Ryan Tannehill Signs Extension through 2020

[Vetamur]

Factor in rushing by the Qb and how does the comparison fair?

I mean you've got me there RW ran for 800 Tannehill for 300 but is that the point you want to bring up when discussing franchise qb contracts?

Frankly, yes. Because that is part of Wilson's game. If you were a DC..what would give you a hard time to game plan against? Our same team but Tannehill or with Wilson back there. Wilson's running and improv ability make him a threat on a whole different level.

 

[TheRealDTM]

Factor in rushing by the Qb and how does the comparison fair?

I mean you've got me there RW ran for 800 Tannehill for 300 but is that the point you want to bring up when discussing franchise qb contracts?

Frankly, yes. Because that is part of Wilson's game. If you were a DC..what would give you a hard time to game plan against? Our same team but Tannehill or with Wilson back there. Wilson's running and improv ability make him a threat on a whole different level.

Tannehill's extra 6+ inches allows him to do some things RW cannot, like be able to see where he's throwing over the middle. That may have come in handy at some point last year.

Trent Dilfer won a superbowl, he must have been an elite QB

You should stop while you're behind...comparing Dilfer to Wilson is beyond asinine.

Damn, you like to put words in people's mouths huh? I don't think I said anything about Wilson in that sentence.

 

[McGruff]

Wilson hasn't sturggled throwing over the middle. He doesn't do it as often as others, in large part because the Seahawks offensive philosophy is to compliment the running game with down the field passing, where as Tannehill's offense is built around short passing. But Wilson has never, in college or the pros, struggled to see over the line. In fact, as has been written about often in the pass, no QB throws over their line, no matter how tall they are. All QB's throw through windows designed in the blocking scheme.

Frankly, after three years, I am shocked that Seahawks fans especially are buying the arguments put forward about Wilson's supposed "short-comings". They are based on prejudices and biases that are 30 years old and not really relevant to today's NFL.

 

[ctrcat]

C'mon now. Dilfer was 58-55 as a starter. Wilson is 36-12. Wilson has been very good for more than one year (and Dilfer was never good).

Romo has earned his money. It seems silly to bring him up. If Romo was healthy and 26 years old right now like Wilson is, he'd be making crazy money.

I agree 100% with you

My point was more to the fact that you cannot only look at stats and you cannot only look at wins. With a system that limits the QB you have to look at "soft data" as in how he performs when needed, in training and what confidence the coach has in the QB.

I would expect the soft categories to rate very high for RW and he should get a very nice contract offer. My point was you can't look at stats and say Tannehill is as good and you can't just look at wins and say Cam Newton is the 24th best qb last year

6 years, 150 million is the number thrown out on Charlotte sports talk for Cam. Certainly not official and perhaps not even in the ballpark, but that's what at least some are expecting.

 

[Ramfan128]

When it comes to QBs, I don't think any numbers can really tell the story. Aside from Wilson's offense (which does a great deal to allow him to be successful), the defense and ST consistently getting the offense good field position and/or short fields makes a huge difference.

Seattle's home field advantage is the best I've ever seen - in any sport.

These are the factors that IMO make RW so successful:

The offense - most lethal play action game in the NFL, off of the most lethal running game in the NFL. Wilson deserves credit for his part in the read option.

The defense/ST - I don't understand why this isn't talked about more often. The Rams have an explosive (at times) defense and special teams - but the defense hasn't even been CLOSE to the Seahawks defense - I've witnessed us win multiple games in blow out fashion over the past two years that would have required almost no input from the offense. Seattle is an even better example of this. (i.e. the superbowl win, where the D/ST outscored Denver 14-8).

The WRs - while I'm sure they drop some passes, I have seen more spectacular catches from Seattle WRs over the past two years than any other team. Wilson throws a good deep ball, but a lot of them are jump balls that a WR makes an amazing play on (i.e. the catch in the superbowl that put them in position to win).

The fans - I'm sorry, but even with a backup QB the Seahawks would win 6-8 home games per year. The primetime game against New Orleans two years ago is a good example of this - that team was outmatched and even with a punter at QB the Seahawks would have won that game.


So now your Pete Carrol - you know all this, because these are facts. Also, as the coach, you can see what is holding your offense back (OL and WRs like the fans think, or is it in fact Wilson).

The eye ball test tells me Wilson should get Alex Smith money, unless he will be able to average 800 yards rushing and 10 rushing TDs per season.

 

[McGruff]

C'mon now. Dilfer was 58-55 as a starter. Wilson is 36-12. Wilson has been very good for more than one year (and Dilfer was never good).

Romo has earned his money. It seems silly to bring him up. If Romo was healthy and 26 years old right now like Wilson is, he'd be making crazy money.

I agree 100% with you

My point was more to the fact that you cannot only look at stats and you cannot only look at wins. With a system that limits the QB you have to look at "soft data" as in how he performs when needed, in training and what confidence the coach has in the QB.

I would expect the soft categories to rate very high for RW and he should get a very nice contract offer. My point was you can't look at stats and say Tannehill is as good and you can't just look at wins and say Cam Newton is the 24th best qb last year

6 years, 150 million is the number thrown out on Charlotte sports talk for Cam. Certainly not official and perhaps not even in the ballpark, but that's what at least some are expecting.

Which is really probably more like 5 years, 135 million . . . But I can't imagine him getting that money, even if he gets that contract.

 

[TheRealDTM]

When it comes to QBs, I don't think any numbers can really tell the story. Aside from Wilson's offense (which does a great deal to allow him to be successful), the defense and ST consistently getting the offense good field position and/or short fields makes a huge difference.

Seattle's home field advantage is the best I've ever seen - in any sport.

These are the factors that IMO make RW so successful:

The offense - most lethal play action game in the NFL, off of the most lethal running game in the NFL. Wilson deserves credit for his part in the read option.

The defense/ST - I don't understand why this isn't talked about more often. The Rams have an explosive (at times) defense and special teams - but the defense hasn't even been CLOSE to the Seahawks defense - I've witnessed us win multiple games in blow out fashion over the past two years that would have required almost no input from the offense. Seattle is an even better example of this. (i.e. the superbowl win, where the D/ST outscored Denver 14-8).

The WRs - while I'm sure they drop some passes, I have seen more spectacular catches from Seattle WRs over the past two years than any other team. Wilson throws a good deep ball, but a lot of them are jump balls that a WR makes an amazing play on (i.e. the catch in the superbowl that put them in position to win).

The fans - I'm sorry, but even with a backup QB the Seahawks would win 6-8 home games per year. The primetime game against New Orleans two years ago is a good example of this - that team was outmatched and even with a punter at QB the Seahawks would have won that game.


So now your Pete Carrol - you know all this, because these are facts. Also, as the coach, you can see what is holding your offense back (OL and WRs like the fans think, or is it in fact Wilson).

The eye ball test tells me Wilson should get Alex Smith money, unless he will be able to average 800 yards rushing and 10 rushing TDs per season.

Hey you and your unbiased opinion need to get out of here. This forum is for people who think RW is the best deserves the most money, would be the best quarterback in the NFL on a different team and that his departure would lead Seattle into some kind of mad max-esque apocalyptic hellscape

 

[UK_Seahawk]

I'm fairly sure the Seahawks would happily pay Wilson whatever he wants, Paul Allen probably has the $25m annual salary down the back of his sofa.

Clearly the issue here is the cap hit.

 

[Scottemojo]

The clear problem is a coach that asks Russell to do less and limit turnovers. So by design his numbers will not measure up with his abilities.

To use the strategy of the team against the QB won't sit well with the player.

HOWEVER how else do you judge the player except for using numbers that represents his position????

So the parties need to find some middle ground

You pay him for wins.

So Tony Romo had 12 wins last year and should be the highest paid QB?

Matt Ryan had 6 wins last year and should be paid in accordance with that? (22nd)

Cam Newton went 5-8 last year (24th)

Or does it only apply in certain cases?.........

I will be more specific.

WAR. Wins above replacement. It isn't a football stat. But should be.

I think Wilson is good for 4 WAR. Maybe a bit more. Romo, forget his record, is good for much the same.

Without Wilson there are not 4 home playoff games the last two years. Probably not any playoffs.

Also, there is another factor at play here. Everyone is worried about Seattle overpaying Wilson. Nobody is mentioning the bonus he should get for what he did the last 3 years. Think about what he should have been paid at minimum the last 3 years, and you will begin to know why he wants a big deal.

 

[kidhawk]

Nobody is mentioning the bonus he should get for what he did the last 3 years. Think about what he should have been paid at minimum the last 3 years, and you will begin to know why he wants a big deal.

That's because we don't talk about the side money Allen got Microsoft to pay him for those Surface commercials lest we bring down the wrath of Goodell :stirthepot:

 

[Tical21]

Can't Paul just put him in his will? Seriously.

You shouldn't pay players based off of past performance. I don't think Russell would want them to either.

If Russell Wilson had a WAR of 4 games, wouldn't we win 14 games every year considering we have the best roster in football? Doesn't this team win 10 games with a mediocre QB?


Combined cap hits for Ndamukong Suh & Ryan Tannehill:

2015: $10.873M

2016: $40.24M

That's scary.

 

[kearly]

C'mon now. Dilfer was 58-55 as a starter. Wilson is 36-12. Wilson has been very good for more than one year (and Dilfer was never good).

Romo has earned his money. It seems silly to bring him up. If Romo was healthy and 26 years old right now like Wilson is, he'd be making crazy money.

I agree 100% with you

My point was more to the fact that you cannot only look at stats and you cannot only look at wins. With a system that limits the QB you have to look at "soft data" as in how he performs when needed, in training and what confidence the coach has in the QB.

I would expect the soft categories to rate very high for RW and he should get a very nice contract offer. My point was you can't look at stats and say Tannehill is as good and you can't just look at wins and say Cam Newton is the 24th best qb last year

The enemy of quality statistical analysis is the existence of noise or the inability to isolate. Football is such a team dependent sport that it's very far from an exact science when looking at individual players. This makes quantifying wins with statistics very difficult, especially for a QB like Russell Wilson.

I look at Wilson and I see a guy that elevates his OL, elevates his WRs, and even elevates his RBs. He makes his team better. Probably by about 3-5 wins over a journeyman QB. Seattle won 7 games before Wilson, and has averaged 12 wins a year with him. Not all of that is Wilson, but most of it is.

Evaluating a QB by wins is tricky business. Vince Young currently sports a winning record. As does Tim Tebow, and Michael Vick. They are not good QBs, but their winning does prove that there is a lot of hidden value to the QB position. Particularly for mobile QBs.

John Elway's career passing numbers were downright mediocre. But he was a first ballot HoF because of his intangibles and mobility. He wasn't a great passer, but he added a ton of wins to his team.

 

[kearly]

If Russell Wilson had a WAR of 4 games, wouldn't we win 14 games every year considering we have the best roster in football? Doesn't this team win 10 games with a mediocre QB?

Ten is probably too high.

The Hawks were a 7 win team in 2011 with an elite running game and a top 10 defense. The Rams are loaded with talent, yet they are a 7 win team with journeyman QB play every year.

 

[TheRealDTM]

If Russell Wilson had a WAR of 4 games, wouldn't we win 14 games every year considering we have the best roster in football? Doesn't this team win 10 games with a mediocre QB?

Ten is probably too high.

The Hawks were a 7 win team in 2011 with an elite running game and a top 10 defense. The Rams are loaded with talent, yet they are a 7 win team with journeyman QB play every year.

The rams D is more comparable to the 2011 hawks D then the current hawks. 2011 Sherman wasn't the best corner in the league, chancellor hadn't blossomed, we didn't have a top 3 MLB. The hawks D the 3 years Russel has been here has been of historic proportions with little comparison outside of 05 ravens, 85 bears etc.

 

[Spin Doctor]

If Russell Wilson had a WAR of 4 games, wouldn't we win 14 games every year considering we have the best roster in football? Doesn't this team win 10 games with a mediocre QB?

Ten is probably too high.

The Hawks were a 7 win team in 2011 with an elite running game and a top 10 defense. The Rams are loaded with talent, yet they are a 7 win team with journeyman QB play every year.

In 2011 Richard Sherman was not the same player he is today, he also was not a starter the full season. It is also worth noting that he was a rookie. In 2011 Kam Chancellor was also a first year starter that was just learning the ropes. In 2011 the Seahawks also added Bobby Wagner which immediately was an upgrade to Hawthorne. The middle of the field was a huge weakness in 2011, and Hawthorne did not have very good range. In coverage Hawthorne was not very good and he tended to be over aggressive in the running game. The middle of the field was a HUGE weakness in 2011. Bruce Irvin also an upgrade over an over the hill Raheem Brock.

There is also the T-Jack factor. Tarvaris Jackson is quite frankly not a very good QB. There is only two times in his career that he threw for more touchdowns than INTs. On the 2012 Seahawks he only threw 14 touchdowns and 13 INTs, that is not even that great by backup standards, especially considering the advantages he had. Most our losses were also within a touchdown that season. Much of that had to do with T-Jack himself not being terrible when the game was on the line.

Yes, 2012 was a great season, and Wilson did play a big part. Where I have a contention is how much of that had to do with Wilson himself. The secondary was inexperienced in 2011, Chancellor and Sherman were first time starters it was not the legion of boom that we know today. We also added some valuable pieces to our defense as well. What I'm trying to say is, yes Wilson did make a difference, but I also think that difference is overstated.

I also do not think pointing to the 2011 team is a good example of the current team in a fictitious post Wilson scenario. Seattle now has a bevvy of pass rushers that that did not have in 2011, and now the major pieces of the secondary are solidified. Chancellor, Sherman, and Thomas have chemistry together and have been playing with one another for years now. All of them are experienced vets that are among the highest regarded players at their respective positions. Bobby Wagner is also one of the better Middle linebackers in the league as of now. We've got more weapons, depth, and experience than we did in 2011.