Revisiting the call - last play of Super Bowl XLIX

[Grahamhawker]

Patronizing the playcall now is as useless as seeing in hindsight that the play was doomed as soon as Browner lined up in front of Kearse and/or someone (?) realized the intended target was Lockett.

 

[Fudwamper]

Yea i love this topic!!!

I found some never before footage of that play that might bring more perspective to the conversion. What were we thinking? How did this play get into the books?

 

[Largent80]

We have now entered squirrel territory......

 

[hawkfan68]

Vancanhawksfan, In the locked thread you stated in one of your posts, please allow me to rephrase, that you believe handing off to Marshawn Lynch from 1 yd line is a higher risk than throwing the ball. The only evidence you give to support that is that Lynch fumbled in the 2013 NFCCG. Lynch fumbled only once....yet you believe that giving him the ball is a high risk? He's scored more touchdowns than he's fumbled from that distance, yet giving him the ball is a higher risk? Hmmm....I disagree.

I don't believe the call to pass was bad. I do believe the option chosen to whom to pass to was horrible. Wilson is learning and he shouldn't have even been put in position to make that decision at that point in the game. That's why it falls on Bevell in my mind and you can lump Carroll in to an extent. But if you watch replays of the game with sound, you can hear Carroll asking what's the play call....even Carroll had no idea what was called. So it leads me to believe it was Bevell who made the call.

 

[chris98251]

The pass play percentage I would think were not inside slants to 5th on the depth chart WR's that are typically on the edge and not inside, we throw a lot of roll outs and fades as well as options. Also red zone passes are from the 20 yard line in not just the 1, how many of those statistics were from the 1 or inside the 1 against former team mates.

On the 1 and trying to run a inside slant with the defense defending the run creates almost 22 men in the pass window to intercept. knockdown or any other number of things. 22 men in that area and throwing the ball is what is considered the stupidity of the play, along with calling it to a guy that plays the edge and not the inside and is used to using his body to protect the ball, additionally knowing Browner has and had practice and seen it several times was another bad thought process. If your going to give that look have a different primary option. Browner knew exactly what and who it was going to and how to blow it up.

That's why saying a roll out, fade, option pass, or yes handing the ball off to the best back in the game at the one yard line, or even a fake to Lynch and roll around dive by Wilson would have been a better option then a telegram to Browner and that play call.

 

[Sports Hernia]

It was a DUMB play call period. Passing on that play was an unnecessary risk that didn't need to be taken. NE was 31st (see next to last) in goal line defense. The play before it took 5 or 6 Pats to bring down Beastmode after a 4 yard gain, they wanted nothing to do with tackling Lynch. Lynch was the best RB in the league in yards after contact, I don't care if NE had 14 men in the box, you run the ball with ML and score a TD and win XLIX. IMHO it really is that simple.

With that being said, it's time to move on and look forward to winning SB 50.

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

Vancanhawksfan, In the locked thread you stated in one of your posts, please allow me to rephrase, that you believe handing off to Marshawn Lynch from 1 yd line is a higher risk than throwing the ball. The only evidence you give to support that is that Lynch fumbled in the 2013 NFCCG. Lynch fumbled only once....yet you believe that giving him the ball is a high risk? He's scored more touchdowns than he's fumbled from that distance, yet giving him the ball is a higher risk? Hmmm....I disagree.

I don't believe the call to pass was bad. I do believe the option chosen to whom to pass to was horrible. Wilson is learning and he shouldn't have even been put in position to make that decision at that point in the game. That's why it falls on Bevell in my mind and you can lump Carroll in to an extent. But if you watch replays of the game with sound, you can hear Carroll asking what's the play call....even Carroll had no idea what was called. So it leads me to believe it was Bevell who made the call.

I didn't state that handing off to Marshawn was a higher risk call to imply I thought it was "high" risk or that it wasn't a good option. I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of everyone calling for Bevell's head because of him calling the play that he did instead of calling Marshawn's number. They are making opinions based solely on the result of the play rather than analysing and critiquing his decision based on the evidence leading up the play call.

The pass he called was a low risk pass. Period. There were no defenders in the middle of the field. Butler was positioned on the other side of Browner and Kearse to where Lockette's route was going to lead him.

Statistically speaking... handing off to Marshawn was higher risk and there is evidence to show this. Statistically speaking throwing any pass was necessarily lower risk based on historical fact over the past year because 0% of passers in the NFL threw an INT this year...that is a fact.

Was Lockette the best option to put in that position? Maybe not. But I contend that it wouldn't have mattered who it was that what there - virtually no Seahawks receiver would have contemplated Butler being in the position he put himself in. That was a freak play. Lockette got knocked off the ball not because he was soft...he got knocked off the ball because he didn't know Butler was there and any receiver will get knocked over if they get hit without knowing what was coming.

 

[Sealake80]

I thought your thread about Marshawn fumbling, the year before, from the goal line (NFC Championship) was a great reminder.

I was going to post in that thread but it got locked. So many locked threads lately. I love clicking on them just to see why they were locked and all the comments that made it in before locking. LOL.

Oh yeah, If your tired of reading about "the call" then I got an idea for you. Don't click and open that thread. I'm blind to you. It's nice that people are thinking about the Seahawks and trying to process and converse during the off season! :th2thumbs:

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

The pass play percentage I would think were not inside slants to 5th on the depth chart WR's that are typically on the edge and not inside, we throw a lot of roll outs and fades as well as options. Also red zone passes are from the 20 yard line in not just the 1, how many of those statistics were from the 1 or inside the 1 against former team mates.

On the 1 and trying to run a inside slant with the defense defending the run creates almost 22 men in the pass window to intercept. knockdown or any other number of things. 22 men in that area and throwing the ball is what is considered the stupidity of the play, along with calling it to a guy that plays the edge and not the inside and is used to using his body to protect the ball, additionally knowing Browner has and had practice and seen it several times was another bad thought process. If your going to give that look have a different primary option. Browner knew exactly what and who it was going to and how to blow it up.

That's why saying a roll out, fade, option pass, or yes handing the ball off to the best back in the game at the one yard line, or even a fake to Lynch and roll around dive by Wilson would have been a better option then a telegram to Browner and that play call.

In the NFL there were zero turnovers on pass plays from the one yard line this year. Zero. None. Nada.

I truly believe that if Marshawn was given the call and he fumbled the ball all of you would call for Bevell's head for being too predictable, or not recognizing that the Hawks convert a higher percentage by passing than running the ball, or that Bevell should have known that the last time Marshawn was asked to run in from the 1 yard line in a Championship game that he fumbled the ball and turned it over....

...or that if he called Wilson to throw a fade, or a roll out, or an option pass and it was a turn over then you'd say the exact same things that you are saying for calling the slant pass.

I think you would have criticized him for any play call that didn't succeed, and that if the slant did complete that he would have been called brilliant by all the same people.

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

I thought your thread about Marshawn fumbling, the year before, from the goal line (NFC Championship) was a great reminder.

I was going to post in that thread but it got locked. So many locked threads lately. I love clicking on them just to see why they were locked and all the comments that made it in before locking. LOL.

Oh yeah, If your tired of reading about "the call" then I got an idea for you. Don't click and open that thread. I'm blind to you. It's nice that people are thinking about the Seahawks and trying to process and converse during the off season! :th2thumbs:

Edited for policy Breech

 

[Sac]

I truly believe that if Marshawn was given the call and he fumbled the ball all of you would call for Bevell's head for being too predictable, or not <blah blah blah>

Really? All of us? Do you work for the Psychic Hotline or Ms Cleo? Can I have the lotto numbers?

Personally, I was ok with a pass play. But not a slant from the 1 yard line. If Bevell had called a play-action roll out, and at least forced the defense to respect the threat of Lynch, that would have opened up a passing opportunity or allowed Russ to run it in himself.

 

[OkieHawk]

Seriously, who cares anymore about this dead horse? Nothing new has come from this discussion, just let it go.

 

[chris98251]

The pass play percentage I would think were not inside slants to 5th on the depth chart WR's that are typically on the edge and not inside, we throw a lot of roll outs and fades as well as options. Also red zone passes are from the 20 yard line in not just the 1, how many of those statistics were from the 1 or inside the 1 against former team mates.

On the 1 and trying to run a inside slant with the defense defending the run creates almost 22 men in the pass window to intercept. knockdown or any other number of things. 22 men in that area and throwing the ball is what is considered the stupidity of the play, along with calling it to a guy that plays the edge and not the inside and is used to using his body to protect the ball, additionally knowing Browner has and had practice and seen it several times was another bad thought process. If your going to give that look have a different primary option. Browner knew exactly what and who it was going to and how to blow it up.

That's why saying a roll out, fade, option pass, or yes handing the ball off to the best back in the game at the one yard line, or even a fake to Lynch and roll around dive by Wilson would have been a better option then a telegram to Browner and that play call.

In the NFL there were zero turnovers on pass plays from the one yard line this year. Zero. None. Nada.

I truly believe that if Marshawn was given the call and he fumbled the ball all of you would call for Bevell's head for being too predictable, or not recognizing that the Hawks convert a higher percentage by passing than running the ball, or that Bevell should have known that the last time Marshawn was asked to run in from the 1 yard line in a Championship game that he fumbled the ball and turned it over....

...or that if he called Wilson to throw a fade, or a roll out, or an option pass and it was a turn over then you'd say the exact same things that you are saying for calling the slant pass.

I think you would have criticized him for any play call that didn't succeed, and that if the slant did complete that he would have been called brilliant by all the same people.

Actually I would not have complained about a Lynch handoff, we were running on them and then it's power to power, you know it's coming, we had like 18 inches to go. A fade or a roll out gives multiple options and is not throwing into a 22 man mess where anything can happen and the WR has room to operate. Butler was waiting on Browners queue for that play. Also if he is stopped a time out and another play, initially the time was there 26 seconds is a long time, better then no time with the turnover.

You are now playing what ifs and maybe's, most here saw the play and called it a bogus call, post game interviews justify that with Browner and that they were waiting for it. Many have said a pass play was ok, just not that one to who it went to, Baldwin, Walters, or Kearse would have been a much better player in that position since they are used to catching balls in traffic and know how to use their body. If they have one of them there Butler tackles the player and doesn't see the ball. Maybe it pops up, maybe it's incomplete or maybe it's a catch, but it's a much better situation.

 

[SomersetHawk]

I thought your thread about Marshawn fumbling, the year before, from the goal line (NFC Championship) was a great reminder.

I was going to post in that thread but it got locked. So many locked threads lately. I love clicking on them just to see why they were locked and all the comments that made it in before locking. LOL.

Oh yeah, If your tired of reading about "the call" then I got an idea for you. Don't click and open that thread. I'm blind to you. It's nice that people are thinking about the Seahawks and trying to process and converse during the off season! :th2thumbs:

Edited for policy Breech.

[youtube]oXG0ePOSG5k[/youtube]

 

[Sports Hernia]

I thought your thread about Marshawn fumbling, the year before, from the goal line (NFC Championship) was a great reminder.

I was going to post in that thread but it got locked. So many locked threads lately. I love clicking on them just to see why they were locked and all the comments that made it in before locking. LOL.

Oh yeah, If your tired of reading about "the call" then I got an idea for you. Don't click and open that thread. I'm blind to you. It's nice that people are thinking about the Seahawks and trying to process and converse during the off season! :th2thumbs:

Edited for policy Breech.

Got a feeling this isn't going to end well for you if you keep this up. Mod actions and enforcement of forum rules is not to be discussed in the forums. You may want to take a breath and cool down for a bit.

 

[chet380]

Actually, this is new insight to the play that I haven't read before. I appreciate the post.

Seconded -- but nothing will change the minds of the haters.

 

[HawkFan72]

Yes, Lynch fumbled on 4th down from the 1 yard line in the 2013 NFCC.

Pete Carroll has already said they were going to run on 3rd and 4th down if necessary in the Super Bowl.

So your whole point of "maybe they passed because Lynch fumbled in 2013" makes no sense.

He fumbled on 4th down in 2013. They passed on 2nd down in the Super Bowl.

They were going to run it with Lynch on 3rd and 4th down. You hear that? They were going to run on 4th down with Lynch, just like in 2013.

There is no difference. You are comparing 2nd down to 4th down.

Line up your variables and you will see you really don't have any point to talk about. The pass in the Super Bowl didn't have anything to do with the fumble in 2013, because they were going to do the same play as 2013 on 4th down.

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

I truly believe that if Marshawn was given the call and he fumbled the ball all of you would call for Bevell's head for being too predictable, or not <blah blah blah>

Really? All of us? Do you work for the Psychic Hotline or Ms Cleo? Can I have the lotto numbers?

Personally, I was ok with a pass play. But not a slant from the 1 yard line. If Bevell had called a play-action roll out, and at least forced the defense to respect the threat of Lynch, that would have opened up a passing opportunity or allowed Russ to run it in himself.

All the haters dude - not you necessarily...you know what I meant.

I would have preferred a roll out too upon first blush. But then how PO'd would we have been if Wilson gets tackled for a loss and the play clock is running and its no longer 1 yd to go? And then everyone would have scorched Bevell for not running the ball...you know that that would have happened for sure.

The slant pass really is not a high risk pass at all. I cannot think of one time in 30 years of watching the Seahawks where we've turned the ball over on a short yardage slant near the goal line.

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

Yes, Lynch fumbled on 4th down from the 1 yard line in the 2013 NFCC.

Pete Carroll has already said they were going to run on 3rd and 4th down if necessary in the Super Bowl.

So your whole point of "maybe they passed because Lynch fumbled in 2013" makes no sense.

He fumbled on 4th down in 2013. They passed on 2nd down in the Super Bowl.

They were going to run it with Lynch on 3rd and 4th down. You hear that? They were going to run on 4th down with Lynch, just like in 2013.

There is no difference. You are comparing 2nd down to 4th down.

Line up your variables and you will see you really don't have any point to talk about.

You miss my point. Being a revisionist results based only critic is non-sensical which is exactly what I'm saying the naysayers are doing. To say the slant pass was an awful call would be no different than saying a hand off to Lynch was an awful call if he spills the ball.

 

[Sports Hernia]

The slant pass was not a risk at all? Then why did it get intercepted if there was NO risk? LOL, SMH.