Russell Wilson vs. Andrew Luck: The Debate Rages on!

[Laloosh]

Tough one. Give me the guy that's proven and has a Lombardi.

 

[Hawkpower]

Wilson had thrown 40 passes to wide receivers this year. Of those, 24 have gone to undrafted players. He's not the kind of guy who needs top-drawer receivers around him to get the job done.

Luck hasn't completed a pass to a wide receiver drafted after the 3rd round.

Yet another blow to the whole "Luck has no talent around him" thingy.

 

[RiverDog]

Although it has a few years ago before it reaches its equal, this debate between Wilson and Luck reminds me somewhat of the Montana-Marino debate from two decades ago. Two great quarterbacks, one that has the numbers, the lesser defense, not known as much for his running, the other that has the better efficiency, the better defense, the intangibles, better at scrambling and extending plays, and the ring(s).

 

[WilsonMVP]

Although it has a few years ago before it reaches its equal, this debate between Wilson and Luck reminds me somewhat of the Montana-Marino debate from two decades ago. Two great quarterbacks, one that has the numbers, the lesser defense, not known as much for his running, the other that has the better efficiency, the better defense, the intangibles, better at scrambling and extending plays, and the ring(s).

See the thing that bothers me though...is...WILSON HAS THE NUMBERS!!!!!!

Other than yards Wilson beats Luck.......if Numbers=yards then Luck beats Wilson but he has less TDs and less overall impressive numbers anyway

Since you brought up Marino....which QB is it that is behind Marino in TDs for first 2 years...oh ya its Wilson

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It's all corny, who cares who is better? We have Wilson, they have Luck, both teams are obviously happy w/the guy they have. :roll:

 

[RiverDog]

Although it has a few years ago before it reaches its equal, this debate between Wilson and Luck reminds me somewhat of the Montana-Marino debate from two decades ago. Two great quarterbacks, one that has the numbers, the lesser defense, not known as much for his running, the other that has the better efficiency, the better defense, the intangibles, better at scrambling and extending plays, and the ring(s).

See the thing that bothers me though...is...WILSON HAS THE NUMBERS!!!!!!

Other than yards Wilson beats Luck.......if Numbers=yards then Luck beats Wilson but he has less TDs and less overall impressive numbers anyway

Since you brought up Marino....which QB is it that is behind Marino in TDs for first 2 years...oh ya its Wilson

Russell has some numbers, most of which are efficiency related (which trumps gross numbers IMO). What the media cares about most is total yards and total TD's. For example, Luck currently has 912 passing yards and 9 TD's vs. Wilson's 651 yards and 6 TD's. They'll rationalize the efficiency numbers, ie Luck's rating is 103.0 while Russell's is 108.9 and Russell has just one interception while Luck has 3, by calling Russell a game manager, that he has a better running game, a better defense, et al. That's what the Montana-Marino debate boiled down to.

 

[homerun1970]

Yeah Marino had the stats Joe has the rings I am ok if Luck gets the stats. They are both good young quarterbacks Luck was a 1st rounder so there is media bias. I honestly think Wilson will distance himself from Luck as the years go on guess will see at the end of their careers.

 

[Rob12]

I would not trade Russell Wilson straight up for Andrew Luck right now.

That's good enough for me. I don't care what people outside of us think. The stats, the wins, the playoff record, XLVIII, his attitude and leadership, work ethic and other abilities are what I put stock in. Not opinions.

 

[45Hawker]

Are the Seahawks considering replacing Wilson with Luck? If not, why is this a topic of discussion? Seems quite pointless to me.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

See the thing that bothers me though...is...WILSON HAS THE NUMBERS!!!!!!:

To play devil's advocate, Wilson has an almost 70% completion percentage this year because 80% of his passes have been shorter than 10 yards, most to guys like Harvin on basically long handoff screens.

Could Russell huck it around the yard 40-50 times a game, throw for 350 yards and 3 TD's a game like Luck? Sure, but his QBR, completion percentage and TD/Int ratio would suffer.........like people here like to point to when telling us that Luck is not as good.

IMO both players are practically flawless in every aspect of the position, so I can't definitively say who's "better." I just thank baby Jesus that we have one of the two most dynamic young QB's to come out in the past 25 years.

 

[HawkWow]

^ Great post.

It seems the essence of these threads / this debate is our guy doesn't get the recognition he (definitely) deserves. But the caveat being that had RW received such recognition pre-draft, we'd be debating "who's better, Luck or Flynn?" I'm glad we have RW, Indy's glad they have Luck and I'd be stoked with either on our team.

 

[hawker84]

Well here's what Colt fans think about the Topic.


http://forums.colts.com/topic/31346-luck-vs-wilson/

Where there is some blatant homeristic posts, most are level headed and give RW praise. All pick luck but a lot said they would take Wilson in a heartbeat if Luck wasn't there.

Again i ask why the debate, both are obviously really good and productive within their systems? Right now numbers and career wise obviously RW has luck beat. But i'd bet the farm Luck will win a lombardi or two before it's all said and done as well.

who would you choose to lead your team between:

Brady
Manning
Rogers
Brees
Montana
Marino

Any of them, they'll all get you there.

 

[themunn]

See the thing that bothers me though...is...WILSON HAS THE NUMBERS!!!!!!:

To play devil's advocate, Wilson has an almost 70% completion percentage this year because 80% of his passes have been shorter than 10 yards, most to guys like Harvin on basically long handoff screens.

Could Russell huck it around the yard 40-50 times a game, throw for 350 yards and 3 TD's a game like Luck? Sure, but his QBR, completion percentage and TD/Int ratio would suffer.........like people here like to point to when telling us that Luck is not as good.

IMO both players are practically flawless in every aspect of the position, so I can't definitively say who's "better." I just thank baby Jesus that we have one of the two most dynamic young QB's to come out in the past 25 years.

Nah, I'm not letting you play devil's advocate here.

Luck only had 3 games with over 300 yards in the regular season last year compared to Wilson's 2. And prior to this season he only had 5 games with 3 TD passes (including playoffs) compared to Wilson's 6. If you count total TDs (i.e. rushing AND passing), Luck has 7 to Wilson's 9.

In fact, all of his extra throwing only worked out as an extra 30 yards a game. And again, if you take rushing yards into account, it's less than 20 extra yards per game.

I guess the question is, could Wilson increase his per game by 30 yards per game by increasing his attempts? Could Wilson throw for an extra 500 yards in a season with 170 more attempts?

Wilson's record when throwing more than 30 attempts is this:

8 games. 267 attempts, 175 completions, 2064 yards, 13 TDs, 4 interceptions. 98.9 passer rating. AND he's rushed for 377 yards on 61 attempts (and 1 TD).

When you allow for the fact that one of those games was his very first start (on the road), the remaining 7 games boil down to this stat line on average:
33.3 attempts, 25 completions (67.4% completion), 273 passing yards, 8.2 YPA, 1.7 TDs and 0.4 INTs. 7.8 rushing attempts for 51 rushing yards (4.7 yards per carry), for 324 total yards per game and a 104.2 passer rating.

And FIVE of those 7 games were on the road.

i.e. When Russell Wilson needs to win the game on the own, that is when he's at his best.

I just read that Colts thread where someone suggested that we need to see what happens when Wilson goes 34-3 down like Luck did against the Chiefs. Yet that was a game where the Chiefs scored 2 of their TDs on drives that started in the Colts' redzone thanks to Luck interceptions - that's the reason he's not needed to come back from such huge deficits.

Obviously our great defense means that we're rarely down by much, in fact, since Wilson took over, here's the only games I can think of where we were down by more than 10 points at any point.

Down 20 points to Atlanta and taking the lead with 30 seconds to go
Down 21 points to Tampa Bay and winning in overtime
Down 14 points to Washington and winning the game
Down 13 points to New England and winning
Down 14 points to Houston and winning in overtime
Down 10 points to SF in the NFCCG and coming back to win.

an even 3/3 home away split - also note that 3 of them are playoff games (out of a total of 5 playoff games played), where he's either won or helped the team take the lead with 30 seconds to go...


I want to caveat it all though - Luck looks a lot better this year (as does Wilson), I think Wilson has been more impressive over the first 2 years, but Luck has the opportunity to close the gap now.

 

[WilsonMVP]

See the thing that bothers me though...is...WILSON HAS THE NUMBERS!!!!!!:

To play devil's advocate, Wilson has an almost 70% completion percentage this year because 80% of his passes have been shorter than 10 yards, most to guys like Harvin on basically long handoff screens.

Could Russell huck it around the yard 40-50 times a game, throw for 350 yards and 3 TD's a game like Luck? Sure, but his QBR, completion percentage and TD/Int ratio would suffer.........like people here like to point to when telling us that Luck is not as good.

IMO both players are practically flawless in every aspect of the position, so I can't definitively say who's "better." I just thank baby Jesus that we have one of the two most dynamic young QB's to come out in the past 25 years.

Luck for the season only has 9 more passes thrown past 10 yards on 39 more throws...so I would say right now they are fairly equal in how long they throw...I mean Luck has a 68.3% completion ratio, hes not bad or anything

 

[WilsonMVP]

Well here's what Colt fans think about the Topic.


http://forums.colts.com/topic/31346-luck-vs-wilson/

Where there is some blatant homeristic posts, most are level headed and give RW praise. All pick luck but a lot said they would take Wilson in a heartbeat if Luck wasn't there.

Again i ask why the debate, both are obviously really good and productive within their systems? Right now numbers and career wise obviously RW has luck beat. But i'd bet the farm Luck will win a lombardi or two before it's all said and done as well.

who would you choose to lead your team between:

Brady
Manning
Rogers
Brees
Montana
Marino

Any of them, they'll all get you there.

I wouldnt be suprised if he got to a superbowl....after Brady and Manning retire the AFC is weak. Rivers Luck and Dalton as your top 3 QBs in the AFC? MAYBE put Ben in there

 

[WilsonMVP]

See the thing that bothers me though...is...WILSON HAS THE NUMBERS!!!!!!:

To play devil's advocate, Wilson has an almost 70% completion percentage this year because 80% of his passes have been shorter than 10 yards, most to guys like Harvin on basically long handoff screens.

Could Russell huck it around the yard 40-50 times a game, throw for 350 yards and 3 TD's a game like Luck? Sure, but his QBR, completion percentage and TD/Int ratio would suffer.........like people here like to point to when telling us that Luck is not as good.

IMO both players are practically flawless in every aspect of the position, so I can't definitively say who's "better." I just thank baby Jesus that we have one of the two most dynamic young QB's to come out in the past 25 years.

Nah, I'm not letting you play devil's advocate here.

Luck only had 3 games with over 300 yards in the regular season last year compared to Wilson's 2. And prior to this season he only had 5 games with 3 TD passes (including playoffs) compared to Wilson's 6. If you count total TDs (i.e. rushing AND passing), Luck has 7 to Wilson's 9.

In fact, all of his extra throwing only worked out as an extra 30 yards a game. And again, if you take rushing yards into account, it's less than 20 extra yards per game.

I guess the question is, could Wilson increase his per game by 30 yards per game by increasing his attempts? Could Wilson throw for an extra 500 yards in a season with 170 more attempts?

Wilson's record when throwing more than 30 attempts is this:

8 games. 267 attempts, 175 completions, 2064 yards, 13 TDs, 4 interceptions. 98.9 passer rating. AND he's rushed for 377 yards on 61 attempts (and 1 TD).

When you allow for the fact that one of those games was his very first start (on the road), the remaining 7 games boil down to this stat line on average:
33.3 attempts, 25 completions (67.4% completion), 273 passing yards, 8.2 YPA, 1.7 TDs and 0.4 INTs. 7.8 rushing attempts for 51 rushing yards (4.7 yards per carry), for 324 total yards per game and a 104.2 passer rating.

And FIVE of those 7 games were on the road.

i.e. When Russell Wilson needs to win the game on the own, that is when he's at his best.

I just read that Colts thread where someone suggested that we need to see what happens when Wilson goes 34-3 down like Luck did against the Chiefs. Yet that was a game where the Chiefs scored 2 of their TDs on drives that started in the Colts' redzone thanks to Luck interceptions - that's the reason he's not needed to come back from such huge deficits.

Obviously our great defense means that we're rarely down by much, in fact, since Wilson took over, here's the only games I can think of where we were down by more than 10 points at any point.

Down 20 points to Atlanta and taking the lead with 30 seconds to go
Down 21 points to Tampa Bay and winning in overtime
Down 14 points to Washington and winning the game
Down 13 points to New England and winning
Down 14 points to Houston and winning in overtime
Down 10 points to SF in the NFCCG and coming back to win.

an even 3/3 home away split - also note that 3 of them are playoff games (out of a total of 5 playoff games played), where he's either won or helped the team take the lead with 30 seconds to go...


I want to caveat it all though - Luck looks a lot better this year (as does Wilson), I think Wilson has been more impressive over the first 2 years, but Luck has the opportunity to close the gap now.

LOL I guess they did they not watch the Falcons playoff game where we went into the 4th quarter down 27-7 and Wilson scored 21 straight with 30 seconds to win it and the defense blew the lead. That would of been one of the greatest postseason comebacks in NFL history and the defense blew it.

As a side note

They both are killing it this year so far although im not quite sure Luck is actually as good as his numbers indicate since he went against the Eagles and Jaguars D the last 2 weeks and racked up 7TD and only 1 INT there. I suspect he will kill the titans because he is a QB that will kill bad teams IMO.

 

[Threedee]

Are the Seahawks considering replacing Wilson with Luck? If not, why is this a topic of discussion? Seems quite pointless to me.

The cool thing about all of these Luck vs Wilson debates is that as time goes by, and Wilson rises above Luck and Foles, while RGIII and Tannehill fade into the backdrop (along with Kaeperpick), we can sarcastically make and more comparison threads.

 

[gmor]

Thanks for the stat break down. I don't think it should get to that level of difficulty. Which one would you rather have? Luck is a great QB, but RW fits us and has shown poise and ability in the biggest game of all in only his second season. He will only get better. RW is the choice all day long.

 

[chris98251]

Luck would be benched if he threw that many interceptions here for Pete.

 

[RiverDog]

I wouldnt be suprised if he got to a superbowl....after Brady and Manning retire the AFC is weak. Rivers Luck and Dalton as your top 3 QBs in the AFC? MAYBE put Ben in there

I wouldn't put Worthlessburger or Dalton ahead of Phillip Rivers. He had some damn good numbers last year, got his team into the playoffs and decisively beat Dalton and the Bengals in their own house when it counted most.

I don't see a lot of difference in the quality of teams between the two conferences. The inter conference record currently stands at 9-7 in favor of the NFC, plus some of the top NFC teams have fallen to AFC opponents, including us vs. the Chargers, the Saints vs. the Browns, and the Panthers vs. the Steelers, plus Denver took us to OT in our house. It looks pretty even IMO.