Peterson smokes weed before court appearance

[kearly]

Personally, I think whatever effects spankings have physiologically, if any, are overblown. If they were significant, you wouldn't need a study to prove it, it would be self evident from society at large (most of today's adults were spanked as kids).

I think the venom for AP is misguided. As Charles Barkley and other African Americans have pointed out, what Peterson did is very much the norm for Southern Blacks, who's biggest fear is that their kids could end up in prison. I'm not defending the practice and it could be argued their logic is flawed, but AP is simply exhibiting a trait from his culture group. If we disagree, we should be attacking that disciplinarian culture, not just one member of it.

 

[WendellWent]

Personally, I think whatever effects spankings have physiologically, if any, are overblown. If they were significant, you wouldn't need a study to prove it, it would be self evident from society at large (most of today's adults were spanked as kids).

I think the venom for AP is misguided. As Charles Barkley and other African Americans have pointed out, what Peterson did is very much the norm for Southern Blacks, who's biggest fear is that their kids could end up in prison. I'm not defending the practice and it could be argued their logic is flawed, but AP is simply exhibiting a trait from his culture group. If we disagree, we should be attacking that disciplinarian culture, not just one member of it.

The initial act may be the norm, but the results were not...anyone saying different deserves to go through what that kid went through. When you take switch to the scrotum I am sure you would change your tune. People like this are scum of the earth.

 

[hawk45]

Personally, I think whatever effects spankings have physiologically, if any, are overblown. If they were significant, you wouldn't need a study to prove it, it would be self evident from society at large (most of today's adults were spanked as kids).

I think the venom for AP is misguided. As Charles Barkley and other African Americans have pointed out, what Peterson did is very much the norm for Southern Blacks, who's biggest fear is that their kids could end up in prison. I'm not defending the practice and it could be argued their logic is flawed, but AP is simply exhibiting a trait from his culture group. If we disagree, we should be attacking that disciplinarian culture, not just one member of it.

Coming down on a particularly bad example of the culture is an effective way to attack that culture, probably the most effective way. Not group hugs for AP, starting a "dialogue", and absolving him of responsibility because there may be a larger group of people who are equally reprehensible.

Simple question to Charles Barkley or anyone else employing that rationalization: do you think whipping a kid's scrotum and causing the kid to bleed should be okay under the law and have no negative social stigma?

 

[RolandDeschain]

Personally, I think whatever effects spankings have physiologically, if any, are overblown. If they were significant, you wouldn't need a study to prove it, it would be self evident from society at large (most of today's adults were spanked as kids).

...Wow.

 

[WendellWent]

Personally, I think whatever effects spankings have physiologically, if any, are overblown. If they were significant, you wouldn't need a study to prove it, it would be self evident from society at large (most of today's adults were spanked as kids).

...Wow.

Yep, it is pretty amazing in today's society that we still have these type of people around.

 

[Largent80]

I already gave my own personal experience with being beaten with a "switch" from an apricot tree.

The affect on me is still very much a negative part of my memory. I was about 5 at the time and I am going to have my 62nd birthday in Nov.

Make NO mistake, this type of punishment is dreadful to the people on the wrong end.

Then this idiot smokes weed, admits it to court officials violating a judges order. If he does not get prison time it just is another example of the very broken justice system.

 

[HansGruber]

The justification for corporal punishment is the same as every other savage, nonsensical, or barbaric tradition our culture continues. Legacy. Tradition. Religious belief. My grandparents did it, so it must be right. Some angelic being appeared in a fiery shrub screaming "neek!", and told a goat-herder it was true 3,000 years ago (according to this book of questionable origin), so it MUST be right!


If you are a homo sapien, your natural neurological response to pain is to shutdown the learning pathways in the emotional and social learning centers of the brain. Specifically, the amygdala directly triggers high response in the ventromedial prefrontal cortex, retarding high-order "social" logic and emotional cognitive function. PERIOD.

For anyone to argue that the biological function of the ventromedial prefrontal cortex differs significantly in males and females? You might as well argue that the earth is flat. Because that is 100% nonsense. The same response that occurs in males also occurs in females. This is also verifiable empirical fact, confirmed via fMRI and PET imaging.

Massive volumes of experimentation have taken place in this area of neurological research, due to its wide application in many various fields of medicine. Pain response is not one of the gray areas of neurology, it is a well-established field with strong research behind it. When you argue the facts, you are arguing literally thousands of experiments in which functional imaging has actually SHOWN these results.

If anyone wishes to argue those results, you are free to join in the debate. Just be aware that it will take more than your Bible, your personal anecdotal experience, or "my Gramma told me so" to enter that conversation and be taken seriously. Be prepared to show significant fMRI, PET, CAT, or other verifiable empirical evidence to disprove what has already been discovered.

You can start by arguing the results of this research (I'll wait for your response in this thread):
http://gc.nesda.com.br/Conteudo/Arquivo ... nitiva.pdf

Whether or not you choose to accept the FACT, every time you strike your child as punishment, you are harming their intellectual development - specifically in the context of social learning and emotional cognitive development. You are actually handicapping their ability to learn from their mistakes.

If you're okay with handicapping your child's cognitive abilities, be my guest. Just understand that you are holding them back from fully developing into who they might have become had they not had a barbaric monkey for a parent.

 

[Sarlacc83]

I didn't get spanked very often, partly out of a deep fear of my father's temper, but my brother received the belt on a consistent basis and it didn't help him in the slightest - possibly even pushing him to early drinking and underage cigarette use among other things.

My impression on spanking is from here: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/ ... re-effect/ ( at bottom) that spanking with the hand under seven, and in private is effective and non-harmful in the long term but that other methoda are more effective still. A switch, used by a pro athlete is far too harmful to be good as discipline. (My own personal feeling on the matter of use is that spanking should be reserved for extreme cases, such as an assault of a fellow child because physical discipline fits the crime.)

 

[HansGruber]

Religion had nothing to do with this thread and quite frankly I don't want to hear another religious debate. You want to talk about abuse, hearing atheists and religious nuts ranting at each other re-defines mental abuse for everyone else who has to listen.

1) Religious tradition is one of the primary arguments for corporal punishment. Therefore, it "has something to do with it."

2) Nobody asked you to listen. You brought up the topic in your own post, in a disdainful way, long before anyone else. Which tells me you came in hunting for a debate over the appropriateness of religion. The polite thing to do would be to start a new thread on that topic, instead of hijacking the current one to carry out your personal crusade.

Further, religion is a major part of the human experience and a major factor in a lot of people's decision-making. Therefore, it will come up in ANY debate like this one, and everyone will have different feelings about it. If that fact drives you to physical pain, perhaps you should abstain from such discussions completely. The polite way to do that is to simply leave the conversation when the topic comes up, without insulting people or bringing unnecessary attention to yourself.

 

[HansGruber]

Religion had nothing to do with this thread and quite frankly I don't want to hear another religious debate. You want to talk about abuse, hearing atheists and religious nuts ranting at each other re-defines mental abuse for everyone else who has to listen.

1) Religious tradition is one of the primary arguments for corporal punishment. Therefore, it "has something to do with it."

2) Nobody asked you to listen. You brought up the topic in your own post, in a disdainful way, long before anyone else. Which tells me you came in hunting for a debate over the appropriateness of religion. The polite thing to do would be to start a new thread on that topic, instead of hijacking the current one to carry out your personal crusade.

Further, religion is a major part of the human experience and a major factor in a lot of people's decision-making. Therefore, it will come up in ANY debate like this one, and everyone will have different feelings about it. If that fact drives you to physical pain, perhaps you should abstain from such discussions completely. The polite way to do that is to simply leave the conversation when the topic comes up, without insulting people or bringing unnecessary attention to yourself.

You are off your rocker... go back and read what I said. My initial entry here was saying that I "almost completely agree with you". Did I not say that?

But I have a feeling that any discipline is better than no discipline at all - and the basis for that has to do with a book written by a psychologist on why gangs initiate and young men are drawn to hazing.

And then I made a slight joke by referencing the fight club to lighten the mood.

I am tired of your grinding axe - you are consistently one of the most rude, arrogant, and presumptuous posters on this forum. Your lack of manners,and your constant predisposition to take a pedantic stance towards anyone who disagrees with you borders on bullying.

You really know nothing about me, or about what actual abuse is for that matter - and given my past, your reference that I would beat my children is so aggravating and insulting that I really never want to interact with you again.

WTF are you talking about? I never said you beat your kids, and was never even talking to you. I was responding, in general, to arguments I've heard repeatedly throughout my life about the importance of corporal punishment, and further, all the nonsense I've heard from people about how you HAVE to beat boys because they're different than girls and that's all they respect. Someone, I don't even remember who, brought up a similar idea in their post, and so I debunked that.

And my reference to you bringing up religion was your statement about people quoting bible verses. You brought it up long before I did. And then you got butt-hurt and responded directly to my post because I had the gall to state that perhaps MRIs and PETs should hold a little more weight than some religious tradition.

 

[themunn]

It's more likely that children that get exposed to corporal punishment come from a less well educated background, possible broken home, often poorer family that all contribute to factors that lead to lower IQs.

I need a study that takes several groups of otherwise indistinguishable children and exposes them to different levels of corporal punishment and records the long term effects before I can take stock in a study of the psychology of receiving spanking. Of course, such a study would be absurd.

FWIW I think it's important to distinguish the difference between the actual physical act and the long term effects of regular physical punishment

 

[chris98251]

I think there is a difference between beatings and correction for something, to fear doing something you know is wrong due to consequences versus fear of being battered and bruised. More often than not kids start by fearing the sting, then it's the embarrassment of getting a swat or two. Thats just a spanking, a beating well, no excuse for them, I suffered beatings being made to walk across floors with broken glass and stuff when I was a kid because of a brutal stepdad. I know both sides.

My kids got a few swats when young, I don't think I had to spank again say after all of them had passed the age of 8, just a look would get it done and a removal of a wanted privilege.

Not fearing any consequences for anything I feel leads to people that take no responsibility for their actions. God knows we see enough of that shit today. Parents teaching their kids that they are all special and that saying you should not do that doesn't get it done. If they enjoyed doing the infraction they will do it again since there was no real consequences.

 

[Largent80]

When I went to SCHOOL, swats were the norm for students that "mis-behaved".

A guy in wood shop made the mistake of making a hole drilled paddle for the vice principle who was known for giving incredible hard swats. That guy got beat up EVERY day for that, This was in the late 60's.

Now, this type of thing would be a felony.

 

[chris98251]

When I went to SCHOOL, swats were the norm for students that "mis-behaved".

A guy in wood shop made the mistake of making a hole drilled paddle for the vice principle who was known for giving incredible hard swats. That guy got beat up EVERY day for that, This was in the late 60's.

Now, this type of thing would be a felony.

Yeah, I was on the end of one of those once in Jr High, only once though. Amazing how bad we all turned out from having fear of getting a swat ruin our IQ's and learning abilities, it's amazing we have survived this long.

 

[razgriz737]

Personally, I think whatever effects spankings have physiologically, if any, are overblown. If they were significant, you wouldn't need a study to prove it, it would be self evident from society at large (most of today's adults were spanked as kids).

...Wow.

I'm really hoping he forgot to use these: :sarcasm_on: :sarcasm_off:

 

[RolandDeschain]

I need a study that takes several groups of otherwise indistinguishable children and exposes them to different levels of corporal punishment and records the long term effects before I can take stock in a study of the psychology of receiving spanking. Of course, such a study would be absurd.

FWIW I think it's important to distinguish the difference between the actual physical act and the long term effects of regular physical punishment

There are multiple ones that have done that. No, I won't link you. You'll take umbrage with anything I post about it because your mind is made up and almost nothing will change it. If you truly want to enlighten yourself, let me introduce you to a friend of mine that goes by the name of Google.

 

[OkieHawk]

I need a study that takes several groups of otherwise indistinguishable children and exposes them to different levels of corporal punishment and records the long term effects before I can take stock in a study of the psychology of receiving spanking. Of course, such a study would be absurd.

FWIW I think it's important to distinguish the difference between the actual physical act and the long term effects of regular physical punishment

There are multiple ones that have done that. No, I won't link you. You'll take umbrage with anything I post about it because your mind is made up and almost nothing will change it. If you truly want to enlighten yourself, let me introduce you to a friend of mine that goes by the name of Google.

In all fairness Roland, your mind is pretty made up on this subject as well.

 

[RolandDeschain]

In all fairness Roland, your mind is pretty made up on this subject as well.

Yeah, based on based on very strong multi-sourced evidence. Not the Adrian Peterson Mindset of Parenting by Automatically Doing it the Way it was Done to Me.®

 

[OkieHawk]

In all fairness Roland, your mind is pretty made up on this subject as well.

Yeah, based on based on very strong multi-sourced evidence. Not the Adrian Peterson Mindset of Parenting by Automatically Doing it the Way it was Done to Me.®

Even multi-sourced evidence can be wrong, climate change studies ring a bell...? The great thing about science, as you well know, is that it is constantly evolving. Just because they say it's correct today doesn't mean that someone will not disprove it tomorrow.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Even multi-sourced evidence can be wrong, climate change studies ring a bell...? The great thing about science, as you well know, is that it is constantly evolving. Just because they say it's correct today doesn't mean that someone will not disprove it tomorrow.

Aye, it certainly can be. You can say that about anything, though. I certainly hope your point isn't "don't believe anything because it could later be proven wrong at some point", in which case I must ask what your point here actually is.

My opinion on this isn't based on the number of different sources that have correlated it.