Mariners OFF-season thread

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jkitsune

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The rumor on twitter right now is that we might be getting Lind for two low-level prospects who are not on the 40-man roster. Lind is only here for 1 year (unless re-signed) and is generally a 1-2 WAR player at 1b, so would be a bit silly to give up DJ Peterson in a trade like that.
 

Hawk-Lock

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Done deal. We got Lind for 3 low level prospects. I like this move as he is only under contract for one year and we didn't give up much.
 

Uncle Si

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Hawk-Lock":33ipbos2 said:
Done deal. We got Lind for 3 low level prospects. I like this move as he is only under contract for one year and we didn't give up much.


Thats some good work by the new GM
 

kearly

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Seeing all these trades is fun. Reminds me a bit of the 2010 Seahawks offseason.

I liked the Aoki signing. It's a classic 'Honda civic' type move that Pat Gillick used to make all the time, a low cost vet that isn't going to headline, but will quietly add good value to the bottom line. It also gets Cruz out of right field.

Parting ways with Trumbo made sense, at least if you buy into the value of defense. Trumbo had a good bat last season but he posted only a net WAR of 0.2 as a Mariner last year, with almost all of his offense being cancelled out by bad defense. If he repeated that performance in 2016, it would not be a good way to spend $9 million.

By contrast, the Mariners acquired Adam Lind basically for a bag of Doritos, and Adam Lind is a much better fit for Dipoto's Mariners AND costs less money ($8 million in 2016). Yes, he's probably a rental player, but if he has a great year it could net Seattle an extra draft pick or maybe get trade deadline consideration. This was a pretty bad trade by Milwaukie to give up a 2 WAR player making only $8 million.

Lind is a very consistent player at the plate, decently comparable to Kyle Seager if Seager had less pop and drew more walks. Lind's defense is his weak point, but even with bad defense he's still a good bet for 2 WAR. Lind has been worth a combined 7 WAR the past 3 seasons and was worth 3.1 WAR last year, thanks to his defense being better. Lind also bats left and his gap power is a good fit for Safeco. At 32, he still figures to have at least 1 prime year left. It's only a 1 year solution most likely but regardless this was a very nice pickup for Seattle to address a need at 1B. It reminds me a bit of the Raul Ibanez signing in 2004.

I'm not all that high on the Ianetta signing, he was awful last year, but so were all our other catchers and Ianetta has been good in the past. Hard to complain about the pricetag though (1 year, $4.25m). Like most GMs, Dipoto has a bias towards his former players at previous jobs. Ianetta was Dipoto's handpicked catcher in Anaheim.

Joaquin Benoit was a nice pickup. I always love it when my team is on the receiving end of a fire sale trade. Unfortunately, the bullpen might not be able to hand leads to Benoit in the ninth as much anymore with Dipoto dealing our three best setup men.

I have mixed feelings on the Leonys Martin trade. For starters, he's a defense guy with a bad bat, who used to have a good bat. In other words, he's basically the CF equivalent of Brendan Ryan. Brendan Ryan's bat actually got worse in Seattle, and though he was probably the best defensive shortstop in the game, nobody missed him when the Mariners eventually kicked his ass to the curb. Like Ryan, Martin presents decent bang for the buck ($4.75m in 2016 for a guy that was a 1 WAR player isn't terrible). This trade is also a bit like the Austin Jackson trade in the sense that Jackson was a buy low guy who could maybe bounce back.

But I just can't help but think that Martin probably won't bounce back and we'll probably hate seeing him in the lineup every day. There's a reason a division rival was willing to trade him to us despite his past history of being a 4.6 WAR player as recently as 2014.

I'm okay with losing James Jones, he's a career AAA player IMO. But losing Wilhelmsen hurts especially after he turned things around last season. So while the trade has a chance to work out nicely, I think the odds are that Seattle cuts Martin after one unpleasant season and we'll miss Wilhelmsen. IMO, it was too much to give up for Brendan Ryan, the OF.

Seattle gave up a lot to get Nathan Karns but I think it's an okay trade. I think Tampa won the trade more than Seattle, but I think Seattle will get more out of Karns than they would have out of the players they gave up since they didn't fit Dipoto's model. Karns is an excellent strikeout pitcher with high walks and a slightly above average FIP. He's basically a better version of 2014 Roenis Elias. Seattle also got a high OBP CF in Powell that might reach the majors at some point. Overall it was a solid trade.

My least favorite transaction was the Elias / Smith swap for Wade Miley and a AAA reliever. Miley is better than Elias, but not by much. The part that sucks is that Elias isn't even the best player Seattle gave up. Carson Smith is one of the best setup pitchers in the game. Last season he nearly matched Miley's WAR despite having less than half as many innings.

Miley has hidden value in that he's both consistent and durable, and his financial cost is fair (2y/$15m) but he's not worth Carson Smith. Seattle would have been better this season with Smith and Elias than with Miley, and would have saved money to boot. Sounds like Miley was drafted by the Dbacks when Dipoto was there, so this move smacks of Dipoto overvaluing his own players and undervaluing Jack Z's players.

Dipoto also let Iwakuma walk for a reasonable amount of money. He's probably scared of the history of Japanese pitchers having an early decline, but not keeping Iwakuma flies in the face of all the other "win now" moves he's been making.

Overall, the offseason has been a mixed bag. While many of the moves are smart, the overall amalgamation of these moves has made the roster older and only just barely better. If Dipoto wants to go 'win now' mode then fine, but then why hurt the team by trading Carson Smith and letting Iwakuma walk? Hopefully there is something big up his sleeve yet to come, because right now the Mariners probably still need to add 5 more wins to their team to have a realistic opportunity at the playoffs.
 

Rob12

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dumbrabbit":3rahgv44 said:
425HawkSpark":3rahgv44 said:
Rob12":3rahgv44 said:
Didn't like the trade with Boston. Elias seems like a younger version of Miley. Maybe I am wrong there. Miley is durable, and logs a lot of innings. I don't care too much about Carson Smith. I mean yes, it sucks that we lost our best reliever, but relievers are volatile, and change heavily from year to year. But Smith looks like a guy that could be very good for years to come. We'll see. It might be alright.

Looks like the M's are closing in on Adam Lind. I wonder what the price is? DJ Peterson? I sure hope not.

Dipoto literally can't sit still. He has no problem emptying out our system, and I love that he goes after guys that simply get on base.
I hear Zunino for Lind... I don't wanna give up DJ or mike. Rather get a FA Napoli.

I would be happy giving up Peterson for Lind. 3B is pretty much locked up for the next several years, and Peterson has injury issues. I would rather Dipoto draft his own guys and use Jack Z's prospects as bait.

I do NOT want to give up Zunino. He is the M's future at catcher. I could be willing to move Jackson, but only for the right price.

Peterson played 1B in Tacoma and projects there at the MLB level. He's been a disappointment and didn't have a great showing in the AFL, either. He needs to have a great bounce back year.

Three low level, 19 year old pitchers to the Brewers for Lind. I'll take it. Now we just have to figure out who his platoon partner will be. I wouldn't mind if Montero was given every opportunity to make the team out of ST to platoon with Lind, but I don't think Jerry can stomach his defense.
 
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Sports Hernia

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kearly":30t5mq3x said:
Seeing all these trades is fun. Reminds me a bit of the 2010 Seahawks offseason.

I liked the Aoki signing. It's a classic 'Honda civic' type move that Pat Gillick used to make all the time, a low cost vet that isn't going to headline, but will quietly add good value to the bottom line. It also gets Cruz out of right field.

Parting ways with Trumbo made sense, at least if you buy into the value of defense. Trumbo had a good bat last season but he posted only a net WAR of 0.2 as a Mariner last year, with almost all of his offense being cancelled out by bad defense. If he repeated that performance in 2016, it would not be a good way to spend $9 million.

By contrast, the Mariners acquired Adam Lind basically for a bag of Doritos, and Adam Lind is a much better fit for Dipoto's Mariners AND costs less money ($8 million in 2016). Yes, he's probably a rental player, but if he has a great year it could net Seattle an extra draft pick or maybe get trade deadline consideration. This was a pretty bad trade by Milwaukie to give up a 2 WAR player making only $8 million.

Lind is a very consistent player at the plate, decently comparable to Kyle Seager if Seager had less pop and drew more walks. Lind's defense is his weak point, but even with bad defense he's still a good bet for 2 WAR. Lind has been worth a combined 7 WAR the past 3 seasons and was worth 3.1 WAR last year, thanks to his defense being better. Lind also bats left and his gap power is a good fit for Safeco. At 32, he still figures to have at least 1 prime year left. It's only a 1 year solution most likely but regardless this was a very nice pickup for Seattle to address a need at 1B. It reminds me a bit of the Raul Ibanez signing in 2004.

I'm not all that high on the Ianetta signing, he was awful last year, but so were all our other catchers and Ianetta has been good in the past. Hard to complain about the pricetag though (1 year, $4.25m). Like most GMs, Dipoto has a bias towards his former players at previous jobs. Ianetta was Dipoto's handpicked catcher in Anaheim.

Joaquin Benoit was a nice pickup. I always love it when my team is on the receiving end of a fire sale trade. Unfortunately, the bullpen might not be able to hand leads to Benoit in the ninth as much anymore with Dipoto dealing our three best setup men.

I have mixed feelings on the Leonys Martin trade. For starters, he's a defense guy with a bad bat, who used to have a good bat. In other words, he's basically the CF equivalent of Brendan Ryan. Brendan Ryan's bat actually got worse in Seattle, and though he was probably the best defensive shortstop in the game, nobody missed him when the Mariners eventually kicked his ass to the curb. Like Ryan, Martin presents decent bang for the buck ($4.75m in 2016 for a guy that was a 1 WAR player isn't terrible). This trade is also a bit like the Austin Jackson trade in the sense that Jackson was a buy low guy who could maybe bounce back.

But I just can't help but think that Martin probably won't bounce back and we'll probably hate seeing him in the lineup every day. There's a reason a division rival was willing to trade him to us despite his past history of being a 4.6 WAR player as recently as 2014.

I'm okay with losing James Jones, he's a career AAA player IMO. But losing Wilhelmsen hurts especially after he turned things around last season. So while the trade has a chance to work out nicely, I think the odds are that Seattle cuts Martin after one unpleasant season and we'll miss Wilhelmsen. IMO, it was too much to give up for Brendan Ryan, the OF.

Seattle gave up a lot to get Nathan Karns but I think it's an okay trade. I think Tampa won the trade more than Seattle, but I think Seattle will get more out of Karns than they would have out of the players they gave up since they didn't fit Dipoto's model. Karns is an excellent strikeout pitcher with high walks and a slightly above average FIP. He's basically a better version of 2014 Roenis Elias. Seattle also got a high OBP CF in Powell that might reach the majors at some point. Overall it was a solid trade.

My least favorite transaction was the Elias / Smith swap for Wade Miley and a AAA reliever. Miley is better than Elias, but not by much. The part that sucks is that Elias isn't even the best player Seattle gave up. Carson Smith is one of the best setup pitchers in the game. Last season he nearly matched Miley's WAR despite having less than half as many innings.

Miley has hidden value in that he's both consistent and durable, and his financial cost is fair (2y/$15m) but he's not worth Carson Smith. Seattle would have been better this season with Smith and Elias than with Miley, and would have saved money to boot. Sounds like Miley was drafted by the Dbacks when Dipoto was there, so this move smacks of Dipoto overvaluing his own players and undervaluing Jack Z's players.

Dipoto also let Iwakuma walk for a reasonable amount of money. He's probably scared of the history of Japanese pitchers having an early decline, but not keeping Iwakuma flies in the face of all the other "win now" moves he's been making.

Overall, the offseason has been a mixed bag. While many of the moves are smart, the overall amalgamation of these moves has made the roster older and only just barely better. If Dipoto wants to go 'win now' mode then fine, but then why hurt the team by trading Carson Smith and letting Iwakuma walk? Hopefully there is something big up his sleeve yet to come, because right now the Mariners probably still need to add 5 more wins to their team to have a realistic opportunity at the playoffs.

Nice write up Kip. I like the moves overall so far, now will to translate to wins???? Who knows. I like the fact he is clearing out a lot of deadwood and going with his guys.
 

Tical21

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kearly":3erunz9a said:
Seeing all these trades is fun. Reminds me a bit of the 2010 Seahawks offseason.

I liked the Aoki signing. It's a classic 'Honda civic' type move that Pat Gillick used to make all the time, a low cost vet that isn't going to headline, but will quietly add good value to the bottom line. It also gets Cruz out of right field.

Parting ways with Trumbo made sense, at least if you buy into the value of defense. Trumbo had a good bat last season but he posted only a net WAR of 0.2 as a Mariner last year, with almost all of his offense being cancelled out by bad defense. If he repeated that performance in 2016, it would not be a good way to spend $9 million.

By contrast, the Mariners acquired Adam Lind basically for a bag of Doritos, and Adam Lind is a much better fit for Dipoto's Mariners AND costs less money ($8 million in 2016). Yes, he's probably a rental player, but if he has a great year it could net Seattle an extra draft pick or maybe get trade deadline consideration. This was a pretty bad trade by Milwaukie to give up a 2 WAR player making only $8 million.

Lind is a very consistent player at the plate, decently comparable to Kyle Seager if Seager had less pop and drew more walks. Lind's defense is his weak point, but even with bad defense he's still a good bet for 2 WAR. Lind has been worth a combined 7 WAR the past 3 seasons and was worth 3.1 WAR last year, thanks to his defense being better. Lind also bats left and his gap power is a good fit for Safeco. At 32, he still figures to have at least 1 prime year left. It's only a 1 year solution most likely but regardless this was a very nice pickup for Seattle to address a need at 1B. It reminds me a bit of the Raul Ibanez signing in 2004.

I'm not all that high on the Ianetta signing, he was awful last year, but so were all our other catchers and Ianetta has been good in the past. Hard to complain about the pricetag though (1 year, $4.25m). Like most GMs, Dipoto has a bias towards his former players at previous jobs. Ianetta was Dipoto's handpicked catcher in Anaheim.

Joaquin Benoit was a nice pickup. I always love it when my team is on the receiving end of a fire sale trade. Unfortunately, the bullpen might not be able to hand leads to Benoit in the ninth as much anymore with Dipoto dealing our three best setup men.

I have mixed feelings on the Leonys Martin trade. For starters, he's a defense guy with a bad bat, who used to have a good bat. In other words, he's basically the CF equivalent of Brendan Ryan. Brendan Ryan's bat actually got worse in Seattle, and though he was probably the best defensive shortstop in the game, nobody missed him when the Mariners eventually kicked his ass to the curb. Like Ryan, Martin presents decent bang for the buck ($4.75m in 2016 for a guy that was a 1 WAR player isn't terrible). This trade is also a bit like the Austin Jackson trade in the sense that Jackson was a buy low guy who could maybe bounce back.

But I just can't help but think that Martin probably won't bounce back and we'll probably hate seeing him in the lineup every day. There's a reason a division rival was willing to trade him to us despite his past history of being a 4.6 WAR player as recently as 2014.

I'm okay with losing James Jones, he's a career AAA player IMO. But losing Wilhelmsen hurts especially after he turned things around last season. So while the trade has a chance to work out nicely, I think the odds are that Seattle cuts Martin after one unpleasant season and we'll miss Wilhelmsen. IMO, it was too much to give up for Brendan Ryan, the OF.

Seattle gave up a lot to get Nathan Karns but I think it's an okay trade. I think Tampa won the trade more than Seattle, but I think Seattle will get more out of Karns than they would have out of the players they gave up since they didn't fit Dipoto's model. Karns is an excellent strikeout pitcher with high walks and a slightly above average FIP. He's basically a better version of 2014 Roenis Elias. Seattle also got a high OBP CF in Powell that might reach the majors at some point. Overall it was a solid trade.

My least favorite transaction was the Elias / Smith swap for Wade Miley and a AAA reliever. Miley is better than Elias, but not by much. The part that sucks is that Elias isn't even the best player Seattle gave up. Carson Smith is one of the best setup pitchers in the game. Last season he nearly matched Miley's WAR despite having less than half as many innings.

Miley has hidden value in that he's both consistent and durable, and his financial cost is fair (2y/$15m) but he's not worth Carson Smith. Seattle would have been better this season with Smith and Elias than with Miley, and would have saved money to boot. Sounds like Miley was drafted by the Dbacks when Dipoto was there, so this move smacks of Dipoto overvaluing his own players and undervaluing Jack Z's players.

Dipoto also let Iwakuma walk for a reasonable amount of money. He's probably scared of the history of Japanese pitchers having an early decline, but not keeping Iwakuma flies in the face of all the other "win now" moves he's been making.

Overall, the offseason has been a mixed bag. While many of the moves are smart, the overall amalgamation of these moves has made the roster older and only just barely better. If Dipoto wants to go 'win now' mode then fine, but then why hurt the team by trading Carson Smith and letting Iwakuma walk? Hopefully there is something big up his sleeve yet to come, because right now the Mariners probably still need to add 5 more wins to their team to have a realistic opportunity at the playoffs.
Bo knows hockey?


I really wanted Dipoto to go as young as possible and go all Houston Astros on us, but I'm sure the front office gave him firm instructions to try and win now, which IMO is going to cost him his job, unless he can draft ridiculously well and we get really lucky on some kids that currently aren't projected to amount to much.

At the very least, I think it is a good thing that we got rid of a bunch of guys that "definitely" aren't any good and got a bunch of players that only "probably" aren't any good.

I think we are bad, overpriced, and old, and just got rid of some promising teenaged pitchers to try to make us not as bad. I was listening to the MLB network the other day and I couldn't make out who, but somebody said we had the worst minor league system of any team in 25 years.
 

Uncle Si

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Tical21":2h8gvg39 said:
kearly":2h8gvg39 said:
Seeing all these trades is fun. Reminds me a bit of the 2010 Seahawks offseason.

I liked the Aoki signing. It's a classic 'Honda civic' type move that Pat Gillick used to make all the time, a low cost vet that isn't going to headline, but will quietly add good value to the bottom line. It also gets Cruz out of right field.

Parting ways with Trumbo made sense, at least if you buy into the value of defense. Trumbo had a good bat last season but he posted only a net WAR of 0.2 as a Mariner last year, with almost all of his offense being cancelled out by bad defense. If he repeated that performance in 2016, it would not be a good way to spend $9 million.

By contrast, the Mariners acquired Adam Lind basically for a bag of Doritos, and Adam Lind is a much better fit for Dipoto's Mariners AND costs less money ($8 million in 2016). Yes, he's probably a rental player, but if he has a great year it could net Seattle an extra draft pick or maybe get trade deadline consideration. This was a pretty bad trade by Milwaukie to give up a 2 WAR player making only $8 million.

Lind is a very consistent player at the plate, decently comparable to Kyle Seager if Seager had less pop and drew more walks. Lind's defense is his weak point, but even with bad defense he's still a good bet for 2 WAR. Lind has been worth a combined 7 WAR the past 3 seasons and was worth 3.1 WAR last year, thanks to his defense being better. Lind also bats left and his gap power is a good fit for Safeco. At 32, he still figures to have at least 1 prime year left. It's only a 1 year solution most likely but regardless this was a very nice pickup for Seattle to address a need at 1B. It reminds me a bit of the Raul Ibanez signing in 2004.

I'm not all that high on the Ianetta signing, he was awful last year, but so were all our other catchers and Ianetta has been good in the past. Hard to complain about the pricetag though (1 year, $4.25m). Like most GMs, Dipoto has a bias towards his former players at previous jobs. Ianetta was Dipoto's handpicked catcher in Anaheim.

Joaquin Benoit was a nice pickup. I always love it when my team is on the receiving end of a fire sale trade. Unfortunately, the bullpen might not be able to hand leads to Benoit in the ninth as much anymore with Dipoto dealing our three best setup men.

I have mixed feelings on the Leonys Martin trade. For starters, he's a defense guy with a bad bat, who used to have a good bat. In other words, he's basically the CF equivalent of Brendan Ryan. Brendan Ryan's bat actually got worse in Seattle, and though he was probably the best defensive shortstop in the game, nobody missed him when the Mariners eventually kicked his ass to the curb. Like Ryan, Martin presents decent bang for the buck ($4.75m in 2016 for a guy that was a 1 WAR player isn't terrible). This trade is also a bit like the Austin Jackson trade in the sense that Jackson was a buy low guy who could maybe bounce back.

But I just can't help but think that Martin probably won't bounce back and we'll probably hate seeing him in the lineup every day. There's a reason a division rival was willing to trade him to us despite his past history of being a 4.6 WAR player as recently as 2014.

I'm okay with losing James Jones, he's a career AAA player IMO. But losing Wilhelmsen hurts especially after he turned things around last season. So while the trade has a chance to work out nicely, I think the odds are that Seattle cuts Martin after one unpleasant season and we'll miss Wilhelmsen. IMO, it was too much to give up for Brendan Ryan, the OF.

Seattle gave up a lot to get Nathan Karns but I think it's an okay trade. I think Tampa won the trade more than Seattle, but I think Seattle will get more out of Karns than they would have out of the players they gave up since they didn't fit Dipoto's model. Karns is an excellent strikeout pitcher with high walks and a slightly above average FIP. He's basically a better version of 2014 Roenis Elias. Seattle also got a high OBP CF in Powell that might reach the majors at some point. Overall it was a solid trade.

My least favorite transaction was the Elias / Smith swap for Wade Miley and a AAA reliever. Miley is better than Elias, but not by much. The part that sucks is that Elias isn't even the best player Seattle gave up. Carson Smith is one of the best setup pitchers in the game. Last season he nearly matched Miley's WAR despite having less than half as many innings.

Miley has hidden value in that he's both consistent and durable, and his financial cost is fair (2y/$15m) but he's not worth Carson Smith. Seattle would have been better this season with Smith and Elias than with Miley, and would have saved money to boot. Sounds like Miley was drafted by the Dbacks when Dipoto was there, so this move smacks of Dipoto overvaluing his own players and undervaluing Jack Z's players.

Dipoto also let Iwakuma walk for a reasonable amount of money. He's probably scared of the history of Japanese pitchers having an early decline, but not keeping Iwakuma flies in the face of all the other "win now" moves he's been making.

Overall, the offseason has been a mixed bag. While many of the moves are smart, the overall amalgamation of these moves has made the roster older and only just barely better. If Dipoto wants to go 'win now' mode then fine, but then why hurt the team by trading Carson Smith and letting Iwakuma walk? Hopefully there is something big up his sleeve yet to come, because right now the Mariners probably still need to add 5 more wins to their team to have a realistic opportunity at the playoffs.
Bo knows hockey?


I really wanted Dipoto to go as young as possible and go all Houston Astros on us, but I'm sure the front office gave him firm instructions to try and win now, which IMO is going to cost him his job, unless he can draft ridiculously well and we get really lucky on some kids that currently aren't projected to amount to much.

At the very least, I think it is a good thing that we got rid of a bunch of guys that "definitely" aren't any good and got a bunch of players that only "probably" aren't any good.

I think we are bad, overpriced, and old, and just got rid of some promising teenaged pitchers to try to make us not as bad. I was listening to the MLB network the other day and I couldn't make out who, but somebody said we had the worst minor league system of any team in 25 years.

we were projected to win 90+ games last year... and have arguably gotten better. I guess the question will be whether last year was an anomaly of the talent we have, or we are you say.
 

IndyHawk

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Nice write up Kearly and Ticals 2 bits.I didn't realize you both are M's fans but I like that.
 

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Hasselbeck":28jo6jiv said:
Sgt. Largent":28jo6jiv said:
No one thinks 10 year contracts are a good idea, but when you're the Seattle Mariners and you've stunk the past 10-12 years, it's the only way a player of Cano's skill is going to sign with you.

So I get it, and I was OK with the signing, still am. Cano just needs a manager that knows how to motivate him.......cause Lloyd obviously wasn't doing it.

I agree that a team like the Mariners has to overpay for talent, but a past your prime 2B that feasted in a hitter friendly park? To lock him up until age 42?

Honestly trading him back to NY wouldn't be a bad thing.. they're the one team that could eat that contract. Only problem is they would want you to take back an equally s**t contract in Ellsbury.

Look at the contenders right now though in MLB.. KC was largely built from within with a few key players acquired via FA and trade. Houston is entirely from prospects and a dusting of FA/trade acquired talent. The Mets are primarily prospects. The Cubs. And on and on. Then the flip side you have the Dodgers, Red Sox, Yankees, Angels .. all the teams that have depleted farms and high payrolls. None of them have really won anything lately, save for a fluky title run by the Red Sox.. ironically fueled in large part due to a massive salary dump.

The M's continue to be in baseball no mans land with some really horrendous contracts to aging vets and a very very iffy farm. They are almost better off bottoming out for a few years just to rack up high draft picks and sell off whatever decent veteran talent they have for prospects. It's kind of a terrible way to present it to your fans though.. the notion that "hey we're probably going to lose 100 games for the next couple of years, but keep on coming out!" .. but over the long haul I think it's the only way the M's ever become relevant.

There's not a team in baseball that would trade for Robinson Cano.

Not a one.

The one and only way is if the Mariners would be willing to pay at least half his remaining salary, which is $96M. That's a lot of cash to pay for a team that is a middle of the pack on player payroll. A team would have to be pretty desperate to take on nearly $100M in salary for a very good, but probably no longer elite player who is getting older, has saw his power drop, and by most defensive metrics is now a below average second baseman defensively. Cano is not a very good asset to have right now, unless the injuries were real last season. I wouldn't put a bounce back season past him at all, to the tune of 4-5 WAR. Last season's 118 OPS+ was solid considering how he started out. All we can hope is that he ages extremely gracefully while probably being moved to 1B in the next couple of years. But that contract, man. That contract is looking worse by the day.
 

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Hasselbeck":1ku2anh1 said:
Sgt. Largent":1ku2anh1 said:
No one thinks 10 year contracts are a good idea, but when you're the Seattle Mariners and you've stunk the past 10-12 years, it's the only way a player of Cano's skill is going to sign with you.

So I get it, and I was OK with the signing, still am. Cano just needs a manager that knows how to motivate him.......cause Lloyd obviously wasn't doing it.

I agree that a team like the Mariners has to overpay for talent, but a past your prime 2B that feasted in a hitter friendly park? To lock him up until age 42?

Honestly trading him back to NY wouldn't be a bad thing.. they're the one team that could eat that contract. Only problem is they would want you to take back an equally s**t contract in Ellsbury.

Look at the contenders right now though in MLB.. KC was largely built from within with a few key players acquired via FA and trade. Houston is entirely from prospects and a dusting of FA/trade acquired talent. The Mets are primarily prospects. The Cubs. And on and on. Then the flip side you have the Dodgers, Red Sox, Yankees, Angels .. all the teams that have depleted farms and high payrolls. None of them have really won anything lately, save for a fluky title run by the Red Sox.. ironically fueled in large part due to a massive salary dump.

The M's continue to be in baseball no mans land with some really horrendous contracts to aging vets and a very very iffy farm. They are almost better off bottoming out for a few years just to rack up high draft picks and sell off whatever decent veteran talent they have for prospects. It's kind of a terrible way to present it to your fans though.. the notion that "hey we're probably going to lose 100 games for the next couple of years, but keep on coming out!" .. but over the long haul I think it's the only way the M's ever become relevant.

Great post, though. Hopefully Dipoto cleans up in the draft in the coming years because that is what it's going to take. My biggest fear is that it's likely this window of Felix/Cano/Cruz/Seager window is likely going to be fruitless, and that's such a damn shame.
 

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CurryStopstheRuns":2mqksyxm said:
CPHawk":2mqksyxm said:
Should have traded him last summer, when we could have gotten something for him. Another stupid forced non move, by our ownership.

Not necessarily. We should get an extra first round pick for him.

Sandwich pick. 30 to 45, like where we grabbed Walker four years ago.
 

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Hawk-Lock":8t7wgvsw said:
Paxton is a legit MLB pitcher. When healthy, he can be a legit #3 SP with potential to be a #2. Elias IMO is more of a project, I think at best he is a #4/5 SP. Losing Smith hurts, I liked him but he did struggle in the second half. Either way I don't like the trade. Wade Miley has been a gas can for the last two seasons. Not sure what the M's see in him. Seems like another JA Happ to me. You know what you are getting with him with little to no upside. Bringing in Miley has the same feeling as when the Hawks brought in Cary Williams.

This rotation could be one of the worst we've had in years....i hope I'm wrong though.

Problem is he's never healthy. He's 27. He has looked amazing at times and pedestrian at others. Until he can stay healthy, he's not an asset and can't be counted on. Sucks, because he has the stuff to be a No. 2, like you said. The command issues will always pose some problems. When he's on, he's unhittable.

Smith is tough to lose I guess, but relievers... I think you build your bullpen year to year unless you just have some absolutely amazing, proven arms. Looking at our current bullpen, Dipoto feels the same way.

And, Miley... He pitched half his games in hitter friendly Fenway. It will likely be a different story in Safeco.
 

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Having a good starting rotation impacts the bullpen. You can get by with a average bullpen if your starting pitching is performing well (meaning they are pushing into 6-8 innings). Wiley, although not a great pitcher, seems to eat up innings. That can help with the lack of relief pitching.
 

Atradees

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Mariners now have a closer combo in Benoit and Cisek. They have added several arms to the farm system.
 

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Atradees":21o4tmhu said:
Mariners now have a closer combo in Benoit and Cisek. They have added several arms to the farm system.

No-ones mentioned the kid from Oakland...decent arm?
 

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Uncle Si":3rkcl7on said:
Atradees":3rkcl7on said:
Mariners now have a closer combo in Benoit and Cisek. They have added several arms to the farm system.

No-ones mentioned the kid from Oakland...decent arm?
Scribner had the highest strikeout to walk ratio in the bigs at one point.
He is coming off a down year?
 

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Atradees":3n57dr0g said:
Uncle Si":3n57dr0g said:
Atradees":3n57dr0g said:
Mariners now have a closer combo in Benoit and Cisek. They have added several arms to the farm system.

No-ones mentioned the kid from Oakland...decent arm?
Scribner had the highest strikeout to walk ratio in the bigs at one point.
He is coming off a down year?

64/4 K/BB ratio last year. He just gives up a lot of dingers. Should be good for us though.
 

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Rob12":26fd3e8c said:
Atradees":26fd3e8c said:
Uncle Si":26fd3e8c said:
Atradees":26fd3e8c said:
Mariners now have a closer combo in Benoit and Cisek. They have added several arms to the farm system.

No-ones mentioned the kid from Oakland...decent arm?
Scribner had the highest strikeout to walk ratio in the bigs at one point.
He is coming off a down year?

64/4 K/BB ratio last year. He just gives up a lot of dingers. Should be good for us though.
Dipoto had mentioned because of our park he won't shy away from fly ball pitchers. I wonder if he saw Rodney in our park last year?
 
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