Penny

[Largent80]

Shoot, the O Line did a very good job on Monday imo. They were opening some huge holes in the 2nd half. The Vikings knew the Hawks were gonna' run the rock and couldn't stop it.

And Minny supposedly has a good rush defense....Rams have Donald but they are going to get pounded.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I'm loving how seemingly every time they play a team with a "great run D" the Hawks put up 175 to 200 plus yards rushing. You're telling your opponent you are running the ball, try to stop it. And they flat out can't.
Look at the 4th quarter on Monday, that Vikes D was toast. They had no shot of stopping the Hawks run game at the end. Just under 40 minutes of clock eaten up by the Hawks. That's a winning formula.

 

[chris98251]

One other aspect, since we picked up Gordon our running game and Penny especially has improved this can't be coincidence.

 

[hawkfan68]

I'm loving how seemingly every time they play a team with a "great run D" the Hawks put up 175 to 200 plus yards rushing. You're telling your opponent you are running the ball, try to stop it. And they flat out can't.
Look at the 4th quarter on Monday, that Vikes D was toast. They had no shot of stopping the Hawks run game at the end. Just under 40 minutes of clock eaten up by the Hawks. That's a winning formula.

Very good point. I think this was the best the OL played this year collectively. Carson and Penny for the most part were getting at least 2+ yards before contact. It was spectacular. Also, they played really good DL's past few weeks - 49ers, Eagles, and Vikes. Now the Rams are next. I believe they will handle the Rams DL pretty well because of the lines they have played against recently. It only helps the running game continue to flourish.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Rashaad Penny barely doesn't qualify for league leaderboards:

2.7 yards per carry after contact would rank 5th. 5.7 yards per carry overall would rank 2nd in NFL

His biggest obstacle has simply been lack of chances. 29 carries last two games, 36 attempts all year before then...


Im winning the internet. I accept your apologies....

 

[olyfan63]

I expect apologies from half the people on this board.

Bump for Chris98251 and others ... I’m waiting.

Apologize to you for you being consistently wrong, a misinformed, cherry-picking, single-stat frontrunner?
Not to mention your ridiculous attitude that "only you" deal in "facts, baby!"
As if a situationally complex game like football could be reduced to a single stat...
And trolling for an "apology" from others from your wrongness... that's pretty EMOTIONAL from someone who purports to be a "scientist". But comical, so maybe it was your attempt at humor.

A more important stat... 225, not 240. Penny showed Pete he was willing and ready to put in the work to be excellent in this league. I bet he also showed Pete, in practice, a higher level of focus on and commitment to pass-blocking on passing plays. What does 5.9 YPC mean if your pass-block whiff results in a QB fumble turnover and your $30M QB going on IR?

If there's any apology owed, it's from you, for thinking that somehow a single stat is predictive of any meaningful future outcome, and utterly ignoring the human dimension, the situational football dimension, and Penny's growth as a person and player, not to mention the football situational and matchup dimension of what things Penny does well, and what situations he'll have the most success in.

Penny has also shown he is now willing to run hard on inside runs, and get tough yards. Another internal change, inside Penny's head, in his approach to the game. That's huge with Pete, HUGE. It means that Penny simply being in the game doesn't tip the defense that it will probably be an outside run or a pass. Now the defense has to play honest.

The problem with all this? Penny could start reading his own press clippings, decide he's got it made, stop putting in the work, stop bringing the attitude, and regress. Now Penny has to keep proving it, day in and day out in practice, and game in and game out on the field. Carson's been doing that for 3 years now. Penny finally woke up. Personally, I think he will keep putting up strong performances, that he's found his groove, but we shouldn't be surprised when he has occasional "Huh?" games between now and season end. Penny's now learning what it means to be a pro. I like where this is headed, for the whole TEAM.

 

[olyfan63]

One other aspect, since we picked up Gordon our running game and Penny especially has improved this can't be coincidence.

Have you been seeing DK Metcalfs' blocking on running plays?? Especially on some of Penny's running plays? Wowza!! DK stonewalled a Vikings linebacker on one of Penny's nice runs, sealed him to the inside. And DK had another awesome block on one of Penny's short TD runs, I think it was the toss play to the left. Someone had a great video breakdown of it, it was a Twitter video post.

I'm sure Gordon has been blocking awesome too; he wasn't in that clip multiple, multiple times like DK was, and Hollister too, and both of them on multiple nice Penny runs, IIRC.

UPDATE: Found the clip! Credit JVille, he posted this in the Baldy's Film Breakdown thread. JVille was also pointing out Jacob Hollister's run game blocking, noteworthy in both quality and effort, and also on display in this film breakdown.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1201895205709836290[/tweet]

 

[olyfan63]

Rashaad Penny barely doesn't qualify for league leaderboards:
2.7 yards per carry after contact would rank 5th. 5.7 yards per carry overall would rank 2nd in NFL
His biggest obstacle has simply been lack of chances. 29 carries last two games, 36 attempts all year before then...
Im winning the internet. I accept your apologies....

Yes, you've "won the Internet", every bit as much as William Hung "Won American Idol". You've just absolutely got that much talent, just as all the other singers should bow down to William Hung, .NET should bow down to your "greatness". OK, we'll settle for some comic relief.
[youtube]0d5eP0wWLQY[/youtube]

P.S. I'll be ecstatic over Penny's progress when we can feel almost as good about Penny being the single back on 3rd and 1 as we would feel with Carson back there. Compared to 3rd and 1 failures, 3rd and 1 first down rushing conversions sustain drives and lead to much higher probability of a TD at the end of the drive. FACT.
We converted a bunch of them in the Minnesota game. FACT.
A 2 yard run on 3rd and 1 would be bad for Penny's stats, but good for the team and prospects of winning. FACT.

 

[IndyHawk]

Rashaad Penny barely doesn't qualify for league leaderboards:
2.7 yards per carry after contact would rank 5th. 5.7 yards per carry overall would rank 2nd in NFL
His biggest obstacle has simply been lack of chances. 29 carries last two games, 36 attempts all year before then...
Im winning the internet. I accept your apologies....

Yes, you've "won the Internet", every bit as much as William Hung "Won American Idol". You've just absolutely got that much talent, just as all the other singers should bow down to William Hung, .NET should bow down to your "greatness". OK, we'll settle for some comic relief.
[youtube]0d5eP0wWLQY[/youtube]

P.S. I'll be ecstatic over Penny's progress when we can feel almost as good about Penny being the single back on 3rd and 1 as we would feel with Carson back there. Compared to 3rd and 1 failures, 3rd and 1 first down rushing conversions sustain drives and lead to much higher probability of a TD at the end of the drive. FACT.
We converted a bunch of them in the Minnesota game. FACT.
A 2 yard run on 3rd and 1 would be bad for Penny's stats, but good for the team and prospects of winning. FACT.

Lmao.. :lol: :2thumbs:
What a start to my morning.

 

[olyfan63]

Looks like Pete/Schotty finally understand the type of running back Penny is!

It looks that way..Loved that short pass he took in.
I'll be happy that he get his chances from here on out.
No more only one RB..As a pair they are deadly.

Yes you should get him in space and use him in space. I'm surprised it took them almost 2 years to figure that out. Because Pete Carroll is a really great football coach. But it seemed to me they were trying to turn him into Chris Carson. Let Carson be Carson and pound and bang for the tough yards. Let Penny use his speed and quickness in open space. There is nothing wrong with either BTW. It's just different styles of RB which both can be effective and help your team win. Of course you should throw him short passes out in space and let him run for fast yards like the TD he had. He is hugely under utilized by your team in that way IMO. He had great success with that at San Diego State Aztecs. Anything where you can put him in space is great including some short throws.

What you are describing there, IMO, is a 3rd Down Back. I believe Pete's stubbornness was that he needed the O to not be predictable with Penny in the game. Penny needed to enough of a threat inside, on tough inside runs, to make the defense play honest. Penny has started to show that, more and more. Does he have to be amazing, like Carson, running inside? Heck No!! But if Penny wants to play on 1st and 2nd down, he needs to be an inside running *threat* too. And now he is showing that. He was also targeted 5 times in the passing game vs Minny, and caught 4. Carson got 2 targets and caught 1. (The other Carson target was way off target by Russell, under pressure)

So I'm in total agreement with everything you said, except they were NOT, IMO, trying to turn him into Chris Carson, just trying to make him a *competent* NFL-level inside running threat, instead of the "easy out" he had been. As Penny continues to add that to his repertoire, it makes his outside, and in-space running so much more dangerous, because the defense couldn't anticipate and cheat extra bodies outside, knowing that's where the play is going, so Penny will have fewer bodies to navigate through on those, and even more big plays. All for the price of bruising 3 yard runs here and 2 yard runs there.

We also agree Pete Carroll is a really great football coach. The unplanned, but accidentally brilliant part of Penny's (finally!) emergence is that because of his limited use thus far, he has fresh legs, isn't battered and beaten down, for the final month of the season. That little screen Penny took to the house in the 4th quarter? He was the fastest guy on the field on that play, and when he got up a head of steam 8 yards in, the last few Viking defenders seemed to make "business decisions" and stuck out lame arm tackle flail-and-miss as Penny zoomed by. Or maybe Penny was just that fast and the Minny defense that worn down by then. Either explanation works!

P.S., SD49er, really appreciate your viewpoint and contributions from watching Penny's college days! His highlight reel is *amazing*, especially those kickoff returns! Always made me wonder why Hawks didn't stick Penny back there for KO return duty.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Rashaad Penny barely doesn't qualify for league leaderboards:

2.7 yards per carry after contact would rank 5th. 5.7 yards per carry overall would rank 2nd in NFL

His biggest obstacle has simply been lack of chances. 29 carries last two games, 36 attempts all year before then...


Im winning the internet. I accept your apologies....

His biggest obstacle has been himself.



Oh, and I don't think your former sig line of "P-Rich for life" is exactly winning the internet as you called it,

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And shoot, who really cares who was right or wrong? We have TWO good backs now. We can keep those legs fresh, especially Carson. IF one of them gets hurt, we can still run the ball effectively with either guy.

 

[Hawkpower]

I expect apologies from half the people on this board.

Bump for Chris98251 and others ... I’m waiting.

Apologize to you for you being consistently wrong, a misinformed, cherry-picking, single-stat frontrunner?
Not to mention your ridiculous attitude that "only you" deal in "facts, baby!"
As if a situationally complex game like football could be reduced to a single stat...
And trolling for an "apology" from others from your wrongness... that's pretty EMOTIONAL from someone who purports to be a "scientist". But comical, so maybe it was your attempt at humor.

A more important stat... 225, not 240. Penny showed Pete he was willing and ready to put in the work to be excellent in this league. I bet he also showed Pete, in practice, a higher level of focus on and commitment to pass-blocking on passing plays. What does 5.9 YPC mean if your pass-block whiff results in a QB fumble turnover and your $30M QB going on IR?

If there's any apology owed, it's from you, for thinking that somehow a single stat is predictive of any meaningful future outcome, and utterly ignoring the human dimension, the situational football dimension, and Penny's growth as a person and player, not to mention the football situational and matchup dimension of what things Penny does well, and what situations he'll have the most success in.

Penny has also shown he is now willing to run hard on inside runs, and get tough yards. Another internal change, inside Penny's head, in his approach to the game. That's huge with Pete, HUGE. It means that Penny simply being in the game doesn't tip the defense that it will probably be an outside run or a pass. Now the defense has to play honest.

The problem with all this? Penny could start reading his own press clippings, decide he's got it made, stop putting in the work, stop bringing the attitude, and regress. Now Penny has to keep proving it, day in and day out in practice, and game in and game out on the field. Carson's been doing that for 3 years now. Penny finally woke up. Personally, I think he will keep putting up strong performances, that he's found his groove, but we shouldn't be surprised when he has occasional "Huh?" games between now and season end. Penny's now learning what it means to be a pro. I like where this is headed, for the whole TEAM.

I love Carson too, but you are hammering Penny for missing a block, heaping praise on Carson (see bolded above) while completely ignoring that in that same game, Carson fumbled (AGAIN) and on the very next play, didn't even know what play was being run, was looking the other direction when RW tried to hand him the ball, and he fumbled YET AGAIN.

Its ok to be tough on Penny. It's not ok to accuse Penny of being mindless enough to put our star on IR while glossing over Carson's issues as well from the very same game.

Additionally, all of this attitude and weight stuff, while likely true to a certain extent, is after the fact confirmation bias. Most of the guys (maybe not you Oly) hated the pick, period. Hammered away about his skill and that we didn't need him, especially as a reach in the first round. Now that he is showing that his skill is ABSOLUTELY something we need, the narrative for some has changed in order to save pride. Pretending they wanted him all along, they were just upset at his eating and work habits and now they are willing to give him a chance.....now that he is serious...or whatever.

The truth is, we don't really know why he is just now looking better. Maybe you are right. Maybe its all him. Maybe it was lack of opportunity. Maybe its both. But again, I dont think I have ever seen a player get as much abuse for taking a season and change to produce in my life. Penny is being held to a tremendously high bar and we all know why.

Speaking of which, where is the 6 page LJ Collier thread? And that's my point 8)

 

[olyfan63]

I love Carson too, but you are hammering Penny for missing a block, heaping praise on Carson (see bolded above) while completely ignoring that in that same game, Carson fumbled (AGAIN) and on the very next play, didn't even know what play was being run, was looking the other direction when RW tried to hand him the ball, and he fumbled YET AGAIN.

Its ok to be tough on Penny. It's not ok to accuse Penny of being mindless enough to put our star on IR while glossing over Carson's issues as well from the very same game.

Additionally, all of this attitude and weight stuff, while likely true to a certain extent, is after the fact confirmation bias. Most of the guys (maybe not you Oly) hated the pick, period. Hammered away about his skill and that we didn't need him, especially as a reach in the first round. Now that he is showing that his skill is ABSOLUTELY something we need, the narrative for some has changed in order to save pride. Pretending they wanted him all along, they were just upset at his eating and work habits and now they are willing to give him a chance.....now that he is serious...or whatever.

The truth is, we don't really know why he is just now looking better. Maybe you are right. Maybe its all him. Maybe it was lack of opportunity. Maybe its both. But again, I dont think I have ever seen a player get as much abuse for taking a season and change to produce in my life. Penny is being held to a tremendously high bar and we all know why.

Speaking of which, where is the 6 page LJ Collier thread? And that's my point 8)

NO, Actually I'm not hammering on Penny for missing a specific block in pass pro. I haven't seen any video of Penny missing blocks in pass pro. Actually I vaguely recall one play where Penny was supposed to get a chip on an edge rusher as he went out an a route, and he whiffed. IIRC Russell got sacked that play. Schit happens.

I was sharing pass pro concerns as one of several factors, that I, and others, believe were Pete's reasons for limiting Penny's snaps to date. I think Penny's lack of commitment to running inside, and going down too easily, was a bigger factor in why Pete limited Penny's snaps, compared to Carson. The big issue with that? Defenses go, "Penny's in the game! Probably an outside run or a pass!" because they know Penny underperforms (at the time) on running inside.

We don't really have to break out "confirmation bias" thing on the weight and overall commitment thing; Penny himself is on video saying that.

Carson's fumbling and bungling (the play sequence you mentioned) led directly, I'm sure, to Pete & Schotty deciding to give Penny more opportunities vs Philly, and Penny was ready this time and took advantage of his opportunity. Carson certainly got no pass anywhere I've seen. They gave Penny opportunities again vs Minny, and again, Penny was ready, and used his opportunities well. Maybe Pete's been holding him back, and Penny has been ready to shine for a couple months now. Maybe, maybe not. I'm not going to second-guess Pete and Schotty on this one.

Pride? Ha! As if MY opinion or belief on anything has any impact on Seahawk-related outcomes.
FWIW, I've had my sig line about Penny being our 2019 breakout player since September. I've always believed in the pick, especially watching his kickoff return TDs in college. Don't know why Pete didn't use him there when he was getting no running reps. It was harder to keep the faith when Penny went several games in a row with no carries or very unimpressive carries. Kid's learning to be a pro, how to prepare and approach games as a pro, and it's *awesome*. Now we just need Penny to "bring it" consistently, and we can just *enjoy* seeing him play.

What's harder than keeping the faith on Penny? Being a member of the CJ Prosise .NET Fan Club! Prosise got a few snaps at the start of the year, and invisible ever since. Not sure if it's health issue once again, or coach's decision, or what. If Prosise is healthy, maybe Carroll is just saving him so he can go all Timmy Smith on a playoff opponent or two. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-t ... immy-Smith

Looks like there's a new LJ Collier thread, wanna go post a bunch and puff it up to 6 pages? I can't get excited either way right now, just another rook we need to see on the field, and hope he'll show us why the Hawks drafted him. Jarran Reed didn't have 10 sacks his first year either.

 

[sc85sis]

I’m mystified why people think Carson and Penny are an either/or thing. Pete had Bush and White as the lead guys in USC’s championship years and also rotated in Hershel Dennis and Desmond Reed. After Reggie and LenDale left, Pete had ten scholarship RBs at the same time at USC at one point. Each brought something different to the table, and as the season went on Pete needed that depth as guys kept getting injured.

He’s said all along he wants Carson and Penny as a one-two punch. Penny’s recent emergence is a good thing.

 

[DJ_CJ]

glad to see this original post isn’t aging well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[olyfan63]

So we use Penny as a primary part of the game plan and he gets banged up. Penny would have been one of our better weapons against this Rams D. Four weeks out, they think. Leaving us... CJ Prosise. And Travis Homer. Alright guys, show us what you got. CJ, show us why Pete kept you through all the injury woes.

 

[Appyhawk]

How Penny handles this hurdle is a big test for him. He put in the work for 2 yrs and it was on the verge of paying off, then this happens. Such a drag.
I've always thought CJ faced a similar situation. He has on occasion shown a high degree of brilliance, but has also shown he may have issues, not the least of which is maintaining good health...not to mention ball security. Hope he can perform to his potential and avoid the snags. We need him.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

How Penny handles this hurdle is a big test for him. He put in the work for 2 yrs and it was on the verge of paying off, then this happens. Such a drag..........

Agree 100%. He must stay away from Mickey Ds and really put the work in to rehab. That work from everything I've read is monotonous, boring and difficult. We're about to see how badly Rashad Penny wants to be a starter level RB in the NFL.

 

[lukerguy]

The impact of this will be devastating unless CJ Procises can pick up the slack and provide some big play ability (stay healthy). There was a time when CJ was an X factor (when we beat NE at Gillette).

Carson is great for pounding out the game, but the compliment was understated. I don't think Hawks would have beat PHI without Penny. He provided some spark against MINN too.

I am really sad about this one, but 6 weeks ago I hoped we would get a 3rd round pick for him.. funny how things can change so quickly. I need to remember that instead of being so close minded/judgmental of players.


Did anyone say if they were placing him on IR? I've heard 5 weeks is the long end of the timeline for these injuries which would put him at around the first or 2nd playoff game.