Our future is better than you think.

[ivotuk]

Quote from another thread: "Also, our defense has allowed 176 points." While the topic is legit, we have to be careful about giving too much credence to stats.

As far as 176, wherever that number came from, (nfl.com I beiieve?) they forgot to account for TDs scored by the opposing Defense and Special Teams. It's not all on the defense.

I believe our overall team, including our defense is much better than people think.

First there's the flubs by T2, which should not reflect on the rest of the guys on defense. Even after that 50 yard completion, the Defense only allowed a Field Goal. Had T2 not gotten beat deep, it's very likely the Defense would have gotten off the field with no points scored.

So while the stats are interesting, they leave a lot to be desired. What they don't take in to consideration is that Pete plays A LOT of young guys early, getting them prepared for the second half of the season. That is when this team, Offense and Defense, always picks up the pace and starts outplaying opposing teams.

WHY do Pete's teams play better than others late in the season, because of injuries, and the fact that Pete has already prepared his young players to step in by playing them early. Now some injuries are very difficult to overcome, such as Will Dissly, and Duane Brown. Shuffling the OLine and not having Dissly, Brown, Fluker, and sometimes Iupati available, makes a big difference in how well our offense plays. Plus it takes away George Fant as their extra Tight End. So basically, they're down 3 tight ends with Fant playing Left Tackle, Dissly on IR, and Ed Dickson waiting to return. It's easy to look in hindsight and think "We shouldn't have traded Nick Vannett. But at the time, it was a good move.

Pete plays the long game, because it's a long season, and when you are in the playoffs a lot, it takes it's toll. The Seahawks have to make use of ALL of the players on both the Active Roster, and the Practice Squad in order to be good in the 2nd half of the season.

Most other teams give the majority of the snaps to their best players, and when injuries hit, they're play drops off, precipitously. Think San Diego Chargers.

While most everybody knows that depth and experience are important in professional sports, I don't think many place enough importance on them.

 

[John63]

Quote from another thread: "Also, our defense has allowed 176 points." While the topic is legit, we have to be careful about giving too much credence to stats.

As far as 176, wherever that number came from, (nfl.com I beiieve?) they forgot to account for TDs scored by the opposing Defense and Special Teams. It's not all on the defense.

I believe our overall team, including our defense is much better than people think.

First there's the flubs by T2, which should not reflect on the rest of the guys on defense. Even after that 50 yard completion, the Defense only allowed a Field Goal. Had T2 not gotten beat deep, it's very likely the Defense would have gotten off the field with no points scored.

So while the stats are interesting, they leave a lot to be desired. What they don't take in to consideration is that Pete plays A LOT of young guys early, getting them prepared for the second half of the season. That is when this team, Offense and Defense, always picks up the pace and starts outplaying opposing teams.

WHY do Pete's teams play better than others late in the season, because of injuries, and the fact that Pete has already prepared his young players to step in by playing them early. Now some injuries are very difficult to overcome, such as Will Dissly, and Duane Brown. Shuffling the OLine and not having Dissly, Brown, Fluker, and sometimes Iupati available, makes a big difference in how well our offense plays. Plus it takes away George Fant as their extra Tight End. So basically, they're down 3 tight ends with Fant playing Left Tackle, Dissly on IR, and Ed Dickson waiting to return. It's easy to look in hindsight and think "We shouldn't have traded Nick Vannett. But at the time, it was a good move.

Pete plays the long game, because it's a long season, and when you are in the playoffs a lot, it takes it's toll. The Seahawks have to make use of ALL of the players on both the Active Roster, and the Practice Squad in order to be good in the 2nd half of the season.

Most other teams give the majority of the snaps to their best players, and when injuries hit, they're play drops off, precipitously. Think San Diego Chargers.

While most everybody knows that depth and experience are important in professional sports, I don't think many place enough importance on them.

wow it amazes me how quick some come to defend the defense. Don't recall this ever for the offense. That said by any measuring stick the defense is not that good.....yet.

 

[James in PA]

Only on .NET would You find 2 threads next to each other titled: “Our defense is worse than you think” and “Our future is better than you think.” The latter talks about how the defense will improve as the season goes on.

So, is our D WORSE than I think or BETTER than I think??

I think I’m confused!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[justafan]

Quote from another thread: "Also, our defense has allowed 176 points." While the topic is legit, we have to be careful about giving too much credence to stats.

As far as 176, wherever that number came from, (nfl.com I beiieve?) they forgot to account for TDs scored by the opposing Defense and Special Teams. It's not all on the defense.

I believe our overall team, including our defense is much better than people think.

First there's the flubs by T2, which should not reflect on the rest of the guys on defense. Even after that 50 yard completion, the Defense only allowed a Field Goal. Had T2 not gotten beat deep, it's very likely the Defense would have gotten off the field with no points scored.

So while the stats are interesting, they leave a lot to be desired. What they don't take in to consideration is that Pete plays A LOT of young guys early, getting them prepared for the second half of the season. That is when this team, Offense and Defense, always picks up the pace and starts outplaying opposing teams.

WHY do Pete's teams play better than others late in the season, because of injuries, and the fact that Pete has already prepared his young players to step in by playing them early. Now some injuries are very difficult to overcome, such as Will Dissly, and Duane Brown. Shuffling the OLine and not having Dissly, Brown, Fluker, and sometimes Iupati available, makes a big difference in how well our offense plays. Plus it takes away George Fant as their extra Tight End. So basically, they're down 3 tight ends with Fant playing Left Tackle, Dissly on IR, and Ed Dickson waiting to return. It's easy to look in hindsight and think "We shouldn't have traded Nick Vannett. But at the time, it was a good move.

Pete plays the long game, because it's a long season, and when you are in the playoffs a lot, it takes it's toll. The Seahawks have to make use of ALL of the players on both the Active Roster, and the Practice Squad in order to be good in the 2nd half of the season.

Most other teams give the majority of the snaps to their best players, and when injuries hit, they're play drops off, precipitously. Think San Diego Chargers.

While most everybody knows that depth and experience are important in professional sports, I don't think many place enough importance on them.

Im buying it.

 

[Smellyman]

Quote from another thread: "Also, our defense has allowed 176 points." While the topic is legit, we have to be careful about giving too much credence to stats.

As far as 176, wherever that number came from, (nfl.com I beiieve?) they forgot to account for TDs scored by the opposing Defense and Special Teams. It's not all on the defense.

I believe our overall team, including our defense is much better than people think.

First there's the flubs by T2, which should not reflect on the rest of the guys on defense. Even after that 50 yard completion, the Defense only allowed a Field Goal. Had T2 not gotten beat deep, it's very likely the Defense would have gotten off the field with no points scored.

So while the stats are interesting, they leave a lot to be desired. What they don't take in to consideration is that Pete plays A LOT of young guys early, getting them prepared for the second half of the season. That is when this team, Offense and Defense, always picks up the pace and starts outplaying opposing teams.

WHY do Pete's teams play better than others late in the season, because of injuries, and the fact that Pete has already prepared his young players to step in by playing them early. Now some injuries are very difficult to overcome, such as Will Dissly, and Duane Brown. Shuffling the OLine and not having Dissly, Brown, Fluker, and sometimes Iupati available, makes a big difference in how well our offense plays. Plus it takes away George Fant as their extra Tight End. So basically, they're down 3 tight ends with Fant playing Left Tackle, Dissly on IR, and Ed Dickson waiting to return. It's easy to look in hindsight and think "We shouldn't have traded Nick Vannett. But at the time, it was a good move.

Pete plays the long game, because it's a long season, and when you are in the playoffs a lot, it takes it's toll. The Seahawks have to make use of ALL of the players on both the Active Roster, and the Practice Squad in order to be good in the 2nd half of the season.

Most other teams give the majority of the snaps to their best players, and when injuries hit, they're play drops off, precipitously. Think San Diego Chargers.

While most everybody knows that depth and experience are important in professional sports, I don't think many place enough importance on them.

Like every team. Take away those from every team and it looks the same.

 

[cymatica]

Like every team. Take away those from every team and it looks the same.

This.

 

[LTH]

Quote from another thread: "Also, our defense has allowed 176 points." While the topic is legit, we have to be careful about giving too much credence to stats.

As far as 176, wherever that number came from, (nfl.com I beiieve?) they forgot to account for TDs scored by the opposing Defense and Special Teams. It's not all on the defense.

I believe our overall team, including our defense is much better than people think.

First there's the flubs by T2, which should not reflect on the rest of the guys on defense. Even after that 50 yard completion, the Defense only allowed a Field Goal. Had T2 not gotten beat deep, it's very likely the Defense would have gotten off the field with no points scored.

So while the stats are interesting, they leave a lot to be desired. What they don't take in to consideration is that Pete plays A LOT of young guys early, getting them prepared for the second half of the season. That is when this team, Offense and Defense, always picks up the pace and starts outplaying opposing teams.

WHY do Pete's teams play better than others late in the season, because of injuries, and the fact that Pete has already prepared his young players to step in by playing them early. Now some injuries are very difficult to overcome, such as Will Dissly, and Duane Brown. Shuffling the OLine and not having Dissly, Brown, Fluker, and sometimes Iupati available, makes a big difference in how well our offense plays. Plus it takes away George Fant as their extra Tight End. So basically, they're down 3 tight ends with Fant playing Left Tackle, Dissly on IR, and Ed Dickson waiting to return. It's easy to look in hindsight and think "We shouldn't have traded Nick Vannett. But at the time, it was a good move.

Pete plays the long game, because it's a long season, and when you are in the playoffs a lot, it takes it's toll. The Seahawks have to make use of ALL of the players on both the Active Roster, and the Practice Squad in order to be good in the 2nd half of the season.

Most other teams give the majority of the snaps to their best players, and when injuries hit, they're play drops off, precipitously. Think San Diego Chargers.

While most everybody knows that depth and experience are important in professional sports, I don't think many place enough importance on them.

Nice post dude!! I agree with everything you said... stats are an indicator not a product that defines the player as a whole ESPECIALLY in a Carroll coached team...

 

[Jville]

It's healthy to read an enlightened perspective on the process of team building.

I follow this team in large part because it is a very successful player developmental program. Following multiple players working their way down the learning curve is a joy to behold. Results vary but it always provides week to week revelations. And, we are only now beginning to close in on the more popular part of the season ............... the finish.

"I'M IN"

 

[Sgt. Largent]

First there's the flubs by T2, which should not reflect on the rest of the guys on defense. Even after that 50 yard completion, the Defense only allowed a Field Goal. Had T2 not gotten beat deep, it's very likely the Defense would have gotten off the field with no points scored. .

Of course it reflects on the rest of the defense, that's how team sports works..........you are as strong as your weakest link.

Go on any NFL site and look up the defensive stats, we're in the middle to bottom of the league in every defensive category. So take out all the plays and situations that make your argument look better you want, this is still a mediocre defense at best, and mediocre defenses don't win championships. Especially on this team, Pete's predictable schemes on both sides of the ball require elite athletes to compensate.

We've got one at QB, WR and RB, but that's about it. Rest of the roster is mediocre.

 

[Jville]

First there's the flubs by T2, which should not reflect on the rest of the guys on defense. Even after that 50 yard completion, the Defense only allowed a Field Goal. Had T2 not gotten beat deep, it's very likely the Defense would have gotten off the field with no points scored. .

Of course it reflects on the rest of the defense, that's how team sports works..........you are as strong as your weakest link.

Go on any NFL site and look up the defensive stats, we're in the middle to bottom of the league in every defensive category. So take out all the plays and situations that make your argument look better you want, this is still a mediocre defense at best, and mediocre defenses don't win championships. Especially on this team, Pete's predictable schemes on both sides of the ball require elite athletes to compensate.

We've got one at QB, WR and RB, but that's about it. Rest of the roster is mediocre.

The response is but a snap shot in time. An opinion tied to a place in time.

When in fact the OP is describing a process unfolding over time. Team development in motion.

Both valid but both very different perspectives.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

First there's the flubs by T2, which should not reflect on the rest of the guys on defense. Even after that 50 yard completion, the Defense only allowed a Field Goal. Had T2 not gotten beat deep, it's very likely the Defense would have gotten off the field with no points scored. .

Of course it reflects on the rest of the defense, that's how team sports works..........you are as strong as your weakest link.

Go on any NFL site and look up the defensive stats, we're in the middle to bottom of the league in every defensive category. So take out all the plays and situations that make your argument look better you want, this is still a mediocre defense at best, and mediocre defenses don't win championships. Especially on this team, Pete's predictable schemes on both sides of the ball require elite athletes to compensate.

We've got one at QB, WR and RB, but that's about it. Rest of the roster is mediocre.

The response is but a snap shot in time. An opinion tied to a place in time.

When in fact the OP is describing a process unfolding over time. Team development in motion.

Both valid but both very different perspectives.

That's a cop out.

Not sure bout you guys, but my expectations this year after 3-4 straight years full of chaos, disappointment and poor drafting was that we were finally back on track, jettisoned the negative distractions and back to playing Hawk football...........fast, fundamental and physical.

Nope. Nope........and nope.

What I see is a team utterly and completely dependent on it's QB to play perfectly and win games late, even against bad teams. So far the two best teams we've played we've lost to handily, at home.

That's what you expected? THAT'S the process you saw? Sorry dude, this team is not better than I thought, it's worse. So the only change of course for me so far is for me to lower my expectations going forward. T

 

[Jville]

First there's the flubs by T2, which should not reflect on the rest of the guys on defense. Even after that 50 yard completion, the Defense only allowed a Field Goal. Had T2 not gotten beat deep, it's very likely the Defense would have gotten off the field with no points scored. .

Of course it reflects on the rest of the defense, that's how team sports works..........you are as strong as your weakest link.

Go on any NFL site and look up the defensive stats, we're in the middle to bottom of the league in every defensive category. So take out all the plays and situations that make your argument look better you want, this is still a mediocre defense at best, and mediocre defenses don't win championships. Especially on this team, Pete's predictable schemes on both sides of the ball require elite athletes to compensate.

We've got one at QB, WR and RB, but that's about it. Rest of the roster is mediocre.

The response is but a snap shot in time. An opinion tied to a place in time.

When in fact the OP is describing a process unfolding over time. Team development in motion.

Both valid but both very different perspectives.

That's a cop out.

Not sure bout you guys, but my expectations this year after 3-4 straight years full of chaos, disappointment and poor drafting was that we were finally back on track, jettisoned the negative distractions and back to playing Hawk football...........fast, fundamental and physical.

Nope. Nope........and nope.

What I see is a team utterly and completely dependent on it's QB to play perfectly and win games late, even against bad teams. So far the two best teams we've played we've lost to handily, at home.

That's what you expected? THAT'S the process you saw? Sorry dude, this team is not better than I thought, it's worse. So the only change of course for me so far is for me to lower my expectations going forward. T

:177692: I can't help you with outrage. It's not a state of mind I relish.

I am enjoying this team evolving process as it unfolds.

My condolences and best of luck coping ........ :229031_shrug:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

:177692: I can't help you with outrage. It's not a state of mind I relish.

I am enjoying this team evolving process as it unfolds.

My condolences and best of luck coping ........ :229031_shrug:

Not outrage, just disappointment.

We're now in year what, year five? post SB loss and I don't see the talent and development being re-stocked to make another 2-3 year serious run at another SB.

I see a team with a MVP caliber QB that's struggling to put the right pieces around him. Evolving means getting better, so not sure how you see that.

 

[chris98251]

I look at it this way, we had to purge, then rebuild, we have brought in players to help Wilson with drafting O line, F.A. O line, drafting WR's and RB's, we are trying to now bring in the defensive side, not all pieces will work, so we continue to exchange players till they do, even after that we have the Gell period where guys have to get comfortable with the system, each other and the communication between each other.

Saying all that we are also now competing with the other teams drafting and signing our type of players when there was little competition before in the first time around. Throw in one other factor, Pete is not intimately familiar with the players out there now since it has been years since he was getting scouting reports first hand about kids.

It may take a bit longer and there may be more trial and error involved now.

 

[justafan]

First there's the flubs by T2, which should not reflect on the rest of the guys on defense. Even after that 50 yard completion, the Defense only allowed a Field Goal. Had T2 not gotten beat deep, it's very likely the Defense would have gotten off the field with no points scored. .

Of course it reflects on the rest of the defense, that's how team sports works..........you are as strong as your weakest link.

Go on any NFL site and look up the defensive stats, we're in the middle to bottom of the league in every defensive category. So take out all the plays and situations that make your argument look better you want, this is still a mediocre defense at best, and mediocre defenses don't win championships. Especially on this team, Pete's predictable schemes on both sides of the ball require elite athletes to compensate.

We've got one at QB, WR and RB, but that's about it. Rest of the roster is mediocre.

I dont think Pete needs elite athletes to make the system work. They just need to play smart, tough, physical football and do their job.

The SB team was full of players I wouldnt call elite athletes. Sherman was smart and tough as nails but he wasnt an elite athlete. Kam was tough, physical and smart but I wouldnt call him an elite athlete. Take your pick on the other CB they just did the best they could. KJ smart and fundamentally sound. Clemons,Bennett and Avril are not elite. the were good but not elite. Determination and will to get the QB were more their trademark. DTs did there job. Tough and physical.

Oline. Not really. Okung was very talented. TE,tough did his job. WRs werent elite. I dont know if I would even call Lynch an elite athlete. He had amazing determination,toughness, will and outstanding vision.

It was just a bunch smart ,tough ,physical players with the will to win and be great football players. They came together and made history.

 

[hawxfreak]

I see a team with an addition by subtraction ability to get over the hump sooner than later
T2 has had 4 game changing blunders just off the top of my head and the ravens game is the 1st time I can think of this year that our offense was the problem , which , hey,,, it's gonna happen .
I get the feeling we won't be seeing too much of T on the field much the rest of the year so as we've seen in the past pete gives his players more than every chance to lift themselves up off the ground and add to their confidence until they are ready to go break the bank with another team .
On defense we are just a few steps away from getting there and I hope T2 is no longer a starter yet they won't let him go just let him mature before that happens
On offense the loss of Dissly hurt
Move Fant , take away Dissly's playmaking ability , remove our jumbo Running package etc. etc.
Nevertheless we have seen what we're like against a fair amount of man coverage now so we can adjust and go from there and when more guys come back we can pick up where we left off HOPEFULLY
My outlook for this team is arrow up in part because I'm an optimist and in part because we have a good tight end about to return and our backup lineman have done pretty darn well and instead of waiting to see this happen to us in the midst of the wild card round like last year , we got to see it before our bye week and I believe even the coaching staff has higher expectations than they did last year
Go Hawks , oh and TLDR;

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Always interesting to read how many different ways someone looks at the team, and that's fine. I would have a hard time being disappointed in a 5-2 team, and I'll be plenty happy if they win on Sunday and get to 6-2. It's never going to look pretty with this team. Shoot, it often wasn't pretty in the back to back super bowl years. Though this team is much younger and has a lot of improving to do, which I think they will over the next 9 games.
But there certainly are disappointing parts of the team thus far. The Pass rush and pass blocking sticks out, and the lack of fundamental tackling. Those things need to improve w/out a doubt. Getting Brown and Fluke back on that line is critical to their success on offense imo.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

First there's the flubs by T2, which should not reflect on the rest of the guys on defense. Even after that 50 yard completion, the Defense only allowed a Field Goal. Had T2 not gotten beat deep, it's very likely the Defense would have gotten off the field with no points scored. .

Of course it reflects on the rest of the defense, that's how team sports works..........you are as strong as your weakest link.

Go on any NFL site and look up the defensive stats, we're in the middle to bottom of the league in every defensive category. So take out all the plays and situations that make your argument look better you want, this is still a mediocre defense at best, and mediocre defenses don't win championships. Especially on this team, Pete's predictable schemes on both sides of the ball require elite athletes to compensate.

We've got one at QB, WR and RB, but that's about it. Rest of the roster is mediocre.

I dont think Pete needs elite athletes to make the system work. They just need to play smart, tough, physical football and do their job.

The SB team was full of players I wouldnt call elite athletes. Sherman was smart and tough as nails but he wasnt an elite athlete. Kam was tough, physical and smart but I wouldnt call him an elite athlete. Take your pick on the other CB they just did the best they could. KJ smart and fundamentally sound. Clemons,Bennett and Avril are not elite. the were good but not elite. Determination and will to get the QB were more their trademark. DTs did there job. Tough and physical.

Oline. Not really. Okung was very talented. TE,tough did his job. WRs werent elite. I dont know if I would even call Lynch an elite athlete. He had amazing determination,toughness, will and outstanding vision.

It was just a bunch smart ,tough ,physical players with the will to win and be great football players. They came together and made history.

I guess my definition of elite is different than yours. Our SB defense had elite athletes all over it, Pro Bowlers and a couple that are going to be in the HOF........thus why they were one of the greatest defenses in NFL history statistically.

Who on this defense is even a Pro Bowler? Wagner's not even having a good enough year to make the Pro Bowl. Other than that, nothing, just mediocre to slightly above average at every position.

So yes, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but when you play a very simple base defense you better damn well have the elite athletes to make up for being schematically solved by the other team's offensive coordinator very easily, of which we've seen all year.

 

[NOLAHawk]

On the ride in this morning, they were talking on how to beat the patriots. Inside pass Russ and play the full 60 minutes to score or try every possession.

In 2012-2014, the team didn’t try to very possesion but they did use special teams as a way to improve field position when the bevel O couldnt get a 1st to save their life. Run run pass punt Special Teams was the offense. The smothering defense was also an offensive weapon.

They’ve carried the philosophy forward, but bevil kept the offense in RRPP mode without the special teams, and the defense aged or left.

No we have some sort of hybrid that does spectacular and spectacularly dumb things. 3 and 2? Throw for 40. 3 timeouts, call them at the los with 1:2 sec on the clock etc.

The point is that as the defense used to be part of our offense. Our offense needs to be part of the defense. Keep the d off the field. Go for the first. Tape ifedis elbows together. And figure out Special Teams to linknthe two better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

ST is also a position of need here looking past this year. The punter and kicker are meh to okish, and putting your No. 1 offensive asset out there to return is just magnifying the odds of him being injured. But we can't afford not to given our game margins.