My new draft-crush: WR Allen Robinson - Penn State

[BC-Hawk]

I'm a big Allen Robinson fan. I don't think he'll last until 64, he's likely a high to mid 2nd rounder but has the chance to crack the end of Round 1. He's got great size and is competitive as hell. He's extremely underrated. Kelvin Benjamin would be great but I suspect he's going to end up going higher for us to even get a shot at him. Robinson would be a great get at 32.

 

[BC-Hawk]

We already have three very talented smallish receivers why would we spend a first round pick on another? His tape is good but not awe inspiring, he is a solid second tier receiving prospect nothing more.

6'2" 220 lbs. is "smallish?" He'd be the biggest WR on the team if we got him outside of Lockette.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

We already have three very talented smallish receivers why would we spend a first round pick on another? His tape is good but not awe inspiring, he is a solid second tier receiving prospect nothing more.

Harvin-Tate-Baldwin- Those guys are smallish. None over 5'11 or 200 pounds. Allen Robinson has a solid body frame that I think people mistake for smallish because of how easy he looks when he runs. He'll play a solid 220 pounds at 6' 2 and can make cuts and breaks on the ball like a player at 200 pounds.

Against any defense, he can be an every game contributor who gets you catches and yards with his feet. I see a big time effort guy when he plays who can fit into a Seahawks offense that wants to be the best scrambling passing team in the league.

He's a Tier 2 guy but only because the top 3 guys are straight beasts. Watkins is as good a prospect as Julio Jones and AJ Green while Evans and KB are physical freaks with upside/production.

My WR hawks board:
Tier 1: Watkins, Evans, KB
Tier 2: Lee, Robinson, Matthews, LSU twins, Adams
Tier 3: M. Bryant, Coleman, Street, Paul Richardson, (couple others still to work on).

Robinson will go somewhere in the mid-late first, early second rd. He won't be drafted to solve some team's perfect idea for a receiver. They'll draft him because he's a great football player.

 

[Natethegreat]

I don't disagree but when you already have a receiving core that is solid why draft another? We need a guy like KB, Evans,Coleman, or Hoffman not saying Robinson isn't/won't be a good receiver we just already have him is all.

 

[SDHawk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzCrpLd_ ... be&t=2m42s

 

[Recon_Hawk]

I don't disagree but when you already have a receiving core that is solid why draft another? We need a guy like KB, Evans,Coleman, or Hoffman not saying Robinson isn't/won't be a good receiver we just already have him is all.

IMO, it goes back to what Pete Carroll was saying, "To think there is only certain packages and there's only certain standards. You're going to make mistakes that way."

If you want to say that this team doesn't need a receiver badly enough in the first round, I could see that point of view, but I don't agree that if they do want to take a receiver they have to be 6'4 or taller.

Coleman and Hoffman are great players, but outside of Coleman having faster straight-line speed I don't see what have they shown they offer that can't do. Besides being a few inches taller they are roughly the same weight and both play slower (which means more to me than a 40 time).

AR is a all-around, explosive receiver and I don't think you can have enough of those players. If anything Baldwin and Tate showed is that having solid receivers on your roster who are multiple in what they can do is more important than trying to fill it with specific role players.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Here's the thing...

Seattle probably is only looking at bigger receivers. Because that's a need. More of what we already have is not a need.

If the top big guys are off the board (and I have no doubt they will be), for me they'll not draft a receiver in round one.

We need someone who can dominate the red line, win jump balls consistently and be a force in the red zone. These are all things we lack (apart from the red line, I think Baldwin and Tate do a surprisingly good job there).

If that isn't there, you look at DL depth. Or OL depth. Or a tight end.

We'll see tomorrow, and I'll be the first to come on here and admit I'm wrong if it's the case, that Robinson isn't an explosive athlete.

And whatever Pete says -- he's taken athletes in round one every year except 2011 -- when he drafted an absolute mountain of a man to run block instead.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Here's the thing...

Seattle probably is only looking at bigger receivers. Because that's a need. More of what we already have is not a need.

If the top big guys are off the board (and I have no doubt they will be), for me they'll not draft a receiver in round one.

We need someone who can dominate the red line, win jump balls consistently and be a force in the red zone. These are all things we lack (apart from the red line, I think Baldwin and Tate do a surprisingly good job there).

If that isn't there, you look at DL depth. Or OL depth. Or a tight end.

We'll see tomorrow, and I'll be the first to come on here and admit I'm wrong if it's the case, that Robinson isn't an explosive athlete.

And whatever Pete says -- he's taken athletes in round one every year except 2011 -- when he drafted an absolute mountain of a man to run block instead.

You and I see eye to eye on this one.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

That's fair, English. I'm not one to think you can ever have too much of a good thing. The ability to create yards after the catch is a valuable trait for any receiver. Drafting a player who can be similar to Golden Tate does but at 3 inches taller and 20 pounds heavier ain't a bad thing. Especially at #32 where getting superstar athletes aren't around unless you're drafting projects.

The fact Seattle's drafted three athletes with top-15 picks doesn't surprise me. There's not a team who doesn't draft athletes in the first half of round one. It doesn't surprise me either that they drafted a lesser athlete Like Carp in the late first round - the special athletes go early in the draft.

Ultimately, this is a deep wide receiver draft and the front office might see a first-round receiver as a lesser need, assuming they re-sign Tate. AR isn't my top player I want to see drafted in the first round, but he's worth the selection, imo.

 

[BC-Hawk]

I agree that a big receiver would be great to have, I happen to think that guys like AR and Jordan Matthews are that type of player, but if we go with an OG or another position in Round 1 a guy that you might see the Hawks look at in Round 4 is Martavis Bryant from Clemson. 6'4" 211 lbs. (likely dropped weight to run fast tomorrow, I think he plays at a bigger weight) and is a great jump ball receiver. He's a sleeper that I could definitely see Pete and JS eyeing during the draft.

 

[ImTheScientist]

4.6 first run....

No thanks. If he it here in the 4th...then I would take him.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

4.60 not unexpected.

He aint a great athlete. He's shifty. And the worry is, will be quite as shifty at the next level without the great speed?

 

[SomersetHawk]

Meh, still wont make him fall as far as the 4th.

Really wish we had our 3rd this year, there is going to be a lot of talent around in it.

Seems like a real quick class this year, no?

 

[Jazzhawk]

A few on here (the Robinson naysayers) remind me of the Tim Ruskell school of evaluation.....only look at the test measurables, and ignore the vast evidence of on-field playmaking highlights. For the record, that is not a compliment. (BTW, 6-2, 220 lbs is not smallish at all.)

As I review the video, a few things are EVIDENT to the eye: 1) he runs good routes and separates from the DB. 2) He makes tough catches.
3) he does NOT go down easy. 4) He's durable.

By all accounts, Jerry Rice was a combine failure and should never have been drafted as high as he was by the 49ers. But thankfully for them, Bill Walsh saw beyond simple measurables and understood that Rice was an athlete and a football player, and the on-field evidence overshadowed his Combine and pro-day achievements. I'm not saying Robinson is the next Rice. I'm simply saying, don't ignore the body of work from the games the man has played.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

A few on here (the Robinson naysayers) remind me of the Tim Ruskell school of evaluation.....only look at the test measurables, and ignore the vast evidence of on-field playmaking highlights. For the record, that is not a compliment. (BTW, 6-2, 220 lbs is not smallish at all.)

As I review the video, a few things are EVIDENT to the eye: 1) he runs good routes and separates from the DB. 2) He makes tough catches.
3) he does NOT go down easy. 4) He's durable.

By all accounts, Jerry Rice was a combine failure and should never have been drafted as high as he was by the 49ers. But thankfully for them, Bill Walsh saw beyond simple measurables and understood that Rice was an athlete and a football player, and the on-field evidence overshadowed his Combine and pro-day achievements. I'm not saying Robinson is the next Rice. I'm simply saying, don't ignore the body of work from the games the man has played.

This speed is going to preclude him from top 40 consideration.

He could well be an outstanding WR. But the reality is, this draft is just packed with guys who could well be outstanding WRs in their own right. He's probably dropping to R3 based on this speed. It's shockingly slow. And Robinson did have speed questions heading into the combine. To me, he's a much slower Percy Harvin. He has good balance, tough to bring down. Decent change of direction. But he lacks any kind of burst that Harvin has which allows him to break free and clean from missed tackles for great YAC. Robinson doesn't get away from tackles easily, but he does have the strength to drag them along for an extra 3-5 yards.

Robinson dropped about 35-40 spots in the draft with this run. And it's going to be unfair to him. Some team is going to get a steal in the third. It will simply be a function of the fact that this run put about 7-8 receivers between where he was expected to go in 30-40 overall range to where he's going to go now. Those receivers all have good tape too. Robinson doesn't distinguish himself from other 2nd round guys to that degree. But the absence of speed really hurts. That's going to mean 10 to 12 WR hungry teams will have already drafted a WR and won't be in the market for one.

I don't believe the speed is going to hurt his pro prospects. He's going to make an NFL team and should contribute right away. It will hurt his draft position badly. It's like watching a figure skater fall. They could be awesome at all other aspects. But they are out of contention because other quality competitors didn't stumble.

 

[SomersetHawk]

People pay way too much attention to 40 times. The only merit they have in judging a receiver is how quick he can run a go route.

Robinson was one of the more fluent runners I've seen on tape. Keenan Allen dropped way too far last year after a slow 40 time and I see a lot of similarity between him and AR, not least that someone's going to get themselves a bargain again.

And Attyla, shockingly slow? Larry Fitz ran 4.63, I'll take shockingly slow as long as the guy is shifty enough to get separation.

 

[ImTheScientist]

A few on here (the Robinson naysayers) remind me of the Tim Ruskell school of evaluation.....only look at the test measurables, and ignore the vast evidence of on-field playmaking highlights. For the record, that is not a compliment. (BTW, 6-2, 220 lbs is not smallish at all.)
.

We must know a different Ruskell. You strike me as a new fan, or someone who isn't familiar with the history of JS and PC firt round picks.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

People put way too much stock in measurement and every year there's an overreaction to 40 times. Keenan Allen fell in last year's draft because of it, yet was the best rookie receiver. DeAndre Hopkins was presumed to fall because of a 4.57, but was still drafted #27.

Imo, you're missing on the tape if you think Allen Robinson plays slow or is not a great athlete. He does not have elite top speed, but he can accelerate faster than a lot of these guys showing better 40 times.

"So @ScottEnyeart knows Coach Carlisle, the Seahawks (and USC prior) Strength coach...here is what Seahawks look at...Seahawks look at 10 yard split and 3cone over 40 yard time...They also look at 20 yard split..Carlisle knows that 40 times can be trained for (some guys play as fast as they run & some guys dont & they know that)" @DavisHsuSeattle

Compare him to some of the other receivers in the class (numbers from @JoshNorris):

I'm only showing three receivers, but AR's 10 yard split compared favorably to many of the others and when compared to guys below, he basically outperformed them outside of Brandon Coleman running a little bit faster.

Allen Robinson
Broad Jump: 127" - top 3 w/ WRs
Vertical Jump: 39" - top 6 w/ WRs
Unofficial 10 yard split: 1.60 & 1.54
Official 40: 4.6

Brandon Coleman
Broad Jump: U/A
Vertical Jump: 32"
Unofficial 10 yard split: 1.63 & 1.63
Official 40: 4.56

Kelvin Benjamin
Broad Jump: 119"
Vertical Jump: 32.5"
Unofficial 10 yard split: 1.66 & 1.62
Official 40: 4.61

Cody Hoffman
Broad Jump: 108"
Vertical Jump: 27"
unofficial 10 yard split: 1.62 & 1.56
Official 40: 4.65

If people want an even better athlete, I get that, but to say a guy like Brandon Coleman is athletic enough to fit this offense, but Allen is not is a joke. Especially when considering Allen's tape and production is far better.

 

[cover-2]

Robinson played at 210 lbs during this season and I wonder if bulking up to 220 lbs may have taken some of his long speed. While I never thought he was a speedster, looking at his football speed I thought he would run somewhere between a 4.5 - 4.55 40-yard dash.

Robinson was in the top-6 for his position in the vertical jump and broad jump, which are the other two test that are key to measuring a prospects explosiveness. So its not as though he is a average athlete. If he stay at 220 lbs then maybe he becomes the next Anquan Boldin.

If Robinson was to fall to us in the 2nd round, then he would IMO be a steal at that point of the draft.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

A few on here (the Robinson naysayers) remind me of the Tim Ruskell school of evaluation.....only look at the test measurables, and ignore the vast evidence of on-field playmaking highlights. For the record, that is not a compliment. (BTW, 6-2, 220 lbs is not smallish at all.)

As I review the video, a few things are EVIDENT to the eye: 1) he runs good routes and separates from the DB. 2) He makes tough catches.
3) he does NOT go down easy. 4) He's durable.

By all accounts, Jerry Rice was a combine failure and should never have been drafted as high as he was by the 49ers. But thankfully for them, Bill Walsh saw beyond simple measurables and understood that Rice was an athlete and a football player, and the on-field evidence overshadowed his Combine and pro-day achievements. I'm not saying Robinson is the next Rice. I'm simply saying, don't ignore the body of work from the games the man has played.

I love it when the Rice example gets used. Like there's loads of Jerry Rice's out there, who sucked at the combine, with middling physical qualities and became legendary all-time receivers. Really it's no different than using Tom Brady as an example for never drafting a quarterback in round one. They are both exceptions.

And I don't think people are ignoring what he's achieved. I can only speak for myself, but I've watched seven Penn State games concentrating specifically on Allen. And I've talked very positively about what he does well, how he's effective, that he's a terrific YAC guy and a very shifty runner in the open field. He's got a tremendous character and he'll work his ass off at the next level.

But that doesn't mean he's a first round Seattle Seahawks pick, or a first rounder period.

And the Ruskell reference is just bizarre. Ruskell concentrated on high character senior players with big production at big schools. I'm not sure how an opinion of not believing Robinson is a Seahawks pick is Ruskell-esque, given the only non-Ruskell aspect of Robinson is he aint a senior. Really don't get that at all.