Navarro Bowman

[seahawk12thman]

Instead of millions of different 9er threads we should merge them mod?? Obviously since they are our hated rivals there is going to be much discourse without always staying on topic. Thoughts?

 

[RichNhansom]

So Marvin you and other 9 fans have stated Goldstein and Whitney were both over rated, as well as Walker but Goldstein was an all pro and didn't Whitner make the pro bowl too? So my question is how many other 9ers didn't deserve the pro bowl votes?

I'm constantly hearing from 9er fans how stacked your roster is and evidenced by so many probowlers. So how come when a pro bowl player departs they were suddenly over rated?

 

[Marvin49]

So Marvin you and other 9 fans have stated Goldstein and Whitney were both over rated, as well as Walker but Goldstein was an all pro and didn't Whitner make the pro bowl too? So my question is how many other 9ers didn't deserve the pro bowl votes?

I'm constantly hearing from 9er fans how stacked your roster is and evidenced by so many probowlers. So how come when a pro bowl player departs they were suddenly over rated?

...fair question.

To me though Goldson and Whitner were the big ones. Good players, but not as good as advertised. Really protected by the front 7. Thumpers, but not great in coverage. Whitner had the same issue in Buffalo BTW...he just didn't have the 49ers front 7 in front of him there. He was also totally exposed by tall TEs.

I've been saying that all along as well, not just when they signed with other teams.

What other Pro Bowlers are overrated? Well who does that leave?

Staley? Not overrated.
Iupati? Not overrated.
Gore? a BIT overrated just because of his age.
Davis? Not overrated...although more a vertical player than a classic TE
Miller (Alternate): Tough to say...so few true Fullbacks
Aldon? NOT overrated
Justin? A bit overrated, but similar to Gore. He's just slowing down a bit.
Willis? Not overrated
Bowman? Not overrated
Reid (Alternate)? Too early to tell. Looked good, but REALLY early in his career.

Walker? You mean Delanie? I for one really liked him and wanted him to stay.


I know it looks like niner fans automatically seem to shift to "that guy was overrated" when they lose a guy, but you might want to ask the question a bit differently.

Perhaps they are non longer Niners BECAUSE they were overrated and the 49ers weren't going to overpay them to stay. My bet is that Bethea has a much better year this year in SF than he did last year in Indy and eventually people will see Bethea leave and call him an "integral" part of the team they just lost. Bethea is better now than Whitner was in Buffalo. The difference? Playing with that front 7 in front of them. When Bethea was making pro bowls he had Freeney and Mathis in their primes playing in front of him. Mathis had a great year last year, no doubt...but he was pretty much it.

 

[hawknation2014]

Basically, any player that is not on the team now was overrated, and every player currently on the team is not overrated. Homers always sound alike. And when the 49ers fail to re-sign Aldon Smith next year, he too will join the ranks of the "overrated," just like Donte Whitner.

 

[Marvin49]

Basically, any player that is not on the team now was overrated, and every player currently on the team is not overrated. Homers always sound alike. And when the 49ers fail to re-sign Aldon Smith next year, he too will join the ranks of the "overrated," just like Donte Whitner.

BS.

I was saying Goldson and Whitner were overrated BEFORE they left. I did it HERE, on THIS SITE. Often. Doesn't it seem odd that Reid was BETTER than Goldson as a rookie? Its because Goldson wasn't as good as people thought. That same principal can be applied to Reid as well....and that's why I'm saying its too early to say how good he is.

I viewed the 49ers secondary as a weakness that needed to be upgraded, not as a rock that could be built upon. I've always felt that way.

BTW, Aldon has a year left, but they will likely use the 5th year option on him so he has 2 years left. After that if he's not resigned, they have the franchise tag. He isn't going anywhere.

Lemme ask it this way...which of those guys I listed do YOU think are overrated? What happened to the 49ers secondary when both Justin and Aldon were hurt?

I know it looks and sound convenient, but seriously, don't you think the Niners would have made more of an effort to keep them if they were that vital? They were never identified as core guys who NEEDED to be retained. Guess what? Frank Gore is probably in his last year in SF. Justin only has a year or 2 left. Both of those guys are showing age and I'll say that after they were gone. Why? Because it's true.


...and BTW...comparing Donte Whitner and Aldon Smith is ludicrous. Whitner was nearly a 1st round bust that signed a small contract with his second team. He was considered a marginal starter before he signed in SF. Aldon has more sacks per game played than any player in NFL history.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Basically, any player that is not on the team now was overrated, and every player currently on the team is not overrated. Homers always sound alike. And when the 49ers fail to re-sign Aldon Smith next year, he too will join the ranks of the "overrated," just like Donte Whitner.

Pretty much. That's why some us refer to Marvin as "the human excuse machine".

 

[JZ#1]

I have seen 49er fans complain about Whitner's coverage skills for a while now. Surprisingly, Whitner greatly improved in that area last year.

 

[Marvin49]

I have seen 49er fans complain about Whitner's coverage skills for a while now. Surprisingly, Whitner greatly improved in that area last year.

That's true. This past year was Whitners best year in coverage.

 

[JZ#1]

Whitner is kind of similar to Golden Tate. He is very good nice player. His loss could hurt but it really depends on how the player replacing him plays. But Whitner is not the type of guy you break the bank on. He isn't close to the Earl Thomas, Aldon Smith etc caliber of player so it doesn't make sense to spend money on the good but not elite players in risk of losing cornerstone pieces.

 

[Popeyejones]

^^^^ Agree in sentiment, but the difference between Tate and Whitner/Goldson is almost as large as the difference between Whitner/Goldson and the Thomas' and Aldon's of the world on the other end.

Unlike Tate, Whitner and Goldson have each gone to multiple pro-bowls, who signed for the 3rd highest and 8th highest contracts for all safeties in the NFL. They're firmly second tier pro-bowl guys.

In contrast Tate has never been remotely close to sniffing a pro-bowl and signed as the 20th highest paid WR; kinda similar to Delanie Walker who is also a really good player but has never been close to the Pro-Bowl and signed as the 14th highest paid TE.

So, not bagging on Tate (who I really, really, really like as a player) and agreed with the sentiment of the post, but I think the comparison is off. The Hawks and their fans are fortunate enough to not have to be letting their second-tier Pro-Bowlers walk yet (e.g. the Okung's, Chancellor's, Lynch's, and Unger's of the world), although the team is so talented up and down the roster that's probably inevitable (much like it has been, and will continue to be for the 9ers -- see Iupati next year).

 

[hawknation2014]

Antoine Bethea sucks. He allowed 14.5 average yards per completion last season, as well as a 103.1 QB Rating, per PFF.

Compare that to Whitner, who allowed only a 66.8 QB Rating last season. He had a +10.5 rating in coverage. Bethea's grade was -4.9.

Combined with their issues at corner, expect a big drop off for the 49ers in pass coverage. Percy Harvin/Doug Baldwin are going to have a field day against this secondary.

 

[SF49r]

Antoine Bethea sucks. He allowed 14.5 average yards per completion last season, as well as a 103.1 QB Rating, per PFF.

Compare that to Whitner, who allowed only a 66.8 QB Rating last season. He had a +10.5 rating in coverage. Bethea's grade was -4.9.

Combined with their issues at corner, expect a big drop off for the 49ers in pass coverage. Percy Harvin/Doug Baldwin are going to have a field day against this secondary.

And that's under the Colts defensive scheme and behind there front seven which is not nearly as stout as the 49ers. Who knows how he will prosper with a new environment and different scheme. To look at how he did last season with a whole different team to justify how he will do next season is a load of BS. His numbers may get better or they may get worse, who knows it's unpredictable. Before donte whitner signed with the 49ers he was rated as one of the worst safeties. His first year with us he turned into an above - average safety.

 

[hawknation2014]

Antoine Bethea sucks. He allowed 14.5 average yards per completion last season, as well as a 103.1 QB Rating, per PFF.

Compare that to Whitner, who allowed only a 66.8 QB Rating last season. He had a +10.5 rating in coverage. Bethea's grade was -4.9.

Combined with their issues at corner, expect a big drop off for the 49ers in pass coverage. Percy Harvin/Doug Baldwin are going to have a field day against this secondary.

And that's under the Colts defensive scheme and behind there front seven which is not nearly as stout as the 49ers. Who knows how he will prosper with a new environment and different scheme. To look at how he did last season with a whole different team to justify how he will do next season is a load of BS. His numbers may get better or they may get worse, who knows it's unpredictable. Before donte whitner signed with the 49ers he was rated as one of the worst safeties. His first year with us he turned into an above - average safety.

You have to admit your secondary is looking UGLY going into the draft. Bethea's quickness and cover skills are on the steep decline. Reid looks solid in coverage, but misses tackles and takes bad angles at times. Your CBs? Eric "Date Rape Pills" Wright and Chris "Hit and Run" Culliver? Neither has played much lately. Wright has played for four different teams in four years. It's not looking pretty for you guys.

 

[SF49r]

Antoine Bethea sucks. He allowed 14.5 average yards per completion last season, as well as a 103.1 QB Rating, per PFF.

Compare that to Whitner, who allowed only a 66.8 QB Rating last season. He had a +10.5 rating in coverage. Bethea's grade was -4.9.

Combined with their issues at corner, expect a big drop off for the 49ers in pass coverage. Percy Harvin/Doug Baldwin are going to have a field day against this secondary.

And that's under the Colts defensive scheme and behind there front seven which is not nearly as stout as the 49ers. Who knows how he will prosper with a new environment and different scheme. To look at how he did last season with a whole different team to justify how he will do next season is a load of BS. His numbers may get better or they may get worse, who knows it's unpredictable. Before donte whitner signed with the 49ers he was rated as one of the worst safeties. His first year with us he turned into an above - average safety.

You have to admit your secondary is looking UGLY going into the draft. Bethea's quickness and cover skills are on the steep decline. Reid looks solid in coverage, but misses tackles and takes bad angles at times. Your CBs? Eric "Date Rape Pills" Wright and Chris "Hit and Run" Culliver? Neither has played much lately. Wright has played for four different teams in four years. It's not looking pretty for you guys.

Honestly I agree with you, the situation with our secondary is not pretty at all momentarily. However the secondary has always been a weak spot and this time we finally get a chance to rebuild it with young guys. T-brock is the only solid corner we have, the rest are unproven although Wright looks promising. I am a little optimistic about Bethea, I feel he could do better then whitner and those 15 yarders were frustrating. Reid is great so far but yeah his tackling needs some work.

 

[RichNhansom]

Haha Eric "date rape pills" Wright.

Haven't heard about this one. Someone please fill me in. Is he the 9ers version of Sharper?

 

[Marvin49]

Just a few notes on the above comments....

1) Eric Wright isn't a starter. He is fighting for a roster spot. Culliver was going to start with Tramaine Brock, not Eric Wright.
2) Bethea is much better than some peeps here are giving him credit for. Am I expecting him to come in and play like an all-pro? No. I do expect him to play better than he did in Indy last year because he has a very different front 7 in front of him. People forget that the Bills let Whitner walk to begin with because he sucked in coverage. He was a top 10 pick and his second contract was for relative peanuts. It wasn't until he came to SF and played behind that front 7 that he became a pro bowler.
3) It is correct that the secondary needs some work. No question there. How the 49ers draft will have a significant impact on that group. I'd expect a safety and a couple corners. I think what most 49er fans here are saying though that it isn't like the Niners are trying to replace Sherman, Thomas and Chancellor with rookies. They don't need to be that good (or even close) for the Niner D to be as good as it was last year. The secondary was never the strength of the defense.

Seattle is built differently. Losing those guys would have an ENORMOUS impact on the Seahawks D because those are the guys that really make that thing go. Its simply a different dynamic in SF. Now if it were Bowman, Willis AND Aldon...THAT would be crushing.

 

[hawknation2014]

Haha Eric "date rape pills" Wright.

Haven't heard about this one. Someone please fill me in. Is he the 9ers version of Sharper?

Eric Wright was expelled from USC, while Pete was there, after being caught with 136 tablets of Ecstacy and GHB in his apartment. Police searched his apartment after a woman claimed Wright gave her the drugs and then sexually assaulted her. However, the victim later refused to testify, and the prosecutor said they would not move forward with either the sexual assault or drug possession charges without her testimony. Wright subsequently transferred to UNLV.

 

[3Girls'HawkDad]

Therapist

 

[Sherminator]

Basically, any player that is not on the team now was overrated, and every player currently on the team is not overrated. Homers always sound alike. And when the 49ers fail to re-sign Aldon Smith next year, he too will join the ranks of the "overrated," just like Donte Whitner.

I will agree that Aldon receives a lot of help on his pass rush.
He reaps the benefits of the other Smith and Brooks constant pressure on opposing blockers.
But in no way is he over-rated. If we fail to re-sign him he would probably be deemed over-rated because he is going to be used differently and change his style of play.
But his level of performance in our current defense speaks for itself.
The man is not over-rated.

I will agree though that Whitner is over-rated.
He benefitted from our pass rush and run defense. He was constantly looking for that big play and our defense covered his a$$ a lot of the time.
If he plays like that in Cleveland... He will suck.

 

[Marvin49]

Basically, any player that is not on the team now was overrated, and every player currently on the team is not overrated. Homers always sound alike. And when the 49ers fail to re-sign Aldon Smith next year, he too will join the ranks of the "overrated," just like Donte Whitner.

I will agree that Aldon receives a lot of help on his pass rush.
He reaps the benefits of the other Smith and Brooks constant pressure on opposing blockers.
But in no way is he over-rated. If we fail to re-sign him he would probably be deemed over-rated because he is going to be used differently and change his style of play.
But his level of performance in our current defense speaks for itself.
The man is not over-rated.

I will agree though that Whitner is over-rated.
He benefitted from our pass rush and run defense. He was constantly looking for that big play and our defense covered his a$$ a lot of the time.
If he plays like that in Cleveland... He will suck.

Everytime I see the "he's only good because of Justin Smith" argument (and I know that's not what you are saying), it just tells me peeps aren't really paying attention. How can you watch the below and say its just because of Justin Smith?

Another angle of that last one...

...and there are many, many more that I just can't find gifs for.