Pass rush concerns now that Allen has signed with Bears

[Anonymous]

Gentlemen, can't we all just get along? Crymany!

I think looking at the PR from the perspective of depth, we are no worse for wear than we were at game one last season. There were some big question marks with the FA acquisitions that ended up being just what the doctor ordered. Once coaching developed the rotation andf guys learned their roles, I think we ended up finishing about where we wanted to finish.

It's like when Grandma was feeding you all those spoon-fulls of cod liver oil. At the time it sucked, but when you entered adolescence and you became a sexual Tyrannosaurus, the value of those near-nausea occurrences was worth it.

 

[jblaze]

The pass rush will be better this year. Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett will see their snap counts rise. Avril is entering a contract year. He is going to play like his hair is on fire. Mayowa, Scruggs, and Hill will become breakout players this year. Clemons/Red weren't really giving us a consistent pass rush when they were in the game.

I would be more concerned with how they will stop the run. Red was invaluable at controlling his gap and destroying double teams. It sounds like McDaniel will be asked to adapt to that role in certain situations. How will our LBs adjust to the new defensive line? They may have to shed more blocks than they have the last couple seasons.

The pass rush will be better this year? I'm not sure anyone is agreeing with that one. We've lost several key parts on that line and our replacements are unproven. It's still too early to say for sure with the rest of FA and the draft to go but I think it's safe to say we're worse but how much is debateable.

The one area that does concern me is the OL. Fringe moves in that area so far and any rookie we get will take time to coach up.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Can't we all just get along?

Ok, Rodney we promise.

 

[kearly]

Yeah I'm hoping Mayowa or Scruggs shows up. Although Scruggs looks more like a run stuffing 5T than a speed pass rusher. Would be nice to draft one, perhaps that's the answer!

Draft a DE @ 32!

Who? Dee Ford? Please no. It would be really nice if Seattle gave Schofield a call though. Shaun Phillips was the 2013 equivalent of Raheem Brock. I wouldn't be shocked if Seattle inquires into him after the draft is over. Anthony Spencer's market has been ice cold, I guess two knee surgeries last year will do that. I think Spencer would fit us very nicely though as a rotational LEO or hybrid 3-4 OLB.

I do think we are one small piece away, but I don't think it is in the draft and I don't think it's Irvin until he proves otherwise.

Some think Aaron Donald will be there at 32 and if he is, he's a no brainer. Or possibly Kony Ealy. Either way I think we're better on the DL. I think we need to try to land an elite pass rusher in the draft because we're going to likely lose Avril next year and Bennett the year after. Start home growing those organic guys like we do in the secondary!

Zero chance Aaron Donald gets to #32. Anyone that thinks that is reading some really really old information.

Ealy has some major issues IMO, despite good agility scores in spandex he's pretty stiff on tape and does not have the best repertoire. Not fast enough to be a LEO either (4.77 forty). If we draft a DE at #32, it would probably be Dee Ford, who is basically an even more limited version of Bruce Irvin.

There's three elite pass rushers in this draft. Two of them are top five locks, and the third (Donald) will probably go top 10. The rest of the pass rusher group is very weak and would go mid rounds in almost any other draft class.

BTW, I agree with you that we need to lower expectations for Mayowa. He looked like a preseason hero to me last year. That's really good for a UDFA with his background, but he's nowhere near the level where we should be counting on him even a little. He's just a player to keep an eye on, nothing more.

 

[Anonymous]

Can't we all just get along?

Ok, Rodney we promise.

:mrgreen:

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Isn't it just better to go with OL or WR in the 1st/2nd round and go from there because you're pretty much guaranteed a non reach player?

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Isn't just better to go with OL or WR in the 1st/2nd round and go from there because you're pretty guaranteed a nonreach player?

 

[kearly]

Isn't it just better to go with OL or WR in the 1st/2nd round and go from there because you're pretty much guaranteed a non reach player?

I hate it when people talk about the draft like it is a convenience store for addressing certain positions, but this is correct- WR and OL just happen to be two of the better areas to draft between picks #32 and #64 this year. Luck is on our side.

 

[hawknation2014]

The pass rush will be better this year. Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett will see their snap counts rise. Avril is entering a contract year. He is going to play like his hair is on fire. Mayowa, Scruggs, and Hill will become breakout players this year. Clemons/Red weren't really giving us a consistent pass rush when they were in the game.

I would be more concerned with how they will stop the run. Red was invaluable at controlling his gap and destroying double teams. It sounds like McDaniel will be asked to adapt to that role in certain situations. How will our LBs adjust to the new defensive line? They may have to shed more blocks than they have the last couple seasons.

The pass rush will be better this year? I'm not sure anyone is agreeing with that one. We've lost several key parts on that line and our replacements are unproven. It's still too early to say for sure with the rest of FA and the draft to go but I think it's safe to say we're worse but how much is debateable.

The one area that does concern me is the OL. Fringe moves in that area so far and any rookie we get will take time to coach up.

We had only 44 sacks in 2013. I expect we will have more sacks and overall backfield pressure in 2014. More snaps for Avril/Bennett will mean a better pass rush. These are players who were used to playing almost every snap until last year. And the only reason they didn't last year was because they were still learning the system, and we had Red/Clemons back as returning starters. Now Avril, Bennett, and McDaniel have all gained a year of experience in this system. There is no reason to think they won't be even better this year now that they have that experience of playing together.

Then you have to consider the addition of Mayowa, Scruggs, and Hill to the rotation; all three have the potential to become very good pass rushers in this system. We have our core pass rushers back, plus young pass rushing talent on the roster that is eager to breakout. You can't ask for much more than yet.

Our ability to stop the run against a team like the Niners is a different question. Red played a huge role in shutting down the run. Who fills that role at the five technique is the more immediate issue. And then in 2015 we may have to figure out how to replace Avril's pass rushing.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Isn't it just better to go with OL or WR in the 1st/2nd round and go from there because you're pretty much guaranteed a non reach player?

I hate it when people talk about the draft like it is a convenience store for addressing certain positions, but this is correct- WR and OL just happen to be two of the better areas to draft between picks #32 and #64 this year. Luck is on our side.

I was pointing out OL/WR to be deep then with you saying DE is on the weak side.....

 

[kearly]

Just something worth mentioning- I think we might see some veteran pass rushers stay on the market until June. The NFL's comp pick formula is pretty flawed- players who have a lot of service time and pro-bowls on their resume from years ago are heavy hitters in the formula- for example when we signed Ben Hamilton back in 2011 it cancelled out the shiny pick we would have gotten from Matt Hasselbeck leaving.

So that means if we signed a guy like Spencer or Phillips, it would likely cancel out the pick we'd normally receive from losing Browner or Tate. However, if we sign a veteran pass rusher after June 1st, there is no draft pick penalty (and of course, Schofield was one of our own FAs, so we can just sign him back any time). This might explain why DE John Abraham failed to sign anywhere until June last year.

 

[kearly]

Isn't it just better to go with OL or WR in the 1st/2nd round and go from there because you're pretty much guaranteed a non reach player?

I hate it when people talk about the draft like it is a convenience store for addressing certain positions, but this is correct- WR and OL just happen to be two of the better areas to draft between picks #32 and #64 this year. Luck is on our side.

I was pointing out OL/WR to be deep then with you saying DE is on the weak side.....

I just hate it when people list positions without naming names, as if the draft is some magical goodie bag that will unfailingly fix all our problems. That said, your point about WR/OL is 100% correct.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I totally expect them to sign one or both if possible before training camp. Phillips was good last year with no real support. Didn't see Spencer and Smith was injured. No way we don't at least try to sign one of them.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Isn't it just better to go with OL or WR in the 1st/2nd round and go from there because you're pretty much guaranteed a non reach player?

I hate it when people talk about the draft like it is a convenience store for addressing certain positions, but this is correct- WR and OL just happen to be two of the better areas to draft between picks #32 and #64 this year. Luck is on our side.

I was pointing out OL/WR to be deep then with you saying DE is on the weak side.....

I just hate it when people list positions without naming names, as if the draft is some magical goodie bag that will unfailingly fix all our problems. That said, your point about WR/OL is 100% correct.

Not sure we will go with the obvious or a surprise like Brendin Cooks if he reaches us.

 

[kearly]

Then you have to consider the addition of Mayowa, Scruggs, and Hill to the rotation; all three have the potential to become very good pass rushers in this system.

Every single year we have young, unproven players who do close to jack squat in real games. I'm all for being hopeful, but talking about these guys like they are going to produce for us is no different than saying the M's will win the AL West this year because Smoak, Ackley, and Montero will finally pull their heads out of their asses. I think Scruggs and Mayowa are worth monitoring, and I think Hill will basically be a better version of Craig Terrill. Not a terrible bunch, but I'm not counting on them very much next season. If one of our young guys does break through, my money is on Michael Brooks.

Right now our defensive line has taken a small step back, and I'm not expecting anything too major to be added in the draft this year the way the draft is setting up for Seattle. I thought our pass rush last year was "good enough" but not great, and it genuinely struggled in some games. They cleared the bar, but not with a ton of room to spare. So going backwards even a little has me nervous. And if Avril gets hurt the way the team is currently constructed, things would start to get uncomfortable. I would really like to see us make one more veteran addition, whether it's Schofield, Spencer, Phillips, or some other rotational vet looking to get the Raheem Brock treatment.

 

[kearly]

Not sure we will go with the obvious or a surprise like Brendin Cooks if he reaches us.

I would be surprised if Brandon Cooks reached us, and if he did reach #32 I would not be terribly surprised if Seattle drafted him. PC/JS held onto Brandon Cooks clone Deon Butler for a long time despite him being a total waste of a roster spot.

 

[hawknation2014]

Not sure we will go with the obvious or a surprise like Brendin Cooks if he reaches us.

I would be surprised if Brandon Cooks reached us, and if he did reach #32 I would not be terribly surprised if Seattle drafted him. PC/JS held onto Brandon Cooks clone Deon Butler for a long time despite him being a total waste of a roster spot.

Butler was drafted the year before Pete/Schneider got here, and he simply played out his rookie contract.

He didn't have nearly the production at Penn State that Brandin Cooks had at Oregon State.

128 catches for 1,730 yards and 16 TDs in 2013 for Cooks.

In Butler's best year, he had just 47 catches for 810 yards and 7 TDs. He's not even half the player that Cooks is.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/i ... eon-butler

 

[seatownlowdown]

Not sure we will go with the obvious or a surprise like Brendin Cooks if he reaches us.

I would be surprised if Brandon Cooks reached us, and if he did reach #32 I would not be terribly surprised if Seattle drafted him. PC/JS held onto Brandon Cooks clone Deon Butler for a long time despite him being a total waste of a roster spot.

Butler was drafted the year before Pete/Schneider got here, and he simply played out his rookie contract.

He didn't have nearly the production at Penn State that Brandin Cooks had at Oregon State.

128 catches for 1,730 yards and 16 TDs in 2013 for Cooks.

In Butler's best year, he had just 47 catches for 810 yards and 7 TDs. He's not even half the player that Cooks is.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/i ... eon-butler

not to mention teams were locked in on cooks all season and he still put up ridiculous numbers. cooks is more than just pure speed, look at the tape. hes a PLAYMAKER and teams really have to account for him, wherever he is on the field. it would be uncanny if he fell to 32

 

[niveky]

Without even going into the backups on the roster, one option could be Avril at Clemons' spot on early downs with Bennett on the other side, then on the passing downs, Bennett moves inside, Avril shifts to Bennett's spot while Irvin slides up from SAM to LEO with Smith stepping in at LB for Irvin (assuming Irvin is still the SAM starter over Smith). That's a pretty decent pass rush.

I have been thinking that will happen and that on passing downs they will FEAST.....

 

[hawknation2014]

Without even going into the backups on the roster, one option could be Avril at Clemons' spot on early downs with Bennett on the other side, then on the passing downs, Bennett moves inside, Avril shifts to Bennett's spot while Irvin slides up from SAM to LEO with Smith stepping in at LB for Irvin (assuming Irvin is still the SAM starter over Smith). That's a pretty decent pass rush.

I have been thinking that will happen and that on passing downs they will FEAST.....

Or Benson Mayowa at LEO. . . He was looking like a 22-year-old Chris Clemons during the preseason. Now that he has a year of experience under his belt, he could breakout this year. I would imagine releasing Clemons and low-balling Allen was at least in part related to the potential they saw in Mayowa, in the same way not re-signing Breno was related to the potential they saw in Michael Bowie.

http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/v ... 85a1f10638