Make No Mistake The 49ers are the Real Threat NOT the Rams

[RolandDeschain]

I remember when the Hawks started to get good with Wilson and Co. It was all DVOA this and DVOA that to prove that they were the best team in the league, or that the 49ers weren't as good as them. It was an uncomfortable statistic for some of us.

Well, things change:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff/2019

SF #1, SEA #9, LAR #17, AZ #28

The only counterargument here is "well, let's see after week 17!"

True perhaps, but as of right now.... :2thumbs:

I still love DVOA, and I've been an ardent defender of it since forever.

That being said, even they say that it takes around half a season to "settle down" and fluctuate less.

 

[Maulbert]

Seahawks were #1 DVOA apparently from 2012-2015, by season's end.

49ers never finished higher than 4th under Harbaugh. His last season a respectable 11th, then it was in the 20s and as low as 32 under Tomsula.

20th in 2017, 30th in 2018.

Either the high DVOA ranks were completely coincidental when the Hawks were a SB contender each year, or the Niners are a top team this moment. Patriots are #2 right now, BTW.

Can't have it both ways.

Seahawks weren't first in DVOA 5 games into 2012, and I'd doubt they were in 2014 or 2015, either. The Hawks have been notoriously slow starters under Carroll. I'll give the 49ers credit if they're there in week 17. At this points, you're just making one of those false equivalencies you love to shove out that are riddled with holes. It's what you do.

Troll.

 

[NINEster]

Seahawks were #1 DVOA apparently from 2012-2015, by season's end.

49ers never finished higher than 4th under Harbaugh. His last season a respectable 11th, then it was in the 20s and as low as 32 under Tomsula.

20th in 2017, 30th in 2018.

Either the high DVOA ranks were completely coincidental when the Hawks were a SB contender each year, or the Niners are a top team this moment. Patriots are #2 right now, BTW.

Can't have it both ways.

Seahawks weren't first in DVOA 5 games into 2012, and I'd doubt they were in 2014 or 2015, either. The Hawks have been notoriously slow starters under Carroll. I'll give the 49ers credit if they're there in week 17. At this points, you're just making one of those false equivalencies you love to shove out that are riddled with holes. It's what you do.

Troll.

No.

What I'm trying to do here is tell some of you to start giving credit. DVOA cuts through the crap of "they haven't played anybody yet". The only two unbeaten teams are top two in overall DVOA. The remainder of the top 10 are some other good teams too.

DVOA was used so much on .NET during the early years that it was an instant thing to latch onto once the tides were turned. I didn't go hunting for it, it just happened to find me.

At the very least you could say "right now they are playing like a top team, legit. Let's see if this keeps up", and we'd have some common ground.

Right now up until last Monday the 49ers have been playing better football than the Seahawks. Against common AFC North opponents already we've seen it, and this weekend will give us another sample of common opponents from just the last 7 days. It won't be a perfect way to compare given they play opposite stadiums, but it's something.

Being a better team and playing better football are not necessarily the same thing. The Patriots will always be a great team even if they have patches of playing like crap, which has often been the case the last few years.

TwistedHusky said what no Niner fan could get away with on the main forum. Should be stickied.

 

[NINEster]

I remember when the Hawks started to get good with Wilson and Co. It was all DVOA this and DVOA that to prove that they were the best team in the league, or that the 49ers weren't as good as them. It was an uncomfortable statistic for some of us.

Well, things change:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff/2019

SF #1, SEA #9, LAR #17, AZ #28

The only counterargument here is "well, let's see after week 17!"

True perhaps, but as of right now.... :2thumbs:

I still love DVOA, and I've been an ardent defender of it since forever.

That being said, even they say that it takes around half a season to "settle down" and fluctuate less.

This is a far more reasonable post than Maulbert's. :irishdrinkers:

Maulbert could buy the Seahawks before he could ever say "touche" to another person.

 

[Maulbert]

Seahawks were #1 DVOA apparently from 2012-2015, by season's end.

49ers never finished higher than 4th under Harbaugh. His last season a respectable 11th, then it was in the 20s and as low as 32 under Tomsula.

20th in 2017, 30th in 2018.

Either the high DVOA ranks were completely coincidental when the Hawks were a SB contender each year, or the Niners are a top team this moment. Patriots are #2 right now, BTW.

Can't have it both ways.

Seahawks weren't first in DVOA 5 games into 2012, and I'd doubt they were in 2014 or 2015, either. The Hawks have been notoriously slow starters under Carroll. I'll give the 49ers credit if they're there in week 17. At this points, you're just making one of those false equivalencies you love to shove out that are riddled with holes. It's what you do.

Troll.

No.

What I'm trying to do here is tell some of you to start giving credit. DVOA cuts through the crap of "they haven't played anybody yet". The only two unbeaten teams are top two in overall DVOA. The remainder of the top 10 are some other good teams too.

DVOA was used so much on .NET during the early years that it was an instant thing to latch onto once the tides were turned. I didn't go hunting for it, it just happened to find me.

At the very least you could say "right now they are playing like a top team, legit. Let's see if this keeps up", and we'd have some common ground.

Right now up until last Monday the 49ers have been playing better football than the Seahawks. Against common AFC North opponents already we've seen it, and this weekend will give us another sample of common opponents from just the last 7 days. It won't be a perfect way to compare given they play opposite stadiums, but it's something.

Being a better team and playing better football are not necessarily the same thing. The Patriots will always be a great team even if they have patches of playing like crap, which has often been the case the last few years.

TwistedHusky said what no Niner fan could get away with on the main forum. Should be stickied.

I have said nothing to the effect that the Seahawks are better this year. Not once. It is true you've beaten bad teams better than we have. But try asking people who is a better team: Rams or 49ers. Despite the Rams losing to Tampa and the 49ers beating them, I'd be shocked if the answer wasn't at least 60% for the Rams. The only difference is track record. The Rams have been good for the last 2 seasons. The 49ers have sucked for the last 4.

ESPN has Seattle ranked ahead of the 49ers right now. I'm not debating the wisdom of that decision, but the difference is track record. Something you ignore in your persistent denial that Russell Wilson is a top 5 QB. You can't respect Seattle is even mildly a threat as long as Wilson is healthy, despite years of evidence. Why should I respect the 49ers for taking a dump on 4 inferior teams after years of ineptitude?

Troll.

 

[Maulbert]

I remember when the Hawks started to get good with Wilson and Co. It was all DVOA this and DVOA that to prove that they were the best team in the league, or that the 49ers weren't as good as them. It was an uncomfortable statistic for some of us.

Well, things change:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff/2019

SF #1, SEA #9, LAR #17, AZ #28

The only counterargument here is "well, let's see after week 17!"

True perhaps, but as of right now.... :2thumbs:

I still love DVOA, and I've been an ardent defender of it since forever.

That being said, even they say that it takes around half a season to "settle down" and fluctuate less.

This is a far more reasonable post than Maulbert's. :irishdrinkers:

Maulbert could buy the Seahawks before he could ever say "touche" to another person.

And as far as calling you on your shit, I will continue to do so. Because a troll is a troll is a troll no matter how hard you try to obscure it.

Troll.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I'm a firm believer in "steel vs. steel" giving teams more of an edge in preparation for the playoffs, so to that end, I say: it's about time the 49ers stopped sucking again, and bring it on, mo-fos.

I am NOT wishing you success, however. I also don't find you guys as hateable without Kaepersoapbox and Douchebaugh. Maybe some players/coaches on your side will step up to fill the void.

 

[SF49r]

I'm a firm believer in "steel vs. steel" giving teams more of an edge in preparation for the playoffs, so to that end, I say: it's about time the 49ers stopped sucking again, and bring it on, mo-fos.

I am NOT wishing you success, however. I also don't find you guys as hateable without Kaepersoapbox and Douchebaugh. Maybe some players/coaches on your side will step up to fill the void.

You can start hating Sherman

 

[RolandDeschain]

I'm a firm believer in "steel vs. steel" giving teams more of an edge in preparation for the playoffs, so to that end, I say: it's about time the 49ers stopped sucking again, and bring it on, mo-fos.

I am NOT wishing you success, however. I also don't find you guys as hateable without Kaepersoapbox and Douchebaugh. Maybe some players/coaches on your side will step up to fill the void.

You can start hating Sherman

I still like Sherman, and miss him...so, no. That being said, his little drama with Mayfield certainly made him look like (Gordon Ramsay voice) a right wanker.

 

[Fade]

The Rams are going to take a step back next year. The salary cap situation they find themselves in, while having to carry Gurly's contract and pay Goff with a rapidly aging O-Line is going to make for a rough 2019.

McVay got figured out by Fangio, when he realized all the Rams were doing was running playaction pass when you had base personnel, and then would run with Gurley when the D had nickel personal. Teams got the film of that game, and the Rams haven't been the same since. I am over simplifying a bit of course, but it is very true.

Kupp was a big loss as well, and outside of their LT & LG is the best player on their offense. Though the LT will probably retire, and the LG is a UFA. So Kupp might be the best offensive player on the Rams in the not too distant future.


The 49ers are a bigger threat in 2019. Shanny has built a great offense with not a lot at running back or wide receiver. Which I think will be fixed in Free Agency.

They really just need to improve their secondary, and will surely add a blue chip edge rusher with the 2nd pick in the draft.

The 49ers are the real competition in 2019 for the Division.

As a Niners fan. I must say (with all the respect in the world) put the alcohol away and get some sleep.

As a Seahawks fan. I must say (with all respect in the world), how do you not even know your own team?

Seahawks fans know more about the Niners, than Niner fans know about the Niners. :2thumbs:

 

[NINEster]

The Rams are going to take a step back next year. The salary cap situation they find themselves in, while having to carry Gurly's contract and pay Goff with a rapidly aging O-Line is going to make for a rough 2019.

McVay got figured out by Fangio, when he realized all the Rams were doing was running playaction pass when you had base personnel, and then would run with Gurley when the D had nickel personal. Teams got the film of that game, and the Rams haven't been the same since. I am over simplifying a bit of course, but it is very true.

Kupp was a big loss as well, and outside of their LT & LG is the best player on their offense. Though the LT will probably retire, and the LG is a UFA. So Kupp might be the best offensive player on the Rams in the not too distant future.


The 49ers are a bigger threat in 2019. Shanny has built a great offense with not a lot at running back or wide receiver. Which I think will be fixed in Free Agency.

They really just need to improve their secondary, and will surely add a blue chip edge rusher with the 2nd pick in the draft.

The 49ers are the real competition in 2019 for the Division.

As a Niners fan. I must say (with all the respect in the world) put the alcohol away and get some sleep.

As a Seahawks fan. I must say (with all respect in the world), how do you not even know your own team?

Seahawks fans know more about the Niners, than Niner fans know about the Niners. :2thumbs:

What it is, is some annoying cuckery going on by some Niner fans that feel that by being super subservient on a Hawks site that their opinions will mean more or they'll be accepted more. It's nonsense and I wish it would stop. There are ways to pump the brakes without it being over the top. You'll never see the same people posting this stuff on their home site, so no reason the analysis should change here. Certainly the Seahawk fans that visit the Zone don't come in talking down or dismissing their team (if anything they're bigger homers).

Fan is short for fanatic which is basically a slightly irrational follower of a team. The only valuable viewpoint from a rival fan's is one that sees things half full, sees things only the real fan could see, etc. Doesn't mean it's right but it's a viewpoint worth taking.

I've seen stuff on .NET over the years from the main forum that would prove true that others didn't foresee around the league.

Likewise, the other duty we are here to fill for each other is to attack perceived weaknesses in other teams. Boy did .NET go off on Kaepernick like he was the worst starting QB in the history of the sport. Some of it was exaggerated, some of it had some basis.

If it wasn't so personal, I could have looked at Wilson a bit more rationally and with less emotion. I still maintain all of my positions on him until proven otherwise, but yeah it is what it is. You listening Maulbert?

 

[NINEster]

I'm a firm believer in "steel vs. steel" giving teams more of an edge in preparation for the playoffs, so to that end, I say: it's about time the 49ers stopped sucking again, and bring it on, mo-fos.

I am NOT wishing you success, however. I also don't find you guys as hateable without Kaepersoapbox and Douchebaugh. Maybe some players/coaches on your side will step up to fill the void.

When Wilson and Carroll retire, the feeling will be mutual. :irishdrinkers:

 

[Washington49er]

The Rams are going to take a step back next year. The salary cap situation they find themselves in, while having to carry Gurly's contract and pay Goff with a rapidly aging O-Line is going to make for a rough 2019.

McVay got figured out by Fangio, when he realized all the Rams were doing was running playaction pass when you had base personnel, and then would run with Gurley when the D had nickel personal. Teams got the film of that game, and the Rams haven't been the same since. I am over simplifying a bit of course, but it is very true.

Kupp was a big loss as well, and outside of their LT & LG is the best player on their offense. Though the LT will probably retire, and the LG is a UFA. So Kupp might be the best offensive player on the Rams in the not too distant future.


The 49ers are a bigger threat in 2019. Shanny has built a great offense with not a lot at running back or wide receiver. Which I think will be fixed in Free Agency.

They really just need to improve their secondary, and will surely add a blue chip edge rusher with the 2nd pick in the draft.

The 49ers are the real competition in 2019 for the Division.

As a Niners fan. I must say (with all the respect in the world) put the alcohol away and get some sleep.

As a Seahawks fan. I must say (with all respect in the world), how do you not even know your own team?

Seahawks fans know more about the Niners, than Niner fans know about the Niners. :2thumbs:

I don't know about that, a I know plenty "12s" that dont know who Largent is.

 

[RolandDeschain]

When Wilson and Carroll retire, the feeling will be mutual. :irishdrinkers:

Wait; are you trying to imply that Wilson and Carroll are hateable to a similar degree as Kaepernick and Harbaugh?

If so, I'll poll fans from other teams all day and prove you wrong on that one, haha.

 

[NINEster]

When Wilson and Carroll retire, the feeling will be mutual. :irishdrinkers:

Wait; are you trying to imply that Wilson and Carroll are hateable to a similar degree as Kaepernick and Harbaugh?

If so, I'll poll fans from other teams all day and prove you wrong on that one, haha.

That's fine with me, would love to see it, even though with Colin Kaepernick you are better served polling only liberal people. We're not going to get a proper "football hate only" polling result on the guy any longer.

Harbaugh was a bit of a prick surely, but Carroll when he wins these close games comes off as more annoying than Harbaugh ever was -- he never got the memo of "act like you've been there before". Just last Thursday night we saw a great example, as soon as that field goal went wide right I knew the very next shot was going to be exactly that of that gleeful jump without fail.

The shirtless stunt with DK Metcalf. :roll:

C'mon, he has plenty of eye rolling behavior neck and neck with Harbaugh. Supposedly Harbaugh lost the 49er locker room in 2014, but apparently Carroll lost it even more based on Wickersham's article -- all the naysayers are gone from the Seahawks. So if players could roll their eyes at Carroll, then people are as well.

Lots of Niner fans loved Harbaugh in the present for the wins but over time have been able to see the other perspective.

For you to even remotely challenge this like it's me "implying" that Charlie Whitehurst is a better QB than Wilson ("are you trying to imply?" LMFAO), goes to show the complete lack of self awareness here of how the Seahawks are viewed on a national level. I've never seen another SB winning QB in my 30 years of watching the game be disliked by his own teammates........

Sure, nobody hates the Seahawks or the aforementioned more than 49er fans, but that doesn't mean Carroll, Wilson don't irk people at all. Nobody really hated Kap outside of Seahawk and Panthers fans back in the day anyway, so that's a massive projection that the entire NFL fanbase disliked him.

 

[Maulbert]

Nobody really hated Kap outside of Seahawk and Panthers fans back in the day anyway, so that's a massive projection that the entire NFL fanbase disliked him.

Did you ever read the 'Why Your Team Sucks' series of articles on Deadspin during the Kaeperdouche era? I assure you, Seattle and Carolina were not the only ones who hated him. Even putting that aside, though, you can't tell me the Packers didn't hate him more than we did. He was 1-7 as a starter vs. Seattle. He was 3-1 vs. the Packers.

 

[Maulbert]

The Rams are going to take a step back next year. The salary cap situation they find themselves in, while having to carry Gurly's contract and pay Goff with a rapidly aging O-Line is going to make for a rough 2019.

McVay got figured out by Fangio, when he realized all the Rams were doing was running playaction pass when you had base personnel, and then would run with Gurley when the D had nickel personal. Teams got the film of that game, and the Rams haven't been the same since. I am over simplifying a bit of course, but it is very true.

Kupp was a big loss as well, and outside of their LT & LG is the best player on their offense. Though the LT will probably retire, and the LG is a UFA. So Kupp might be the best offensive player on the Rams in the not too distant future.


The 49ers are a bigger threat in 2019. Shanny has built a great offense with not a lot at running back or wide receiver. Which I think will be fixed in Free Agency.

They really just need to improve their secondary, and will surely add a blue chip edge rusher with the 2nd pick in the draft.

The 49ers are the real competition in 2019 for the Division.

As a Niners fan. I must say (with all the respect in the world) put the alcohol away and get some sleep.

As a Seahawks fan. I must say (with all respect in the world), how do you not even know your own team?

Seahawks fans know more about the Niners, than Niner fans know about the Niners. :2thumbs:

What it is, is some annoying cuckery going on by some Niner fans that feel that by being super subservient on a Hawks site that their opinions will mean more or they'll be accepted more. It's nonsense and I wish it would stop. There are ways to pump the brakes without it being over the top. You'll never see the same people posting this stuff on their home site, so no reason the analysis should change here. Certainly the Seahawk fans that visit the Zone don't come in talking down or dismissing their team (if anything they're bigger homers).

Fan is short for fanatic which is basically a slightly irrational follower of a team. The only valuable viewpoint from a rival fan's is one that sees things half full, sees things only the real fan could see, etc. Doesn't mean it's right but it's a viewpoint worth taking.

I've seen stuff on .NET over the years from the main forum that would prove true that others didn't foresee around the league.

Likewise, the other duty we are here to fill for each other is to attack perceived weaknesses in other teams. Boy did .NET go off on Kaepernick like he was the worst starting QB in the history of the sport. Some of it was exaggerated, some of it had some basis.

If it wasn't so personal, I could have looked at Wilson a bit more rationally and with less emotion. I still maintain all of my positions on him until proven otherwise, but yeah it is what it is. You listening Maulbert?

And your positions on him have been consistently proven wrong for 7 years, but you still parrot them like a wind-up doll with his string pulled. It is utterly impossible for you to praise him, I think. You'd probably spontaneously combust. And your inability to admit even a little that he might be a top 5 QB is proof that you can't judge football players with even a modicum of impartiality. No self-respecting expert would even compare GQ to Russell Wilson, and yet, you not only do, but claim he's better. This opinion can only be one of two things, pure stupidity, or bias, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you're just being a troll, and not actually that dumb. So, yes, I will continue to call out your bullshit whenever you trot it out for inspection. Good lord, you're on an enemy board. Stop acting like a victim.

 

[Sports Hernia]

As a Niners fan. I must say (with all the respect in the world) put the alcohol away and get some sleep.

As a Seahawks fan. I must say (with all respect in the world), how do you not even know your own team?

Seahawks fans know more about the Niners, than Niner fans know about the Niners. :2thumbs:

What it is, is some annoying cuckery going on by some Niner fans that feel that by being super subservient on a Hawks site that their opinions will mean more or they'll be accepted more. It's nonsense and I wish it would stop. There are ways to pump the brakes without it being over the top. You'll never see the same people posting this stuff on their home site, so no reason the analysis should change here. Certainly the Seahawk fans that visit the Zone don't come in talking down or dismissing their team (if anything they're bigger homers).

Fan is short for fanatic which is basically a slightly irrational follower of a team. The only valuable viewpoint from a rival fan's is one that sees things half full, sees things only the real fan could see, etc. Doesn't mean it's right but it's a viewpoint worth taking.

I've seen stuff on .NET over the years from the main forum that would prove true that others didn't foresee around the league.

Likewise, the other duty we are here to fill for each other is to attack perceived weaknesses in other teams. Boy did .NET go off on Kaepernick like he was the worst starting QB in the history of the sport. Some of it was exaggerated, some of it had some basis.

If it wasn't so personal, I could have looked at Wilson a bit more rationally and with less emotion. I still maintain all of my positions on him until proven otherwise, but yeah it is what it is. You listening Maulbert?

And your positions on him have been consistently proven wrong for 7 years, but you still parrot them like a wind-up doll with his string pulled. It is utterly impossible for you to praise him, I think. You'd probably spontaneously combust. And your inability to admit even a little that he might be a top 5 QB is proof that you can't judge football players with even a modicum of impartiality. No self-respecting expert would even compare GQ to Russell Wilson, and yet, you not only do, but claim he's better. This opinion can only be one of two things, pure stupidity, or bias, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you're just being a troll, and not actually that dumb. So, yes, I will continue to call out your bullshit whenever you trot it out for inspection. Good lord, you're on an enemy board. Stop acting like a victim.

^ Thread winner right there! ^ :2thumbs:

Close the thread.

 

[NINEster]

As a Niners fan. I must say (with all the respect in the world) put the alcohol away and get some sleep.

As a Seahawks fan. I must say (with all respect in the world), how do you not even know your own team?

Seahawks fans know more about the Niners, than Niner fans know about the Niners. :2thumbs:

What it is, is some annoying cuckery going on by some Niner fans that feel that by being super subservient on a Hawks site that their opinions will mean more or they'll be accepted more. It's nonsense and I wish it would stop. There are ways to pump the brakes without it being over the top. You'll never see the same people posting this stuff on their home site, so no reason the analysis should change here. Certainly the Seahawk fans that visit the Zone don't come in talking down or dismissing their team (if anything they're bigger homers).

Fan is short for fanatic which is basically a slightly irrational follower of a team. The only valuable viewpoint from a rival fan's is one that sees things half full, sees things only the real fan could see, etc. Doesn't mean it's right but it's a viewpoint worth taking.

I've seen stuff on .NET over the years from the main forum that would prove true that others didn't foresee around the league.

Likewise, the other duty we are here to fill for each other is to attack perceived weaknesses in other teams. Boy did .NET go off on Kaepernick like he was the worst starting QB in the history of the sport. Some of it was exaggerated, some of it had some basis.

If it wasn't so personal, I could have looked at Wilson a bit more rationally and with less emotion. I still maintain all of my positions on him until proven otherwise, but yeah it is what it is. You listening Maulbert?

And your positions on him have been consistently proven wrong for 7 years, but you still parrot them like a wind-up doll with his string pulled. It is utterly impossible for you to praise him, I think. You'd probably spontaneously combust. And your inability to admit even a little that he might be a top 5 QB is proof that you can't judge football players with even a modicum of impartiality. No self-respecting expert would even compare GQ to Russell Wilson, and yet, you not only do, but claim he's better. This opinion can only be one of two things, pure stupidity, or bias, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you're just being a troll, and not actually that dumb. So, yes, I will continue to call out your bullshit whenever you trot it out for inspection. Good lord, you're on an enemy board. Stop acting like a victim.

Ok, he's top 5 at getting production in the regular season. TD passes, TD/INT ratio, deep ball accuracy, resilience, end of the day he puts up #s that can justify the ranking.

Just not a fan of the way he plays the position. I still feel that he plays the position more dependent on mobility, getting outside of the pocket, broken plays than a top 5 QB typically does. He can throw the deep ball as good as anyone else in the league, which is another extension of above. He's an elite playmaker because he can attack deep from anywhere on the field.

But what happens when you face a defense that can take most of those things away? What happens then? Wilson is a better QB in 2019 than he was in 2013, yet the offensive production in the postseason don't seem to be any better than back then.

This season seems to be a bit different than season's past. I'm more open to a more favorable ranking on him based on this season so far.

Top 5, weeks 1-17.

Not top 5, weeks 18+.

Let's start there.

 

[Maulbert]

As a Seahawks fan. I must say (with all respect in the world), how do you not even know your own team?

Seahawks fans know more about the Niners, than Niner fans know about the Niners. :2thumbs:

What it is, is some annoying cuckery going on by some Niner fans that feel that by being super subservient on a Hawks site that their opinions will mean more or they'll be accepted more. It's nonsense and I wish it would stop. There are ways to pump the brakes without it being over the top. You'll never see the same people posting this stuff on their home site, so no reason the analysis should change here. Certainly the Seahawk fans that visit the Zone don't come in talking down or dismissing their team (if anything they're bigger homers).

Fan is short for fanatic which is basically a slightly irrational follower of a team. The only valuable viewpoint from a rival fan's is one that sees things half full, sees things only the real fan could see, etc. Doesn't mean it's right but it's a viewpoint worth taking.

I've seen stuff on .NET over the years from the main forum that would prove true that others didn't foresee around the league.

Likewise, the other duty we are here to fill for each other is to attack perceived weaknesses in other teams. Boy did .NET go off on Kaepernick like he was the worst starting QB in the history of the sport. Some of it was exaggerated, some of it had some basis.

If it wasn't so personal, I could have looked at Wilson a bit more rationally and with less emotion. I still maintain all of my positions on him until proven otherwise, but yeah it is what it is. You listening Maulbert?

And your positions on him have been consistently proven wrong for 7 years, but you still parrot them like a wind-up doll with his string pulled. It is utterly impossible for you to praise him, I think. You'd probably spontaneously combust. And your inability to admit even a little that he might be a top 5 QB is proof that you can't judge football players with even a modicum of impartiality. No self-respecting expert would even compare GQ to Russell Wilson, and yet, you not only do, but claim he's better. This opinion can only be one of two things, pure stupidity, or bias, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you're just being a troll, and not actually that dumb. So, yes, I will continue to call out your bullshit whenever you trot it out for inspection. Good lord, you're on an enemy board. Stop acting like a victim.

Ok, he's top 5 at getting production in the regular season. TD passes, TD/INT ratio, deep ball accuracy, resilience, end of the day he puts up #s that can justify the ranking.

Just not a fan of the way he plays the position. I still feel that he plays the position more dependent on mobility, getting outside of the pocket, broken plays than a top 5 QB typically does. He can throw the deep ball as good as anyone else in the league, which is another extension of above. He's an elite playmaker because he can attack deep from anywhere on the field.

But what happens when you face a defense that can take most of those things away? What happens then? Wilson is a better QB in 2019 than he was in 2013, yet the offensive production in the postseason don't seem to be any better than back then.

This season seems to be a bit different than season's past. I'm more open to a more favorable ranking on him based on this season so far.

Top 5, weeks 1-17.

Not top 5, weeks 18+.

Let's start there.

I'll give you credit that you at least stated it as opinion, however, as far as Wilson not performing in the playoffs, that's just inaccurate. I won't deny the goal line int wasn't devastating, but his career playoff passer rating is 94.9. While that is 6 points lower than his regular season average, it's higher than the playoff passer rating of Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Brett Favre, or Steve Young (whose passer rating dips 10+ points during the postseason). Not to mention, he has an 8-5 postseason record. You're basing that opinion on one play. Remember, while he played awful in the first 55 minutes vs. Green Bay, Seattle would not have won their 3rd NFC Championship without his play in overtime. He has an ability to shrug off mistakes when a lot would just fold and wallow in their failure (See: Cam Newton). Also, just as an interesting tidbit, Jared Goff's passer rating dips almost 20 points in the postseason, from 92.9 to 73.6.