PFF: Why it’s not too late to fix Seahawks’ offensive line

[sdog1981]

So if we subtract the Russell Wilson run plays the Seahawks rushing offense goes from top 4 every year to 11th,21st, and 18th. These linemen can't run block they can't pass block that is on coaching and evaluations. Tom Cable is pushing this team to be a "what if" dynasty. Super Bowl champions are built with 3-7 round draft picks on the O-line.


Lets look at the Broncos Oline



Ryan Harris LT 3rd round
Evan Mathis FA
Matt Paradis 7th round
Louis Vasquez FA
Michael Schofield 3rd round


Lets pick some other Super Bowl champs

2014 NE Pats

Nate Solder 1st round
Dan Connolly FA
Bryan Stork 4th round
Ryan Wendell UDFA
Sebastian Vollmer 2nd

2013 Ravens

Bryant McKinnie FA
Kelechi Osemele 2nd round
Matt Birk FA
Marshal Yanda 3rd round
Michael Oher failed LT first round


As you can see other teams have gotten much high production from their Oline evaluations and coaching then the Seahawks have. Im sorry if your offended but Tom Cable is the weakest link on this team.

 

[Basis4day]

So if we subtract the Russell Wilson run plays the Seahawks rushing offense goes from top 4 every year to 11th,21st, and 18th. These linemen can't run block they can't pass block that is on coaching and evaluations. Tom Cable is pushing this team to be a "what if" dynasty. Super Bowl champions are built with 3-7 round draft picks on the O-line.


Lets look at the Broncos Oline



Ryan Harris LT 3rd round
Evan Mathis FA
Matt Paradis 7th round
Louis Vasquez FA
Michael Schofield 3rd round


Lets pick some other Super Bowl champs

2014 NE Pats

Nate Solder 1st round
Dan Connolly FA
Bryan Stork 4th round
Ryan Wendell UDFA
Sebastian Vollmer 2nd

2013 Ravens

Bryant McKinnie FA
Kelechi Osemele 2nd round
Matt Birk FA
Marshal Yanda 3rd round
Michael Oher failed LT first round


As you can see other teams have gotten much high production from their Oline evaluations and coaching then the Seahawks have. Im sorry if your offended but Tom Cable is the weakest link on this team.

Um... What?

 

[Willyeye]

So if we subtract the Russell Wilson run plays the Seahawks rushing offense goes from top 4 every year to 11th,21st, and 18th. These linemen can't run block they can't pass block that is on coaching and evaluations. Tom Cable is pushing this team to be a "what if" dynasty. Super Bowl champions are built with 3-7 round draft picks on the O-line.


Lets look at the Broncos Oline



Ryan Harris LT 3rd round
Evan Mathis FA
Matt Paradis 7th round
Louis Vasquez FA
Michael Schofield 3rd round


Lets pick some other Super Bowl champs

2014 NE Pats

Nate Solder 1st round
Dan Connolly FA
Bryan Stork 4th round
Ryan Wendell UDFA
Sebastian Vollmer 2nd

2013 Ravens

Bryant McKinnie FA
Kelechi Osemele 2nd round
Matt Birk FA
Marshal Yanda 3rd round
Michael Oher failed LT first round


As you can see other teams have gotten much high production from their Oline evaluations and coaching then the Seahawks have. Im sorry if your offended but Tom Cable is the weakest link on this team.

You're ignoring some key factors: the Seahawks FO decided years ago to spend a higher percentage of cap space on their defense than any other team. This has resulted in the Hawks spending less on their O-Line than any other team...so that equates to Cable being the weakest link? If you really want to do some research, see how much those other teams spent on their O-Lines for those given years (BTW, I think you probably meant 2012 Ravens).

Furthermore, I tried to remember if there've been any FA OL signings in the last few years, and the only one I can think of was Eric Winston, and he didn't make the roster. And like I pointed out above...who did they give Cable to work with in the last 4 drafts? Nobody in 2012; 2- 7th rounders in 2013 and they let both of them get poached; in 2014, a 2nd rounder who should have been a 5th rounder, and a 6th rounder with a heart defect; and in 2015, they gave him only ONE actual O-Lineman, and an OL guy in the 4th round that could have been got in the 6th round, and a DL guy that may still be able to convert to O-Line in the 6th round.

Do you see my point? In the first 3 rounds of the draft in the last 4 years, they gave Cable ONE 2nd rounder that was ranked as a 5th rounder. How would you expect anything different from Cable? If it was any other coach, they couldn't have even made it to the playoffs the last 4 years, much less 2 SB's despite being given ZERO talent to work with for the last 4 years. I still don't see how you can blame all of this on Tom Cable? Maybe you can blame the Britt pick on Cable, but using a 2nd round pick for him was on JS.

Link for team spending on O-Line: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/offensive-line/ Seahawks are #32 in O-Line spending.

 

[bjornanderson21]

It's not too late because there is still the draft and post-draft releases and cutdowns.

There are still plenty of ways for us to improve, but paying Sweezey $6m or giving a "real" contract to Okung for $8m+ was not one of them.

 

[sdog1981]

You're ignoring some key factors: the Seahawks FO decided years ago to spend a higher percentage of cap space on their defense than any other team. This has resulted in the Hawks spending less on their O-Line than any other team...so that equates to Cable being the weakest link? If you really want to do some research, see how much those other teams spent on their O-Lines for those given years (BTW, I think you probably meant 2012 Ravens).

Furthermore, I tried to remember if there've been any FA OL signings in the last few years, and the only one I can think of was Eric Winston, and he didn't make the roster. And like I pointed out above...who did they give Cable to work with in the last 4 drafts? Nobody in 2012; 2- 7th rounders in 2013 and they let both of them get poached; in 2014, a 2nd rounder who should have been a 5th rounder, and a 6th rounder with a heart defect; and in 2015, they gave him only ONE actual O-Lineman, and an OL guy in the 4th round that could have been got in the 6th round, and a DL guy that may still be able to convert to O-Line in the 6th round.

Do you see my point? In the first 3 rounds of the draft in the last 4 years, they gave Cable ONE 2nd rounder that was ranked as a 5th rounder. How would you expect anything different from Cable? If it was any other coach, they couldn't have even made it to the playoffs the last 4 years, much less 2 SB's despite being given ZERO talent to work with for the last 4 years. I still don't see how you can blame all of this on Tom Cable? Maybe you can blame the Britt pick on Cable, but using a 2nd round pick for him was on JS.

Link for team spending on O-Line: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/offensive-line/ Seahawks are #32 in O-Line spending.

So why is it that every player Cable wants turns out to be bad? Either John Schnider can't evaluate talent or Tom Cable is a bad coach. Tom Cable has been run out of town in less then two years at every coaching stop since 1997. Let that sink in. I trust John Schnider with a new Oline coach more then I trust Tom Cable with any GM.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

So why is it that every player Cable wants turns out to be bad?

They don't.

 

[brimsalabim]

32? Almost seems as if our poor Oline performance is willful.

 

[Anonymous]

I think many of you are missing a key point; our O-line doesn't need to be like the Dallas line of the early nineties, they need to be squirrely, strong, and mean.

Gone are the days when you need beef that you can't move in the middle and beef that you can't get around at tackle. With a QB like Wilson, tight ends that can run, and small shifty receivers, the O-line need only "steer" the rushers where we want them to be.

I believe the guys Pete, John and Tom select are those that are smart, strong, and have good technique over the guys with bulk. It doesn't hurt of they are willing to bite, scratch, and kick guys in the seeds either.

 

[Hawks46]

Pretty sound reasoning overall. I'd have to question why they haven't signed a guy like Beatty if he's coming that cheap.

Is Beatty really bad, or are they just that high on Gilliam and/or draft picks ?

It does seem like a good year to get a solid tier 2 OT in the late first or 2nd rounds.

Will Beatty underwent rotator cuff surgery is November and isn't fully healed. I think he's hoping to get healthy before doing free agency visits. He definitely couldn't pass a physical right now. He's going to be a pre-training camp add on a prove it deal.

Scheme fit is a big question mark though. I'm no expert on the Giants, but their rushing attack ranked 19th, 23rd, and 29th in the past 3 years. If he comes for cheap, maybe, but I'm still leaning toward draft and develop at this point for our LTOTF.

Thanks for the feedback, that makes perfect sense.

 

[Hawks46]

Which is frightening to say the least.

What's frightening about Gilliam and Glowinski? Glow was solid in his single appearance, agree or disagree?

I'd argue that Gilliam's athleticism and measurables match favorably against any LT in this draft. He also played significantly better as the season progressed which should be extremely encouraging for a player seeing their first NFL action.

I understand pessimism in general but think Britt/Lewis/Webb are the more obvious targets for it. I'd be optimistic about our line if we add rookie talent at RT and C.

Actually, Gilliam would be top 3 among OL across the board in this year's NFL draft. I think it was Hawkblogger who recently compared Gilliam to Jason Peters. Peters was also a TE that converted to Tackle, and was actually cut and resigned to the PS his rookie year. Peters is (was) a freak of nature athletically, and Gilliam matches or beats him in most comps.

We don't know that Gilliam will be a great LT, but on the surface he's at least as good as guys like Spriggs and Ifedi in the draft because: he's elite athletically, he's played in the NFL already and showed that he can progress and play RT at least at a league average level, and (IMO) is versatile. He hasn't played RT for years and years, so he's not that ingrained in his footwork that way, hell he's probably still learning his footwork on the right side. Shifting to the left (theoretically) shouldn't be all that hard if he has the athleticism. Also, he's not a road grader, so he's actually more suited to LT as a skill set. Also theoretically.

It's a quandary. Do you go all in with Gilliam and Sowell ? Or do you draft a guy you think will work there, and let Sowell fight it out with the rook while Gilliam polishes up at RT ? It's really a question that none of us can answer and has us all on pins and needles. The awesome thing is that we saw what our offense can do last year in a spread, with the same skill position players we have now. All we need is league average, not league terrible, and Russ can sort it out. That's the optimistic side.

 

[AgentDib]

He hasn't played RT for years and years, so he's not that ingrained in his footwork that way, hell he's probably still learning his footwork on the right side. Shifting to the left (theoretically) shouldn't be all that hard if he has the athleticism.

In addition, Gilliam has had more experience at LT when you consider that the swap to RT was made in mid august last year and for the 1-1/3 years before then we'd been playing him on the left side.

It's a quandary. Do you go all in with Gilliam and Sowell ? Or do you draft a guy you think will work there, and let Sowell fight it out with the rook while Gilliam polishes up at RT ?

I'd argue the answer here is trusting the draft process. My guess is that any of the rookie tackles we've discussed around here who may available as BPA for us would compete at RT with Webb first and Gilliam/Sowell will be the LT competition.

 

[canfan]

:th2thumbs:

PFF = plucked from fanny

 

[Seafan]

You're ignoring some key factors: the Seahawks FO decided years ago to spend a higher percentage of cap space on their defense than any other team. This has resulted in the Hawks spending less on their O-Line than any other team...so that equates to Cable being the weakest link? If you really want to do some research, see how much those other teams spent on their O-Lines for those given years (BTW, I think you probably meant 2012 Ravens).

Furthermore, I tried to remember if there've been any FA OL signings in the last few years, and the only one I can think of was Eric Winston, and he didn't make the roster. And like I pointed out above...who did they give Cable to work with in the last 4 drafts? Nobody in 2012; 2- 7th rounders in 2013 and they let both of them get poached; in 2014, a 2nd rounder who should have been a 5th rounder, and a 6th rounder with a heart defect; and in 2015, they gave him only ONE actual O-Lineman, and an OL guy in the 4th round that could have been got in the 6th round, and a DL guy that may still be able to convert to O-Line in the 6th round.

Do you see my point? In the first 3 rounds of the draft in the last 4 years, they gave Cable ONE 2nd rounder that was ranked as a 5th rounder. How would you expect anything different from Cable? If it was any other coach, they couldn't have even made it to the playoffs the last 4 years, much less 2 SB's despite being given ZERO talent to work with for the last 4 years. I still don't see how you can blame all of this on Tom Cable? Maybe you can blame the Britt pick on Cable, but using a 2nd round pick for him was on JS.

Link for team spending on O-Line: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/offensive-line/ Seahawks are #32 in O-Line spending.

So why is it that every player Cable wants turns out to be bad? Either John Schnider can't evaluate talent or Tom Cable is a bad coach. Tom Cable has been run out of town in less then two years at every coaching stop since 1997. Let that sink in. I trust John Schnider with a new Oline coach more then I trust Tom Cable with any GM.

The Hawks are actually stocking the league. Now if they can only get 5 guys who can block consistently this season they'll be where they've been or better for the last 5 years. They'll have about 7 picks to add to the TC pile. Doubt they pick many.

 

[Basis4day]

So why is it that every player Cable wants turns out to be bad? Either John Schnider can't evaluate talent or Tom Cable is a bad coach. Tom Cable has been run out of town in less then two years at every coaching stop since 1997. Let that sink in. I trust John Schnider with a new Oline coach more then I trust Tom Cable with any GM.

He was at Idaho for 4 seasons (2000-2003) and Oakland for 4 seasons (2007- 2010) and has now been with the Seahawks for 5 seasons (2011-Present).

And he wasn't run out of Atlanta. The head coach was fired and Cable went to the Raiders.

In other words, your statement is completely false.

It's fine to dislike Cable. But it's important to dislike him for the right reasons.

 

[Jville]

We grade for our team. We don't grade for the league. --- John Schneider

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DavisHsuSeattle/status/720327188147363840[/tweet]

Indeed ...... why not ...... Go Hawks!

 

[McGruff]

We grade for our team. We don't grade for the league. --- John Schneider

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DavisHsuSeattle/status/720327188147363840[/tweet]

Indeed ...... why not ...... Go Hawks!

It's just a picutre, but looking at that gets me fired up about Glowinski and Sokoli. Those two guys just look like beasts out there.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

We grade for our team. We don't grade for the league. --- John Schneider

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DavisHsuSeattle/status/720327188147363840[/tweet]

Indeed ...... why not ...... Go Hawks!

It's just a picutre, but looking at that gets me fired up about Glowinski and Sokoli. Those two guys just look like beasts out there.

Too bad Sokoli won't be ready for another year, best-case scenario.

That's why the coaches haven't spoke of him competing for a spot. I suppose it's alright to hope he'll suddenly bust out in TC and preseason, but that's just wishful thinking against long odds.

So why is it that every player Cable wants turns out to be bad?

They don't.

You're ignoring some key factors: the Seahawks FO decided years ago to spend a higher percentage of cap space on their defense than any other team. This has resulted in the Hawks spending less on their O-Line than any other team...so that equates to Cable being the weakest link? If you really want to do some research, see how much those other teams spent on their O-Lines for those given years (BTW, I think you probably meant 2012 Ravens).

Furthermore, I tried to remember if there've been any FA OL signings in the last few years, and the only one I can think of was Eric Winston, and he didn't make the roster. And like I pointed out above...who did they give Cable to work with in the last 4 drafts? Nobody in 2012; 2- 7th rounders in 2013 and they let both of them get poached; in 2014, a 2nd rounder who should have been a 5th rounder, and a 6th rounder with a heart defect; and in 2015, they gave him only ONE actual O-Lineman, and an OL guy in the 4th round that could have been got in the 6th round, and a DL guy that may still be able to convert to O-Line in the 6th round.

Do you see my point? In the first 3 rounds of the draft in the last 4 years, they gave Cable ONE 2nd rounder that was ranked as a 5th rounder. How would you expect anything different from Cable? If it was any other coach, they couldn't have even made it to the playoffs the last 4 years, much less 2 SB's despite being given ZERO talent to work with for the last 4 years. I still don't see how you can blame all of this on Tom Cable? Maybe you can blame the Britt pick on Cable, but using a 2nd round pick for him was on JS.

Link for team spending on O-Line: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/offensive-line/ Seahawks are #32 in O-Line spending.

So why is it that every player Cable wants turns out to be bad? Either John Schnider can't evaluate talent or Tom Cable is a bad coach. Tom Cable has been run out of town in less then two years at every coaching stop since 1997. Let that sink in. I trust John Schnider with a new Oline coach more then I trust Tom Cable with any GM.

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