Pete Carroll needs to go

[DJ_CJ]

Anyone flaming Carrol on this are also ones thought we wouldn’t make the playoffs this year at the beginning of the season. Be gone. Odds stacked right now but Jesus Christ on a bicycle son’t be so much of a fair weather. We were punting on this game coming in, no excuse for poor play but good lord and unfortunately intensified by awful injuries.


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[Spin Doctor]

Anyone flaming Carrol on this are also ones thought we wouldn’t make the playoffs this year at the beginning of the season. Be gone. Odds stacked right now but Jesus Christ on a bicycle son’t be so much of a fair weather. We were punting on this game coming in, no excuse for poor play but good lord and unfortunately intensified by awful injuries.


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The Cardinals still outscored us with their backup QB, freaking Hundley. How mental gymnastics do you need to do to explain away this game? Injuries are not an excuse here.

Carroll was the reason we lost this game, plain and simple. The initial game plan was excellent, a perfect mix of pass and run. We were integrating short passes, and changing the tempo. The Cardinals didn't know which way we were going to hit them. What happened afterwards? Pete ball. We decided to throw that game plan in the fire and go with something that doesn't work

The Seahawks turned back to forcing the deep ball with an offensive line that couldn't hold. They weren't even trying to hide the fact that they were blitzing us, and we continued to come at them with the same approach. Even when Carson and Procise went down Homer still was moving the ball when we weren't running into straight up run blitzes. To make things worse we were running into the spot where we were missing our starters (which is where they were attacking us). I don't think this was a Schotty deal, this looked like a Pete Carroll offense through and through.

The play calling on both sides was trash, and it was only making things worse, like throwing gasoline on a fire. I'm seeing this more and more, coaching decisions costing us games. Really blatant, and obvious errors. A refusal to stick with what is working for us.

We're never winning a Super Bowl, or even sniffing an NFC Championship again under Pete Carroll. At this stage in his career, Carroll is Marty Schottenheimer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_ball Sound like anyone you know?

 

[olyfan63]

I once coached 3 indoor youth soccer teams in the same league. Two were my daughters teams, one year apart, and one was a catchall team of random players who signed up due to a league admin random foulup. Same coach, same practices (with adjustments for player skill level). So the younger daughter's team played the catchall team. I put my team manager in charge of rotations of my daughter's team, and devoted ALL my game-time coaching energy to the catchall team. Well, the game amounted to my coachless-for-the-day younger daughter's team scoring nearly at will against my catchall team. I worked as hard as I could, in-game, to put the catchall team in position to have any success at all, even though those players were one to two years older, bigger, faster than my daughter's team. May as well have been spitting in the ocean. The catchall players were not far enough along in their development for my in-game efforts, "adjustments" to matter much.

I almost wonder if that's how it felt for Pete, Schotty, and Norton today as player after player went down. Our "JV" defense actually did a commendable job, all things considered. Our offense though... ouch! I am wondering if, with so many O-Line players playing out of position, if it was simply not feasible for Schotty to do anything other that TRY to get them to successfully run basic plays, and to avoid getting Russell killed. I mean, watch that sack where LT Jamarco Jones steps aside, inside, to allow Chandler Jones an uncontested immediate path to go sack Russell Wilson. Oops. With a week of practice of whatever combo of players are available, I am sure it HAS TO look better against the Niners. Hopefully it can't get worse. So, as awful as it was to watch, possibly Schotty gets a pass this one time.

Anyway, so I did make progress with the catchall team, and they improved and made every other game close (except against the other daughters team) and even tied a couple experienced teams at the end of the season.

I confess, prior to the win at SF, I did not see how the Hawks could pull it off. As it turned out, it was Diggs and Clowney who were key, along with a good game plan on both sides of the ball. So, give Pete and Schotty a week to prepare, and let's see what miracles they can work.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

You don't fire Pete, but some changes need to be made to help him going forward in his 70's. He has way too much on his plate at this juncture.

-Strip Pete of final say on personnel power. He still has the ability of course to give his input as the head coach, but JS has final say on personnel going forward, not Pete.

-Give full offensive control to Schotty, if Pete doesn't trust him fully in that role than Pete can hire an OC he can trust in that position. Pete shouldn't be meddling with the offense at this stage, he has a defense that desperately needs his expertise, and full attention. It is frankly, and clearly, a distraction for Pete.

-Pete focuses on defense, and HC responsibilities only. I think Pete is great at building a culture, and instilling the right attitude in his players. Let him focus on that, along with getting his defense right.

-Pete goes to school on situational football in the off-season, and has a plan when those situations come up in the games instead of flying by the seat of his pants, burning timeouts, taking delay of games, because he doesn't know what to do in the heat of the moment. John Harbaugh has a mid-twenties analytics guy in his ear on 4th downs as an example, and he is making him look like a genius. Pete has some "yes" men instead and doesn't really listen to them. It is chaos.

These changes would give the Seahawks the best of what Pete offers, and shields the Seahawks from his deficiencies, at his rapidly advancing age.

If Pete is a team guy he will agree to these changes. If not then, Pete definitely has to go. It's only going to get worse. People don't get better in their 70's with that much on their plate. They either continue to get worse, or they crash and burn like Tom Coughlin. Getting better is not realistic. He needs to delegate more, and be stripped of some of his responsibilities. In a more focused role he can definitely be better.

It's all pretty much moot anyway as I don't see him coaching for much longer. I will be very surprised if he is still coaching in 4 years. I would set the over/under @ 3.5 and I would take the under.

Solid post!

Although, I’ll be honest, I can’t see Pete releasing any control of the team.

His over inflated ego won’t let him.

He wanted the team to be Wilson led but his philosophy does not allow Wilson to make the most out of Wilson’s talents.

The offensive line is clearly built to run block but now when the run does not work, there are no alternatives and even the coaching and play call does not make up for any deficiencies.

Carroll only does what he knows and unfortunately it may be time to acknowledge that the game has passed Carroll.

His tiresome, “You can’t win in the first quarter...” blah blah...is total BS!

You can damn sure lose the game especially calling them and not making adjustments as he predictably does snap after snap and week after week.

Losing a game is one thing but damn, this guy, clearly does not see and does not want to see what he absolutely sucks at!

The game has passed Carroll over.

His predictability is well known in the league.

If Seattle can’t run the ball, and Wilson does not have any protection Seattle coaches do NOT adjust.

 

[HawksSoc]

You're the same person who started the 'Trade wagner' and 'Fire Norton and Schottenheimer' threads :lol: Think you need to relax chief.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

You're the same person who started the 'Trade wagner' and 'Fire Norton and Schottenheimer' threads :lol: Think you need to relax chief.

Well if you want to accept that this team is going in the wrong direction then that’s your call.

Cause whether or not you want to believe it, it’s damn true.

 

[HawksSoc]

You're the same person who started the 'Trade wagner' and 'Fire Norton and Schottenheimer' threads :lol: Think you need to relax chief.

Well if you want to accept that this team is going in the wrong direction then that’s your call.

Cause whether or not you want to believe it, it’s damn true.

And to fix said wrong direction, you want to sack the HC, the OC and the DC, thereby sending us into the playoffs with no coaching? Along with trading the D's best player in the offseason? I agree Pete could do with modernising a little, but 11-4 teams don't tend to hit the reset button. I know how bad yesterday was, I was up till 1am my time watching it, but blowing it all up isn't the answer.

 

[bmorepunk]

In the NFL you’re only as good as the last game you played.

It doesn’t matter what you previously done.

This is a terrible posture to have.

Kraft should have fired Belechick after those two straight losses. I mean, you're only as good as your last game. I can't believe they even gave him a chance after that first loss.

Lol when was the last SB win for Belexhick? Last year, when was ours..6 years ago. Huge difference. In fact since we won our SB Belichick has won 3.

That Super Bowl? 16 games ago for the Patriots. If you're only as "good as your last game" and the past doesn't matter, who cares if you won a Super Bowl then go on to lose your first game of the next season? You're only as good as your last game, apparently.

 

[Ozzy]

You don't fire Pete, but some changes need to be made to help him going forward in his 70's. He has way too much on his plate at this juncture.

-Strip Pete of final say on personnel power. He still has the ability of course to give his input as the head coach, but JS has final say on personnel going forward, not Pete.

-Give full offensive control to Schotty, if Pete doesn't trust him fully in that role than Pete can hire an OC he can trust in that position. Pete shouldn't be meddling with the offense at this stage, he has a defense that desperately needs his expertise, and full attention. It is frankly, and clearly, a distraction for Pete.

-Pete focuses on defense, and HC responsibilities only. I think Pete is great at building a culture, and instilling the right attitude in his players. Let him focus on that, along with getting his defense right.

-Pete goes to school on situational football in the off-season, and has a plan when those situations come up in the games instead of flying by the seat of his pants, burning timeouts, taking delay of games, because he doesn't know what to do in the heat of the moment. John Harbaugh has a mid-twenties analytics guy in his ear on 4th downs as an example, and he is making him look like a genius. Pete has some "yes" men instead and doesn't really listen to them. It is chaos.

These changes would give the Seahawks the best of what Pete offers, and shields the Seahawks from his deficiencies, at his rapidly advancing age.

If Pete is a team guy he will agree to these changes. If not then, Pete definitely has to go. It's only going to get worse. People don't get better in their 70's with that much on their plate. They either continue to get worse, or they crash and burn like Tom Coughlin. Getting better is not realistic. He needs to delegate more, and be stripped of some of his responsibilities. In a more focused role he can definitely be better.

It's all pretty much moot anyway as I don't see him coaching for much longer. I will be very surprised if he is still coaching in 4 years. I would set the over/under @ 3.5 and I would take the under.

Great post and couldn't agree more. The coaching decisions yesterday and really it's been a theme all year should at the least worry us about moving forward. His in game decisions are league worst bad. That's not good enough especially when it's an easy fix. He is supposed to be a defensive genius but its trended down for 6 straight years and only the two trades really helped them this year or it would be even worse. If we don't win a playoff game this year it will have been multiple seasons without a single win. That's not good enough.

 

[xray]

Face the facts that Carroll as a HC has seen his best years come and go . He is a old-school coach in an evolving league that will leave him and the Hawks behind . He's too old and stubborn to change now . His past successes are meaningless at this point . What has he done for the Hawks lately ? That's the question . Hopefully next season he will assign himself to HO duties and promote a HC from within or look outside the organization .

 

[gabel]

This just in the Seahawks are 11-4. One of the best teams in the NFL...again!

 

[Largent80]

So fire everyone in your other thread and you forgot the coach too and so created a separate thread for that?

Making the playoff 8 out of 10 years does suck though.

 

[bandiger]

This just in the Seahawks are 11-4. One of the best teams in the NFL...again!

Have you been watching games buddy? They could easily be the lost washed up Chargers with the way the play games razor close. You know why the Chargers are in that position while Seahawks are a polar opposite cause Wilson is better than Rivers in the clutch despite the idiotic coaching that goes on during games usually.

 

[hawker84]

This post is why I rarely post on this forum. A bunch of clueless knee jerk reaction fans. You do realize Pete is one of the best coaches in the NFL? We have mediocre talent throughout every position except QB and we have a chance at winning the division next week.

No he's not, not even close. He put together a historic defense, had a pro bowl RB and elite QB and and despite his ineptude, managed to win a SB and piss away another. Cudos for that. He has proven year after year since then, he cannot adapt, cannot game plan or game manage, and cannot or will not admit his strategy has been figured out long ago and is stale.

Those who can't see this simply don't want to. Hopefully he's gone while Wilson is still in his prime, and we get a coach in here who will put him behind a real offensive line and allows him to shine like he can..

The only reason this clown is still winning games is because Wilson bails him out on a weekly basis, when they finally open up the playbook in the 4th quarter.

 

[timmat]

Some of Pete's ongoing tendencies are annoying - playclock management, in-game decision making at times, decisions about coaching staff, inability to put teams away etc. At times, they lead to negative plays, and on certain occasions, losses.

However, his overall program mentality, positivity, and belief in his players leads to overall success. I've resigned myself to the fact that he's going to be inconsistent; he's going to make decisions that seem odd and crazy at times, etc. But he's lead our team through amazing highs, and mitigated the lows. We witnessed the end of a legendary era in Seahawks football, witnessed a roster overhaul and the dismantling of a legendary D, and didn't have to go through a rebuild. We remained relevant, and I believe our W / L record has exceeded our talent in recent seasons.

I get the sense that many feel like we win in spite of Pete's program. That with a different person at the helm, with the same primary players, we'd be better off. In certain instances - and in games like yesterday - maybe so. Overall however, I think not. Not yet anyway...still too many W's put in the bank recently. Might be ugly W's, but wins nonetheless.

 

[warden]

One win from a division title and a first round bye and you want to fire the coach. Mind boggling

 

[olyfan63]

Face the facts that Carroll as a HC has seen his best years come and go . He is a old-school coach in an evolving league that will leave him and the Hawks behind . He's too old and stubborn to change now . His past successes are meaningless at this point . What has he done for the Hawks lately ? That's the question . Hopefully next season he will assign himself to HO duties and promote a HC from within or look outside the organization .

Pete has reinvented himself several times during his coaching career, while having consistent high-level success for the last 20 years. Many of us agree that it's time for him to reinvent himself again, but we differ wildly on the details. Fade had some realistic, positive options in his excellent post. Especially relevant points about the situational part and the mention of John Harbaugh's approach.

You and others seem to basically be advocating a Jerry Jones approach to running the team, old-school, punitive, Mike Ditka and Mike Singletary style. I am not intending to pick specifically on you; I suspect you're actually a "moderate" in that camp, compared to the some of the "overreaction extremists". How ironic that the "Fire Pete!" overreaction extremists cannot see that their "immediate emotional overreaction" is a damaging and narcissistic management style that has LONG AGO been passed by, by much more modern approaches such as the one Pete has adopted. Case in point this season, Jason Myers, and his mid-season FG struggles, some screamed out for the team to "Cut Myers" and find a "better" kicker off the free-agent scrap heap. AS IF. Pete calmly, wisely responded that Myers is our kicker and we believe in him. During the Cards game, I think the announcers mentioned that Myers was on a streak of 11 straight made FGs. Emotional overreaction, or Pete's approach? Pete, for the WIN, on that one.

That said, it's reasonable for the team ownership to have a conversation with Pete, to maximize his effectiveness, and have him delegate to take some things off his plate. Fade's post provides some excellent points the team ownership could use as a starting point for that conversation. This is where we miss Paul Allen, and can only hope Jody and the ownership group can put together some sort of well-managed approach the way Paul seemed to always manage to.

-Give full offensive control to Schotty, if Pete doesn't trust him fully in that role than Pete can hire an OC he can trust in that position. Pete shouldn't be meddling with the offense at this stage, he has a defense that desperately needs his expertise, and full attention. It is frankly, and clearly, a distraction for Pete.

-Pete focuses on defense, and HC responsibilities only. I think Pete is great at building a culture, and instilling the right attitude in his players. Let him focus on that, along with getting his defense right.

-Pete goes to school on situational football in the off-season, and has a plan when those situations come up in the games instead of flying by the seat of his pants, burning timeouts, taking delay of games, because he doesn't know what to do in the heat of the moment. John Harbaugh has a mid-twenties analytics guy in his ear on 4th downs as an example, and he is making him look like a genius. Pete has some "yes" men instead and doesn't really listen to them. It is chaos.

Right now, the ONLY active coaches that are on the same level with Pete in terms of overall, consistent, long-term NFL success would be Evil Hoodie, John Harbaugh, and you could make a decent case for Mike Tomlin. The next tier down would include guys like Mike Zimmer and Andy Reid, and possibly a couple others.

Pete's success comes despite some major front office flubs (to use kinder words) like Percy Harvin, Jimmy Graham, Malik McDowell, and generally underwhelming success with first round picks the last few years. Pete has some major areas of strength and success where he is a pioneer and the class of the league. Those areas of strength have carried him past his weaknesses and overcome organizational screwups. He is in fact due for another modernization, for his last few years of NFL coaching. If anyone can do it, based on track record of successful self-reinventions, it would be Pete.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Eight straight winning seasons,

Seven of the last eight seasons in the playoffs

Seven of the last eight seasons with double digit wins

It is an extremely ridiculous notion to say Pete Carroll needs to go

Yep. Also Pete Carroll did not cause all the injuries that have piled up to ruin the season.

I don’t think anyone here has claimed that.
Pretty weak straw man argument there.

 

[Tical21]

Please close this thread and ban the author permanently.

 

[Slick]

Does anybody think Pete Carroll looks like an old Trent Reznor? Or does Trent Reznor look like a young Pete Carroll? Mind blown!!!*

*Not the only thing on my body blown recently lOLOLOLOL