Ron Jaworski's QB Countdown

[MizzouHawkGal]

Have at it...

I'm good with number five. He finally has a clue, change happens in small steps usually and for Jaws to rate him right where he belongs is quite a huge step in my opinion. Brees and Luck should be flipped though....and Bridgewater, Carr and Newton are far too low....meh.

 

[Ramfan128]

There is simply no way Wilson should be above Brees, Roethilsberger, Romo, or Rivers. I'm okay with people putting Wilson at 10th, but those 9 guys are solidly better than Wilson.

And Luck at 4 makes more sense than Wilson at 5, but I'd still put him below Berger and Brees.

 

[Ramfan128]

It's also laughable how Bradford is suddenly better than Foles. I get that the Eagles offense is more QB friendly than the Rams, but c'mon.

 

[RedAlice]

It's also laughable how Bradford is suddenly better than Foles. I get that the Eagles offense is more QB friendly than the Rams, but c'mon.

The San Diego radio sports dudes were making fun of this while I was driving yesterday. It was hilarious. They were mocking both teams wanting to sign the guy the other team wanted to get rid of before either team had even seen a snap of their new guy.

As in: they both think they have a great deal that they got rid of the horrible QB and got the good one - it was a good routine, and as all good comedy: based in fact.

As to why B is ranked higher than Foles now: very Simple. He is now not in St. Louis, he is in Philly. Pure NFL math.

 

[Trenchbroom]

There is simply no way Wilson should be above Brees, Roethilsberger, Romo, or Rivers. I'm okay with people putting Wilson at 10th, but those 9 guys are solidly better than Wilson.

Sorry, Jaws wrote that article in 2013. Catch up.

 

[Yxes1122]

The fact that RGIII is higher than Bridgewater makes me question how much tape Jaws watched. Maybe he fell asleep during the Vikings tape.

 

[rideaducati]

There is simply no way Wilson should be above Brees, Roethilsberger, Romo, or Rivers. I'm okay with people putting Wilson at 10th, but those 9 guys are solidly better than Wilson.

And Luck at 4 makes more sense than Wilson at 5, but I'd still put him below Berger and Brees.

Jaworski ranks QBs by weighting results from entire team. That is why Kaepernick was "possibly the greatest ever" a couple years ago and Brees, Rapistberger, Romo and Rivers are behind Russell.

Everyone's list is different, but finally having a QB in the conversation on the list of others is pretty nice. Russell is difficult to compare to other QBs because of his abilities beyond passing. 4300+ yards and 26 touchdowns are what Russell contributed to the Seahawks last year as a QB. Yardage was close to Rivers and 500 more than Romo when you include rushing. To each his own. Accounting for age, there is only one QB that I would trade Russell for straight up and that is Luck.

 

[Hawks46]

It's impossible to take anything Jaws says seriously after announcing Kaepernick had the potential to be the greatest quarterback in the history of the NFL and last year Nick Foles was better than Russell Wilson.

Two totally lamentable suggestions. It doesn't matter how much tape he watches -- his reputation as an evaluator has to be shot after these misguided statements. I mean, there's getting it wrong and there's getting it wrong.

Yup I'd agree with this. He pulled the trigger too quickly on Foles. It's funny, so many analysts say "he's really good, but let's see him do it 3-4 years in a row". We've heard it time and again about Wilson, but in the Foles case, you see why.

I don't have a problem with most of it. He's ranking the 2015 QBs, and how they'll do. I think Roethlisburger is too low. I don't like the guy, but he balled out last year and I think with his supporting cast, he'll be just as good this year.

I think Brees might be a bit too high. He has a worse supporting cast than last year. I honestly think Brees is still a better QB than Wilson, as I think Rivers and Big Ben are as well. But those guys don't have the deep skill talent to help them get better (other than Roethlisburger).

Looking at last year, I think 5 is high for Wilson. But he has Lynch coming back, he has a deeper, bigger WR corps, and he has Jimmy Graham. Graham is a guy that helps his QB out; he's easily good enough to boost most QBs a few slots by himself. So looking at his supporting cast, I think Wilson at 5 is about right, looking at his arm AND his legs and his ability to take over or influence a game with both.

I don't trip about the Luck thing. An valid case can be made for 4th, or 8th. Manning at 3 is too high for me, looking at how he broke down at the end of last year. Then again, if it was due to injury, 3rd seems right.

Newton seems a bit low ,but other than that the middle of the pack and the back of the pack aren't worth much angst in rankings.

 

[Threedee]

Whichever of Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, Mariota, and Winston catches fire first, is going to be the next great thing to Jaws. I actually think the middle three will be hugely successful in the NFL. Bortles will improve as JAX builds up its roster and he gains experience, while Winston's determination to succeed could eventually make him a winner. I always wonder if Jameis has impaired vision, based upon the way he squints downfield. Perhaps his turnover problem could be fixed if he looked into that?

 

[NINEster]

One through 13, the list looks good, but after that it seems as though Jaworski has lost his mind. I understand the rookies being at the bottom because they haven't done anything yet, but having to start at zero is better than some of these guys that have already proven to be really bad.

15 for Kaepernick is at least 10 spots too high on that list too. I've seen better play from Teddy Bridgwater and Carr as rookies than I have ever seen from Kaepernick.

If you can find a highlight video of Kaepernick THROWING the ball, compare it to Bridgewater and Carr highlight videos. Pay attention to passes that are thrown where only the intended WR can catch them into tight windows and poor decisions thrown into double coverage with lucky outcomes. Look closely at the timing of the throws once they reach their drop back point. Watch what the QB does when his first option isn't an option. Watch their footwork when they throw the ball and then watch how much the WR has to adjust to get to the ball.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how Kaepernick can be ranked higher than a lot of the guys on that list as a QUARTERBACK. He looks clunky and mechanical where most of the other guys on the list look fluid and comfortable.

Look, we'll never see eye to eye totally on Kaepernick. You're a Seahawk fan, and I'm a 49er fan so there's that....

But, I think we can meet halfway for a change. Let me give you some non-homer insight here:

As you all know, Kap comes from spread/pistol offenses in college.

Most 49er fans following Kap in 2011 and 2012 preseason liked the physical aspects but the entire release was REALLY clunky back then. Then the Harbaugh experiment of putting him in with Alex Smith for some series....he looked a bit better but still not franchise ready. He made a few throws here and there that were cool.

Then he was forced into action by the Rams. That game he did a good job of getting the game tied up.

And then you have that Bears game, and you're in the twilight zone. Re-watch that game if you have the courage.....a lot of awesome throws in that game, and a great patient improv TD to Crabtree in the first half. A lot of his throws came from under center, no read option.

It's going to be in your blood to hate and dis-acknowledge this as "good QB play" but the guy essentially displaced Alex Smith not after one game but after 1 or 2 quarters. His games against the Saints and Patriots that year further cemented the fact that the guy could play.

I don't know what it was, but he looked like an entirely different QB from just 2-3 months earlier.

Bottom line is this.......the production on the field spoke for itself. You say Kap had a running game and defense......well so did Wilson. Wilson won games, Kap won games.

I'll tolerate the Wilson is better than Kap narrative on the basis of wins and stuff, but you can't take two QBs on crap teams and now say they are better too, because quite frankly you could easily argue they have better QB mechanics than Wilson.

Yes, Wilson.

Crap, Niner fans used to say Scott Tolzien had better QB mechanics than Kap and maybe even Alex Smith too. Where is he these days?

Josh Johnson has a nice release too. Where is he these days?

 

[NINEster]

There is simply no way Wilson should be above Brees, Roethilsberger, Romo, or Rivers. I'm okay with people putting Wilson at 10th, but those 9 guys are solidly better than Wilson.

And Luck at 4 makes more sense than Wilson at 5, but I'd still put him below Berger and Brees.

Wilson rarely ever kills a team with pinpoint lasers. He gets you with coverage breakdowns after a long time in the pocket and 50/50 jump balls, and killer play action when accounting for Lynch.

These are all nice skillsets but not top 5 NFL QB skillsets.

You could argue that "however the job gets done, is all that matters", and that's fine when you're talking about Seattle and SF two years ago with Harbaugh. But that kind of play will not get you the Ws in big games with Green Bay/New England/New Orleans/Denver going up against some tough defenses while your own defense isn't stifling teams to 15 points per game.

Someone mentions that Kaepernick had success at one time due to a great team, but conveniently left out Wilson and the Seahawks in the same sentence.

 

[rideaducati]

There is simply no way Wilson should be above Brees, Roethilsberger, Romo, or Rivers. I'm okay with people putting Wilson at 10th, but those 9 guys are solidly better than Wilson.

And Luck at 4 makes more sense than Wilson at 5, but I'd still put him below Berger and Brees.

Wilson rarely ever kills a team with pinpoint lasers. He gets you with coverage breakdowns after a long time in the pocket and 50/50 jump balls, and killer play action when accounting for Lynch.

These are all nice skillsets but not top 5 NFL QB skillsets.

You could argue that "however the job gets done, is all that matters", and that's fine when you're talking about Seattle and SF two years ago with Harbaugh. But that kind of play will not get you the Ws in big games with Green Bay/New England/New Orleans/Denver going up against some tough defenses while your own defense isn't stifling teams to 15 points per game.

Someone mentions that Kaepernick had success at one time due to a great team, but conveniently left out Wilson and the Seahawks in the same sentence.

I think you're used to laser passes because that is all Keeporpick throws. Most other QBs incorporate touch and only break out the laser passes when needed...Russell does have a nice fastball too, but does most of his killing with pinpoint rainbows because those passes give his receivers the best chance to make the catches. It makes sense that the niner receivers had a high drop rate when you watch Keeporpick throw a 97mph fastball to a receiver that is five yards downfield. The receivers have not been, and will not be the problem in Santa Clara.

I don't think Russell is better than all the QBs listed behind him on the list, but he is great as a Seahawk. There is only one QB on that list that I would rather have as the Seahawk starting QB and that's Luck.

Russell does have a pretty good team around him, but he doesn't get forced into making poor decisions like Keeporpick. You'll never see Russell flustered. Russell now has even more receiving weapons, so I'm sure you'll try to convince yourself that Russell isn't very good even more than you try now. Good luck with that...you're a niner fan, I'm sure you'll find a way.

 

[Marvin49]

One through 13, the list looks good, but after that it seems as though Jaworski has lost his mind. I understand the rookies being at the bottom because they haven't done anything yet, but having to start at zero is better than some of these guys that have already proven to be really bad.

15 for Kaepernick is at least 10 spots too high on that list too. I've seen better play from Teddy Bridgwater and Carr as rookies than I have ever seen from Kaepernick.

If you can find a highlight video of Kaepernick THROWING the ball, compare it to Bridgewater and Carr highlight videos. Pay attention to passes that are thrown where only the intended WR can catch them into tight windows and poor decisions thrown into double coverage with lucky outcomes. Look closely at the timing of the throws once they reach their drop back point. Watch what the QB does when his first option isn't an option. Watch their footwork when they throw the ball and then watch how much the WR has to adjust to get to the ball.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how Kaepernick can be ranked higher than a lot of the guys on that list as a QUARTERBACK. He looks clunky and mechanical where most of the other guys on the list look fluid and comfortable.

I'm stunned.

 

[NINEster]

There is simply no way Wilson should be above Brees, Roethilsberger, Romo, or Rivers. I'm okay with people putting Wilson at 10th, but those 9 guys are solidly better than Wilson.

And Luck at 4 makes more sense than Wilson at 5, but I'd still put him below Berger and Brees.

Wilson rarely ever kills a team with pinpoint lasers. He gets you with coverage breakdowns after a long time in the pocket and 50/50 jump balls, and killer play action when accounting for Lynch.

These are all nice skillsets but not top 5 NFL QB skillsets.

You could argue that "however the job gets done, is all that matters", and that's fine when you're talking about Seattle and SF two years ago with Harbaugh. But that kind of play will not get you the Ws in big games with Green Bay/New England/New Orleans/Denver going up against some tough defenses while your own defense isn't stifling teams to 15 points per game.

Someone mentions that Kaepernick had success at one time due to a great team, but conveniently left out Wilson and the Seahawks in the same sentence.

I think you're used to laser passes because that is all Keeporpick throws. Most other QBs incorporate touch and only break out the laser passes when needed...Russell does have a nice fastball too, but does most of his killing with pinpoint rainbows because those passes give his receivers the best chance to make the catches. It makes sense that the niner receivers had a high drop rate when you watch Keeporpick throw a 97mph fastball to a receiver that is five yards downfield. The receivers have not been, and will not be the problem in Santa Clara.

I don't think Russell is better than all the QBs listed behind him on the list, but he is great as a Seahawk. There is only one QB on that list that I would rather have as the Seahawk starting QB and that's Luck.

Russell does have a pretty good team around him, but he doesn't get forced into making poor decisions like Keeporpick. You'll never see Russell flustered. Russell now has even more receiving weapons, so I'm sure you'll try to convince yourself that Russell isn't very good even more than you try now. Good luck with that...you're a niner fan, I'm sure you'll find a way.

I didn't mean to use the word laser as a rocket throw, just a direct throw into traffic that you would expect from franchise QBs.

My evaluation of Wilson takes everything into account. Jimmy Graham is the perfect Russell receiver, but even he too needs to have the ball gotten to him as his stats in New Orleans weren't always super dominant.

I still feel I need to see another 2-3 years on Wilson and other QBs to make definitive decisions on them. These last two SBs cemented IMO Brady vs. Manning to those who keep debating them. Same opponent, and Brady finally showed why he was better to those that kept doubting.

Wilson, Kap, Newton.........still too early to tell.

What I do know for sure is that none of those three have shown the consistent dominant QB play from the pocket to elevate them to elite status. It can still happen, but not yet from their time in the league.