Random thoughts on the Denver preseason game

[lvnginhwktwn]

I think Wilson woke up a little more sore this morning than he's use to.

 

[scutterhawk]

I think what I took away from the game was that our depth is still going to be pretty good and our rookies are as raw as expected. It seemed to me that many of Seattle's 2's played against Denver's 1's and held their own if didn't dominate, then our 3's against their 2's, and so on. Since we'll go "2" deep at every position (22 players x 2) with an extra 6 bonus players, I don't worry much about the 3 group. Most of them will be cut (though I'm sure they'll still be picked up by other teams.). Not that it isn't fun to have someone to get excited about. (Allen Bradford, anyone?)

Even then, I think they were told to work on a number of things whereas you got the feeling Denver just really really wanted to win. (Resorting to cheap shots and multiple drives with 'better' players to do so. I feel like Denver's focus on Seattle is really going to hurt them this year. I bet they lose their second game of the season since they'll be so concerned with Week 3 at Century Link.) This does hurt our evaluation, too, even as it leads to the next paragraph.

We have seen where our 2013 and 2014 players need to improve, which will help the coaching staff get them there. Player development of the raw material is huge, as has been our rallying cry for Caroll's excellence. We know too much what to expect, and it seems as if people believe backups will suddenly get there so that the entire team consists of Super Bowl starters rather than just quality depth.

Your posts has me thinking (owe!) :34853_doh:
I'm curious if it' possible for Pete to stash many players that he might be wanting to keep this Year.

 

[billio155]

Pryor is fine when everything works the way it is supposed to; clean pocket, good route...etc. But he looks confused and unsure of himself when the play breaks down. He also has a nasty habit of starring down his receiver pre-snap. If the route is supposed to go to the slot receiver then he stands under center and eyeballs the receiver like "ok he is going to run to this spot, I just have to throw it to spot x." It was so bad I started guessing which side he was going to throw to. He is an amazing athlete, but I don't think he has the mental aptitude to handle the job. I don't know if anyone noticed the shot of Bevell trying to show him film on the sideline, but if you did, you saw a disinterested guy who to quick glance and then starred at the ground. Meanwhile Wilson was on the other side of Bevell studying the film of a play he wasn't even involved in. He's not going to make the team.

 

[taco40]

Okay I watched it again. I partially retract my statement.

The target was Ricardo Lockette. Who was open enough if Pryor throws him open. Unfortunately, Prior throws a relative touch pass which (appears to) allow #42 of Denver to recover and swat the ball away. So no blame for Lockette. Some credit for #42 for closing and making a clutch play, and some raspberry for Pryor who placed the ball in the center of Lockette's chest instead of a couple feet outside.

I am still okay with the ballsiness aspect of the decision given the low success rate presented in a 4th down red zone scenario, and we've seen numerous occasions when Wilson made similar throws in very tight game situations, mostly with success. When the throw was made, Lockette was reasonably open, but Pryor still should have targeted more cautiously anyway. I am glad that Pryor made this mistake in a preseason game.

There was one series that stood out in, I think, was the third quarter. Pryor showed little confidence in his protection and took off a few times. On one such scramble to the left on third down he came around the end with his shoulders squared up ready to throw and Lockette running towards the sideline. I'm still trying to figure out why he wouldn't throw the ball to the outside where only Lockette could have a chance at catching it for a first down. Instead he ran for a 2-3 yard gain and then out of bounds. Could it be that Oakland unloaded him because he is too prone to try to do it all himself as he often tried to do in college? It seems to me that passing for a first down at the sidelines is a fundamental of quarterbacking. :les:

 

[Smelly McUgly]

Pryor was the worst thing about this game. It's like watching Russell Wilson if Wilson immediately stopped looking downfield and panicked once he wheeled out of the pocket. Oh, and if Wilson was below average inside the pocket.

Otherwise, not too worried about this slop. The refereeing worries me more than anything our team did.

 

[Scottemojo]

Zach Miller got his lunch eaten by Ware. In fact, the most passive player on the field might have been Miller.

Keiro Small is the most aggressive pass protector on the team. One play, he destroyed an engaged defensive end. Just flattened him. He looks for someone to kill every play. 32 on Denver had a hold on Small's jersey, one of the only defensive holds in the NFL not called last night.

Demarious Thomas was pretty damn pissy all night. I think 6 months of SB replays might have gotten under his hide. Maxwell won't be playing a soft leverage like that in the regular season, and the inside leverage will lead Thomas straight to Kam Track in a few weeks. Me thinks he won't be quite so salty then. Orlando Franklin was equally a bitch all night.

Not a bit worried about Marsh. He showed great hand fighting. He is way ahead of most rookie pass rushers.

Pryor is accurate with his feet set when throwing down the seams. So what. His accuracy on the move and to the edges sucks.

Richardson is going to be a smooth operator. His head is in the game, he got up as fast as he could to get the ball to the ref with the clock dwindling. Smart.

Neither Turbin or Michael trust their blocking. They have to one cut and go. Even if there is little there.

Winston is soft. No real nasty to his game at all. Technically sound, but soft. Britt gives up to much ground in his backpedal. He doesn't have to, his feet are quick enough. More slide step, less backpedal, Britt.

Nice coverage a couple of times by Shead. A bit late reacting when he was at safety.

With us facing our pre season opponents later this year, I expect very vanilla D and the softest of press. The offsides stuff was pretty stupid. The personal fouls were dumb. Tharold will be getting a fine from the league, hopefully that curbs his stupidity.

 

[Jville]

Run blocking: Derrick Coleman & Stephen Schilling

There were a couple of plays in 2an quarter that stood out in my eyes while using 2 back personnel. They featured excellent combination blocks by FB Derrick Coleman and OG Stephen Schilling on the right side. It included good cooperative second level work between the two of them. I'm certain Cable will spot how well they work together in producing positive yardage during his film review. I enjoyed it.

Rookie conduct and professionalism: Paul Richardson

Richardson is different playing a position populated with far to many divas. I really like the focus and bearing his young man has shown to date. When he hands the ball back to the officials, it brings back memories of a hall of fame receiver.

 

[EastCoastHawksFan]

I thought our 4th string RB Bronson showed a lot. I'm not sure why you would write him off so quickly knowing what our team is all about .

Turbin showed me nothing , I wouldn't be surprised if we put him on the block and maybe a team like the Jaguars snatch him up

 

[fenderbender123]

I seem to recall Denver moving the ball pretty well against us last year in preseason. I think turnovers wound up being the reason we blew them out but they did have success throwing it against our secondary. The Super Bowl wasa totally different story.

 

[HunnyBadger]

I seem to recall Denver moving the ball pretty well against us last year in preseason. I think turnovers wound up being the reason we blew them out but they did have success throwing it against our secondary. The Super Bowl wasa totally different story.

Got a chuckle from your avatar.

 

[Tical21]

Richardson is a good receiver. He isn't a one-trick pony. Anybody that can put up the numbers he put up while having 6 DB's watching your every move for every play of your college career has to have something. Good note from Scotte about his awareness at the end of the half.

I'm going to watch again, and I'm going to focus on Britt, Bailey, the FB's, Coyle and the young D-Linemen. If somebody was making some movement, I'm going to find who it was.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

My big takeaway from this game was that, for one game at least, Seattle's backups no longer dominate other team's backups, and the Broncos backups are especially uninspiring so this was a bit of an eye opener. As for the rest I'll just jump into it randomly.

The 33 yard extra points are an eyesore. What a stupid experiment. You know what the NFL didn't need? More games decided by things like extra points and officiating.

Don't care at all about the loss. This game turned on a phantom PI on 1st and 35, Cassius Marsh getting an open shot at Osweiler and letting him run for 18 yards instead of obliterating him, and two brutal game losing drops on the final drive. I thought Denver actually played better anyway, but Seattle hung in there because of a completely ridiculous number of penalties on Denver.

The Good

Paul Richardson could use some work on his run after catch, but otherwise he was very impressive tonight. He separated with ease and looked natural as a receiver. He seemed to only be targeted on short routes for some reason, but he still looked good.

A few drops by camp bodies aside, our pass catchers looked very good in general. Helfet and Lockette had some nice catches over the middle.

Tjack is still pretty good.

Terrell Pryor looked surprisingly good especially in the pocket. He would have guided Seattle to a win if not for some rotten luck in deep in the red zone. His location is slightly off, but his arm and decision making were pretty good, and his accuracy was non-horrible. Love the mobility, that's nothing new.

The starting run defense shut down Hillman as you would expect.

Brock Coyle had a good game. Great instincts, decent hitter. He looked like Lofa-lite.

Hausch money.

The Mariners played a game that actually mattered and won 13-3!

The Bad

The run defense was abysmal in the second half.

The pass rush was abysmal when the "starters" were out, though I don't remember seeing much of Avril/Bennett. Greg Scruggs and Mayowa were non-factors. Schofield got upfield a few times but most mostly a non-factor.

Seattle seemed terrified of defensive backfield penalties and as a result Denver WRs were open by a body length within 3 seconds nearly 100% of the time. Seattle was very hands off in coverage and it had a big impact on their effectiveness vs. a team like Denver. Then again, it's very possible that Seattle did this to rope-a-dope Denver for week 3.

The officiating, even though it mostly benefited Seattle. Too many flags. Borderline unwatchable. Definitely worse than last preseason and that is saying a lot.

Robert Turbin couldn't beat Denver's not so athletic defenders to the edge, and was his usual ineffective self on north/south runs. I laughed when people at training camp compared Turbin to Julius Jones two years ago. Now I'm starting to see their point (assuming you picture JJ with bigger biceps and less balance).

I don't know if Ware added weight to play full back but he's lost a step he couldn't afford to lose. His athleticism was fringe last year but I loved how he made up for it in other areas. But this year he looks like Kendrys Morales running out there. Slooooow. He even appears to have lost quite a bit of his power too.

Disappointing game for Scruggs, Mayowa, and Brooks.

Not sure if good or bad

Christine Michael started well, though he once again showed his tendency to slide or fall down when more yards were there. Even his best run of the night involved him quitting on a TD despite the defender being in terrible position to stop him at the 1 yard line. Lynch just gets in right there 100 times out of 100. Fortunately, Michael would punch it in shortly after with a good short yardage run.

Seattle's best RB on the night was their 4th string guy who is (relatively) undersized and clearly has no shot of making the team as he does not even fit Seattle's profile. Seattle's run blocking was pretty bad in the first half and other than Michael turning poor blocking into 3 yard gains occasionally there wasn't much to be happy about in the run game from Michael/Turbin/Ware.

Marsh looks like a 3-4 OLB to me playing DT. Against decent protection he was a non-factor, but he took advantage of some blown blocks against scrubs to have a productive game. Marsh needs a lot of space to make plays.

Marsh doesn't look like a 265-270 pound player to me. By the eyeball test he looks roughly the same size as Mayowa. His blown sack on Osweiler highlighted Marsh's lack of size and power for his position. But even an undersized LB needs to make that play, much less a DT/DE hybrid. Bobby Wagner demolishes QBs on plays like that and he's been around 235 the last couple seasons.

Bailey is so weird. He has the body of a pure road grader and doesn't have the fastest feet. But he's rock solid in pass pro while being kinda weak in power blocking situations.

Britt had a better game than I thought he would but has the usual anchor issues against the bull rush. His run blocking was disappointing. He was bad overall, but I chalk that up as a minor positive since I expected him to be a disaster against Denver's pass rushers.

Sweezy was the only starter to start and he was pulled quickly. This backup line was actually okay in pass protection to my surprise, but mostly sucked in run blocking until Denver went full camp body in the 2nd half.

Not that I blame him much, but I thought Wilson was our least effective QB tonight because he was paranoid and didn't trust his protection as much as he maybe should have. TJack and Pryor stepped up in the pocket more and were more
effective as passers. When our OL is at less than its best I think it hurts Wilson more than his backups because IMO he plays his best when relaxed. It's fun to think about how good Wilson could be this year if our OL improves and in turn Russell trusts them more.

Lynch was out and only one oline starter was in (if you don't count Britt) so our 2s were actually in with their ones and we still were ahead when the ones came off.

 

[loafoftatupu]

I think Wilson woke up a little more sore this morning than he's use to.

genius!

 

[kearly]

Why should any form of scoring be completely automatic? Either remove extra point kicks and make TDs worth 7, or move them back even farther, IMO. I think it'd be interesting if they were 45-yard attempts.

I still remember a game in 2008 when the eventual 0-12 Huskies scored a last second TD on a Jake Locker run. All they needed was an extra point to head to overtime, but because they celebrated the play (understandable), they added 15 yards on the PAT. Which they failed to convert. Worst ending to a game ever.

I'm fine with automatic PATs, but potentially deciding a game on a point after is a really really bad idea. You think people hate ties, they will hate losing a game on an arbitrarily long PAT a thousand times more.

I mean, can you imagine the NBA forcing Damian Lillard to sink a free throw after his game winning three in game six just to prove he deserved to win? Just a really bad idea by the league, if they go through with it there will eventually be games decided by it in dramatic fashion.

 

[kearly]

Pryor is fine when everything works the way it is supposed to; clean pocket, good route...etc. But he looks confused and unsure of himself when the play breaks down. He also has a nasty habit of starring down his receiver pre-snap. If the route is supposed to go to the slot receiver then he stands under center and eyeballs the receiver like "ok he is going to run to this spot, I just have to throw it to spot x." It was so bad I started guessing which side he was going to throw to. He is an amazing athlete, but I don't think he has the mental aptitude to handle the job. I don't know if anyone noticed the shot of Bevell trying to show him film on the sideline, but if you did, you saw a disinterested guy who to quick glance and then starred at the ground. Meanwhile Wilson was on the other side of Bevell studying the film of a play he wasn't even involved in. He's not going to make the team.

I'm highlighting this quote because I agree, and also because it sounds like you are describing Colin Kaepernick. Stares down receivers, struggles when he loses structure, amazing athlete, questionable mental facility. And then you look at his numbers in the game, and he had an 8.6 YPA thanks mostly to throws from the pocket. And then he ends the game on an end zone INT.

Of course, Kaepernick has enough accuracy to make up for these issues, Pryor does not. If Pryor is going to make it in the NFL, he will have to find a way to either improve his ball placement or be schemed into situations where his lack of accuracy is less evident. For example, his ability to throw on the move is pretty bad. His high YPA in this game was probably a result of him opting to run when he left the pocket instead of throwing an inaccurate pass.

 

[WendellWent]

We had 10 guys out, bronco's had 0. My impression is that had an effect on things. I really don't agree with much the OP said, but thats pretty standard. I do however appreciate the effort put into the post.

Yeah I don't get it, feel like I watched a different game than the OP.

 

[WendellWent]

Why should any form of scoring be completely automatic? Either remove extra point kicks and make TDs worth 7, or move them back even farther, IMO. I think it'd be interesting if they were 45-yard attempts.

I still remember a game in 2008 when the eventual 0-12 Huskies scored a last second TD on a Jake Locker run. All they needed was an extra point to head to overtime, but because they celebrated the play (understandable), they added 15 yards on the PAT. Which they missed. Worst ending to a game ever.

I'm fine with automatic PATs, but potentially deciding a game on a point after is a really really bad idea. You think people hate ties, they will hate losing a game on an arbitrarily long PAT a thousand times more.

This is the modern day football fan. Just a head scratcher. I bet you root for high draft picks once the Hawks are eliminated from playoff contention, too.

 

[bbsplitter]

I thought our 4th string RB Bronson showed a lot. I'm not sure why you would write him off so quickly knowing what our team is all about .

Turbin showed me nothing , I wouldn't be surprised if we put him on the block and maybe a team like the Jaguars snatch him up

I don't really know if I can go along with Bronson showing a LOT, he basically bulldozed in a straight line ahead in power scheme blocking, and wasn't really required to make any reads. But yeah I would definitely agree he is always a possibility especially on this "always compete" team.

Turbin was his usual self, and considering that didn't result on him going on the block last year....

 

[hawk45]

Have to agree with OP that RW didn't trust his protection much, and that Tjack and Pryor don't get as antsy behind bad protection (because I believe they can see a bit more when the pocket isn't as clean) but I thought Wilson was the most effective passer, despite that, by far.

When Pryor broke the pocket, he was no threat at all and made poor decisions running and throwing. Russ was able to function outside the pocket, no surprise there.

Pryor looks like he looked in Oakland. He can string together a few good plays despite less-than-stellar accuracy, but the game is too fast for him and when it's time to make that one play to extend the drive, he fails.

Pryor's success came late in the game against nobodies. Russ played better his rookie season against the 1s in preseason (obviously since he won the starting job).

I'm hoping Pete's fascination with Pryor is exhausted sooner rather than later. Just don't think he can be a contributor, even in a backup role, where Tjack is solid.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Have to agree with OP that RW didn't trust his protection much, and that Tjack and Pryor don't get as antsy behind bad protection (because I believe they can see a bit more when the pocket isn't as clean) but I thought Wilson was the most effective passer, despite that, by far.

When Pryor broke the pocket, he was no threat at all and made poor decisions running and throwing. Russ was able to function outside the pocket, no surprise there.

Pryor looks like he looked in Oakland. He can string together a few good plays despite less-than-stellar accuracy, but the game is too fast for him and when it's time to make that one play to extend the drive, he fails.

Pryor's success came late in the game against nobodies. Russ played better his rookie season against the 1s in preseason (obviously since he won the starting job).

I'm hoping Pete's fascination with Pryor is exhausted sooner rather than later. Just don't think he can be a contributor, even in a backup role, where Tjack is solid.

You can't assess that in a vacuum. Russell got nailed pretty hard at least twice. Add-in the fact that he was playing behind 2nd stringers (who were lined up against a first string DL) and it's silly to ding him for not 'trusting' his OL.