O-Line, Back to the drawing board

[justafan]

I think the group just needs some veteran leadership.I would like them to bring a veteran tackle,I know they arnrt cheap or easy to find but if one was available next offseason it would make a huge difference IMO.

 

[justafan]

How can the Cowpies be squarely in the middle of that graph with 3 1st rounders on that line?

1st rounders are cheap compared to even mediocre veterans like Breno and Sweezy.

The bottom three teams are playoff teams, and the four elite NFL teams this year are middle or lower.

Oakland. 9 - 2 with the highest paid line in the league.

Obviously there are teams all over the place. That wasn't really the point. The point is that we and other teams are proving that you can win a LOT of games without an expensive OL. My point is that charts like that are pointless in terms of wins and losses.

Oh yeah, my point is also that we are 7-3-1 and in 2nd place in the NFC and running away with our division while having the lowest paid line by far.

In fact, the bottom 4 teams on that list are 7-3-1, 8-3, 8-3 and 7-4. Combined 30 wins.

The top 4 are 9-2, 5-6, 6-5 and 6-5. Combined 26 wins.

So what's the point? We spend less on the OL? So what?

I agree with a lot of your post.We dont have to out spend everyone to get results.But instead of spending 2.5 on a player like Webb and whatever Gilliam and Sowell make spend 5 on a player like Breno.Even spend 5 on Carp.They both aggravated the hell out of me but that was before I knew how bad the oline could be. 10 mil and the line could be closer to league average which might put us at 9-2 or even 11-0.

Its possible to build a cheap line but your draft picks have to play much better than we have seen the last couple of years.
JS weakness is drafting Olineman,its either that or Cable isnt developing them like we would hope.

 

[LeftHandSmoke]

1st rounders are cheap compared to even mediocre veterans like Breno and Sweezy.

The bottom three teams are playoff teams, and the four elite NFL teams this year are middle or lower.

Oakland. 9 - 2 with the highest paid line in the league.

Obviously there are teams all over the place. That wasn't really the point. The point is that we and other teams are proving that you can win a LOT of games without an expensive OL. My point is that charts like that are pointless in terms of wins and losses.

Oh yeah, my point is also that we are 7-3-1 and in 2nd place in the NFC and running away with our division while having the lowest paid line by far.

In fact, the bottom 4 teams on that list are 7-3-1, 8-3, 8-3 and 7-4. Combined 30 wins.

The top 4 are 9-2, 5-6, 6-5 and 6-5. Combined 26 wins.

So what's the point? We spend less on the OL? So what?

I agree with a lot of your post.We dont have to out spend everyone to get results.But instead of spending 2.5 on a player like Webb and whatever Gilliam and Sowell make spend 5 on a player like Breno.Even spend 5 on Carp.They both aggravated the hell out of me but that was before I knew how bad the oline could be. 10 mil and the line could be closer to league average which might put us at 9-2 or even 11-0.

Its possible to build a cheap line but your draft picks have to play much better than we have seen the last couple of years.
JS weakness is drafting Olineman,its either that or Cable isnt developing them like we would hope.[/quote]

Cable's title is something like deputy-head-coach, a position that must surely be very well compensated, highly valued by PC and JS.

While they all wait for a rock to shine like a true gem on the OL it is left to Cable to try tumble any of them into that category.

The good news is they are all physically good, it's only the 'targeting' that needs development. Which is exactly where coaching from Cable could get capilized on.

 

[justafan]

Everyone saw Hunt hike the ball and immediately dive for the players knees. Cable, do you coach this?

Gives us a first and twenty two at the 15 yard line.

In fact our lack of converting on third down caused us to get pinned inside the ten numerous times.

Tom Cable does coach this. According to this article, there was a new rule making chop blocks illegal and that the Seahawks would be one of the teams most impacted - http://sportsnaut.com/2016/03/report-nfl-outlaws-chop-blocks/. Considering how Hunt was diving and others on the Seahawks OL....it makes sense that Cable has been teaching this to them. Sweezy was doing it a lot last year as well. But at that time it wasn't illegal since they added this new rule in the offseason this year.

I hate that this is true. Seeing that penalty is beyond obnoxious considering we usually have a holding or some kind of infraction in each and every drive.

I get pretty pissed off with random penalties especially if they seem to be easily avoidable.

The cut block is a huge part of the ZBS and every coach teaches that.The penalty was that both contacted the player together. One on one cut block is legal.There was probably a brain fart on one of them and they both tried at the same time.

 

[justafan]

Seahawks better draft an O-lineman with their first and second round picks next year. Wtffffffffff

Ifedi was a high pick.

Maybe O-linemen just need time to develop.

You are right He does.He looked awfully rough.But why not let him learn at RT.He cant be any worse than what we have seen and guards are easier to find and cheaper than tackles.

Seems to be a history of Cable to turn some of the better college Ts into ok guards.

 

[McGruff]

Obviously there are teams all over the place. That wasn't really the point. The point is that we and other teams are proving that you can win a LOT of games without an expensive OL. My point is that charts like that are pointless in terms of wins and losses.

Oh yeah, my point is also that we are 7-3-1 and in 2nd place in the NFC and running away with our division while having the lowest paid line by far.

In fact, the bottom 4 teams on that list are 7-3-1, 8-3, 8-3 and 7-4. Combined 30 wins.

The top 4 are 9-2, 5-6, 6-5 and 6-5. Combined 26 wins.

So what's the point? We spend less on the OL? So what?

I agree with a lot of your post.We dont have to out spend everyone to get results.But instead of spending 2.5 on a player like Webb and whatever Gilliam and Sowell make spend 5 on a player like Breno.Even spend 5 on Carp.They both aggravated the hell out of me but that was before I knew how bad the oline could be. 10 mil and the line could be closer to league average which might put us at 9-2 or even 11-0.

Its possible to build a cheap line but your draft picks have to play much better than we have seen the last couple of years.
JS weakness is drafting Olineman,its either that or Cable isnt developing them like we would hope.

Where does that 10 million come from. You accounted for about 4 of it, but 6 million more has to come from cutting other players. Which position group becomes weaker so the line can become more expensive.

 

[justafan]

Harvins contract was huge.Would have paid a couple of years,plus a pick.Grahams contact isnt worth it in this offense.
How far would almost 40 mil and 2 number one picks gone?I read Jarhi Evans was 5 mil dead money.There are always options and most are better than starting the season with the Oline we started season with.

I dont want to lose any defensive players but you have to balance it out.6-6 ties wont get the team where we want it to go.

The team can draft and develop DBs.They have proven it over and over.Almost 40 mil in secondary salaries makes balancing the team difficult
They have struggled to draft,develop and keep Olineman.I think they need to buy them or pay to keep serviceable ones they do draft.

 

[McGruff]

Harvins contract was huge.Would have paid a couple of years,plus a pick.Grahams contact isnt worth it in this offense.
How far would almost 40 mil and 2 number one picks gone?I read Jarhi Evans was 5 mil dead money.There are always options and most are better than starting the season with the Oline we started season with.

I dont want to lose any defensive players but you have to balance it out.6-6 ties wont get the team where we want it to go.

The team can draft and develop DBs.They have proven it over and over.Almost 40 mil in secondary salaries makes balancing the team difficult
They have struggled to draft,develop and keep Olineman.I think they need to buy them or pay to keep serviceable ones they do draft.

How much for the magic time machine?

 

[NFSeahawks]

Seahawks better draft an O-lineman with their first and second round picks next year. Wtffffffffff

Ifedi was a high pick.

Maybe O-linemen just need time to develop.

You are right He does.He looked awfully rough.But why not let him learn at RT.He cant be any worse than what we have seen and guards are easier to find and cheaper than tackles.

Seems to be a history of Cable to turn some of the better college Ts into ok guards.

You can look at both Britt and Glowinski in terms of their upswing over the past few years. It shows that their development is a huge part of where they are now. I'm guilty of wanting to see Ifedi play great immediately but sometimes it's not realistic regardless of how much size or talent they seemingly have.

 

[CodeWarrior]

Obviously there are teams all over the place. That wasn't really the point. The point is that we and other teams are proving that you can win a LOT of games without an expensive OL. My point is that charts like that are pointless in terms of wins and losses.

Oh yeah, my point is also that we are 7-3-1 and in 2nd place in the NFC and running away with our division while having the lowest paid line by far.

In fact, the bottom 4 teams on that list are 7-3-1, 8-3, 8-3 and 7-4. Combined 30 wins.

The top 4 are 9-2, 5-6, 6-5 and 6-5. Combined 26 wins.

So what's the point? We spend less on the OL? So what?

I agree with a lot of your post.We dont have to out spend everyone to get results.But instead of spending 2.5 on a player like Webb and whatever Gilliam and Sowell make spend 5 on a player like Breno.Even spend 5 on Carp.They both aggravated the hell out of me but that was before I knew how bad the oline could be. 10 mil and the line could be closer to league average which might put us at 9-2 or even 11-0.

Its possible to build a cheap line but your draft picks have to play much better than we have seen the last couple of years.
JS weakness is drafting Olineman,its either that or Cable isnt developing them like we would hope.

Where does that 10 million come from. You accounted for about 4 of it, but 6 million more has to come from cutting other players. Which position group becomes weaker so the line can become more expensive.

Lane and Kearse.

 

[CodeWarrior]

How can the Cowpies be squarely in the middle of that graph with 3 1st rounders on that line?

1st rounders are cheap compared to even mediocre veterans like Breno and Sweezy.

The bottom three teams are playoff teams, and the four elite NFL teams this year are middle or lower.

Oakland. 9 - 2 with the highest paid line in the league.

Obviously there are teams all over the place. That wasn't really the point. The point is that we and other teams are proving that you can win a LOT of games without an expensive OL. My point is that charts like that are pointless in terms of wins and losses.

Oh yeah, my point is also that we are 7-3-1 and in 2nd place in the NFC and running away with our division while having the lowest paid line by far.

In fact, the bottom 4 teams on that list are 7-3-1, 8-3, 8-3 and 7-4. Combined 30 wins.

The top 4 are 9-2, 5-6, 6-5 and 6-5. Combined 26 wins.

So what's the point? We spend less on the OL? So what?

The point was that not all four elite teams are middle or lower in terms of OL spending. At 9 - 2 Oakland is an elite team boasting the highest paid OL in the league.

Dallas will takeover the top spot as highest paid OL in the league next year after Smith and Frederick's new deals actually kick in. The cap hit on those two players alone will increase in excess of $22M.

 

[McGruff]

Obviously there are teams all over the place. That wasn't really the point. The point is that we and other teams are proving that you can win a LOT of games without an expensive OL. My point is that charts like that are pointless in terms of wins and losses.

Oh yeah, my point is also that we are 7-3-1 and in 2nd place in the NFC and running away with our division while having the lowest paid line by far.

In fact, the bottom 4 teams on that list are 7-3-1, 8-3, 8-3 and 7-4. Combined 30 wins.

The top 4 are 9-2, 5-6, 6-5 and 6-5. Combined 26 wins.

So what's the point? We spend less on the OL? So what?

The point was that not all four elite teams are middle or lower in terms of OL spending. At 9 - 2 Oakland is an elite team boasting the highest paid OL in the league.

Dallas will takeover the top spot as highest paid OL in the league next year after Smith and Frederick's new deals actually kick in. The cap hit on those two players alone will increase in excess of $22M.

And then we'll see if Dallas is still elite when that happens.

Although, as we know, have an elite starting QB on a rookie salary is a nice cap luxury the have.

 

[mikehawks]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/hwkbgr/status/803044361776824320[/tweet]

Wow thats crazy! That is a biiiiiigggggg difference seeing it charted like that! Thanks for the post!

Russel Wilson makes three times as much as the Seahawks starting line. Just imagine how good the offense would be right now, if the Seahawks had an average line that was paid about 20 million. Than found a serviceable quarterback and maybe traded Wilson away for a premier running back. The team would be back in business.

 

[justafan]

Harvins contract was huge.Would have paid a couple of years,plus a pick.Grahams contact isnt worth it in this offense.
How far would almost 40 mil and 2 number one picks gone?I read Jarhi Evans was 5 mil dead money.There are always options and most are better than starting the season with the Oline we started season with.

I dont want to lose any defensive players but you have to balance it out.6-6 ties wont get the team where we want it to go.

The team can draft and develop DBs.They have proven it over and over.Almost 40 mil in secondary salaries makes balancing the team difficult
They have struggled to draft,develop and keep Olineman.I think they need to buy them or pay to keep serviceable ones they do draft.

How much for the magic time machine?

You asked how they could afford 6 mil for 2 players that they let walk a couple of years ago.I threw out some options they had at the time.

 

[chris98251]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/hwkbgr/status/803044361776824320[/tweet]

Wow thats crazy! That is a biiiiiigggggg difference seeing it charted like that! Thanks for the post!

Russel Wilson makes three times as much as the Seahawks starting line. Just imagine how good the offense would be right now, if the Seahawks had an average line that was paid about 20 million. Than found a serviceable quarterback and maybe traded Wilson away for a premier running back. The team would be back in business.

Seems that either you were not around, not born when we had Stan Gelbaugh, Kelly Stouffer, Dan McGwire, Ric Mirer, TJack whom your description states as serviceable.

I'll stay with guys like Zorn, Kreig, Hasselbeck, and yes Wilson.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Everyone salivates over the Dallas offensive line. I note that nobody's mentioned how many Super Bowls it's gotten them.

 

[sdog1981]

Everyone salivates over the Dallas offensive line. I note that nobody's mentioned how many Super Bowls it's gotten them.

The bill is coming due for the cost of that Oline. They will only have Dez, Zeak, Dak and the line. The rest of the team will be garbage.

 

[Seymour]

Everyone salivates over the Dallas offensive line. I note that nobody's mentioned how many Super Bowls it's gotten them.

Well they now have the cap advantage we had with qb and oline (mostly rookie deals). Once those all go to first contract, they'll lose some and make tough choices like we did. It's now or never for the boyz.

I think good D and average O beats good O and average D myself so I say we get by them if we get there.

 

[NFSeahawks]

Everyone salivates over the Dallas offensive line. I note that nobody's mentioned how many Super Bowls it's gotten them.

Well they now have the cap advantage we had with qb and oline (mostly rookie deals). Once those all go to first contract, they'll lose some and make tough choices like we did. It's now or never for the boyz.

I think good D and average O beats good O and average D myself so I say we get by them if we get there.

Defense wins championships, so yes you are correct.

 

[brimsalabim]

Everytime I saw Hunt, he was more concerned about getting to the 2nd level than blocking the man in front of him. I deleted the recording 10 minutes before the game was over so I can't look again.....thankfully.

. This has been a problem with all of our linemen under Cable. They are athletic enough to get to the second level but not technically sound enough to handle there 1st level assignments. It appears to be an issue with our scheme at this point.