Notes vs Denver.

[Anthony!]

A pass on the goal line isn't usually a play where you hold the ball for more than three or four seconds. Russ was partially responsible there.

Hmm he had less than 2 seconds but the play takes 3-4 and so its Wilson fault. Hmm yeah that make sense.

 

[CurryStopstheRuns]

If Tyler Lockett is a lock, and I think he is, then I think preseason games are better spent testing those who are not. I wasn't too see him too, but I wasn't the coaches to make good decisions when more.

Translation, please?

 

[Anthony!]

Your desire to blame Russel for poor offensive line play is really old and quite frankly ridiculous. Even Pete said the line had to improve and quickly. The Denver dline had free run on Russ from the get go. At least one man on our Oline let someone blow right by them nearly every pass play. Especially early on when our starters were out there.

Agreed but some will always blame Russ for the oline play. The olien could play horrible all game, like they did, and if certain people feel if Russ does one thing wrong all game that makes the oline look bad then the whole problem is Russ.
Okung looked bad because he was bad, all night.

Okung only allowed one pressure last night and had some great blocks in the run game. As Scotte explained in his OP, that play wasn't really Okung's fault. It was Sweezy who totally whiffed on his block and committed a hold in the process.

Yeah I recorded the game and just rewatched it you are right it was Sweezy.

 

[hawkfan68]

While Sweezy has improved from where he first started, he still whiffs on quite a number of plays during a game. He looks really good on the Seahawks OL but how would he look on teams with a decent OL? I don't believe he'd be a top player on those teams. The Seahawk OL is pretty weak and can make average lineman look pretty good. Watching the run game like last night makes me appreciate what Lynch does to make the OL look better than it is. It seems that Cable is above criticism on here. Who other than Sweezy has gotten better under his coaching? The Seahawk run game is much different (worse) when Lynch is not in there than when he is. If Cable has the OL playing good then they would still be adequate without Lynch running behind them. Turbin, Michael, or whoever would still be getting good runs behind the OL. Look at the 2001-05 Seahawk OL. Even when Alexander went out, Seahawks didn't miss a beat behind that line.

Edit- Oops I realized I posted this in the wrong thread...sorry folks my bad. This was supposed to go into the OL thread. I can't delete since there have been posts after it. So if the mods want to delete, please do. Thanks.

 

[hawknation2015]

Bailey might be the best pass blocking prospect at LG we have. That ain't good. He got worked, with Okung actually blocking two guys, Bailey still whiffed.

At this point, I can no longer agree with the sentiment that Bailey is our best pass blocking prospect at LG.

Keavon Milton did not allow a pressure, sack, or QB hit last night. As a former TE, he displayed good athleticism. But more importantly, he was playing hard and physical during his snaps. I think he has a chance to be pretty good.

Mark Glowinski did allow a pressure that ended with Tarvaris Jackson landing awkwardly on Garry Gilliam. However, that was only after Jackson had at least four seconds of clean pocket to get the ball off. Glowinski showed solid power/athleticism. He didn't allow another pressure on his 32 snaps and was knocking guys back in the run game. It's too bad he was only playing RG in this game.

Do you mean the Keavon Milton, 66, that whiffed on a double team with Okung @2:17 of the 1st QTR, resulting in a pressure of TJ, and an ugly jump pass, in about 2 seconds? I don't know who got the blame for it, but the dude whiffed.

What happened on that play was sort of interesting. It's not Okung, it's actually Garry Gilliam (understandable mistake).

Gilliam gets beaten pretty badly off the ball by the defensive end, kind of turns his head, and then just gives up on the play. The defensive end splits the gap between Gilliam and Milton. Milton then turns and runs with the defensive end, hitting him in the left shoulder to knock him out of the pocket and allowing Jackson to get the ball off without being touched.

Whatever blame could be placed on Milton for the initial confusion on that play, he made up for in spades with that veteran effort to not give up on the play, like Gilliam did, and to protect the QB in knocking the rusher out of the pocket. Sometimes confusion will arise, it's how players respond to that confusion that says everything about them.

 

[Scottemojo]

A pass on the goal line isn't usually a play where you hold the ball for more than three or four seconds. Russ was partially responsible there.

Hmm he had less than 2 seconds but the play takes 3-4 and so its Wilson fault. Hmm yeah that make sense.

First, get out your stop watch and time it. Report back. You don't know for a fact it took 2 seconds. You are repeating what you heard to support a premise you like.

I watched the play a dozen times. I thought Russ had an easy pocket to climb. He hit the back of his drop and stayed there. It is my opinion that far less mobile QBs than Russ do not get sacked on that play specifically because they are very good at climbing a pocket. Russ has many talents, as of yet climbing a pocket has not been one of them. Camping on a spot the left tackle is likely to get backpedaled into is not a good habit.

 

[hawknation2015]

A pass on the goal line isn't usually a play where you hold the ball for more than three or four seconds. Russ was partially responsible there.

Hmm he had less than 2 seconds but the play takes 3-4 and so its Wilson fault. Hmm yeah that make sense.

First, get out your stop watch and time it. Report back. You don't know for a fact it took 2 seconds. You are repeating what you heard to support a premise you like.

I watched the play a dozen times. I thought Russ had an easy pocket to climb. He hit the back of his drop and stayed there. It is my opinion that far less mobile QBs than Russ do not get sacked on that play specifically because they are very good at climbing a pocket. Russ has many talents, as of yet climbing a pocket has not been one of them. Camping on a spot the left tackle is likely to get backpedaled into is not a good habit.

Not at all. By collapsing the pocket and momentarily getting free from Okung, Shane Ray had cut off any path Russell had to move forward. Russell was quite literally between a rock (Ray) and a hard place (Jackson).

 

[Scottemojo]

We are free to disagree.

Of course, without the all 22 I won't even begin to get into the routes on that play. It may be that Russ had few passing options on that play. It wouldn't be the first time he got sacked because the routes were all slow to develop.

 

[Scottemojo]

Bailey might be the best pass blocking prospect at LG we have. That ain't good. He got worked, with Okung actually blocking two guys, Bailey still whiffed.

At this point, I can no longer agree with the sentiment that Bailey is our best pass blocking prospect at LG.

Keavon Milton did not allow a pressure, sack, or QB hit last night. As a former TE, he displayed good athleticism. But more importantly, he was playing hard and physical during his snaps. I think he has a chance to be pretty good.

Mark Glowinski did allow a pressure that ended with Tarvaris Jackson landing awkwardly on Garry Gilliam. However, that was only after Jackson had at least four seconds of clean pocket to get the ball off. Glowinski showed solid power/athleticism. He didn't allow another pressure on his 32 snaps and was knocking guys back in the run game. It's too bad he was only playing RG in this game.

Do you mean the Keavon Milton, 66, that whiffed on a double team with Okung @2:17 of the 1st QTR, resulting in a pressure of TJ, and an ugly jump pass, in about 2 seconds? I don't know who got the blame for it, but the dude whiffed.

What happened on that play was sort of interesting. It's not Okung, it's actually Garry Gilliam (understandable mistake).

Gilliam gets beaten pretty badly off the ball by the defensive end, kind of turns his head, and then just gives up on the play. The defensive end splits the gap between Gilliam and Milton. Milton then turns and runs with the defensive end, hitting him in the left shoulder to knock him out of the pocket and allowing Jackson to get the ball off without being touched.

Whatever blame could be placed on Milton for the initial confusion on that play, he made up for in spades with that veteran effort to not give up on the play, like Gilliam did, and to protect the QB in knocking the rusher out of the pocket. Sometimes confusion will arise, it's how players respond to that confusion that says everything about them.

I saw that as Milton being late to get to his double team.

Gilliam did have a terrible game though.

 

[Anthony!]

A pass on the goal line isn't usually a play where you hold the ball for more than three or four seconds. Russ was partially responsible there.

Hmm he had less than 2 seconds but the play takes 3-4 and so its Wilson fault. Hmm yeah that make sense.

First, get out your stop watch and time it. Report back. You don't know for a fact it took 2 seconds. You are repeating what you heard to support a premise you like.

I watched the play a dozen times. I thought Russ had an easy pocket to climb. He hit the back of his drop and stayed there. It is my opinion that far less mobile QBs than Russ do not get sacked on that play specifically because they are very good at climbing a pocket. Russ has many talents, as of yet climbing a pocket has not been one of them. Camping on a spot the left tackle is likely to get backpedaled into is not a good habit.

Well at last you specify it is your opinion, and has been already said there was no place to step up and by the way 2.5 seconds to be exact. As to his ability to climb the pocket there has to be some place to climb to and last night there was none. So yes its your opinion and one that several on here disagree with and obviously the HC also as he made it clear the oline has to improve. FYI a less mobile QB would have been out of the game long before this play.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

This kvetching back and forth is what soured Kearly on posting exactly this kind of thing that everyone seems to like around here. We like nice things, right?

Respectful, non-confrontational discussion, folks. Let's at least give it a try.

 

[hawknation2015]

At this point, I can no longer agree with the sentiment that Bailey is our best pass blocking prospect at LG.

Keavon Milton did not allow a pressure, sack, or QB hit last night. As a former TE, he displayed good athleticism. But more importantly, he was playing hard and physical during his snaps. I think he has a chance to be pretty good.

Mark Glowinski did allow a pressure that ended with Tarvaris Jackson landing awkwardly on Garry Gilliam. However, that was only after Jackson had at least four seconds of clean pocket to get the ball off. Glowinski showed solid power/athleticism. He didn't allow another pressure on his 32 snaps and was knocking guys back in the run game. It's too bad he was only playing RG in this game.

Do you mean the Keavon Milton, 66, that whiffed on a double team with Okung @2:17 of the 1st QTR, resulting in a pressure of TJ, and an ugly jump pass, in about 2 seconds? I don't know who got the blame for it, but the dude whiffed.

What happened on that play was sort of interesting. It's not Okung, it's actually Garry Gilliam (understandable mistake).

Gilliam gets beaten pretty badly off the ball by the defensive end, kind of turns his head, and then just gives up on the play. The defensive end splits the gap between Gilliam and Milton. Milton then turns and runs with the defensive end, hitting him in the left shoulder to knock him out of the pocket and allowing Jackson to get the ball off without being touched.

Whatever blame could be placed on Milton for the initial confusion on that play, he made up for in spades with that veteran effort to not give up on the play, like Gilliam did, and to protect the QB in knocking the rusher out of the pocket. Sometimes confusion will arise, it's how players respond to that confusion that says everything about them.

I saw that as Milton being late to get to his double team.

Gilliam did have a terrible game though.

If you watch that play in slow motion, Milton initially doubles on the inside rusher. Meaning, Gilliam is one-on-one with the defensive end (only outside rusher). The end takes an initial step outside to fake out Gilliam and then goes hard inside with a rip move. Milton comes off his initial assignment to help Gilliam, who is just beaten badly on the play.

The thing that was so promising to me is what happened after Gilliam is beaten. Milton not only has the instincts to help Gilliam with his assignment but also the athleticism to ride the rusher through the pocket and then pushes him out with a nice use of leverage, a hit to the outside shoulder.

You're right that Milton was not credited with a pressure on the play by PFF. Beyond that, he saved Gilliam from having a sack allowed.

 

[Cartire]

Russell cant climb the pocket.

I thought people would know this by now. He is only 5'10". If he climbs to much, his vision is completely blocked. He only climbs to escape.

 

[Scottemojo]

This kvetching back and forth is what soured Kearly on posting exactly this kind of thing that everyone seems to like around here. We like nice things, right?

Respectful, non-confrontational discussion, folks. Let's at least give it a try.

Got it. Will do.

 

[hawknation2015]

This kvetching back and forth is what soured Kearly on posting exactly this kind of thing that everyone seems to like around here. We like nice things, right?

Respectful, non-confrontational discussion, folks. Let's at least give it a try.

Got it. Will do.

Thank you Scotte for a solid take and for provoking some interesting discussion on the offensive line play. :th2thumbs:

 

[seahawks187]

How many times have you really seen Russell Wilson climb the pocket?? Not very many.. He holds the ball like that all the time and then tries to escape out of the pocket.. Or he just runs backwards.. Anytime he has climbed the pocket it's of a surprise then anything.

The oline was bad. And that's it. Lol

 

[Anthony!]

Russell cant climb the pocket.

I thought people would know this by now. He is only 5'10". If he climbs to much, his vision is completely blocked. He only climbs to escape.

ahh ahh no he has and can climb the pocket, but usually there is no place to climb to.

 

[Cartire]

Russell cant climb the pocket.

I thought people would know this by now. He is only 5'10". If he climbs to much, his vision is completely blocked. He only climbs to escape.

ahh ahh no he has and can climb the pocket, but usually there is no place to climb to.

Citation needed

 

[Scottemojo]

Russell cant climb the pocket.

I thought people would know this by now. He is only 5'10". If he climbs to much, his vision is completely blocked. He only climbs to escape.

ahh ahh no he has and can climb the pocket, but usually there is no place to climb to.

Citation needed

As in Chevy ? Are you sure? That car was a piece of shit.

 

[DavidSeven]

The handwringing over o-line play in years past has often been ridiculous. I've always been with you there. Historically, a lot of that has been Russ's own doing, and it's only been really bad when the key guys were hurt.

I think we saw something different yesterday, though. In terms of longterm prospects, I agree it's way too soon to write anyone off. For 2015, however, it's hard for me to believe the pass-pro situation isn't Threat Level Midnight. At least when Sweezy was coming up, he was doing it around Okung (Pro-Bowl), Unger (All-Pro) and Breno (Certified Mauler). Yeah, those guys got hurt, but at least there was always the potential for a solid pro o-line to be available. And for the most part, they played the important games. What I see now: huge question marks at starting LG, C and RT; good players, but not all-pros, at LT and RG. Even if these guys play at their ceiling, we're talking about a pretty mediocre situation. If they get hurt or underperform? It's a wrap. Really the only hope here (for 2015) is that Nowak comes in and somehow changes the dynamic of the whole group. Doesn't seem that likely to me. I'm sitting here with thoughts of how good KJ Wright's $5M cap hit might've looked on someone like Mathis or, hell, Max Unger instead.

Separate note, agree on Clark. Always thought Clark was going to be Year 1 player. Agree with kearly that he may not be a stat stuffer (though I wouldn't even put that past him at this point), but he's going to ball and it's going to show up on screen.