Russell Wilson vs. Andrew Luck: The Debate Rages on!

Mick063

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Luck forces quite a few of his throws. Wilson intentionally throws away quite a few of his.

I think there is a happy medium in there. I don't think Russell gives his receivers enough chances to win their matchup. We have collectively spent the last two years complaining about receivers that don't get separation, but in reality, sometimes a QB has to stick it in there and let his receiver make a play. It isn't really common for NFL receivers to be consistently open. How else does one explain the increasingly fashionable back shoulder fade? A play designed to complete passes against covered receivers.

Even if it means a Lockette playing defensive back for a down (as we witnessed against Denver), an occasional gamble isn't always a bad play. A play followed up in the same series by Russell's best pass of the day, a score to a covered Lockette in the endzone. Those two measured gambles resulted in a 14 point swing. Lockette literally saved the day, but only because Wilson gave him the opportunity to do so.

The "Fail Mary" was a historically covered play. At the point when Phillip Rivers releases the ball, the aging Antonio Gates always looks blanketed. Bret Farve made a living at giving his receivers an opportunity (which explains Sydney Rice's best statistical season). Sure Farve paid the price in interceptions....all the way to the Hall of Fame.

Every wager from a professional gambler is measured, knowing the odds of success, and accepting the possibility of a loss. Each loss or win represents a specific wager (a single play). The key is to win more plays than you lose, and to not bet more than you can afford on any given play (Romo). It is the cumulative affect of correctly playing the odds that brings home the money (a game).

Perhaps you agree with a philosophy change or perhaps not, but this is the single biggest difference between Luck and Wilson. Perhaps Luck gambles too much and Wilson doesn't gamble enough. Of the two, the one that finds the happy medium will be the one that becomes the clear cut leader.

When Seattle's defense/running game becomes less competent, or the Colt's defense/running game becomes more competent, such changes in philosophy may be respectfully forced upon them.
 

Tokadub

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hawker84":3ppe7808 said:
Well here's what Colt fans think about the Topic.


http://forums.colts.com/topic/31346-luck-vs-wilson/

Where there is some blatant homeristic posts, most are level headed and give RW praise. All pick luck but a lot said they would take Wilson in a heartbeat if Luck wasn't there.

Again i ask why the debate, both are obviously really good and productive within their systems? Right now numbers and career wise obviously RW has luck beat. But i'd bet the farm Luck will win a lombardi or two before it's all said and done as well.

who would you choose to lead your team between:

Brady
Manning
Rogers
Brees
Montana
Marino

Any of them, they'll all get you there.

I haven't read that whole thread but I threw down some serious Wilson > Luck knowledge for those fools quoting 3 of my huge "Wilson > Luck" or "Wilson isn't carried by defense" threads that I originally wrote here.

I don't think the comparison is even close Wilson is way better than Luck so far. If you still don't think that even after reading the 3 posts I laid down over there, well then may god have mercy on your soul ;)

http://forums.colts.com/topic/31290-denver-cb-harris-says-wilson-is-better-than-luck-merge/page-10

Eww on a side note this was post # 420 for me :0190l:
 

Russ Willstrong

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The Wilson vs Luck debate is similar to a beauty contest at Cirque du Soliel.
Both have outstanding talents but I'll take the short one over the neck-bearded one any day.
 

Tokadub

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The stat difference between Wilson and Luck is so large that one of their posters said this and I think he really believed I was making stuff up :D

"Thank you for the pistol comment. By inane I meant empty or lacking significance, which I would consider to be quite different than insane. Maybe you do not, but I do. Did you even read those "stats", some were completely made up in order to prove the posters point. There is a reason there is a quote, "Lies, Damn lies and Statistics". Many people, including many posters here, both pro Colts and anti Colts use statistics to bolster their weak arguments."

I called him out that all the stats are legit I hope people laugh at him, haven't read the follow ups yet but it appears that thread is currently blowing up :stirthepot:
 

warden

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The Colts purposely tanked the season to get Luck
 

SoulfishHawk

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Not sure why it matters who is better. Stoked we have Wilson, I'm sure they are plenty happy with Luck.
Both are great players, not sure why the obsession w/who is better.
 

Sgt. Largent

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SoulfishHawk":31v3myuv said:
Not sure why it matters who is better. Stoked we have Wilson, I'm sure they are plenty happy with Luck.
Both are great players, not sure why the obsession w/who is better.

Because feigned outrage over inconsequential unnwinnable arguments is what we do............and we do it well.
 

kearly

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I thought I'd just take a moment to point out that somebody named SeahawkarinaOfTime made a post in this thread.

That's almost as good a name as BubbRubb from last year. Maybe we'll see a BubbRubboftime user next?
 

Pandion Haliaetus

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Luck has been reasonably good but I'll temper the notion that he's been "Killing It"

WK1: 66%, 370 Yards, 2 TDs, 2 Ints, 83.1 QB rating, LOSS
vs Broncos D: 31st Yards/Game, 66.2 Comp%, 86.7 QB rating

WK2: 58%, 172 Yards, 3 TDs, 1 Ints, 89.3 QB rating, LOSS
vs Eagles D: 30th in Y/G, 59.2%, 94.9 QB rating

WK3: 80%, 370 Yards, 4 TDs, 0 Ints, 140.4 QB rating, WIN
vs Jaguars D: 32nd in Y/G, 67.7%, 110.7 QB rating
 

Pandion Haliaetus

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kearly":2avjih8x said:
I thought I'd just take a moment to point out that somebody named SeahawkarinaOfTime made a post in this thread.

That's almost as good a name as BubbRubb from last year. Maybe we'll see a BubbRubboftime user next?

I suppose if ya' a nerd. For some reason that name made me cringe more than I had N64 Zelda nostalgic colored in Seahawks fandom.
 

bmorepunk

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kearly":2ksb7wjg said:
I thought I'd just take a moment to point out that somebody named SeahawkarinaOfTime made a post in this thread.

That's almost as good a name as BubbRubb from last year. Maybe we'll see a BubbRubboftime user next?

I stayed in campus housing over winter break when that came out. There was no where to go (this was Fairbanks, AK and the temps were in the -40F range and I had no vehicle) for two weeks. I locked myself in my room with my N64 and played nothing but Ocarina of Time and Madden 64 (on Nintendo 64 for all you non-game people).

So this guy made a screen name that literally describes that experience. I was admittedly a disgusting human being during these two weeks, but I cared not.
 

RolandDeschain

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warden":288mrc5i said:
The Colts purposely tanked the season to get Luck
It's incredibly mysterious that Irsay took over the Colts and a year later they "sucked" after several winning seasons enough to draft Peyton Manning, and then when he's nearing the end of his career and gets a bad neck injury, they "sucked" after several winning seasons again enough to draft what many think was the best college prospect since Peyton Manning.

If you could convince an offensive or defensive coordinator to curb their brilliance a bit, you could totally get away with purposely tanking a year with nobody being able to prove anything.

Just sayin'.
 

RiverDog

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warden":qk7zxmuj said:
The Colts purposely tanked the season to get Luck

I don't think the Colts intentionally "sucked", for two reasons: It would have been the most outrageous, explosive story in the last decade save our current Ray Rice situation if solid evidence emerged that a team intentionally lost not only a game, but a series of games, simply to be in a position to draft one player. I don't think any franchise is going to take that kind of risk. Secondly, it could have easily backfired on them in a couple of ways, either by accidentally winning a couple of games and not getting the #1 overall or something happening to Luck himself, like an injury or becoming a JaMarcus Russell style bust.

It was nothing more than dumb ass luck (with a small "L") that the Colts were able to part ways with the best quarterback in a generation and end up with one of the two best young quarterbacks in the game.
 

HansGruber

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Luck has been over-hyped since college. It doesn't matter.

I'm absolutely thrilled that the Seahawks got the young scrappy guy who just wins.

There are essentially two kinds of Hall of Fame quarterbacks:

1) The fantasy gods
2) The scrappy winners

Fantasy gods are guys like Marino, Manning, Luck and Farvre. They break regular season records of every kind, throw for a zillion yards and TDs every season, and get all the love from the media. They always have. And not one of them has ever won more than a single Superbowl.

The scrappy winners include guys like Staubach, Plunkett, Aikman, Brady, Montana and Wilson. None of them were big stats guys, but they knew how to win, especially when it counted. Which explains why every single one of them has a handful of rings (Wilson not yet, but he will). I grew up watching Plunkett, a guy who most people have never heard of. Look at his stats and you'd think he was terrible. But while Marino was sucking up the spotlight, Plunkett was wreaking havoc on the pretty boys and favored teams. Montana, Brady and Aikman got no love until they had won multiple titles and even then, Farvre got more press than Aikman, manning gets more love than Brady, and Marino always got more press than Plunkett and Montana.

I've been around long enough that I don't care about the press. I'm thrilled we got the scrappy kid. Scrappy kids win Superbowls and build dynasties. And that's all I care about. It's going to be a blast watching Wilson build the first Seahawks dynasty.

The Colts can have their fantasy god. He might even win them a ring. But he'll never build a dynasty.
 

chris98251

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Oh your don't think an owner will tank a team to get what he wants? Clay Bennett and Seattle Sonics....................... He paid off the City to get it finally. Thats after trading all the talent away.

Ken Behring........................ He was just to much of a braggart and the Legislative branch stepped in. After firing the Coach, trading players, alienating the fan base.

Irsay........................ This is the guy whose father left town at Midnight in a Mayflower Moving van to get his deal in Indy.
 

WilsonMVP

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HansGruber":1bbwdmqq said:
Luck has been over-hyped since college. It doesn't matter.

I'm absolutely thrilled that the Seahawks got the young scrappy guy who just wins.

There are essentially two kinds of Hall of Fame quarterbacks:

1) The fantasy gods
2) The scrappy winners

Fantasy gods are guys like Marino, Manning, Luck and Farvre. They break regular season records of every kind, throw for a zillion yards and TDs every season, and get all the love from the media. They always have. And not one of them has ever won more than a single Superbowl.

The scrappy winners include guys like Staubach, Plunkett, Aikman, Brady, Montana and Wilson. None of them were big stats guys, but they knew how to win, especially when it counted. Which explains why every single one of them has a handful of rings (Wilson not yet, but he will). I grew up watching Plunkett, a guy who most people have never heard of. Look at his stats and you'd think he was terrible. But while Marino was sucking up the spotlight, Plunkett was wreaking havoc on the pretty boys and favored teams. Montana, Brady and Aikman got no love until they had won multiple titles and even then, Farvre got more press than Aikman, manning gets more love than Brady, and Marino always got more press than Plunkett and Montana.

I've been around long enough that I don't care about the press. I'm thrilled we got the scrappy kid. Scrappy kids win Superbowls and build dynasties. And that's all I care about. It's going to be a blast watching Wilson build the first Seahawks dynasty.

The Colts can have their fantasy god. He might even win them a ring. But he'll never build a dynasty.

This is what pisses me off about the Wilson vs Luck argument though....other than yards, Wilson is BEATING luck in the stats
 

RichNhansom

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If I look back through the history of football, I cannot think of one QB who could carry a crappy team to a super bowl win. He can elevate that team and make them relevant but that is about it. Point being that the QB really is only part of the equation and therefore a clutch QB is much more valuable than the guy who lights up the fantasy boards.

When I think of the best QB's of all time I don't think of the guys who could set individual records, I think of guys like Montana who were biggest when the spotlight was the brightest. The more important the down, the more focused and determined the player.

Knowing what I know now if I were making the selection in the 2012 draft I am selecting Wilson #1 overall (assuming he wouldn't be there later) because winning super bowls is more important to me than those really flashy stats. Winning critical games against elite teams is much more enjoyable than beating up bad teams and Dynasty is the ultimate goal and cannot be reached without the most clutch of QB's. You may luck into a super bowl against Rex Ryan but really your just lucky. Maintaining a championship level of play requires the leadership of a great QB who backs up his leadership with greatness on the field and shines best when the spotlight is the brightest.

Throw away the stats and media hype. Greatness cannot be measured by stats or Analyst prognostications. It is earned and best earned when the chips are down and it feels the chance of survival is bleak. That's when the true champions show their real worth.
 
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