Why the Seahawks and Russell Wilson finally split. Hint, it’s the drafts.

[nwHawk]

Does not change the fact that he played his part in the WB run just like LOB and Lynch did. Ahh fyi they signed Flynn the same year the got Wilosn. He beat Flynn out. As to pressure or not is irrelevant he still won yhe starting job.

Why does it feel like I’ve been a fan for decades and you’re trying to make people think you have a plethora of Seahawks knowledge?

You make this grand announcement about Flynn like you’re telling me something new, but I guess you didn’t read on post.

Can’t wait to hear the excuses the next couple of year from you.

 

[nwHawk]

Wilson knew he needed a fresh start.

 

[John63]

Why does it feel like I’ve been a fan for decades and you’re trying to make people think you have a plethora of Seahawks knowledge?

You make this grand announcement about Flynn like you’re telling me something new, but I guess you didn’t read on post.

Can’t wait to hear the excuses the next couple of year from you.

No need for an excuse, anything that happens with the Hawks from this point till PC leaves is on PC.

 

[Tusc2000]

John Schneider has built a couple of SB teams through the draft. Seattle is lucky to have him. Also they've had success in trades.

You need to add a < sarcasm > note to your post because it is totally ridiculous. The last 5 years of Schneider's drafts have produced 1 star, the trades of high draft picks for one year rentals have decimated the roster, and the FA signings have been weak. Schneider's trading down in drafts to obtain lots of mid-round picks have yielded mostly bench players. JS should be selling used cars right now, but I'd bet he'd be lousy at that too.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

John, you need to get over it and move on. Pull for the guys that are actually ON THE TEAM.
It sucks, but you gotta' let it go man. Russ is gone. He wanted to leave, he got his wish.

 

[Fade]

I mean, perhaps Carroll has a slight "advantage" in terms of familiarity, sure. But implying that this is enough to be the primary catalyst for a period of draft dominance is just silly. It implies that the draft is beatable so long as you have a bit more hands on experience with the prospects, which just isn't true. It doesn't work like that.

Also, I bet some of the same people parroting the "inside knowledge" angle are McCloughan truthers too, despite the narratives being wholly contradictory.

Pete picks the players. When he no longer has the same intimate knowledge the hit rate when down massively. This isn't an opinion, but what actually happened.

 

[TwistedHusky]

I've always contended it was Scott not Pete. Scott loaded that 49ers team with All Pros too. Then he came here and knocked it out of the park. Heck, even the Redskins (now the WFT) got a number of ballers from drafts he had a hand in.

It might not have been Scott, maybe it was someone that worked for him, but either way - when Scott left, so did 80-90% of our magic in the draft. We still hit on a few here and there but it was far less effective than what Scott ended up doing at his next stop.

At FIRST, the excuse was that we were 'a good team and you cannot expect much from the draft picks when we have to constantly be picking close to the bottom of the 1st'. (This excuse neglected the reality that in Scott's years here, he got a number of fantastic players in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and even 6th rounds. Heck, the 5th round was normally our magic round.)
Then, people preached patience - that Carrol 'knew what he was doing' and that he was going to develop another set of studs like he did last time.
Now, apparently it is all the fault of JS. Whatever. Carrol is supposedly at the wheel and repeatedly crashing into the rocks in the draft as soon as Scott left. It was probably mostly Scott, as I said at the time.

Not sure many, if any, draft successes from the SB runs were Carroll picks at all. So giving him credit for that in order to make his current failures look less terrible? Seems pretty desperate. He gets credit for hiring Scott and running an org that drafted well with Scott. But losing Scott screwed him.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Pete picks the players. When he no longer has the same intimate knowledge the hit rate when down massively. This isn't an opinion, but what actually happened.

You're confusing correlation with causation.

 

[toffee]

I've always contended it was Scott not Pete. Scott loaded that 49ers team with All Pros too. Then he came here and knocked it out of the park. Heck, even the Redskins (now the WFT) got a number of ballers from drafts he had a hand in.

It might not have been Scott, maybe it was someone that worked for him, but either way - when Scott left, so did 80-90% of our magic in the draft. We still hit on a few here and there but it was far less effective than what Scott ended up doing at his next stop.

At FIRST, the excuse was that we were 'a good team and you cannot expect much from the draft picks when we have to constantly be picking close to the bottom of the 1st'. (This excuse neglected the reality that in Scott's years here, he got a number of fantastic players in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and even 6th rounds. Heck, the 5th round was normally our magic round.)
Then, people preached patience - that Carrol 'knew what he was doing' and that he was going to develop another set of studs like he did last time.
Now, apparently it is all the fault of JS. Whatever. Carrol is supposedly at the wheel and repeatedly crashing into the rocks in the draft as soon as Scott left. It was probably mostly Scott, as I said at the time.

Not sure many, if any, draft successes from the SB runs were Carroll picks at all. So giving him credit for that in order to make his current failures look less terrible? Seems pretty desperate. He gets credit for hiring Scott and running an org that drafted well with Scott. But losing Scott screwed him.

I often wonder what happened, John and Scott were very good friends, and John offered help when Scott was down and fired from 9ers. Then something happened, these two no long talk? For a long time, Scott offered a scouting service of some sort and teams used his services but not the Hawks?

I think we don't need to hire Scott with his drinking and personal problems, but shouldn't we engage his company/service?

 

[chris98251]

He cleaned up his drinking, he went to the Redskins as a GM if I remember correctly and when Snyder pulled his crap he did his scouting services for a while. I think he still consults.

 

[TwistedHusky]

He went to Denver. Not NY, Not LA.

There are actually few commercial/promotional opportunities in Denver than here.

The idea he went to Denver to build his brand does not jibe.

And then contrast it with he went to a coach that was a complete unknown (as HC) vs Carroll.

So he went to Denver because of or a combination of:

1 - Different coach
2 - Prefers their GM over ours.
3 - Better roster

If #3 is in that mix, and #3 seems most likely, then it stands to reason that poor draft/roster decisions drove or contributed to the outcome. If Denver has a better roster, then us having a better roster could likely have prevented the move.

It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to find a non-football related reason to move to Denver.



OF COURSE, HE WOULD HAVE STAYED if we had a championship roster and we were playing championship-caliber football.

 

[chris98251]

Keep saying this is a stepping stone, he will hold the NEW ownerships feet to the fire to resign the savior who walks on water or get a bidding war hopefully started for his services to go to New York or another more media oriented market. Won't be L.A. with Herbert and Stafford locked up there now.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

He went to Denver. Not NY, Not LA.

There are actually few commercial/promotional opportunities in Denver than here.

The idea he went to Denver to build his brand does not jibe.

The Russell wanted out to go to a bigger or better media market to grow his brand is the funniest hot take of all the bad hot takes.

Yeah that Aaron Rodgers, that's why he's stayed in the massive metropolis media market of Green Bay Wisconsin all these years, so he could get rich doing all those Adidas, Bose, Pizza Hut and State Farm commercials.....and get to host Jeopardy to grow his brand.

Wilson wanted out because he didn't think the organization and coaching staff was maximizing his abilities to win Championships.

The End.

 

[balakoth]

Help u out, if I don't reply its because I have u on ignore.

Im gonna follow your lead on this one.. but you are my ignore target. Have a good one

 

[Fade]

Wilson wants to win. He named his first born son, "Win."

That's how bad he wants to win. He could not do that here. Pete ran the team into the ground. Wilson was wasting his time, and the Seahawks time for that matter by staying.

He went to a team that has a top 5 defense, a top 5 run game, a top 10 O-Line. 3 quality targets at WR, a quality Offensive Head Coach. They are young, and ready to win now. A team that is fully invested in him, and willing to do whatever it takes to give him what he needs to win and be successful. Pete wasn't willing to that.

Pete wasted years building a failed defense, and a run game, with Wilson having to come in and save the day time after time.

Wilson had to practically beg just to get Gabe freakin' Jackson and was treated like an ingrate.

Pete can now fully invest in his philosophy. And see how that goes for him. It won't go well, but at least he can say he did it his way.

 

[Fade]

You're confusing correlation with causation.

There is a clear line of amazing drafts to suddenly the bottom falling out.

2010-2012 //// 2013-To present.

What variables changed?

1) Scot McCloughan left. (Built up the core of the Harbaugh 9ers. Helped build up the Seahawks through their great run of drafts, built up WAS very talented trench play, recently helped build up CLE.)

2) Pete admitting in multiple draft pressers over the years his insight dissipated after those first few drafts.
(Bear in mind Pete drafted, signed, and traded a ton of players in 2010-2012 that he himself recruited to go to USC.)

Outside of the 2 factors above Seattle kept most of the same talent evaluators on their staff intact. So the same brain trust was in charge and running these drafts. (Fitterer only left recently to take the CAR job.)

3) Chocking it up to bad draft luck for 9 years?

4) Insert excuse here…

 

[scutterhawk]

Who knew that always picking late in the draft for ten years because of consistently being in the playoffs could lead to less than excellent drafts every year? It's almost like the talent level decreases late in each round or something. Shocking.

^^THIS RIGHT HERE^^
PLUS, the Seahawks supposedly had their KEY players locked in, and were drafting to find players to WORK INTO their system. + Some of Pete's sub-Coaches were poached away, and say what ya want, their input to the Drafting of certain players were huge in the TEAM BUILDING plans back then.

 

[Maelstrom787]

There is a clear line of amazing drafts to suddenly the bottom falling out.

2010-2012 //// 2013-To present.

What variables changed?

1) Scot McCloughan left. (Built up the core of the Harbaugh 9ers. Helped build up the Seahawks through their great run of drafts, built up WAS very talented trench play, recently helped build up CLE.)

2) Pete admitting in multiple draft pressers over the years his insight dissipated after those first few drafts.
(Bear in mind Pete drafted, signed, and traded a ton of players in 2010-2012 that he himself recruited to go to USC.)

Outside of the 2 factors above Seattle kept most of the same talent evaluators on their staff intact. So the same brain trust was in charge and running these drafts. (Fitterer only left recently to take the CAR job.)

3) Chocking it up to bad draft luck for 9 years?

4) Insert excuse here…

I don't care what Pete said about his own insight into those classes. One doesn't become a draft wunderkind simply because they recruited some of the kids when they were in high school. That's absolutely asinine and it doesn't bear out anywhere else in history. It's fanciful.

O'Brien Schofield was a Seahawk in only 2013 and 2014. What, is he your missing link now too, Fade? I mean, there's a CLEAR LINE!

Correlation isn't causation. It just isn't. Ignoring basic logic in favor of half-baked but oft-regurgitated theories is just silly.

I'm of the opinion that Scot leaving hurt more than anything and it hurt the dynamic of the draft war room. I think they collecticely reigned each other in and made each other better. That's a much, much more sane and logical theory than "Pete knew the kids, therefore built a hall of fame roster despite countless other coaches also knowing the kids and not doing the same!"

 

[John63]

Keep saying this is a stepping stone, he will hold the NEW ownerships feet to the fire to resign the savior who walks on water or get a bidding war hopefully started for his services to go to New York or another more media oriented market. Won't be L.A. with Herbert and Stafford locked up there now.

well, you can say it, you are entitled to your opinion. We will have to wait and see won't we.

 

[John63]

Im gonna follow your lead on this one.. but you are my ignore target. Have a good one

Works for me