Percy Harvin to be unleashed... Deep

[RolandDeschain]

Hyperbole skillet, I'm using that one if you don't mind.

Yeah, I felt clever typing that one out. I plan to accuse people of too much home cookin' in the hyperbole skillet once in a while. :thirishdrinkers:

In all seriousness though, if only there was something we could do to buy Russell a couple of seconds to throw deep to Percy and allowing him to see him more effectively...


+

 

[seahawk12thman]

Some thoughts:

With Lockette, Richardson and Harvin we should be running someone deep every time. When Lockette caught a touchdown pass on Talib he forced him to play soft coverage the rest of the game.
Why is Lockette not being targeted more????

The Hawks pride themselves on dictating to other teams what we do. As Earl Thomas says "it isn't about anybody else", we dictate what we are going to do and we are going to run Lynch down your throat.

Is Norwood on this team??? The Hawks are looking for a physical receivers, why are we not playing this guy? Baldwin is not a number 2 receiver and should be in the game at the slot when Harvin is out, not Walters. But perhaps the whole passing game would open up if we RAN THE STINKING FOOTBALL!! Jermaine Kearse isn't elite and I think can be replaced....

Throwing the ball deep will open up Percy in space and you can tire out defenses throwing it all over the yard.

This offense shouldn't be stopped period. Too much speed and our offensive line is much better minus Okung. Get your head out of your ass Bevell.

 

[mikeak]

Pete wasn't saying that Percy is NOW going to be used deep, he was responding to a reporter's question about Percy's routes.

He's saying they do have deep plays for Percy, because he's too fast NOT to use deep. Just hasn't connected yet.

Have to attempt 'em to complete 'em, and we've barely attempted any deep passes to Percy thus far.

Scratch that, per PFF there have been zero 20+ yard pass targets to Percy, though four 10-19-yard targets.

This is the issue. I believe that one of the problems is that RW isn't throwing the ball if guys aren't open. On deep routes you need to have plays to guys that aren't open. You throw it and then they make their cut and become open.

Secondly you need to throw it deep just so that they respect that play. Overthrow the guy if it isn't there / throw it towards the sidelines where nobody can intercept it but take the incompletion and throw the ball. It will open up the short stuff (look at Patriots yesterday).

I remember when RW set the NCAA passing record for passes without an interception (since beaten by a few others). The commentator said that it wasn't necessarily a good thing. You needed to take some risks. To paraphrase if you are on your 40 yard line and throw a 40 yard pass. Lets say on 20 of those you connect on 8, you have 10 incompletions and you have 2 interceptions. Of those two intereceptions the other team returns one for 10 yards and another for 20 (probably more like 0 and 10).

Wouldn't you take that outcome? On 8 plays you put yourself in the redzone - that should be a minimum of 24 combined points.

On 2 plays you did what is essentially a punt

and on 8 other possessions you may have ended up punting / getting a first down differently

 

[mikeak]

For people killing the coaches for not passing deep to Harvin, do you guys know for a fact that they haven't sent him deep on routes where he was intended to be the #1 read?

Watch Pete's Monday press conference. He seemed agitated at the suggestion that the coaches aren't calling deep plays. They are calling them. The balls aren't getting thrown.

To further this point. Look at the first game of the season. It is very very obvious that RW is looking downfield on many plays just not throwing the ball.

My post above does outline what I think the issue is. If you look at many of the great long completed passes you will clearly see that the receiver is covered when the ball is thrown. Then he makes his cut / changes direction / speeds up or whatever it is and gets to the football. Sure there are some where there is separation before but often if there is to much space then by the time the ball gets there the defense has recovered.

I don't know if it is RW being risk adverse, not trusting the receivers, direction from coaching or just a combination of both but I do truly belive the offensive problems aren't being solved until we go more downfield.

 

[Basis4day]

Some thoughts:

With Lockette, Richardson and Harvin we should be running someone deep every time. When Lockette caught a touchdown pass on Talib he forced him to play soft coverage the rest of the game.
Why is Lockette not being targeted more????

The Hawks pride themselves on dictating to other teams what we do. As Earl Thomas says "it isn't about anybody else", we dictate what we are going to do and we are going to run Lynch down your throat.

Is Norwood on this team??? The Hawks are looking for a physical receivers, why are we not playing this guy? Baldwin is not a number 2 receiver and should be in the game at the slot when Harvin is out, not Walters. But perhaps the whole passing game would open up if we RAN THE STINKING FOOTBALL!! Jermaine Kearse isn't elite and I think can be replaced....

Throwing the ball deep will open up Percy in space and you can tire out defenses throwing it all over the yard.

This offense shouldn't be stopped period. Too much speed and our offensive line is much better minus Okung. Get your head out of your ass Bevell.

You can only have 46 players active on gameday. That's why Norwood isn't playing. Do you really want 7 WR active? Who are you taking off the field?

 

[Hasselbeck]

Since he is saying this (and Bevell is saying we need to get the ball to Lynch more) before we face off against the Rams, I guess we should suspect fewer touches for Marshawn and more bubble screens to Percy eh?

- bsd

:lol:

Pretty much what I was thinking

 

[DavidSeven]

For people killing the coaches for not passing deep to Harvin, do you guys know for a fact that they haven't sent him deep on routes where he was intended to be the #1 read?

Watch Pete's Monday press conference. He seemed agitated at the suggestion that the coaches aren't calling deep plays. They are calling them. The balls aren't getting thrown.

To further this point. Look at the first game of the season. It is very very obvious that RW is looking downfield on many plays just not throwing the ball.

My post above does outline what I think the issue is. If you look at many of the great long completed passes you will clearly see that the receiver is covered when the ball is thrown. Then he makes his cut / changes direction / speeds up or whatever it is and gets to the football. Sure there are some where there is separation before but often if there is to much space then by the time the ball gets there the defense has recovered.

I don't know if it is RW being risk adverse, not trusting the receivers, direction from coaching or just a combination of both but I do truly belive the offensive problems aren't being solved until we go more downfield.

Agreed. "Separation" or lack thereof is not an excuse when you're getting one-on-one coverage down field. Most OCs/QBs are scheming/looking to get one-on-one coverage. If the defense is essentially conceding that coverage to you, then the ball needs to come out. I understand that 70% completion was a point of emphasis for RW this year, but it can't come at the expense of moving the chains.

 

[Ozzy]

I know its been said over and over but the majority of time Russell doesn't have a ton of time to let plays develop. The line needs to do a better job in protection.

 

[jammerhawk]

I just want our WRs to hang onto the ball when they catch it/ it is thrown to them unlike the last few games. Improved pass pro and fewer critical OLine penalties would be a nice thing as well.

Percy long, Percy short doesn't matter as long as the team can move the chains.

Ground n' pound all day then take the deep shots off play action or fly sweep option passes. It matters little (long or short) if the team stays on schedule and matriculates the ball downfield.

 

[StoneCold]

THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN FREAKING SAYING!

He's too damned fast not to use deep! JESUS. Please, make it happen, Pete! Super speed + great hands = NO BRAINER to take deep shots with!

I'm all about that hyperbole...boss. :stirthepot:

SC

 

[seahawk12thman]

Some thoughts:

With Lockette, Richardson and Harvin we should be running someone deep every time. When Lockette caught a touchdown pass on Talib he forced him to play soft coverage the rest of the game.
Why is Lockette not being targeted more????

The Hawks pride themselves on dictating to other teams what we do. As Earl Thomas says "it isn't about anybody else", we dictate what we are going to do and we are going to run Lynch down your throat.

Is Norwood on this team??? The Hawks are looking for a physical receivers, why are we not playing this guy? Baldwin is not a number 2 receiver and should be in the game at the slot when Harvin is out, not Walters. But perhaps the whole passing game would open up if we RAN THE STINKING FOOTBALL!! Jermaine Kearse isn't elite and I think can be replaced....

Throwing the ball deep will open up Percy in space and you can tire out defenses throwing it all over the yard.

This offense shouldn't be stopped period. Too much speed and our offensive line is much better minus Okung. Get your head out of your ass Bevell.

You can only have 46 players active on gameday. That's why Norwood isn't playing. Do you really want 7 WR active? Who are you taking off the field?

Kearse, what has he done to earn playing time this year?? 5 GP 11 catches 168yards..

33.6 yards a game from your number 1 outside receiver. It's not like the Hawks haven't looked to pass. I think the Hawks need to give Norwood (4.4 speed, 6'2) at least a look. He was targeted 7 times last week and came up with a whopping 3 catches.

 

[brimsalabim]

I just read that Percy is Questionable so maybe Norwood gets his shot vs the Rams?

 

[seahawk12thman]

I just read that Percy is Questionable so maybe Norwood gets his shot vs the Rams?

I was watching some tape of last years game and Baldwin was best when he was in the slot. Harvin was interchangeable and would play the outside. We could do more bubble screens last year because Tate was such a great blocker, we do not have that blocker this year. Baldwin is not an outside receiver. Rotate Doug and Harvin and put some new blood on the outside. Lockette should be targeted much more.

 

[Jacknut16]

Pete wasn't saying that Percy is NOW going to be used deep, he was responding to a reporter's question about Percy's routes.

He's saying they do have deep plays for Percy, because he's too fast NOT to use deep. Just hasn't connected yet.

Have to attempt 'em to complete 'em, and we've barely attempted any deep passes to Percy thus far.

Scratch that, per PFF there have been zero 20+ yard pass targets to Percy, though four 10-19-yard targets.

This is the issue. I believe that one of the problems is that RW isn't throwing the ball if guys aren't open. On deep routes you need to have plays to guys that aren't open. You throw it and then they make their cut and become open.

Secondly you need to throw it deep just so that they respect that play. Overthrow the guy if it isn't there / throw it towards the sidelines where nobody can intercept it but take the incompletion and throw the ball. It will open up the short stuff (look at Patriots yesterday).

I remember when RW set the NCAA passing record for passes without an interception (since beaten by a few others). The commentator said that it wasn't necessarily a good thing. You needed to take some risks. To paraphrase if you are on your 40 yard line and throw a 40 yard pass. Lets say on 20 of those you connect on 8, you have 10 incompletions and you have 2 interceptions. Of those two intereceptions the other team returns one for 10 yards and another for 20 (probably more like 0 and 10).

Wouldn't you take that outcome? On 8 plays you put yourself in the redzone - that should be a minimum of 24 combined points.

On 2 plays you did what is essentially a punt

and on 8 other possessions you may have ended up punting / getting a first down differently

Very true, Wilson usually doesnt throw unless he sees a WR coming open , and doesnt thow much into tight windows because he is so good at buying time and finding a more open WR

But there will come a time where he will have to throw into tight windows, stand strong in the pocket and deliver great passes with a defender right under his chin, which is exactly where he has disadvantages when compared to bigger QBs.

His strength is making the read right away and hitting from the pocket if he sees something, or buying time with his legs.

His weakness is standing strong in the pocket and continuing to progress through reads and making tight passes to covered WRs. He simply bails out long before this is an option.

 

[Basis4day]

Kearse, what has he done to earn playing time this year?? 5 GP 11 catches 168yards..

33.6 yards a game from your number 1 outside receiver. It's not like the Hawks haven't looked to pass. I think the Hawks need to give Norwood (4.4 speed, 6'2) at least a look. He was targeted 7 times last week and came up with a whopping 3 catches.

I'd be more convinced if any of the WRers were standing out. Kearse's numbers are comparable to Baldwin's at the moment so I if you're going to sit one you could make the argument to sit the other. Choosing to sit Kearse seems like a bit of a overreaction to one game. You could say Baldwin has value in the slot, but that would advocate Baldwin's for last years contributions without giving the same benefit to Kearse.

Now if you want to sit Richardson for Norwood i could entertain that.

It might be moot at this point. There are 5 injured scratches this weekend and its going to come down to Willson and Harvin's availability. That gives you your pick from Richardson/Norwood/Michael for that final spot on the 46 if you assume the others can go. If both Willson and Harvin are out then all three will be active by default.

 

[Largent80]

I want to see new blood and hope all 3 of them get on the roster this week.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Now if you want to sit Richardson for Norwood i could entertain that..

How can you sit someone who isn't playing?

 

[Anthony!]

Pete wasn't saying that Percy is NOW going to be used deep, he was responding to a reporter's question about Percy's routes.

He's saying they do have deep plays for Percy, because he's too fast NOT to use deep. Just hasn't connected yet.

Have to attempt 'em to complete 'em, and we've barely attempted any deep passes to Percy thus far.

Scratch that, per PFF there have been zero 20+ yard pass targets to Percy, though four 10-19-yard targets.

This is the issue. I believe that one of the problems is that RW isn't throwing the ball if guys aren't open. On deep routes you need to have plays to guys that aren't open. You throw it and then they make their cut and become open.

Secondly you need to throw it deep just so that they respect that play. Overthrow the guy if it isn't there / throw it towards the sidelines where nobody can intercept it but take the incompletion and throw the ball. It will open up the short stuff (look at Patriots yesterday).

I remember when RW set the NCAA passing record for passes without an interception (since beaten by a few others). The commentator said that it wasn't necessarily a good thing. You needed to take some risks. To paraphrase if you are on your 40 yard line and throw a 40 yard pass. Lets say on 20 of those you connect on 8, you have 10 incompletions and you have 2 interceptions. Of those two intereceptions the other team returns one for 10 yards and another for 20 (probably more like 0 and 10).

Wouldn't you take that outcome? On 8 plays you put yourself in the redzone - that should be a minimum of 24 combined points.

On 2 plays you did what is essentially a punt

and on 8 other possessions you may have ended up punting / getting a first down differently

Very true, Wilson usually doesnt throw unless he sees a WR coming open , and doesnt thow much into tight windows because he is so good at buying time and finding a more open WR

But there will come a time where he will have to throw into tight windows, stand strong in the pocket and deliver great passes with a defender right under his chin, which is exactly where he has disadvantages when compared to bigger QBs.

His strength is making the read right away and hitting from the pocket if he sees something, or buying time with his legs.

His weakness is standing strong in the pocket and continuing to progress through reads and making tight passes to covered WRs. He simply bails out long before this is an option.

And yet he has shown he can do that exact thing numerous times, the issue is Rw has been given orders low risk no TO. Until they allow him rope to take chances this is the way it will be.

 

[seahawk12thman]

Kearse, what has he done to earn playing time this year?? 5 GP 11 catches 168yards..

33.6 yards a game from your number 1 outside receiver. It's not like the Hawks haven't looked to pass. I think the Hawks need to give Norwood (4.4 speed, 6'2) at least a look. He was targeted 7 times last week and came up with a whopping 3 catches.

I'd be more convinced if any of the WRers were standing out. Kearse's numbers are comparable to Baldwin's at the moment so I if you're going to sit one you could make the argument to sit the other. Choosing to sit Kearse seems like a bit of a overreaction to one game. You could say Baldwin has value in the slot, but that would advocate Baldwin's for last years contributions without giving the same benefit to Kearse.

Now if you want to sit Richardson for Norwood i could entertain that.

It might be moot at this point. There are 5 injured scratches this weekend and its going to come down to Willson and Harvin's availability. That gives you your pick from Richardson/Norwood/Michael for that final spot on the 46 if you assume the others can go. If both Willson and Harvin are out then all three will be active by default.

Baldwin isn't a #1 so comparing the two is apples and oranges. Baldwin is a proven slot player, Kearse has been an effective role player but not a proven starter. Tate played the slot in Harvin's absence and outperformed Kearse in yardage and completions; Kearse is not a number 1 receiver. I keep hearing superbowl but Denver's secondary was garbage that game. They were missing Chris Harris and Champ Bailey was finished.

Baldwin can get his touches substituting for Harvin in the slot. Those two can be awesome or putting Percy outside with Baldwin inside.

 

[Rat]

He better hope Geno Smith improves his deep arm.