Pete Carroll and his BONEHEAD moves.

[jake206]

Pete Carroll also made some brilliant moves... Who would have thought to go for it with Chris Matthews TD at Superbowl halftime with less than 10 seconds left?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...er-bowl-xlix-with-td-in-final-seconds-of-half

 

[BlackandGolden]

This is what happens in today's era of rapid coaching changes, sports shows, radio, internet, fan forums etc., when an NFL coach makes gutsy calls. Those kinds of coaches making a failed gutsy call comes with the territory, but coaches that win Super Bowls and are the most successful are usually the ones not afraid the lay it on the line.

 

[titan3131]

I disagree that the gutsy calls and the bone headed are one and the same.

Ivotuk said it very well. I think that pete has a tendency to over think things too much. Where alot of times there is no need to break from the norm.

In a way the idea of trying to outsmart the opponents coach could be interpreted in not giving his players the chance to win the way we usually play. And thats what hurts most about the SB call, and while he was the patriots coach a similar thing he threw for some reason and a interception happened.

Complexity has its place but when the money is on the line I would prefer to stick to our bread and butter and let the players decide the result of the play.

 

[dusktreader]

Look, without Pete's style of "BONEHEAD moves" we would never have even sniffed the super bowl last year or the year before. There's so many examples of him taking a risk at the perfect time and it turning into gold. You really don't have to look any farther back than the 2014 NFCCG...you know, the game right before XLIX?

You could talk about going for 2 and then the on-side kick. Both of those were a bit risky. There were also several failing drives with questionable play calls that made things more difficult for the 'Hawks. But, really, this whole conversation should just go away based on one play.

No 'Big Balls' Pete, no super bowl appearances since 2005.

 

[Sports Hernia]

His biggest flaw is he trusts his craptastic OC too much......... Other than that it's hard 2 bitch about back to back super appearances.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

2nd half boneheaded drives.

Seattle at 11:32 SEA SDG
1st and 10 at SEA 20 (11:32) PENALTY on SEA-Z.Miller, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 20 - No Play. 14 20
1st and 15 at SEA 15 (11:32) (Shotgun) R.Lockette right end to SEA 17 for 2 yards (R.Marshall).
2nd and 13 at SEA 17 (10:51) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to M.Lynch to SEA 25 for 8 yards (E.Weddle, M.Gilchrist).
3rd and 5 at SEA 25 (10:01) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short left. Penalty on SEA-Z.Miller, Offensive Pass Interference, declined.

Seattle at 3:04 SEA SDG
1st and 10 at SEA 11 (3:04) (Shotgun) P.Harvin left end to SEA 5 for -6 yards (S.Wright). 21 27
2nd and 16 at SEA 5 (2:25) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to M.Lynch to SEA 9 for 4 yards (M.Ingram, M.Gilchrist).
Two-Minute Warning
3rd and 12 at SEA 9 (2:00) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to M.Lynch to SEA 10 for 1 yard (D.Stuckey).
Timeout #2 by SEA at 01:51.
4th and 11 at SEA 10 (1:51) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete deep right to J.Kearse. PENALTY on SEA-Z.Miller, Personal Foul, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 10.

I think these drives were dumb play calls.

WE ARE BLESSED TO HAVE CARROLL.

I am just asking for peoples thoughts on why these moments happen.

Why do offensive penalties happen to push your offense into obvious passing plays? idk, ask any coach that, cause I'm sure he'd love to have the magic elixer to stop dumb penalties.

Listing two drives out of entire seasons to make a point is again dumb, if you want to criticize Pete for not running the ball you're talking to the wrong fans. We run the ball more than anyone in the league, so I'm not sure what your deal is taking that stance.

If you dont remember this was the time where we had burned GB with harvin and it didnt work against SD, all those screens and gadget plays were flopping terribly. So you dont think that it was dumb to run a jet sweep with LOCKETTE when it hadnt worked earlier with a better player in harvin, I would have preferred anything to that.

and then the final drive started with harvin opening the drive and losing 6 yards. When did we run ML last and lose 6 yards?

Harvin was a bust we all agree. All I am saying is that Carroll has had big moment failures with different staffs, and he took credit for the SB so he is responsible for his staff now and their decisions.

First of all,

The SD game was played in extreme heat conditions. Once Harvin was traded we learned that he flat out refused to play in the SD, he probably wilted in the heat faster than everyone else being the prima Donna headache he was. Likely after his long shouldn't have been TD run. So you have an OC who tailored his game plan around Harvin, and that specific player playing half-passed or refusing to play at all.

It explained why Walters was running screens and how the offense in whole was all of a mess. Conflicts don't do we'll with 120 degree heat bearing down on you.

And it wasn't just Harvin, the whole team just wasn't as conditioned to handle those temps and they wilted in that circumstance.

But the same issues in that game, repeated itself in the Dallas game. Harvin half assing it or refusing to play. Again it threw a wrench in the gears and tempers flared on the sideline.

I saw a team fall victim to it's own arrogance, a team that would start the season 3-3.

But I also saw a team where Carroll allowed the players to speak for themselves And rise up in thier own way, that team went 9-1 in the regular season. That team went back to the SB.


And they probably didn't deserve to, go back to the Championship game, but from the bottom up this team is resilient to it's core, and they only understand winning. Losing to them has become the biggest insult anyone say or do. You don't let your brothers down, not on the Seahawks.

That culture is all Pete Carroll and the philosophy he built.

What coach isn't flawed, what coach doesn't make a mistake every now and then. But it's the best coaches who strengthen thier flaws and who learn from thier mistakes.

Pete isn't the best strategist but he knows what he's doing. He puts the game in the hands of his players. Most times his players execute in those situations. Sometimes the other team makes the better play. Welcome to Football.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

I disagree that the gutsy calls and the bone headed are one and the same.

Ivotuk said it very well. I think that pete has a tendency to over think things too much. Where alot of times there is no need to break from the norm.

In a way the idea of trying to outsmart the opponents coach could be interpreted in not giving his players the chance to win the way we usually play. And thats what hurts most about the SB call, and while he was the patriots coach a similar thing he threw for some reason and a interception happened.

Complexity has its place but when the money is on the line I would prefer to stick to our bread and butter and let the players decide the result of the play.

Sugar coat it all you want: but a bonehead call more or less is just a gutsy call that failed.

 

[titan3131]

I disagree that the gutsy calls and the bone headed are one and the same.

Ivotuk said it very well. I think that pete has a tendency to over think things too much. Where alot of times there is no need to break from the norm.

In a way the idea of trying to outsmart the opponents coach could be interpreted in not giving his players the chance to win the way we usually play. And thats what hurts most about the SB call, and while he was the patriots coach a similar thing he threw for some reason and a interception happened.

Complexity has its place but when the money is on the line I would prefer to stick to our bread and butter and let the players decide the result of the play.

Sugar coat it all you want: but a bonehead call more or less is just a gutsy call that failed.

Pete's gutsy calls tend to make sense though. 4th down calls. Fakes. Special teams exploits (Dallas game) 2 point conversions, ect ect I wouldnt call any of these boneheaded, risk big win big.

His boneheaded calls tend to be a bad play call of some kind. SCREENS to walters, the sweep with lockette, not rumning lynch, calls that are predicable and rarely work.

Now as a player I bet that anyone of them in the SB would have bet $ on Lynch getting in the end zone, or a read option, and if it failed at least you failed doing your best. Instead of your 4th string wr with the game on the line.

 

[mikeak]

Going for it on 4th down isn't bad just because it failed. You have to analyze the situation and the play to determine if it was a bad call prior to knowing the result.

My point is - the superbowl pass was bad. It wasn't bad because it was a pass but because it was an empty backfield.

So you can't just go into three plays that went wrong and say - see the outcome is bad.

IMHO - Bellicheck's decision not to take a time-out was bad coaching. The outcome is irrelevant - it was bad and it worked out for him.

Just like watching basketball and seeing a heavily contested 3 from way out go in - still doesn't make it a good decision.....

 

[bjboywonder]

I AGREE! WHAT A "BONEHEAD"! So many "Bonehead" moves! My God! Those back to back super bowl appearances, starting a third round rookie instead of the "sure thing" winner we paid a bunch of money for, man the list goes on and on! :sarcasm_off:

 

[kearly]

I see Carroll as being a bit of an idiot savant. He makes more than his share of boneheaded mistakes, but makes up for it with utter genius in other areas. The two are interconnected. Though the ending to the SB sucked, there have been many inexplicable and ballsy moments where Pete took huge risks to win huge games. The two previous NFCCGs for example.

It would be really nice if XLIX was an isolated incident. But it probably won't be. We'll probably lose postseason games on similar stuff in the future. But I also feel very confident that he'll be hoisting more Lombardis too.

 

[StoneCold]

2nd half boneheaded drives.

Seattle at 11:32 SEA SDG
1st and 10 at SEA 20 (11:32) PENALTY on SEA-Z.Miller, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 20 - No Play. 14 20
1st and 15 at SEA 15 (11:32) (Shotgun) R.Lockette right end to SEA 17 for 2 yards (R.Marshall).
2nd and 13 at SEA 17 (10:51) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to M.Lynch to SEA 25 for 8 yards (E.Weddle, M.Gilchrist).
3rd and 5 at SEA 25 (10:01) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short left. Penalty on SEA-Z.Miller, Offensive Pass Interference, declined.

Seattle at 3:04 SEA SDG
1st and 10 at SEA 11 (3:04) (Shotgun) P.Harvin left end to SEA 5 for -6 yards (S.Wright). 21 27
2nd and 16 at SEA 5 (2:25) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to M.Lynch to SEA 9 for 4 yards (M.Ingram, M.Gilchrist).
Two-Minute Warning
3rd and 12 at SEA 9 (2:00) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to M.Lynch to SEA 10 for 1 yard (D.Stuckey).
Timeout #2 by SEA at 01:51.
4th and 11 at SEA 10 (1:51) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete deep right to J.Kearse. PENALTY on SEA-Z.Miller, Personal Foul, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 10.

I think these drives were dumb play calls.

WE ARE BLESSED TO HAVE CARROLL.

I am just asking for peoples thoughts on why these moments happen.

I won't get into the is it a dumb play call or not, but as to why it happens? Sometimes the vision of the coach or the athlete just doesn't happen the way they think it will. You have to look at the process they use to get the result. I think Pete's hit's are high enough that he gets the benefit of the doubt when it doesn't work out. You will have a hard time working up much energy for this topic when we've been to back to back SB's. I will only be concerned when it happens more often than not.

SC

 

[SirTed]

What a dumb OP.

How about the decision to go for the TD at the end of the half with 7 seconds remaining? That was pretty boneheaded, right?

Except it worked. Sometimes you gamble big, and win. Sometimes you gamble big and lose. I don't want Pete to change at all.

Does anyone else remember the Hawks went for it on 4th and 7 in slight plus territory against the 9ers 2 years ago? That was insane. Granted, the kicker was a little hesitant, but he could have easily punted.

 

[Largent80]

[youtube]13gxhHYPuko[/youtube]

 

[jammerhawk]

With good comes the occasional bad, deal with it.

I am actually fond of "Big balls Pete" as he was known at USC, go big or go home. I love his style of going for it when he can. Sometimes it doesn't work but when it does it usually works well.

Does this mean I liked the play of death from the 1? Nope, and upon reflection I think he'd do things differently if given a do over. Ultimately sometimes you win and sometimes you don't, that was a painful maximum fail. However that the team was on the 1 with the ball on 2nd down and 31 seconds to play to get the lead needs to be factored in to how successful the plays called were before that ill fated disaster happened.

Without a doubt Pete is the best coach the team has ever had, objectively viewed he's has the most success in the shortest time.. The team will continue to succeed with him here. Everyone screws up from time to time, and that play was a doozy.

Let's focus on the upcoming season and reflect how the team has become a perennial post season competitor.

 

[HommyHawk]

Cue bonecrusher please.

 

[Hasselbeck]

This thread needs a warning sign

 

[Jville]

Someone should ask ............. who is making the "BONEHEAD" call?

Is it the target of the accusation or the source?

Is it possible the sources of such accusations have an imperfect understanding of the moves, the process, the calls and the outcomes that unfolded in front of our eyes?

Is it possible that the source simply fails to acknowledge excellent decision making and play of opponents and their impact on the game and it's outcome?

Do we sometimes struggle with handling the reality of our disappointments?

Do we sometimes look for fall guys as a band aid?

I'm not buying into a characterization of Pete Carroll as an architect of repetitive bonehead moves.

 

[Seahawks1983]

Name a single coach in football history that has never made a bad decision.

 

[Throwdown]

Cue bonecrusher please.

Your wish is my command

[youtube]ryIjCkw3Jfg[/youtube]