Q&A with Saints Fans/Seahawks-Saints Game Preview ...

[Zorn76]

Doesn't change the fact that the Saints are going to have to play much better, on the road, in one of (if not the) biggest home field advantages in the league. All in 40 degree (or less) weather. Good luck with that.

We are dealing with similar weather conditions as Seattle over here in Louisiana. Windy, wet, and in the 40s. Also, the Saints have been holding their practices outdoors all throughout. This is the NFL in case you forgot. This is not the Saints first rodeo dealing with these conditions. Luck will not be necessary.

Yep, this is the NFL alright.

Did the Saints pipe in some 12th Man crowd noise when they were practicing outdoors too?

LOL, whatever.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours, 9.

 

[bigbrod81]

People have brought up ... well, they gave up 134 yards to Zac Stacy in St. Louis

As a Saints fan, I wouldn't put much stock into that Rams game. It was a road game against a physical divisional on a short week. The average fan cannot fully grasp the disadvantage that road teams have on these Thursday night games. Teams have to compact their film study, game planning & walk through's. This really puts the road team in bind not to mention the stress it puts on the players body. There's always a handful of players on both teams who don't play but could probably play if the game were on Sunday & not Thursday. The Saints game against the Falcons falls under this same umbrella. (By the way, I hate all Thursday night games for all teams. It's not quality football.)

Absolutely that's a valid criticism -- especially at home against the Bucs. I'll continue to contend that as far as the Bucs are concerned, Seahawk players looked at their record ... and then looked at their own and the fact that they were playing in Seattle and said, "Eh, these guys are pushovers.

The pushover sediment maybe a valid reasoning into the Seahawks slow start against the Bucs. While no one was actually paying any attention to the Bucs but to laugh at the Josh Freeman situation, Schiano getting ripped by the media & their battle with MRSA, the Bucs have played REALLY good defense the entire season. Early on the turnovers on offense & the loss of just about every running back on their roster, put their defense behind the eightball. Glennon has stepped in & cut back on the turnovers. The Bucs have somehow managed to continue to be able to run the ball. With more stability on offense, that defense has been given the ability to just play & not to have to carry the whole team. I thought that at the point of being 0-8, that the Bucs would have quit but surprisingly they haven't. They are playing like a team that is 8-3 & not 3-8.

In the Vikings Game, the stat sheet is going to say that the Seahawks allowed 132 yards on 33 carries. However, if you go back through the game logs there, you get a whole different perspective.

I wouldn't hang my hat on these numbers just like I won't hang my hat on the Saints shutting down the 49ers & Frank Gore. The 49ers & Vikings are really similar offensively. Both have strong running games lead by outstanding backs in Gore & Peterson. They both have QB's who questionable passers. It was real easy to game plan to load up the box against both of these offenses. Both defenses deserve credit for going out & executing the game plan but that game is real easy when the opposing QB isn't much of a passer.

This game is going to be entirely different in comparison to those matchups. Outside of obvious run down & distance & heavy run personnel packages, it's going to be hard to just load the box against either one of these offenses. The key to this game may come down to who can run & stop the run out of spread & pistol formations. Defenses cannot just load the box against these formations because of the threat of the pass out them. Offensively, it's going to be up to the wide receivers to be able to block & hold blocks to prevent corners & safeties from disrupting these running plays. On the defensive side, it's going to be up to the corners & safeties to come up in run support & negate these running plays.

 

[bigbrod81]

As far as Oline we are pretty strong. Our LT, C. Brown is a good pass blocker and good run blocker, quick and athletic. Grubbs at LG is I would say about the same. Center DLP is decent pass blocker and I would say ok run blocker but has improved over the last few weeks. RG Evans is excellent at both pass and run blocking. Strief at RT is excellent at run blocking and solid at pass. Also, Ben Watson our backup TE is a solid pass blocker. One of the good thing about our running backs is they are all great at pass blocking and picking up blitzes.

How much does it hurt the defense having that corner of yours hurt and is the backup formidable

Losing Jabri Greer is a negative, no doubt. He was really playing well before having that gruesome injury against the 49ers. His replacement Corey White is a second year player who made several starts last season. He struggled a bit in Steve Spagnuolo's zone scheme last season but shown to be much better in man coverage. He's actually much better in press man then off man. He has good size at 6'1 205 lbs.

I expect White & rookie Kenny Vaccaro to rotate covering slot receivers. Vaccaro has done this pretty much all season.

 

[bigbrod81]

Did the Saints pipe in some 12th Man crowd noise when they were practicing outdoors too?

I guess playing in the Superdome is like playing in a meadow on a spring day, right?

Sean Payton is the best offensive coach in the NFL right now. He will have his offense ready to play in a loud environment. This isn't their first rodeo in a hostile environment.

 

[-The Glove-]

Doesn't change the fact that the Saints are going to have to play much better, on the road, in one of (if not the) biggest home field advantages in the league. All in 40 degree (or less) weather. Good luck with that.

We are dealing with similar weather conditions as Seattle over here in Louisiana. Windy, wet, and in the 40s. Also, the Saints have been holding their practices outdoors all throughout. This is the NFL in case you forgot. This is not the Saints first rodeo dealing with these conditions. Luck will not be necessary.

Yep, this is the NFL alright.

Did the Saints pipe in some 12th Man crowd noise when they were practicing outdoors too?

LOL, whatever.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours, 9.

Let's not be an ass, now. These guys are bringing a lot more than your average fanbase

 

[-The Glove-]

Did the Saints pipe in some 12th Man crowd noise when they were practicing outdoors too?

I guess playing in the Superdome is like playing in a meadow on a spring day, right?

Sean Payton is the best offensive coach in the NFL right now. He will have his offense ready to play in a loud environment. This isn't their first rodeo in a hostile environment.

Now don't take this as smack cause I disagree with the commenter you posted but...the Superdome is your HOME field. Unless the fans are idiots, which I know you guys aren't, it's not going to be incredibly loud while your team is on offense

 

[bigbrod81]

Did the Saints pipe in some 12th Man crowd noise when they were practicing outdoors too?

I guess playing in the Superdome is like playing in a meadow on a spring day, right?

Sean Payton is the best offensive coach in the NFL right now. He will have his offense ready to play in a loud environment. This isn't their first rodeo in a hostile environment.

Now don't take this as smack cause I disagree with the commenter you posted but...the Superdome is your HOME field. Unless the fans are idiots, which I know you guys aren't, it's not going to be incredibly loud while your team is on offense

This is true, playing at home doesn't effect the home team's offense but most fans fail to realize that home crowd noise effects the home team's ability to audible defensively.

Yes, the home crowd can be an advantage in terms of opposing offense's trying to audible but it's just as tough on the home team's defense.

 

[Saints33]

Losing Jabri Greer is a negative, no doubt. He was really playing well before having that gruesome injury against the 49ers. His replacement Corey White is a second year player who made several starts last season. He struggled a bit in Steve Spagnuolo's zone scheme last season but shown to be much better in man coverage. He's actually much better in press man then off man. He has good size at 6'1 205 lbs.

I expect White & rookie Kenny Vaccaro to rotate covering slot receivers. Vaccaro has done this pretty much all season.

Pretty much this. White was 4th string at the beginning of the year. Greer and Patrick Robinson who went out I believe 2nd game with patella injury were our faster corners. White has decent speed, but way more physical than both of them.

 

[Zorn76]

Doesn't change the fact that the Saints are going to have to play much better, on the road, in one of (if not the) biggest home field advantages in the league. All in 40 degree (or less) weather. Good luck with that.

We are dealing with similar weather conditions as Seattle over here in Louisiana. Windy, wet, and in the 40s. Also, the Saints have been holding their practices outdoors all throughout. This is the NFL in case you forgot. This is not the Saints first rodeo dealing with these conditions. Luck will not be necessary.

Yep, this is the NFL alright.

Did the Saints pipe in some 12th Man crowd noise when they were practicing outdoors too?

LOL, whatever.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours, 9.

Let's not be an ass, now. These guys are bringing a lot more than your average fanbase

Really? Wow.

 

[Zorn76]

Did the Saints pipe in some 12th Man crowd noise when they were practicing outdoors too?

I guess playing in the Superdome is like playing in a meadow on a spring day, right?

Sean Payton is the best offensive coach in the NFL right now. He will have his offense ready to play in a loud environment. This isn't their first rodeo in a hostile environment.

Now don't take this as smack cause I disagree with the commenter you posted but...the Superdome is your HOME field. Unless the fans are idiots, which I know you guys aren't, it's not going to be incredibly loud while your team is on offense

Exactly.

 

[Scottemojo]

Did the Saints pipe in some 12th Man crowd noise when they were practicing outdoors too?

I guess playing in the Superdome is like playing in a meadow on a spring day, right?

Sean Payton is the best offensive coach in the NFL right now. He will have his offense ready to play in a loud environment. This isn't their first rodeo in a hostile environment.

And yet the best offensive coach in the NFL has not yet surpassed 27 points on the road. And will be going against a team that averages 32 at home. What a conundrum!

 

[Zorn76]

Doesn't change the fact that the Saints are going to have to play much better, on the road, in one of (if not the) biggest home field advantages in the league. All in 40 degree (or less) weather. Good luck with that.

We are dealing with similar weather conditions as Seattle over here in Louisiana. Windy, wet, and in the 40s. Also, the Saints have been holding their practices outdoors all throughout. This is the NFL in case you forgot. This is not the Saints first rodeo dealing with these conditions. Luck will not be necessary.

Btw - Have the Saints been practicing at night outdoors? Because unless that's the case - which I doubt very much - your N.O. weather hasn't been anything like what you claim during normal (daytime) practice hours. Here it is, in fact, for the month of November. Nice try, though.

http://www.weather.com/weather/monthly/USLA0338

 

[bigbrod81]

Did the Saints pipe in some 12th Man crowd noise when they were practicing outdoors too?

I guess playing in the Superdome is like playing in a meadow on a spring day, right?

Sean Payton is the best offensive coach in the NFL right now. He will have his offense ready to play in a loud environment. This isn't their first rodeo in a hostile environment.

And yet the best offensive coach in the NFL has not yet surpassed 27 points on the road. And will be going against a team that averages 32 at home. What a conundrum!

Back in the beginning of this thread, I gave an explanation for this. Through the first 8 games of the season, the Saints run game was basically nonexistent. The Jets game seemed to be a turning point where Sean Payton realized an extreme change had to be made to running game.

During training, Payton installed a zone blocking scheme into the Saints run game. In an attempt to try to get more "home run" runs out of the ground game, the offense went away from the hat on hat blocking scheme of past seasons. Here's a quote from RB Pierre Thomas during training camp.

In the past, we weren’t that good at our outside zone running. We were mostly good running the inside zone runs. We’ve seen from studying the past. What can we do better? It’s to get better at those outside zone runs. That’s one thing we’re really emphasizing on and focusing on those outside runs.

http://whodatdish.com/2013/08/10/saints-going-to-a-outside-zone-blocking-scheme/

After the Jets loss, Payton scrapped the zone blocking scheme. It was a horrible fit & it didn't match up with the type of lineman on the roster. The Saints came out after the bye week against Dallas & caught them off guard as the Cowboys were looking to defend the zone blocking scheme in the run game. That's why the Boys ended up getting gashed so badly on the ground that game. The games against the 49ers & Falcons didn't result in absurd yardage on the ground as it did against the Cowboys but 100 yards is plenty enough balance for a Sean Payton/Drew Brees offense.

This same type of turn around occurred for the Saints in the 2011 season. That team was 5-3 at the mid way point of the season. YPC wasn't the issue in the first half of that season but the number of attempts was a huge issue. Payton became dedicated in the second half of the 2011 season to getting the offense more rushing attempts which led to a 6th overall rushing ranking that season.

Secondly, Payton hasn't been as aggressive on the road. Part of that had to with the early struggles of the run game but it also has to do with the fact that for the first time in a long time, he has a defense he can rely on to get stops. This "conservative Payton" showed up in the second half of the game at Chicago & cost the team a victory in New England. Sean should have went for the kill shot against the Patriots when the Pats turned the ball over on downs deep in their own territory around the 3 minute mark left in the game. He ran the ball on the first two downs then had Brees throw a low percentage fade to Colston. He should have been more aggressive especially on 2nd down when the Patriots had 8 in the box. He did the same thing after the defense intercepted Tom Brady on the first play of New England's next possession. He then tried to run Brees on a naked bootleg on 3rd down but the backside DE didn't bite. Again, he should have thrown the ball against a loaded box on 2nd down. The Saints punted & everyone knows what happened after that.

I really doubt, with everything on the line for this game, that Payton will be conservative. That means sticking to the ground game to create balance even if may not be working early on as well as aggressive playing calling in crucial situations. Payton definitely learned his lesson about not throwing to get a first at the end of a game because he called a pass play to pick up a huge first down in the win at Atlanta.

 

[Scottemojo]

That lengthy and in depth explanation still does not address a lack of point production since scrapping a zone system or when playing on the road. (Also, a little FYI, while I don't doubt that zone was tough for your guys, Seattle is running a zone system with some linemen not considered fits for the system. I find it odd that Payton would abandon it mid season, even committing to the zone system in seattle fans were told it might take half a season, or more, to get the timing of it down. Of course, if your running backs aren't one cut runners, the ZBS was a bad idea from the go.) Also, you seem to be proving my point, since scrapping the ZBS the Saints have scored 23 at home and 17 on the road. Hardly a reason for hope a trend will change.

Constantly I see Saint fans predict a win with them scoring at or near their season high on the road, 27 points. The saints have not given up a lot of passing TDs and carry the illusion of a good run D, so I can understand why they think their D might carry the day. I in fact do expect them to be at or near their season high for points.

In listening to Sirius NFL radio, I noticed a trend that makes me LOL about this game. Every caller, every radio host first mention Browner's suspension. Browner seriously injured his groin 3 weeks ago and was never going to play in this game. Also, they all talk about can Seattle's D stop this potent Saints O? Only one pundit, Pat Kirwan, asked if the Saints could stop Seattle's offense(an offense that has produced as many points as the saints on the season). And mentioned that the Saints have not produced points on the road in great quantity.

I expect a huge day from Lynch, Saints fans will have Chris Ivory flashbacks. Even if the Saints go up early, Seattle will run. And run. And run. And then go deep. We will get our 30 plus points, so the only real question to me is can the Saints score more on the road in Seattle than they have in friendlier road venues vs lesser defenses than they have all season? I kind of doubt it.

 

[Boutte]

Kind of late to the party but I'd like to make a few comments. First the whole Saints can't play on the road thing is completely overblown. I'm sure one of my fellow fans has already mentioned that since 09 we have the best road record in the league. And that includes '12 when they gutted our coaching staff. I do recognize though that Seattle isn't your typical venue, you have a great team and the 12th man thing is very real.

Don't put too much stock in the loss to the Jets. For whatever reason we have a bad habit of playing one absolutely horrible game each year, the Jets were this year's stinker.

The Marshawn Lynch run was at the time the worst play in Saints history! It was quickly replaced the following year by Vernon Davis' last minute miracle in SF. Lynch's run still haunts us though.

Thanks for David Hawthorne. The guy has been a beast for us this year.

Russel Wilson is amazing! You guys really hit the jackpot with this guy. He's like a Drew Brees who can run.

How has Pat McQuistan been for you guys? I was surprised to see him starting for you (or anyone for that matter) he wasn't very impressive for the short time we had him.

 

[Number9]

Doesn't change the fact that the Saints are going to have to play much better, on the road, in one of (if not the) biggest home field advantages in the league. All in 40 degree (or less) weather. Good luck with that.

We are dealing with similar weather conditions as Seattle over here in Louisiana. Windy, wet, and in the 40s. Also, the Saints have been holding their practices outdoors all throughout. This is the NFL in case you forgot. This is not the Saints first rodeo dealing with these conditions. Luck will not be necessary.

Btw - Have the Saints been practicing at night outdoors? Because unless that's the case - which I doubt very much - your N.O. weather hasn't been anything like what you claim during normal (daytime) practice hours. Here it is, in fact, for the month of November. Nice try, though.

http://www.weather.com/weather/monthly/USLA0338

If you look at your own link, it's been exactly like what I posted for the Saints practice week of Nov 24-Nov 30. Nice try, though.

 

[bigbrod81]

That lengthy and in depth explanation still does not address a lack of point production since scrapping a zone system or when playing on the road. (Also, a little FYI, while I don't doubt that zone was tough for your guys, Seattle is running a zone system with some linemen not considered fits for the system. I find it odd that Payton would abandon it mid season, even committing to the zone system in seattle fans were told it might take half a season, or more, to get the timing of it down. Of course, if your running backs aren't one cut runners, the ZBS was a bad idea from the go.) Also, you seem to be proving my point, since scrapping the ZBS the Saints have scored 23 at home and 17 on the road. Hardly a reason for hope a trend will change.

Constantly I see Saint fans predict a win with them scoring at or near their season high on the road, 27 points. The saints have not given up a lot of passing TDs and carry the illusion of a good run D, so I can understand why they think their D might carry the day. I in fact do expect them to be at or near their season high for points.

In listening to Sirius NFL radio, I noticed a trend that makes me LOL about this game. Every caller, every radio host first mention Browner's suspension. Browner seriously injured his groin 3 weeks ago and was never going to play in this game. Also, they all talk about can Seattle's D stop this potent Saints O? Only one pundit, Pat Kirwan, asked if the Saints could stop Seattle's offense(an offense that has produced as many points as the saints on the season). And mentioned that the Saints have not produced points on the road in great quantity.

I expect a huge day from Lynch, Saints fans will have Chris Ivory flashbacks. Even if the Saints go up early, Seattle will run. And run. And run. And then go deep. We will get our 30 plus points, so the only real question to me is can the Saints score more on the road in Seattle than they have in friendlier road venues vs lesser defenses than they have all season? I kind of doubt it.

The Saints have only had one road game since scrapping the zone blocking scheme. One game isn't a large enough sample size to determine if the improvement in the running game is paying dividends on the road especially since that one road game was a Thursday night game against a divisional opponent. Out of all fan bases, Seahawk fans should realize the difficulty in playing the short week game on the road against a divisional opponent.

3 turnovers against the 49ers prevented the Saints from scoring more & gave San Fran extra possessions. (Muffed punt by Lance Moore, Corey White fumbled a would be pick 6 through the end zone, Brees tried to lob a poor pass to Graham) Without those turnovers, the Saints score more & that came isn't as close as the final score shows. 17 of the 49ers points came off short fields from turnovers. There was a huge difference in total yargage. 387 total yards for the Saints while 196 for San Francisco.

Seahawk fans want to hang their hats on duplicating what the Jets did but the Saints defense was banged up for that game especially at safety. Back up Raphael Bush took some terrible angles in run support which allowed Chris Ivory to break containment on two of his long runs. Malcolm Jenkins & Roman Harper are back. Those two are much better in run support then Bush.

Also by your way of thinking, people should question the Seahawks struggles & close wins at Carolina, Houston & St. Louis as well as their close win at home against Tampa Bay. That way of thinking is foolish. At the end of the day, all that matters is getting the W. Sometimes luck is involved but good teams have a way of creating their own good luck. At this point in time, the Saints & Seahawks are the two best in the NFC & in the NFL altogether. Barring a rash of turnovers by either offense, I don't envision much separation in this game. This will probably be a one possession late into the 4th quarter with the winner ultimately making the necessary plays down the stretch. Now if one team gains a significant advantage in the turnover department then that prediction goes out of the window.

 

[Zorn76]

Doesn't change the fact that the Saints are going to have to play much better, on the road, in one of (if not the) biggest home field advantages in the league. All in 40 degree (or less) weather. Good luck with that.

We are dealing with similar weather conditions as Seattle over here in Louisiana. Windy, wet, and in the 40s. Also, the Saints have been holding their practices outdoors all throughout. This is the NFL in case you forgot. This is not the Saints first rodeo dealing with these conditions. Luck will not be necessary.

Btw - Have the Saints been practicing at night outdoors? Because unless that's the case - which I doubt very much - your N.O. weather hasn't been anything like what you claim during normal (daytime) practice hours. Here it is, in fact, for the month of November. Nice try, though.

http://www.weather.com/weather/monthly/USLA0338

If you look at your own link, it's been exactly like what I posted for the Saints practice week of Nov 24-Nov 30. Nice try, though.

Great catch! Well played, sir.

 

[Hawkscanner]

Happy Thanksgiving All!

I did actually get a few minutes to get online after all. I’ve got something that I’d like BOTH Saints Fans and Seahawk Fans reaction on, because it really is an issue that that affects BOTH teams (and goes beyond simply this game). [And I do so with a bit of trepidation, as I know this could set off a bit of a firestorm.]

I was listening to the podcast of KJR 950-am’s roundtable (they have these every week on the Seahawks upcoming opponent) on Wednesday. For those who might be interested, you can listen to the whole thing by clicking the link below …

http://www.sportsradiokjr.com/media...themorning/1126-12th-man-roundtable-24023762/

During the roundtable, Hugh Millen (former UW Husky QB and played in the NFL for 10 years with the Patriots, Falcons, and even the Saints among other teams) said something very interesting. He related a conversation that he had had awhile back with former Seahawks QB and now ESPN analyst Trent Dilfer. Dilfer shared with Millen that he (Dilfer) had had a length conversation with Drew Brees awhile back here. Brees apparently admitted to Dilfer that there are times when he drops back to pass … that when he is looking left, right, etc. (trying to make the defense think he is considering which receiver to throw to) that in reality he can’t see.

That’s very interesting (and obviously a little bit concerning to Seahawks fans as well). According to the Saints official website, Drew Brees is listed as being 6’0”. Russell Wilson, on the other hand, according to the Seahawks official website is listed as being 5’11”. Now admittedly, Hugh Millen has fully admitted in the past that he believes that height is an issue for QB’s (I take some stock in that because he played the position after all). At the same time though (as has been brought up many times) no QB [not even one who’s 6’5”] throws through the back of the linemans’ heads who are protecting him -- he throws through lanes.

We have hammered away and hammered away at this issue on this site every since Russell Wilson first stepped on the football field. On the positive side, we’ve seen Russell Wilson make some fantastic throws from the pocket (and I’ve seen Brees make several great throws from within the pocket as well).

BUT, I know I’ve also seen times where Seahawk WR’s have been streaking down the field WIDE OPEN … and Wilson somehow (inexplicably) fails to notice and to throw them the ball. Could it be (like Drew Brees) that height at times IS truly a factor and that he simply doesn’t see that receiver?

The game plan against BOTH QB would appear to be the same then -- push the pocket back in to the face of the QB. Even if your DT’s don’t get home -- if they can push those guards and the center back in to that QB’s face, the theory would be that the shorter QB’s field of vision is that much more occluded.

For me, I’m absolutely cringing as I write this, as I’ve been one of the more vocal ones in saying that the “short QB” thing is not an issue. However, if what Millen is saying is true … and Drew Brees actually said this, it appears that is could be at times.

Thoughts/Reactions all?

 

[Saints33]

Yea, I'm sure it is somewhat of an issue even though we as fans may not always notice it. Brees gets a few balls batted down but I'm not sure its more than any other QB. I could be wrong, just don't notice it often. That's the reason we have spent an enormous amount of money on our guards, to protect the push up the middle. Overall, when a receiver is open Brees is great at finding him. Wilson is good at finding them also, he will only get better with more experience.