Max Unger and 1st for Jimmy Graham and 4th round pick

Seabean

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razgriz737":9vwiadvr said:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/MikeSilver/status/575398413640015873[/tweet]

Yeah, for as much animosity as the Seahawks defensive players may hold for Jimmy Graham, I think they may have been equally frustrated with our offense at times last year. Jimmy scoring a couple touchdowns and celebrating with the gang will quickly change those sorts of things.

I think that these kind of "I hate you, and we could never play on the same team" rivalries are one of the most overrated aspects in sports (Sherman and Crabtree being a notable exception).
 

pehawk

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Hawk-Lock":2fswmzka said:
Only thing that scares me about Graham is every year he gets nicked up. Nothing serious, but he always has lingering injuries. If you play fantasy football, you know what i'm talking about.

You have fantasies about Jimmy Graham? Is it because he's albino, because that's why I do.
 

kearly

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I LOVE this trade.

Graham is soft. So what? The guy is basically a 6'7" slot WR who is nails in the red zone. Paul Richardson is soft. So what? He runs great routes and is difficult to defend inside 15 yards. Bryan Walters and Ricardo Lockette? Not exactly the most physical WRs ever.

Having a couple of soft weapons on our offense isn't going to change the fact that Seattle is still the league's premiere smashmouth team. As long as we have Lynch, as long as we have Cable, and as long as we have the LOB, our team will be the baddest team around. Jimmy Graham won't change that.

Jimmy Graham is not going to be able to replace Zach Miller's blocking ability, but until the offseason is over, we should withhold judgement. Maybe Seattle views Graham as more of a slot WR than an inline guy? Maybe the Hawks still plan to bring in a blocking TE. Maybe Miller comes back for less money.

A lot of people here wonder about usage. While it's true that Graham probably won't post 1215 or 1310 receiving yards, he might still end up with 9,10,11 TDs. In 2013 this guy had 16 TDs. Sixteen! Pete has long searched for his touchdown maker in the passing game. Well, he just got one.

And regarding usage in Seattle, remember that in 2014 Seattle made it their mission to get Percy Harvin ten touches a game. It didn't work out because Harvin is nuts and Bevell is under-qualified, but it was definitely the goal. Seattle didn't pay all that money and picks for Harvin to be an afterthought. It will be the same thing with Graham. Look for Seattle to get him the ball as much as they possibly can. Graham has had 85, 86, and 85 receptions the last three years. Expect Seattle to shoot for that number, and maybe make it to 75.

As far as what they gave up, I think it's such a good price that I wonder if the Saints are hiding something from us. Graham is worth way more than a #31 overall pick. He's worth more than twice that. Late 1st round picks generally suck, and the irony here is that Seattle receives a 4th round pick in the trade where they've actually had more success than they've had in the late 1st historically (even before PC/JS, the Hawks have sucked in the late 1st).

Now with regards to Unger. I like the guy, but he has been a shell of himself the last two seasons. Not only the injuries and the bad snaps, but he's struggled some against bigger nosetackles in the run game. He is still a good center when healthy, but he just can't stay healthy and he isn't cheap. I've thought for a while that Seattle was looking to replace him, and was half expecting Unger to be CUT by next offseason.

I was also very impressed by Patrick Lewis last year. Very dependable in the run game and wasn't beaten in protection nearly as much as I was expecting. Had good snaps too. The line calls will come with time. I think Seattle's willingness to deal Unger had a lot to do with how impressive Lewis was in 2014. LMJ (a free agent) has also looked like a fringe starter during his time here.

Unger was injured last year so this isn't fair, but I personally thought a healthy Lewis outplayed an injured Unger in 2014. Part of the reason I love this trade is because Seattle sold high on Unger when I think Unger's days in Seattle were likely numbered.
 

kidhawk

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[urltargetblank]http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/03/10/jimmy-graham-trade-seahawks-new-orleans-saints-max-unger[/urltargetblank]
 

Seabean

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Zybot":3csdawbs said:
Overall I think it's a really good move. The draft picks aren't a big deal to me. Since we acquired Graham by trade, we still have a good shot of getting a good compensatory pick for Byron Maxwell, don't we? So basically, we trade a 1st for a 4th and maybe a 3rd (compensatory pick for Maxwell). Losing Unger sucks. Such a good locker room guy. But, I don't think they make this deal unless they are confident they can rebuild the OL. All Jimmy needs to do is play good football and he will win the respect of his teammates. Hope this doesn't backfire like the Percy Harvin trade.

No compensatory pick in play here because of the trade. In fact, none of our outside signings previously (Williams and Blackmon) will affect the compensatory pick process because they were cut.
 

kearly

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Anyone else think of the 3 WR set on 2nd and goal from the 1 after hearing about the Graham trade? This deal feels like a reaction to that final play.
 

Scottemojo

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kearly":7iten1f7 said:
And regarding usage in Seattle, remember that in 2014 Seattle made it their mission to get Percy Harvin ten touches a game. It didn't work out because Harvin is nuts and Bevell is under-qualified, but it was definitely the goal. Seattle didn't pay all that money and picks for Harvin to be an afterthought. It will be the same thing with Graham. Look for Seattle to get him the ball as much as they possibly can. Graham has had 85, 86, and 85 receptions the last three years. Expect Seattle to shoot for that number, and maybe make it to 75.
You said a lot of good stuff, but this stood out. Because Bevell is still under qualified.
 

45Hawker

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AbsolutNET":u4idebn1 said:
45Hawker":u4idebn1 said:
I'm intrigued and excited about what he brings - but his style of play minimizes play calling, IMO. With the saints, it got to be pretty predictable when they were going to run the ball: When Jimmy wasn't on the field, and when they were going to pass: when jimmy was.

Has clever play calling ever been a problem for the Darrell Bevell led Seahawks? We've seen minimalist play calling for the last 3 years.
Well, I guess you have a point. Now it will be minimalist AND predictable! Win win! :D

We needed a redzone threat, and JG is definitely that. I think this still leaves questions regarding the OL, TE position AND how JG will fit in with his new teammates. He has a reputation as immature and soft. I don't know if that's true or not, but if so, he'll have to adjust, because this is a team of men.

Lots of time left in offseason to address those concerns. (If they even are concerns, heck, Pete certainly knows more than i do…)
 

pehawk

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I would like to apologize for making a joke in this thread. Obviously it was wrong and thankfully my joke was removed. Mods are doing lords work.

Yyyyuuuuccckkk...
 

kearly

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Scottemojo":18vyp09g said:
You said a lot of good stuff, but this stood out. Because Bevell is still under qualified.

I think utilizing a 6'7" playmaker is so easy, even a Bevell can do it.
 

SomersetHawk

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pehawk":1b3cmlaq said:
Hasselbeck":1b3cmlaq said:
SomersetHawk":1b3cmlaq said:
I hate this. So much. I hate this so much.

Why?

All British people LOVE the draft. He's upset there's no 1st rounder.

Nailed it.

No, I hate this because Jimmy's a soft-ass guy who our team have rightfully bitched about on more than one occasion. If you were to pitch this to the board yesterday, I'd wager that 90% would be against it and I'm not going to convince myself otherwise. I got used to the way we did business - doing right by our guys, and we just sent a core guy to New Orleans along with our first draft pick for a guy I'd wager most of our team have little respect of.

I hope he prospers, we definitely needed a redzone target and Max Unger's inconsistent health was of some concern but it still isn't going to make me like this move. I sincerely hoping I'm so wrong you guys are forever reminding me though.
 

Hasselbeck

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kearly":2dlxwqnj said:
Anyone else think of the 3 WR set on 2nd and goal from the 1 after hearing about the Graham trade? This deal feels like a reaction to that final play.

Yep. That and the fact PC/JS witnessed first hand the strain Gronk put on his defense.
 

Sgt. Largent

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kearly":a1nlbhdm said:
I LOVE this trade.

Graham is soft. So what? The guy is basically a 6'7" slot WR who is nails in the red zone.

It's not like Willson's Dick Butkus.
 

Largent80

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kearly":2j9w2qk2 said:
Scottemojo":2j9w2qk2 said:
You said a lot of good stuff, but this stood out. Because Bevell is still under qualified.

I think utilizing a 6'7" playmaker is so easy, even a Bevell can do it.

Sounds like a Geico commercial.
 

NFSeahawks

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I've seen a lot of unjustified opinions on this trade giving what we've seen from the former pro-bowler in Unger.

Although I like the guy as a player, he's been underwhelming over the last two years, riddled with injuries and frankly not playing up to his pro bowl level. Lemuel Jeanpierre has been more than a capable talent at center in place of Unger.

I personally think it's a good move and is pretty even 50/50 in terms of value, and solves a desperate need at TE for the Seahawks.

I'M JIMMY!
 

bandiger

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I would be against this trade if Unger was healthier and had cleaner snaps, but man this solves alot of problems on offense with a legit #1 WR/TE, I'm amazed by PC/JS tandem. Kudos.
 

MysterMatt

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I have to admit, having Graham and Matthews on the field creates all sorts of matchup problems and opportunities for Baldwin and whomever. That's exciting.
 

theincrediblesok

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SomersetHawk":2sa02h6f said:
pehawk":2sa02h6f said:
Hasselbeck":2sa02h6f said:
SomersetHawk":2sa02h6f said:
I hate this. So much. I hate this so much.

Why?

All British people LOVE the draft. He's upset there's no 1st rounder.

Nailed it.

No, I hate this because Jimmy's a soft-ass guy who our team have rightfully bitched about on more than one occasion. If you were to pitch this to the board yesterday, I'd wager that 90% would be against it and I'm not going to convince myself otherwise. I got used to the way we did business - doing right by our guys, and we just sent a core guy to New Orleans along with our first draft pick for a guy I'd wager most of our team have little respect of.

I hope he prospers, we definitely needed a redzone target and Max Unger's inconsistent health was of some concern but it still isn't going to make me like this move. I sincerely hoping I'm so wrong you guys are forever reminding me though.

Our defense is the most physical team in the NFL, we play harder than every team out there. Graham is not use to playing against that type of physical team. Of course he has his immaturity but so does Gronk.

Our players will be fine with him it might have a little issues at first and maybe a punch swung here and there in practice but at the end, everyone will be fine with each other. As much of a headache you think Percy was, in the end Tate and Baldwin (only mention that the fighting rumors were true) never said anything bad about him being a teammate as a player. If there is animosity it's good to get it out early during training camp, which I see happening. Once the game starts they are playing for the team and one another.

We all don't have to like the trade, but if it ends up opening up the offense then I'm all in. If it doesn't pan out then we would be only leasing him for a year.
 

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