEN 44 for 12 yards (C.Jackson).
• (0:51 - 2nd) Timeout #1 by TEN at 00:51.
• 1st & 10 at TEN 44
(0:51 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to D.Metcalf ran ob at TEN 36 for 8 yards.
• 1st & 10 at TEN 11
(0:29 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short left to D.Metcalf.
• 2nd & 10 at TEN 11
(0:25 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short right to T.Lockett [O.Adeniyi]. PENALTY on TEN-C.Jackson, Defensive Pass Interference, 10 yards, enforced at TEN 11 - No Play.
• 2nd & 2 at SEA 19
(10:02 - 3rd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to T.Lockett to SEA 20 for 1 yard (C.Jackson).
• 1st & 10 at SEA 21
(8:59 - 3rd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to D.Metcalf to SEA 35 for 14 yards (J.Jenkins).
• 1st & 10 at SEA 35
(8:26 - 3rd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to T.Lockett ran ob at SEA 45 for 10 yards.
• 2nd & 13 at SEA 42
(7:03 - 3rd) R.Wilson pass short right to T.Lockett pushed ob at TEN 47 for 11 yards (J.Jenkins).
• (6:22 - 3rd) Timeout #1 by SEA at 06:22.
• 1st & 10 at SEA 34
(15:00 - 4th) R.Wilson pass short left to C.Carson pushed ob at SEA 36 for 2 yards (K.Byard). PENALTY on SEA-D.Metcalf, Offensive Pass Interference, 10 yards, enforced at SEA 34 - No Play. Penalty on SEA-D.Metcalf, Offensive Holding, declined.
• 1st & 20 at SEA 24
(14:31 - 4th) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to F.Swain to SEA 25 for 1 yard (C.Jackson).
• 2nd & 19 at SEA 25
(13:55 - 4th) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to T.Lockett to SEA 32 for 7 yards (D.Long).
• 3rd & 12 at SEA 32
(13:06 - 4th) Freddie Swain 68 Yd pass from Russell Wilson (Jason Myers PAT failed)
• 2nd & 5 at SEA 30
(11:47 - 4th) R.Wilson pass short left to G.Everett to SEA 33 for 3 yards (K.Byard, J.Jenkins).
• 3rd & 2 at SEA 33
(11:03 - 4th) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete deep left to D.Metcalf (K.Fulton).
• 2nd & 8 at SEA 32
(5:12 - 4th) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short right to T.Lockett.
• 3rd & 8 at SEA 32
(5:08 - 4th) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to D.Metcalf to SEA 39 for 7 yards (H.Landry; K.Byard).
• 1st & 10 at SEA 28
(0:24 - 4th) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to T.Homer to SEA 31 for 3 yards (K.Fulton).
• (0:17 - 4th) Timeout #2 by SEA at 00:17.
• 2nd & 7 at SEA 31
(0:17 - 4th) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short right to G.Everett [B.Dupree]. SEA-B.Shell was injured during the play.
• (0:08 - 4th) Timeout #3 by SEA at 00:10. Required due to injury.
• 1st & 10 at SEA 43
(0:02 - 4th) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to T.Lockett pushed ob at TEN 30 for 27 yards (C.Jackson).

Might help to actually look at the facts and not just make them up

Thats helpful in that it sheds light on a flaw in the passing game. Only 3 of those 25 passes went to the middle. And none went to a TE. Very few of the short game passes are aggressively schemed, attacking plays. They are often quick throws to the flat or along the sideline and seldom short to mid range middle of the field passes hitting a wr or TE in stride. When we do hit plays in those ranges they are often hooks where the receiver will either take his man upfield, brake and return to face the LOS to give Russ a target. OR, the WR will run up the field and find a spot in the Ds zone, and present to Russ.

We rarely if ever hit layered crossing routes over the middle. Nd if we do hit one its to lockett after he's crossed the entire field and broken several zones (ie. lonnngggg developing). Not having them allows a defense to sit comfortably and double our big threat guys or sit with eyes in the backfield to either cheat up to stop the run or nullify all of those short passes to the flat that we seem to throw exclusively. The above was obvious in the second half, and honestly the first half as well. in the 2nd half, the titans tightened up their back end to stop the big play, didnt even really have to guard the middle, and crashed down on the run and flat. In the first half, we presented enough of a running threat likely based on tape from last weeks game and some new plays, so that the titans played on edge a bit more and as a result, let Lockett and Swain get loose.

But once they realized that all we were going to do was what we did last year, they settled in and we played right into their hands. We literally gave their defense control.

The question is why. At this point its still the old question of whether its Pete pulling strings or Russ not being willing or able to threaten the short middle with quick timing passes.

All i'll say to that is from the post game assessments from Pete and Russ, Pete seemed puzzled if not frustrated as to why we didnt take what was there and move the chains instead of going long so often.

Russ seem to defend going long because of the big plays that resulted to Lock and Swain, AND ackowledged basically that it was his choice to not look to the TE's or more 'available plays (speaking specifically of his defense of his decisions in the OT possession).

And those two above critiques from the coach and qb make it obvious to me that the decision to hit the big play over the grind it out, chain moving, but attacking completion, or even setting up the run game off the pass... that was Russ.

We HAVE To run the ball better and more often, with more creativity and Russ HAS to make it a point to develop the short passing threat if we are going to have any chance of success this season.

If we dont involve the TE in a game, the answer as to why cannot be 'the defense didnt do anything in particular to take them away, we just chose to look long' (paraphrasing). That's losing football. Its high splash, highlight real plays when they work, and 3 and out the rest of the way. this team has too much talent around the QB for that to happen.

A lot of what you say I agree with. The biggest thing I have is where was all the motion and movement. Why did they go away from that The Russ has to develop short passing mos of his passes by a huge number were short? So that was not an issue.

It seems people look at the OT series and then say he never used the short pass when the plays I posted clearly show he used it a lot. So that narrative is false.

AS to the aggressive attacking plays well that's an OC thing.

I have questions and I am sure some was on Russ, but I think a lot appears to be a change in the plan from last week to this week. Again little to no motion or movement or misdirection. That said I don't put most of the blame for the loss on the offense I put it where it belongs to the defense.

Long laterals are considered a pass, but if your not gett8ng yardage and they are sniffed out regularly and just a dump off since he won't throw over the middle then its stat padding.

Take that defense to the Peoples Court it's worn out.

Actually Benching Wilson to wake him up may not be a bad idea really either, he needs to be smarter and not play Hero ball, he has talent around him, he should not need to. Just a Quarter or so, un announced to get his attention.

You think his agent was stirring up Sxxx this off-season, he would go nuclear if Pete Benched Russell. I'd love to see it, but I don't think it would change anything.

 

[keasley45]

I will say it again, and likely get flamed, but this isn't Russ hate, or dumping on a QB that has been the best the franchise has seen.

But it's like hoxrox said. This is now Russel's offense with he and Shane calling the strategy and Russ going where he wants with the ball.

I look at the Rams and the diversity that they have shown on offense over the first 2 weeks this year. This offseason was a case of their HC going out and getting his QB to run the offense to its full potential. The result - from the opening snap, their offense has been full go. Qb and playcaller on the same page, with a full array of plays at their disposal.

In seattle, it was a case of the QB wanting his OC. In comes Waldron and all we hear about as how well the two have meshed. Over the first two games, we've seen them together on the sidelines discussing the game and assuming strategy for upcoming series. The result over now 2 weeks- an offense that has shown some ability to disguise plays via motion and variable formations, but the same inability or lack of will to throw to the middle third of the field. No drags, no layered crossing patterns, no using the shirt passing game like a scalpel to cut through a defense. Just short passes to the flat in 'outlet' fashion.

Why is Stafford lighting it up with a dynamic pkaybook and Russ is falling into the same old pattern, and now defending his decision in post-game to not target TEs and take drive extending routes over big splash plays. You'd think that if what he wanted was the Swiss army knife of a passing attack that now, given free reign, he'd be eager to play with it... take it for a test drive, and NOT do the same stuff he was known for last year.. tossing the long ball for multiple TDs a game.

It is in my mind not only possible but now probable that one significant reason our offense isn't as diverse as it could be is that Russ either doesn't want to run what Shane is obviously capable of bringing, or he is struggling with it and is disguising the fact with obtuse justifications for why he's doing- I for one think his explanation for why the OT possession failed so miserably was really poor.

If we see 2 more weeks of the same from our QB their won't be room to hide anymore if the problem is indeed not Pete yanking pages from the playbook on the sideline or Shane being a dud of an OC. Every player interviewed in the offseason hailed Shane as a 'genius', Russ included, and spoke about how fast and complex the O is going to be.

Pete has been pretty clear this week about wishing the offense had been better about taking the passes that were available, and shorter, rather than going deep for conversions. Youd have to assume that given we tossed 25 sbort passes, Pete didn't qualify those as being effective hits.. but Pete even defended Russ's tendency to only go deep, saying he can't fault him necessarily because it worked a few times... but his take on the situation was clear... fewer deep balls would have been better.

I think its time to just consider the possibility that the reason we look the way we do is because Russ is struggling to do more. Whether it's because he can't see the routes or is slow on making the read and as a result is always late getting the ball out , and thus holding it...whatever it is.

I can tell you from having played football myself that the plays that would be easiest for a QB to see are those not immediately obstructed by lineman. Those would be deep passes, flat passes and passes not over the middle. Now you can go ahead and claim that Pete's preference would also be to not throw risky passes over the middle. I think his logic their is correct. Passes in that zone are more likely to see bad things happen. But i don't think any coach would ever say to unequivocally, never ever throw a ball to what amounts to a third of the field. And again, Pete wasn't praising the passing attack outside of the successful long balls. And Russ an Shane looked to be doing their own thing.

Love Russ but if in fact we can't run anything more effective than what we've seen over the last two years + , because Russ can't or won't change, the shine is gonna wear a bit. Doesnt mean we can't win because the two superbowls we've been in didn't require Russ to do a ton as a traditional, dropback, read and release type qb, and was predicated on a string run game.

I also think that even if the above is true, that we can at least now say comfortably that we have an OC who can add to what Russ does well and disguise our way through plays / scheme an effective run game.

But it will certainly leave a bad taste in my mouth for all the drama this offseason and finger pointing that came from our QB.

 

[OrangeGravy]

I will say it again, and likely get flamed, but this isn't Russ hate, or dumping on a QB that has been the best the franchise has seen.

But it's like hoxrox said. This is now Russel's offense with he and Shane calling the strategy and Russ going where he wants with the ball.

I look at the Rams and the diversity that they have shown on offense over the first 2 weeks this year. This offseason was a case of their HC going out and getting his QB to run the offense to its full potential. The result - from the opening snap, their offense has been full go. Qb and playcaller on the same page, with a full array of plays at their disposal.

In seattle, it was a case of the QB wanting his OC. In comes Waldron and all we hear about as how well the two have meshed. Over the first two games, we've seen them together on the sidelines discussing the game and assuming strategy for upcoming series. The result over now 2 weeks- an offense that has shown some ability to disguise plays via motion and variable formations, but the same inability or lack of will to throw to the middle third of the field. No drags, no layered crossing patterns, no using the shirt passing game like a scalpel to cut through a defense. Just short passes to the flat in 'outlet' fashion.

Why is Stafford lighting it up with a dynamic pkaybook and Russ is falling into the same old pattern, and now defending his decision in post-game to not target TEs and take drive extending routes over big splash plays. You'd think that if what he wanted was the Swiss army knife of a passing attack that now, given free reign, he'd be eager to play with it... take it for a test drive, and NOT do the same stuff he was known for last year.. tossing the long ball for multiple TDs a game.

It is in my mind not only possible but now probable that one significant reason our offense isn't as diverse as it could be is that Russ either doesn't want to run what Shane is obviously capable of bringing, or he is struggling with it and is disguising the fact with obtuse justifications for why he's doing- I for one think his explanation for why the OT possession failed so miserably was really poor.

If we see 2 more weeks of the same from our QB their won't be room to hide anymore if the problem is indeed not Pete yanking pages from the playbook on the sideline or Shane being a dud of an OC. Every player interviewed in the offseason hailed Shane as a 'genius', Russ included, and spoke about how fast and complex the O is going to be.

Pete has been pretty clear this week about wishing the offense had been better about taking the passes that were available, and shorter, rather than going deep for conversions. Youd have to assume that given we tossed 25 sbort passes, Pete didn't qualify those as being effective hits.. but Pete even defended Russ's tendency to only go deep, saying he can't fault him necessarily because it worked a few times... but his take on the situation was clear... fewer deep balls would have been better.

I think its time to just consider the possibility that the reason we look the way we do is because Russ is struggling to do more. Whether it's because he can't see the routes or is slow on making the read and as a result is always late getting the ball out , and thus holding it...whatever it is.

I can tell you from having played football myself that the plays that would be easiest for a QB to see are those not immediately obstructed by lineman. Those would be deep passes, flat passes and passes not over the middle. Now you can go ahead and claim that Pete's preference would also be to not throw risky passes over the middle. I think his logic their is correct. Passes in that zone are more likely to see bad things happen. But i don't think any coach would ever say to unequivocally, never ever throw a ball to what amounts to a third of the field. And again, Pete wasn't praising the passing attack outside of the successful long balls. And Russ an Shane looked to be doing their own thing.

Love Russ but if in fact we can't run anything more effective than what we've seen over the last two years + , because Russ can't or won't change, the shine is gonna wear a bit. Doesnt mean we can't win because the two superbowls we've been in didn't require Russ to do a ton as a traditional, dropback, read and release type qb, and was predicated on a string run game.

I also think that even if the above is true, that we can at least now say comfortably that we have an OC who can add to what Russ does well and disguise our way through plays / scheme an effective run game.

But it will certainly leave a bad taste in my mouth for all the drama this offseason and finger pointing that came from our QB.

I agree. After all the bluster this off-season, this year is all on Russell. Can't hide anymore. Still time for Waldron to get him run the offense how it's supposed to run, but I'm not gonna hold my breath

 

[BASF]

But it will certainly leave a bad taste in my mouth for all the drama this offseason and finger pointing that came from our QB.

I eliminated most of the quote, which was well thought out and I agree with almost all of it, because I want to address this part only. I have believed since the first complaints this offseason that came from Russ' "people" that it was damage control because all of the talking heads were questioning what had happened to Russell Wilson. Why did he fail so badly in the playoff game when the game plan was so obviously let him throw the ball was the major talking point on the sports channels. Wilson using his friend Dan Patrick to further this damage control and shifting of the onus of his failure onto the offensive line and his coaching staff was a total PR move.

 

[OrangeGravy]

But it will certainly leave a bad taste in my mouth for all the drama this offseason and finger pointing that came from our QB.

I eliminated most of the quote, which was well thought out and I agree with almost all of it, because I want to address this part only. I have believed since the first complaints this offseason that came from Russ' "people" that it was damage control because all of the talking heads were questioning what had happened to Russell Wilson. Why did he fail so badly in the playoff game when the game plan was so obviously let him throw the ball was the major talking point on the sports channels. Wilson using his friend Dan Patrick to further this damage control and shifting of the onus of his failure onto the offensive line and his coaching staff was a total PR move.

100% PR move. Who knows how much is the agent vs Russ himself. They started 2 offseasons ago by planting the let Russ cook stuff. It backfired with his 2ns half of the season. They had to change the narrative.

 

[keasley45]

But it will certainly leave a bad taste in my mouth for all the drama this offseason and finger pointing that came from our QB.

I eliminated most of the quote, which was well thought out and I agree with almost all of it, because I want to address this part only. I have believed since the first complaints this offseason that came from Russ' "people" that it was damage control because all of the talking heads were questioning what had happened to Russell Wilson. Why did he fail so badly in the playoff game when the game plan was so obviously let him throw the ball was the major talking point on the sports channels. Wilson using his friend Dan Patrick to further this damage control and shifting of the onus of his failure onto the offensive line and his coaching staff was a total PR move.

100% PR move. Who knows how much is the agent vs Russ himself. They started 2 offseasons ago by planting the let Russ cook stuff. It backfired with his 2ns half of the season. They had to change the narrative.

Although I've suspected the same myself, I'm sincerely hoping that's not the case and Pete actually IS thinning the playbook and requesting certain strategies not be implemented. Because if it actually has all been Russ feeling as though the gig is up and diverting blame, what's the end game now? By mid-season, if we can't get our stick out of the mud offensively, the available excuses are none, barring some major injury along the o-line or wr.

The locker room and front office will be a very uncomfortable place to be if the struggles continue and the fault is obviously at #3s feet.

Best case, we trudge through the season to a slightly better than average record and maybe sneak into the playoffs.

Worst case, we implode and God knows where we finish.

In either scenario, this season would mark the end of an era. And I don't mean to sound fatalistic saying that but it's going to be hard for RW to explain away all of the BS of this last offseason & stay in Seattle. I'd wager he moves on to another team or I wouldn't be surprised if he even took a take a brief pause from the game.