Mariners OFF-season thread

[Hasselbeck]

But if we're handing out indictments on the Jack Z regime, it isn't philosophy, it's his failure at drafting and development, two things he was suppose to be a genius at.

It's really two fold IMO.. they drafted terribly yes, but they also made some very weird trades and overpaid incredibly in FA. When you greatly miss in those areas, you find yourself in baseball purgatory.. where you're not quite awful enough to reload with prospects like a Houston or KC did .. and you're not good enough to contend. You're consistently in that 75-80 win area and thats a bad place to be in MLB. It's like being the constant 5-8 seed in the Eastern Conference of the NBA.

To truly fix this they're going to have to start selling off assets in the coming years, something that will be hard to do without ownership willing to bite the bullet on some salary (Felix, Cano, etc)

 

[Sgt. Largent]

But if we're handing out indictments on the Jack Z regime, it isn't philosophy, it's his failure at drafting and development, two things he was suppose to be a genius at.

It's really two fold IMO.. they drafted terribly yes, but they also made some very weird trades and overpaid incredibly in FA. When you greatly miss in those areas, you find yourself in baseball purgatory.. where you're not quite awful enough to reload with prospects like a Houston or KC did .. and you're not good enough to contend. You're consistently in that 75-80 win area and thats a bad place to be in MLB. It's like being the constant 5-8 seed in the Eastern Conference of the NBA.

To truly fix this they're going to have to start selling off assets in the coming years, something that will be hard to do without ownership willing to bite the bullet on some salary (Felix, Cano, etc)

I disagree with the overpaid. Our two best offensive players we acquired in FA, and someone would have paid Cano and Cruz what we paid them, or close.

Yes KC did it the right way, but you have to be patient and wait it out for the 5-10 years it takes for the players you draft and acquire to hit the majors. Jack Z had his 7 years, and produced garbage.

I'm OK with having a bigger payroll so we can supplement our farm system players with FA's in order to round out the roster.

But again, the failure of the Jack Z regime was not the FA's, that's money that he was given to spend..........and for the most part it worked with Cano, Cruz, etc. The failure was not drafting and developing around these guys in order to compete. Too many draft busts, too many managerial changes, too many key injuries to key prospects (Hultzen, Paxton can't stay healthy).

 

[Hasselbeck]

But if we're handing out indictments on the Jack Z regime, it isn't philosophy, it's his failure at drafting and development, two things he was suppose to be a genius at.

It's really two fold IMO.. they drafted terribly yes, but they also made some very weird trades and overpaid incredibly in FA. When you greatly miss in those areas, you find yourself in baseball purgatory.. where you're not quite awful enough to reload with prospects like a Houston or KC did .. and you're not good enough to contend. You're consistently in that 75-80 win area and thats a bad place to be in MLB. It's like being the constant 5-8 seed in the Eastern Conference of the NBA.

To truly fix this they're going to have to start selling off assets in the coming years, something that will be hard to do without ownership willing to bite the bullet on some salary (Felix, Cano, etc)

I disagree with the overpaid. Our two best offensive players we acquired in FA, and someone would have paid Cano and Cruz what we paid them, or close.

Yes KC did it the right way, but you have to be patient and wait it out for the 5-10 years it takes for the players you draft and acquire to hit the majors. Jack Z had his 7 years, and produced garbage.

I'm OK with having a bigger payroll so we can supplement our farm system players with FA's in order to round out the roster.

But again, the failure of the Jack Z regime was not the FA's, that's money that he was given to spend..........and for the most part it worked with Cano, Cruz, etc. The failure was not drafting and developing around these guys in order to compete. Too many draft busts, too many managerial changes, too many key injuries to key prospects (Hultzen, Paxton can't stay healthy).

I think for the most part we agree.. but disagree about Cruz and Cano. Do you think the Mariners would have been that much worse without Cano?

Cruz paid off for a year sure.. but there is 3 years left on that deal and he'll be 36 in July.

Cano's deal is even worse. He's already showing signs of regression and you have him for 8 more years at 24M a year.

I mean they're the Mariners so they will have to overpay to get these guys away from the Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers of the world.. but like I said.. committing this type of salary to aging vets + whiffing on drafting and midseason trades to try and get over that .500 bump is what will perpetually leave the Mariners in the world of mediocrity.

 

[dumbrabbit]

But if we're handing out indictments on the Jack Z regime, it isn't philosophy, it's his failure at drafting and development, two things he was suppose to be a genius at.

It's really two fold IMO.. they drafted terribly yes, but they also made some very weird trades and overpaid incredibly in FA. When you greatly miss in those areas, you find yourself in baseball purgatory.. where you're not quite awful enough to reload with prospects like a Houston or KC did .. and you're not good enough to contend. You're consistently in that 75-80 win area and thats a bad place to be in MLB. It's like being the constant 5-8 seed in the Eastern Conference of the NBA.

To truly fix this they're going to have to start selling off assets in the coming years, something that will be hard to do without ownership willing to bite the bullet on some salary (Felix, Cano, etc)

I disagree with the overpaid. Our two best offensive players we acquired in FA, and someone would have paid Cano and Cruz what we paid them, or close.

Yes KC did it the right way, but you have to be patient and wait it out for the 5-10 years it takes for the players you draft and acquire to hit the majors. Jack Z had his 7 years, and produced garbage.

I'm OK with having a bigger payroll so we can supplement our farm system players with FA's in order to round out the roster.

But again, the failure of the Jack Z regime was not the FA's, that's money that he was given to spend..........and for the most part it worked with Cano, Cruz, etc. The failure was not drafting and developing around these guys in order to compete. Too many draft busts, too many managerial changes, too many key injuries to key prospects (Hultzen, Paxton can't stay healthy).

I think for the most part we agree.. but disagree about Cruz and Cano. Do you think the Mariners would have been that much worse without Cano?

Cruz paid off for a year sure.. but there is 3 years left on that deal and he'll be 36 in July.

Cano's deal is even worse. He's already showing signs of regression and you have him for 8 more years at 24M a year.

I mean they're the Mariners so they will have to overpay to get these guys away from the Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers of the world.. but like I said.. committing this type of salary to aging vets + whiffing on drafting and midseason trades to try and get over that .500 bump is what will perpetually leave the Mariners in the world of mediocrity.

36 years is the end of the peak of a player's career, so I'm cool with his contract. Cruz doesn't have a Cano-type of contract, which is nice. Dipoto's job is made easier with Cano, Cruz, Felix and Kyle locked up. These guys need a young manager with heart and energy to motivate them, and the M's will become a winning team, especially with Edgar returning next season.

 

[Crizilla]

nice

2 sub .250 hitters gone

C ya later NoMo and bad Miller!

 

[Hawk-Lock]

nice

2 sub .250 hitters gone

C ya later NoMo and bad Miller!

On top of that we got a pretty solid starting pitcher in return. Starting pitching is something this team had to address. After Felix and Iwakuma we didn't have much.

 

[mbtitleist]

nice

2 sub .250 hitters gone

C ya later NoMo and bad Miller!

And a relief pitcher who had a 5+ ERA, almost double of what it was the year before.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

Karns is the main piece. He will solidify the back end of the rotation. We never really found a replacement for Chris Young. Hopefully he is it.

 

[bevellisthedevil]

I don't really care who we got in return for Miller, couldn't stand watching him kill rally after rally.

 

[m0ng0]

Boog Powell? Isn't be in the hall of fame already?

 

[jkitsune]

For all the bashing Miller takes on here, some of it deserved, he has a chance to become the next Mariner to blossom once he's out of Seattle. I won't spend too much time mourning a player who just finished having a mediocre overall season, but at one point mid-season he was one of the most valuable shortstops in the game, playing excellent defense, with an above-average bat at the position. He wasn't able to maintain it or put it all together, but the tools are there for Miller to be an excellent player.

Karns seems like a good pickup. The other two may or may not ever contribute significantly, but then, LoMo wasn't going to either, and Farquhar may well be done.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Dipoto said we need to get more athletic in the outfield.



Nailed it.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Dipoto said we need to get more athletic in the outfield.



Nailed it.

I get this Sarge. Nice.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Dipoto said we need to get more athletic in the outfield.



Nailed it.

Still slimmer than Bartolo Colon. 8)

 

[CurryStopstheRuns]

Death to flying things for another year.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Gutierrez got a one year after surprisingly staying healthy last year. 4th outfielder I'd imagine.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

We just traded for Joaquin Benoit. He is one of the better relievers in the game, but he is 38. I believe he is only signed through 2016 at about 8 mill a year so not much of a risky deal there. I'm okay with this move, bullpen needed help.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

We just traded for Joaquin Benoit. He is one of the better relievers in the game, but he is 38. I believe he is only signed through 2016 at about 8 mill a year so not much of a risky deal there. I'm okay with this move, bullpen needed help.

Dipoto definitely working on that below avg bullpen.

 

[Trenchbroom]

Leonys Martin for Wilhelmsen, maybe more to this trade. At the very least: adios, Bartender:

http://www.inquisitr.com/2570789/se...riners-acquire-outfielder-from-texas-rangers/

 

[Tical21]

I dunno, I was liking the bartender last year, and I kind of gave up on Martin ever being able to hit. I was really intrigued by him a couple of years ago, but I think our bullpen got weaker today and I don't know that Martin will be on the big league roster after the all-start break.