Random Thoughts on the Dallas game

[HansGruber]

I agree with you Hans. Take care of our division and Hawks will be fine.

To add to your thoughts of errors made by Seattle I saw a lot of attempted tackles high at the shoulders and trying for the ball, which led to a lot of extra yards for Dallas. I agree with a lot of other posts that say we need to get back to basics, take their legs out.

This is all adjustable and its only week 6. Lets take a look at it again by week 9-10.

I have confidence in this group and they'll rise!

Yeah, because DeMarco Murray has a notorious problem with fumbling. I had him on my fantasy team a few years back and he would have these games where he'd put up 120 yards rushing and a TD, then kill his own fantasy score with 2 late fumbles. And that was a regular problem. Like almost every week. It was very frustrating. One second he's got 22 fantasy points and you're killing your opponent, a few minutes later, he's got 10 points and you're cussing at your television along with the Dallas fans.

I noticed Seattle going for the strips on every run and it was obvious they were going after the fumble versus tackles. If you go back and watch, Sherman wasn't doing that, he was just wrapping up and tackling. Just one of the ways he's such a great defender for us.

Murray fumbled on one play without even being touched, he was just running and bobbled it up into the air. Lucky for Dallas, he was on the sideline and the ball flew out of bounds. There was a DB right there who would have grabbed that fumble had Murray been just a few yards away from the sideline.

Just to expound on Murray: this is why I think Dallas won't be a serious postseason contender. They're always strong early because Murray is always healthy early, but he ALWAYS breaks down around Week 8. Dallas will start strong, but they're going to fade once Romo starts choking it up in December (as usual) and Murray is injured (as usual).

 

[papashango]

I agree with you Hans. Take care of our division and Hawks will be fine.

To add to your thoughts of errors made by Seattle I saw a lot of attempted tackles high at the shoulders and trying for the ball, which led to a lot of extra yards for Dallas. I agree with a lot of other posts that say we need to get back to basics, take their legs out.

This is all adjustable and its only week 6. Lets take a look at it again by week 9-10.

I have confidence in this group and they'll rise!

Yeah, because DeMarco Murray has a notorious problem with fumbling. I had him on my fantasy team a few years back and he would have these games where he'd put up 120 yards rushing and a TD, then kill his own fantasy score with 2 late fumbles. And that was a regular problem. Like almost every week. It was very frustrating. One second he's got 22 fantasy points and you're killing your opponent, a few minutes later, he's got 10 points and you're cussing at your television along with the Dallas fans.

I noticed Seattle going for the strips on every run and it was obvious they were going after the fumble versus tackles. If you go back and watch, Sherman wasn't doing that, he was just wrapping up and tackling. Just one of the ways he's such a great defender for us.

Murray fumbled on one play without even being touched, he was just running and bobbled it up into the air. Lucky for Dallas, he was on the sideline and the ball flew out of bounds. There was a DB right there who would have grabbed that fumble had Murray been just a few yards away from the sideline.

Just to expound on Murray: this is why I think Dallas won't be a serious postseason contender. They're always strong early because Murray is always healthy early, but he ALWAYS breaks down around Week 8. Dallas will start strong, but they're going to fade once Romo starts choking it up in December (as usual) and Murray is injured (as usual).

I went up and looked up Demarco's stats it says he's had 3 fumbles. Not sure how accurate ESPN.com is but it says he only has only 5 fumble in 3 years. That's not a fumbling problem. This year? He's done it in nearly every game and that is what you call a fumbling problem.

I think Dallas will be there at the end. Its hard not to be. If they only relied on Romo throwing 50 times a game or Murray than i'd agree. But they rely on that offensive line. And as long as that offensive line is blocking they should be there win the post season. They just need Romo to make key throws and to help them get out of games when they are losing. So far they are 5-1 doing it.

And the reason I say Demarco isn't as vital to them as you think because I saw Randle come in and have the biggest run of the night. Clearly their offensive line is opening up holes for any running back that's back there. Dunbar as well.

Seahawks will get their shot at the Cowboys again this season. That's my prediction anyway.

 

[Atradees]

I know we hate losing. I do expect to win every game. Bad as we played we were in it. Frankly, the offensive line is a liability that we have minimized because of our QB. It wont last forever. It really needs to be addressed.

My Girlfriend is a Dallas fan and she really expected to lose......I didnt mind paying up that bet.

Random thoughts on the game........

The Cowboys seemed like a bigger more physical team.

I didnt like anything about our offense really. I blame their coordinator having a solution for us. AND

It seems to me if you know the center is out you have a bunch of wheel routes and runs and the like to quickly move the

football. Lynch, Christine Michael, Harvin.... I am not talking about jet sweeps and the like.....North and south. If protection

is non existent you cant run sideline to sideline. There needs to be blocking a lil for that to be effective even if you have

"The Harvin". Yes, run run run throws so short they are basically runs........no huddle should have been effective against a

large Dallas defense.

After the half we made good adjustments. Our current staff is the best I have experience at that. Another quarter and we

would have won. I think we will improve as the season moves on become more stable. The offense once again will be slow

developing. Were in second. We stomped the Skins the week before. As long as we improve and we have Wilson we

are in the race to win it all again.

 

[SoCalSeahawk]

I'm not able to read all of the posts; but the common theme seems to be that Dallas was very well prepared and the Seahawks were not. Well, Dallas had an early Sunday home game and Seattle had a late Monday game and spent Tuesday in travel status. The Seahawks had a very short week on this one. Dallas was in full game plan install on Monday and Tuesday...the Seahawks didn't get to day one of preparations until Wednesday. Put that together with Dallas being pretty good and this being their biggest game since Garrett took over as head coach almost four years ago and you have a minor upset.

Last year we played a road MNF game in St. Louis and the following short week was against Tampa Bay. That game almost got away from us as well. Fortunately Tampa didn't have the talent to sustain for 60 minutes.

It's a long season. The Seahawks are fine.

 

[StoneCold]

I think it would be a major mistake to make big changes to how we play. I know no one cares what I have to say, meh. Brocks Chalk Talk and Scottie Mojo all 22 clearly show that we just didn't execute. We were just off by a bit. I know it doesn't pay to point to one or a few plays, but that is the difference in this game. Not that we didn't run ML enough or that we have injuries. 3 more first downs and we are talking a different kind of smack. DeMarco Murray had 69 yards with a 2.9 YPC with 4 mins and change to go. We stop the 3rd and 20 and get the ball back, different kind of smack. I know that play is no guarantee that we win, but we at least burn some clock, maybe score. It changes the game. If you can look at a game and say there are 4 plays that would have completely altered the outcome you can't say you need to overhaul your team to win.

SC

 

[RolandDeschain]

I'm not able to read all of the posts; but the common theme seems to be that Dallas was very well prepared and the Seahawks were not. Well, Dallas had an early Sunday home game and Seattle had a late Monday game and spent Tuesday in travel status. The Seahawks had a very short week on this one. Dallas was in full game plan install on Monday and Tuesday...the Seahawks didn't get to day one of preparations until Wednesday. Put that together with Dallas being pretty good and this being their biggest game since Garrett took over as head coach almost four years ago and you have a minor upset.

Last year we played a road MNF game in St. Louis and the following short week was against Tampa Bay. That game almost got away from us as well. Fortunately Tampa didn't have the talent to sustain for 60 minutes.

It's a long season. The Seahawks are fine.

Didn't stop us from smoking the Cardinals on Thursday Night Football last year, and TNF represents a significantly shorter week than the Sunday following a MNF game. I really don't buy into the short week = huge disadvantage thing. Doesn't look like it correlates very much by the actual record of those games, either: TNF Results

 

[Scottemojo]

I think it would be a major mistake to make big changes to how we play. I know no one cares what I have to say, meh. Brocks Chalk Talk and Scottie Mojo all 22 clearly show that we just didn't execute. We were just off by a bit. I know it doesn't pay to point to one or a few plays, but that is the difference in this game. Not that we didn't run ML enough or that we have injuries. 3 more first downs and we are talking a different kind of smack. DeMarco Murray had 69 yards with a 2.9 YPC with 4 mins and change to go. We stop the 3rd and 20 and get the ball back, different kind of smack. I know that play is no guarantee that we win, but we at least burn some clock, maybe score. It changes the game. If you can look at a game and say there are 4 plays that would have completely altered the outcome you can't say you need to overhaul your team to win.

SC

It isn't all execution. I just spent a few minutes looking at our 4 2nd quarter plays (yeah, I know, 4 blankety blank plays) and the selection of plays is in complete denial of the game situation. Dallas had just eaten 10 minutes of game clock, our D was gassed and needing a break, and the playcalls totally ignore that.

1st down. Empty set. Dallas shows blitz with a LB jumping in Schilling's face, and he flinches.
5 yards, repeat, this time with a trick play based off zone read. Except that this play has a tell. Baldwin cannot engage his man down the field because it is a pop pass to Kearse. Baldwin's guy figures it out, heads for Kearse, short gain.

Followed by 2 more empty sets and 2nd and 3rd down. The 3rd down play features poor pass blocking by Willson, which is bad execution, but if you have a pass play where the key is Willson blocking, well the OC should have his head examined.

 

[StoneCold]

I think it would be a major mistake to make big changes to how we play. I know no one cares what I have to say, meh. Brocks Chalk Talk and Scottie Mojo all 22 clearly show that we just didn't execute. We were just off by a bit. I know it doesn't pay to point to one or a few plays, but that is the difference in this game. Not that we didn't run ML enough or that we have injuries. 3 more first downs and we are talking a different kind of smack. DeMarco Murray had 69 yards with a 2.9 YPC with 4 mins and change to go. We stop the 3rd and 20 and get the ball back, different kind of smack. I know that play is no guarantee that we win, but we at least burn some clock, maybe score. It changes the game. If you can look at a game and say there are 4 plays that would have completely altered the outcome you can't say you need to overhaul your team to win.

SC

It isn't all execution. I just spent a few minutes looking at our 4 2nd quarter plays (yeah, I know, 4 blankety blank plays) and the selection of plays is in complete denial of the game situation. Dallas had just eaten 10 minutes of game clock, our D was gassed and needing a break, and the playcalls totally ignore that.

1st down. Empty set. Dallas shows blitz with a LB jumping in Schilling's face, and he flinches.
5 yards, repeat, this time with a trick play based off zone read. Except that this play has a tell. Baldwin cannot engage his man down the field because it is a pop pass to Kearse. Baldwin's guy figures it out, heads for Kearse, short gain.

Followed by 2 more empty sets and 2nd and 3rd down. The 3rd down play features poor pass blocking by Willson, which is bad execution, but if you have a pass play where the key is Willson blocking, well the OC should have his head examined.

I see bad execution all the way around there. Schilling flinching and Willson missing his block is bad execution. I suppose you could say the play calling in those situations was bad execution on Bevel's part. I just don't think that panic is an appropriate response to this game. Even with all the bad sh!t that happened we still almost won. This team is very close to 5 and 0 despite playing some crappy stretches of football. It doesn't seem all that different than last year except we pulled three rabbits out of the hat, Houston, Tampa Bay and St Louis.

SC

 

[Scottemojo]

I think it would be a major mistake to make big changes to how we play. I know no one cares what I have to say, meh. Brocks Chalk Talk and Scottie Mojo all 22 clearly show that we just didn't execute. We were just off by a bit. I know it doesn't pay to point to one or a few plays, but that is the difference in this game. Not that we didn't run ML enough or that we have injuries. 3 more first downs and we are talking a different kind of smack. DeMarco Murray had 69 yards with a 2.9 YPC with 4 mins and change to go. We stop the 3rd and 20 and get the ball back, different kind of smack. I know that play is no guarantee that we win, but we at least burn some clock, maybe score. It changes the game. If you can look at a game and say there are 4 plays that would have completely altered the outcome you can't say you need to overhaul your team to win.

SC

It isn't all execution. I just spent a few minutes looking at our 4 2nd quarter plays (yeah, I know, 4 blankety blank plays) and the selection of plays is in complete denial of the game situation. Dallas had just eaten 10 minutes of game clock, our D was gassed and needing a break, and the playcalls totally ignore that.

1st down. Empty set. Dallas shows blitz with a LB jumping in Schilling's face, and he flinches.
5 yards, repeat, this time with a trick play based off zone read. Except that this play has a tell. Baldwin cannot engage his man down the field because it is a pop pass to Kearse. Baldwin's guy figures it out, heads for Kearse, short gain.

Followed by 2 more empty sets and 2nd and 3rd down. The 3rd down play features poor pass blocking by Willson, which is bad execution, but if you have a pass play where the key is Willson blocking, well the OC should have his head examined.

I see bad execution all the way around there. Schilling flinching and Willson missing his block is bad execution. I suppose you could say the play calling in those situations was bad execution on Bevel's part. I just don't think that panic is an appropriate response to this game. Even with all the bad sh!t that happened we still almost won. This team is very close to 5 and 0 despite playing some crappy stretches of football. It doesn't seem all that different than last year except we pulled three rabbits out of the hat, Houston, Tampa Bay and St Louis.

SC

I get that, but I think there has to be a level of realism involved. A guy starting his first time ever at center facing a blitz, when all 22 people on the field know a pass play is coming because of an empty set, yeah, he didn't execute, but should he be in that spot to begin with? Should Bevell call a deep shot play with Willson blocking the edge, ever? Should you run a play like the pop to Kearse that totally relies on the ignorance of a defensive player? And should you be exploring that area of your playcall sheet at all when your D just spent all but 5 of the last 20 minutes of gameplay on the field?


I'm not panicked at all. I don't want Bevell fired, that would be the wrong move. I do want him corrected by his boss, who has done it before when Bevell got too cute with the hurry up offense becoming a staple in 2011.

 

[kearly]

Should Bevell call a deep shot play with Willson blocking the edge, ever?

I was really surprised that Seattle never used Gilliam (to my knowledge). The step down in athleticism from him to Miller is fairly small, and all it might take is one completion to him for defenses to give him minimal respect as an actual TE. Tackling a 300 pounder who can move probably isn't the easiest thing in the world.

And besides, if you are going empty set, you are pretty much telegraphing pass anyway. It seems weird that Seattle recognized Gilliam's usefulness by declaring him a TE the week before the game, then never used him in the few snaps where he was of obvious use.

 

[hawk45]

SMFH 3 empty sets in a row. Unreal. I now relinquish the floor to anyone who wants to repeat the argument that the lack of lynch was so we could take advantage of the stacked box.

If Wilson presents such a difficulty for the OC how come bevell trots out the empty sets like he has manning or Brady?

 

[Largent80]

According to some on this forum we are having a Bevell witch hunt. If everyone outside of a small handful of people is saying the same thing then quite possibly it may be true?

We all agree it was more than play calling, however the 2nd quarter was enough for a whole game for me. The same thing at the SD game. I was there and I couldn't believe the play calls under those circumstances. SD got it right, and got the win.

 

[StoneCold]

I get that, but I think there has to be a level of realism involved. A guy starting his first time ever at center facing a blitz, when all 22 people on the field know a pass play is coming because of an empty set, yeah, he didn't execute, but should he be in that spot to begin with? Should Bevell call a deep shot play with Willson blocking the edge, ever? Should you run a play like the pop to Kearse that totally relies on the ignorance of a defensive player? And should you be exploring that area of your playcall sheet at all when your D just spent all but 5 of the last 20 minutes of gameplay on the field?


I'm not panicked at all. I don't want Bevell fired, that would be the wrong move. I do want him corrected by his boss, who has done it before when Bevell got too cute with the hurry up offense becoming a staple in 2011.

I agree, make some changes, I just don't think they need to be very big. My comments weren't aimed at you and you are far more knowledgeable about the individual players abilities and how they can properly be used than I, but I would say these guys are professionals and even though it's his first start you shouldn't alter the call just because a 4th year player might flinch. In Willson's case does he always miss that block? If so, then you really shouldn't have him in there on any play where he's required to block and that sounds like a pretty useless TE. I really don't know. Is he that bad? Perhaps using Gilliam in those cases could be one of the moves.

SC

 

[RolandDeschain]

If Wilson presents such a difficulty for the OC how come bevell trots out the empty sets like he has manning or Brady?

Even McDaniels with Brady as his QB passes without an empty backfield the vast majority of the time, just to help keep defenses guessing.

The NFL percentage of plays with an empty backfield is an astounding...

6.3%. Most of those are probably in 3rd down situations, too. I'm not against empty backfield formations occasionally, but since it so obviously telegraphs "passing play", you need to try creative things with it half the time you do it and for the love of God don't do it three times in a row the way we did.

Couple of Football Outsiders articles on it, and they point out that only a few elite passing teams have regular success when they do empty backfield plays:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-a ... backfields
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/walkth ... ty-premise

 

[Tical21]

I really think the only reason we do it is to force teams to telegraph their coverage, in an attempt to help Russell know exactly what he's facing. I am quite certain that in times like this, the coordinator and QB get together, and if Russell thinks it is helping him, they will keep doing it.

 

[hawk45]

So by third down, when the empty set had been employed twice already leading to third and long, you think they called it a third time in a row so they could feel out dallas's coverage?

 

[BraveHeartFan]

Agree with almost all of this except for Richard Sherman. I thought once he went to press man coverage shadowing Dez he played fantastic. Romo threw his way a lot.

Maybe my standards of Sherman are higher than others. I'm counting the DPI as a "got beat" play. In half a game covering Dez, he was beat 3 times one on one, as opposed to zero PDs or INTs for Sherman. Over a full game, that would be five or six victories in Dez's column.

They lined up across from each other on 48 snaps. That's far more than half a game

Of those 48 snaps 26 were running plays. Only 6 were directed at Dez when covered by Sherm. Of the 6 attempts he beat Sherm 3 times for good yardage and drew 2 DPI. Sherm had no pass defensed or INT.
I have to side with Kearly on this one.

Yes, Dez is a top receiver and Richard didn't allow a many big plays. However, the bottom line is Sherman will come away once again with pedestrian stats. At years end he will not be regarded as the top corner if the statistics don't support it.
What's more important is the notion that you use him to shut down a portion of the right side of the field all game long is not necessarily smart either. Any team can assign a lesser receiver to occupy the left corner's area just to cancel out Sherm's talent. It is effectively a DNP for Sherm if teams don't look his way which is what GB did. Yesterday we saw another negative outcome from this strategy which is that Maxwell has been doing all the heavy lifting which results in injury or failure.
IMO, a positive that came out of this game is that we are finally moving Sherman around to involve him more in the game. We need him to scratch and claw for plays against the best wide receivers if we can. Critics who knock Richard for playing only a part of the field have a valid point. Yesterday was a step up and I applaud Richard and Dan Quinn for adjusting BECAUSE THEY HAD TO.

Man I must be completely forgetting spots in the game because I honestly don't recall a third catch by Dez on Sherman. I could have swore I only saw 2. I know he only caught 4 balls the whole game and I know one for sure was in the middle of the field before Maxwell got hurt and Sherman was covering him. I don't recall that other catch being on Sherman.

And I don't remember 2 DPI on him either. I recall him getting a bogus tripping penalty on the first catch Dez made on him in which all he did was shoe string tackle Dez. Sucked to because that's a TD for Dez if he didn't make that play but none the less.

When did the DPI's happen cause I seriously don't recall those.

 

[BraveHeartFan]

I agree with you Hans. Take care of our division and Hawks will be fine.

To add to your thoughts of errors made by Seattle I saw a lot of attempted tackles high at the shoulders and trying for the ball, which led to a lot of extra yards for Dallas. I agree with a lot of other posts that say we need to get back to basics, take their legs out.

This is all adjustable and its only week 6. Lets take a look at it again by week 9-10.

I have confidence in this group and they'll rise!

Yeah, because DeMarco Murray has a notorious problem with fumbling. I had him on my fantasy team a few years back and he would have these games where he'd put up 120 yards rushing and a TD, then kill his own fantasy score with 2 late fumbles. And that was a regular problem. Like almost every week. It was very frustrating. One second he's got 22 fantasy points and you're killing your opponent, a few minutes later, he's got 10 points and you're cussing at your television along with the Dallas fans.

I noticed Seattle going for the strips on every run and it was obvious they were going after the fumble versus tackles. If you go back and watch, Sherman wasn't doing that, he was just wrapping up and tackling. Just one of the ways he's such a great defender for us.

Murray fumbled on one play without even being touched, he was just running and bobbled it up into the air. Lucky for Dallas, he was on the sideline and the ball flew out of bounds. There was a DB right there who would have grabbed that fumble had Murray been just a few yards away from the sideline.

Just to expound on Murray: this is why I think Dallas won't be a serious postseason contender. They're always strong early because Murray is always healthy early, but he ALWAYS breaks down around Week 8. Dallas will start strong, but they're going to fade once Romo starts choking it up in December (as usual) and Murray is injured (as usual).

I went up and looked up Demarco's stats it says he's had 3 fumbles. Not sure how accurate ESPN.com is but it says he only has only 5 fumble in 3 years. That's not a fumbling problem. This year? He's done it in nearly every game and that is what you call a fumbling problem.

I think Dallas will be there at the end. Its hard not to be. If they only relied on Romo throwing 50 times a game or Murray than i'd agree. But they rely on that offensive line. And as long as that offensive line is blocking they should be there win the post season. They just need Romo to make key throws and to help them get out of games when they are losing. So far they are 5-1 doing it.

And the reason I say Demarco isn't as vital to them as you think because I saw Randle come in and have the biggest run of the night. Clearly their offensive line is opening up holes for any running back that's back there. Dunbar as well.

Seahawks will get their shot at the Cowboys again this season. That's my prediction anyway.

Brother I'll be as tickled as a person could be if we're playing Seattle again this year because that likely means we made the NFC Championship game which would be a huge step for the Dallas Cowboys in the right direction.

I'll agree with you to a large degree about the O-Line as well. It's a beast. I think Murray is a damn good back, I love the way he runs, but it's been shown, more than just this last weekend, that Randle and Dunbar can also run behind this line. This line is damn good and the best part is they're very very young and just starting to gell together. I like that the most.

I'm not sold on Dallas being there at the end in the NFC Championship game with the Hawks just yet though. We still have some massive questions on offense and because of the way this schedule has worked out, with our next three games at home, we have a brutal 3 out of 4 on the road late in the year.

I'm liking what I'm seeing from the Cowboys though. They appear to be headed in the right direction.

 

[RolandDeschain]

So by third down, when the empty set had been employed twice already leading to third and long, you think they called it a third time in a row so they could feel out dallas's coverage?

No wonder it worked so well!

 

[Tical21]

So by third down, when the empty set had been employed twice already leading to third and long, you think they called it a third time in a row so they could feel out dallas's coverage?

Yes I do. There is no easier way to decipher man vs. zone than to put Marshawn out wide.