Pete is destroying Russell Wilson career

[Seymour]

Wilson will be a HOF QB.

Pete is just ruining Wilson's playoff success %. Wilson will go down losing these divisional games when it was really Pete.

My goodness, stats drive people crazy. LOL

One might counter with an assertion that Pete lets Wilson take sacks rather than throw the ball away. And, that certainly elevates Russell's pass completion stats and suppresses interceptions.

Russell Wilson is on a roll because he is surrounded by a great collaboration.

That is about the biggest exaggeration I've read on Wilson's support he has been given. No other top 10 QB has had worse OL pass support than Russ over his career!!
He is playing with 4th and 5th string RB's and going with the same run first game plan. That is about the most blatantly dumb thing you could do under the conditions given. :177692:

 

[Mad Dog]

Pete is a HELL of a coach, but if you don't think he's above some real criticism, you couldn't be more wrong.
And I have been accused of being the biggest homer around.

Well all coaches can be criticized. But much of the criticism on this forum is either unfounded, poorly directed or grossly hyperbolic.

For instance the "unleashing of Wilson" is a ridiculous concept that fails when looked at objectively. The gameplan we had started off with a fair amount of passing and play action and only one series of RRR. The Packers had a gameplan for us, we explored it in the first half, made adjustments and went off in the second half when the zones softened and the DL was a little more fatigued. The big problem in the game is our defense bending and breaking far too often in the first half. That had nothing to do with the offense. But if the defense holds up for 2 FG and a TD instead of 3 TD's, I think we squeak it out.

Bottom line is, if you just come out laying everything on your all star QB to wing it out of structure for 60 minutes, he's going to get killed. GB did that for several seasons with Rodgers and he was getting injured and they weren't making the playoffs. This year they made the running game a focus, he stayed healthy to finish games and they won 14 so far.

I think the strategy of establishing the running game, testing the defense then making adjustments has worked really well because Pete recognizes we have one of the best closers in the league. I think it would work better with a stronger roster around him and a better defense.

I'm pretty sure Pete knows what needs to get better for 2020. As much as you guys whine about Flowers and the secondary, it's really the front seven and their ability to stop the run, cover the outlet passes to RBs and TEs and pressure the QB that was our undoing. He's got to fix that and I think a new DC is probably in the works.

If anything is killing this team its the inability to stop the McVay style offenses. Something needs to be done to get a handle on that.

 

[Seahawk_Dan]

Wilson will be a HOF QB.

Pete is just ruining Wilson's playoff success %. Wilson will go down losing these divisional games when it was really Pete.

My goodness, stats drive people crazy. LOL

One might counter with an assertion that Pete lets Wilson take sacks rather than throw the ball away. And, that certainly elevates Russell's pass completion stats and suppresses interceptions.

Russell Wilson is on a roll because he is surrounded by a great collaboration.

That is about the biggest exaggeration I've read on Wilson's support he has been given. No other top 10 QB has had worse OL pass support than Russ over his career!!
He is playing with 4th and 5th string RB's and going with the same run first game plan. That is about the most blatantly dumb thing you could do under the conditions given. :177692:

When you lose your top two backs then you have to change the gameplan and fit it for your MVP candidate QB.

I remember back in '05 Superbowl run when the Seahawks played the Redskins, Alexander got knocked out with a concussion. The MVP, rushing leader, record setting running back was out of the game and what did Holmgrem do? Well, run the same gameplan and treat Mo Morris like Alexander of course. Oh wait, he didn't. Holmgrem, to his credit, changed it up and put the game in Hasselbeck's hands and didn't try to force a square peg in a round hole.

 

[Jville]

Wilson will be a HOF QB.

Pete is just ruining Wilson's playoff success %. Wilson will go down losing these divisional games when it was really Pete.

My goodness, stats drive people crazy. LOL

One might counter with an assertion that Pete lets Wilson take sacks rather than throw the ball away. And, that certainly elevates Russell's pass completion stats and suppresses interceptions.

Russell Wilson is on a roll because he is surrounded by a great collaboration.

That is about the biggest exaggeration I've read on Wilson's support he has been given. No other top 10 QB has had worse OL pass support than Russ over his career!!
He is playing with 4th and 5th string RB's and going with the same run first game plan. That is about the most blatantly dumb thing you could do under the conditions given. :177692:

You have posted that over and over and over again in thread after thread.

Oddly, it's got nothing to do with a view about stats driving people crazy.

With regards to the collaboration, the Russell collaboration is what it's record says it is.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Except it isn't just this game.

It is every divisional game since the SB loss.

Someone posted the #s for the 1st halves of these games. Something like 100-10 in favor of the opponent.

That isn't an accident. Yes, we had injuries this time. But not the others. Same results.

Yes, we had a garbage fire defense. I recall Pete hired our DC, who is a bottom-half DC that was struggling in Oakland. So that is still on Pete. Maybe he will fire our DC because he isn't competent. Does anyone believe our DC is going to lose his job? Nope? Then the defense is on Pete.

Pete is not the coach he was. He was a great coach. He isn't anymore. He has a great QB that masks some of this, but for the most part, we are on the slow slide down while still having a HOF QB in his prime. There is no upside with Pete, but admittedly another coach could be worse.

Pete will likely never be great again. And he will likely never do better than he is doing now.

However, another coach could also be much better (in terms of playoff success) because he would have the one thing a great coach needs - a great QB.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Wow, I bet you're a blast at parties.
I think we get it by now, you hate Pete Carroll.

 

[Hawkpower]

Except it isn't just this game.

It is every divisional game since the SB loss.

Someone posted the #s for the 1st halves of these games. Something like 100-10 in favor of the opponent.

That isn't an accident. Yes, we had injuries this time. But not the others. Same results.

Yes, we had a garbage fire defense. I recall Pete hired our DC, who is a bottom-half DC that was struggling in Oakland. So that is still on Pete. Maybe he will fire our DC because he isn't competent. Does anyone believe our DC is going to lose his job? Nope? Then the defense is on Pete.

Pete is not the coach he was. He was a great coach. He isn't anymore. He has a great QB that masks some of this, but for the most part, we are on the slow slide down while still having a HOF QB in his prime. There is no upside with Pete, but admittedly another coach could be worse.

Pete will likely never be great again. And he will likely never do better than he is doing now.

However, another coach could also be much better (in terms of playoff success) because he would have the one thing a great coach needs - a great QB.

How many other coaches have had enough success where we can debate "every divisional game since the Super Bowl"

The fact that we have multiple divisional games to discuss, especially with the dumpster fire roster that we had to roll out there at times in the last month, tells you Pete is doing one heck of a job.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Except it isn't just this game.

It is every divisional game since the SB loss..

What's the NFL road record for the Divisional round? Like .200 or less for the road team?

Do you think that might have something to do with your problem with our Divisional success? Too many on the road and not enough at home?

You want more success in the playoffs? Get the 1st or 2nd seed, not the 5th or 6th seed. To use our road record in the playoffs to prove a point about Pete is about as bad a narrative as you can get. It's hard for EVERY road team in the playoffs once you get to the divisional round.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Nah, clearly it's ONLY the Hawks. And Pete is such a horrible coach. I mean, things have been so brutal under Pete :?

 

[Tusc2000]

What some of you fail to get is that without Pete, we would probably not even be in the playoffs. What he brings to this team can't be measured in numbers.

 

[Seymour]

The home card is being over played this season. This was a FAR better road team. We likely lose worse at home looking at how we played here this year.
This team is different, and I don't like the trend that we pretty much suck at home for 2 years.

 

[John63]

What some of you fail to get is that without Pete, we would probably not even be in the playoffs. What he brings to this team can't be measured in numbers.

How do you know that? You really dont. I could make a much bigger argument without Wilson we don't make the playoffs

 

[John63]

Except it isn't just this game.

It is every divisional game since the SB loss..

What's the NFL road record for the Divisional round? Like .200 or less for the road team?

Do you think that might have something to do with your problem with our Divisional success? Too many on the road and not enough at home?

You want more success in the playoffs? Get the 1st or 2nd seed, not the 5th or 6th seed. To use our road record in the playoffs to prove a point about Pete is about as bad a narrative as you can get. It's hard for EVERY road team in the playoffs once you get to the divisional round.

Or trust your QB and let him play 4 qtrs.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The home card is being over played this season. This was a FAR better road team. We likely lose worse at home looking at how we played here this year.
This team is different, and I don't like the trend that we pretty much suck at home for 2 years.

It's not so much the road vs home as to why we lose on the road. It's the playing that extra game getting beat up and then going against a fresh rested healthy AND talented team the next week.

Aikman commented on it during the broadcast, he said he couldn't tell you how invaluable having that week off at the end of the season means to how well you play.

We are a good road team, but with a roster already decimated by injury the difference between not getting the #1 seed and getting the WC was the difference this year.

 

[sprhawk73]

Watching the second half of today's and many many other similar playoff games (at Minnesota, at Panthers, at Falcons, at Cowboys, ...), I'm now convinced that ... Pete's lacks trust in Wilson ...
Just imagine Russell was coached by Andy Reid. I watched Mahomes play today ... and Russell's second half made me believe we could have scored 50 points on GB today if our coaches weren't stupid.
When Aaron Rodgers stopped trusting McCarthy ... McCarthy was gone.
I'm not saying that Russ should chase Pete out of Seattle ... but, many of our losses are annoying.

I agree, PC reminds me of a parent trusting their kid to drive the car. 8 year veteran QB's of RW's caliber should be given the reigns. It has seemed like every game this year was won because we fell so far behind that the game plan was tossed and RW took over.

 

[bandiger]

What some of you fail to get is that without Pete, we would probably not even be in the playoffs. What he brings to this team can't be measured in numbers.

Nah, Pete would be like 7-9 or worse without a QB like Wilson. Thank god for that cause you could see the type of QB he likes ala Palmer, Leinhart, Booty, Sanchez, Whitehurst, TJ, Flynn, etc.

 

[SirTed]

What some of you fail to get is that without Pete, we would probably not even be in the playoffs. What he brings to this team can't be measured in numbers.

Nah, Pete would be like 7-9 or worse without a QB like Wilson. Thank god for that cause you could see the type of QB he likes ala Palmer, Leinhart, Booty, Sanchez, Whitehurst, TJ, Flynn, etc.

I'm sure Pete, and his biggest fans would agree with this.

I don't think a single Pete defender has anything bad to say about Russell. The dude is absolutely amazing, and easily in the argument for top quarterback in the league.

I also don't think it's off base to criticize Pete, and the situational play calling. He's too conservative, most of the time, for my liking. I wish he'd go for it more. It might cost us some games throughout the year. Maybe it cost them this one. But so did a handful of other plays. We had GB in multiple 3rd and longs. Our defense isn't what it has been, and GB made plays.

But how many games a year does that unwavering belief he brings win us? How often has that 1-0 mentality, every game is a playoff game mentality worked in our favor? No matter how critical you are of Pete, I just don't think it's close to fair to suggest that he's "wasting" Russell, or some garbage like that.

Don't use the Pats as any kind of example. They're an exception. Beyond Brady, what other QB / HC combos go to perennial Super Bowls?

Big Ben has been to 3. Probably only deserved to win 1. None of those years were his "best" seasons, though.
Peyton went to 2. He was a bottom 5 QB when they won their 2nd, with the best defense in the league.
Eli won 2, and I think we could all say that his were, again, both very lucky.
Brees, and the aggressive, genius Sean Payton have been to 1.
Andy Reid and Whomever you want 0-1. (McNabb, Smith, Mahomes, etc)
Jon Harbaugh and MVP Lamar just had their lunch handed to them by Tannehill.
Rogers has been to 1, and I don't think he'll make, or win this year (but it's possible), and he's arguably (by some) the greatest QB ever.
Elway - 2 SB wins (3 appearances)
Marino - 0 wins - ONE appearance.

This game, this sport, is REALLY hard, and more and more, it comes down to injury luck as much as anything. That was huge factor for this team. All you can ask, IMO, a GM and HC to do, is put the team in a playoff run every year. That's what we've gotten. We're damn lucky. Sure, there are frustrations, but EVERY team has that (with the exception of the Pats).
Russ will get a few more chances. We're going to get another. Please enjoy this gutsy eff-ing football team. Man, they play so hard. We're lucky, I promise you.

Finally - Who's out there that you like more? The Browns just hired the freaking Vikings offensive coordinator (yikes). Robert Selah(sp)? He might be a good HC, who knows - but it's not like there's a pool of coaches out there that we could be SURE are going to take this team to some "next level".

 

[Shanegotyou11]

False. A lot of pete fans think its russ as much as pete.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Russell's amazing, no denying that. But people aren't giving Pete enough credit.

It's Pete that's given Russell the perfect environment to learn, grow and become the player he is. To think Russell's halfway through a successful career that's going to end with him putting on a gold jacket without the help of his head coach that allows him the freedom to excel within the confines of his team, locker room and offense?

Short sighted. Russell's THE reason Pete turned over the entire roster getting rid of all the Russell haters and detractors on this team.

Do you really think it's a coincidence that Russell had his best year this year after getting his new deal and not having the distraction of guys like Bennett, Sherman, Earl and Doug undermining his leadership?

That's all Pete.

 

[Tamerlane]

Or trust your QB and let him play 4 qtrs.

I was going to stay out of these silly threads but I will make this 'one and done' with a few minor points.

Wilson did play 4 quarters. In the first half he was 6 for 13. One of his first passes was directly into the waiting arms of a defender, who dropped a dead easy interception. Other passes sailed. He missed easy checkdowns. His best pass set up Lockett to be annihilated. Hollister turned over the ball too in the pass game, but was bailed out just like Wilson. Russ continued to navigate himself into pressure: PFF credited him with 1 sack, 1 hit and 3 pressures, more than any Seahawks offensive lineman for the day. And you blame the coaching staff for even trying to run? Against an opponent with a much, much worse run defense than pass defense? They tried to run, they tried to pass, and they tried to stop the Packers offense. None of it worked well in the first half.

Russ's start was not totally unlike the Eagles game, where he made some great throws but also mixed in far too many absolutely inexplicable elementary misses, throwing at receivers feet even on unpressured screen passes. This is all to say: do you even consider that Wilson, as great as he is, and he is indeed great, actually starts slow himself from time to time and plays a role in digging the hole that the team must ultimately climb out of? This mythical and ignorant notion that everyone-but-Wilson digs the hole and savior-Russ comes to the rescue is really a cute story but that's about all it is.

John63, you've been prattling all year about pass pro, blaming the coaches for not building 'around Russ' including a Packers level top tier offensive line . Of course you pay no heed to the impact Wilson's league high APY might have on long term strategies to manage the cap, or that the Seahawks currently spend less on defense than most teams. But despite the Oline accumulating major injuires throughout the year, it actually got better and better, as I demonstrated with statistics more than once. And in this game, after racking up brand new injuries, the Oline actually outperformed the much vaunted Green Bay line as indicated in the tweet below.

I get it: you want to build a modern day 2013 Broncos offense that would obviously be unstoppable. And of course, you and the analytics brainiacs want a 70%+ pass rate, or maybe higher? Who wouldn't! In that case it might be a perfect time to jump on the Chiefs bandwagon. That is if they can get past the Tennesse Titans who just steamrolled the reigning Super Bowl champion and the Super Bowl favorite... with a devastating power run game. Just like the Patriots did through much of the playoffs last year. Nevermind that heading into this last weekend, KC was the one and only top 10 neutral-script pass% team still alive, compared with 5 of the top 10 run% teams making it that far (BAL, SF, TEN, MIN, SEA).

Unfortunately Seattle's own run game got decapitated after losing their best 2 run blocking TEs, half of the offensive line, and their top 3 running backs. Do you think maybe that and an injury-ridden, bottom of the league defensive line might have had something to do with falling short of better seeding and a better chance in the playoffs. Green Bay had an enormous advantage with home field, the bye week, health, and matchups in the trenches. Falling one score short is nothing to be ashamed of and no reason to look for scapegoats to satisfy your uncontrolled emotions.

Sadly, there is a certain thankfully tiny but very vocal minority of Wilson worshippers / Carroll haters that continue to twist facts and pit one against the other. They live in some fantasy world where they know better than Russ what's best for Russ. Wilson signed a contract. He knew exactly the lay of the land. He didn't want to go to a crappy, lopsided 70% passing team. Wilson respects the run game and a balanced attack - he says so often - which helps him like it helps any QB, and he checks into run plays all the time . Of course that doesn't stop armchair analysts from blaming coaches when those particular runs don't turn out. Wilson looks up to Carroll and Carroll showers love on Wilson. They are an unbelievable pairing that will endure for as many years as Pete wants to coach, and in all likelihood that means a whole lot of years. I can't wait.

And to all those spewing the related nonsense, Wilson does not "carry" Carroll any more than Carroll carries Wilson. PC was winning NFL playoff games before Wilson, and before that, he utterly dominated college football with myriad quarterbacks. A QB alone does not come anywhere near getting you the second most successful NFL team of the decade, or else first ballot hall of famer Drew Brees would have propelled the Saints to the same heights. Ideas like this are vacuous nonsense that pollute forums and twitter. They unfortunately leave a sour note at the end of an amazing Seahawks season of overcoming league leading youth, injuries and schedule difficulty. But don't let facts get in the way of your emotional expressions! Thanks for reading - I'm out. :0190l:

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