Schneider's curious decision

[hawknation2017]

Cam Robinson is playing with a bum shoulder, but he played a lot better in Week 3 against the Ravens than he did in Week 2. I think he will continue to get better. IMO, he is playing better than Ifedi did as a rookie. But they're similar players.

 

[Jerhawk]

It's even more strange they spent a 2nd round pick on Pocic, and he has yet to start.

To me, that's just as troubling.

 

[HawkerD]

It's hard for me to criticize Schneider's draft philosophy, the dude's one of the best, if not THE best at managing picks to maximize talent accumulation.

But when it comes to using that philosophy to draft O-linemen? That's where I have no problem being critical. It's been terrible to downright horrific in the Carroll/Schneider era.

Most draft capital/picks used on the O-line in the league, and year after year continue to have the worst line? You need to change how you're drafting O-linemen, or budget more cap space to overpay for FA linemen.

I have to disagree. Look at WR. We have left better players on the board and instead picked (Durham (4th), Harper (4th), Norwood (4th) Richardson (2nd), Lockett (3rd), Lawler (7th), Moore (7th) Darboh (4th). Granted not a lot of Draft capital spent with the exception of Richardson but you have to think that is NOT a good track record. After 2011 & 2012, JS has been average at best at drafting talent Across the board.

 

[ludakrishna]

It's even more strange they spent a 2nd round pick on Pocic, and he has yet to start.

To me, that's just as troubling.

We cut our backup center because Pocic is very good at being a C. If that's the case, why did we extend Britt? With that logic, he'll never see the field because I don't envision Britt giving up that job. We have gems in this organization when it comes to OL decision making.

 

[Jerhawk]

It's even more strange they spent a 2nd round pick on Pocic, and he has yet to start.

To me, that's just as troubling.

We cut our backup center because Pocic is very good at being a C. If that's the case, why did we extend Britt? With that logic, he'll never see the field because I don't envision Britt giving up that job. We have gems in this organization when it comes to OL decision making.

Exactly. He played the majority of snaps in college at Center. Our best O linemen last year was Britt at Center. So they decide to draft a versatile Center, then extend the contract of our current Center.

I must be missing something here in terms of the logic that was laid out. And if he was taken based off versatility, they seriously don't think he's better than Aboushi, Odhiambo or Joekel? What a draft miss.

But going back to the OP, this whole past draft felt like a swing and miss. Of course they find a late round gem in Carson, and look like a bunch of geniuses for taking him, but the fact they squandered all of the previous draft capital without effectively addressing the team's biggest need is dissapointing.

 

[907Hawk]

Seattle had the 26th pick in the draft. As the 10-minute deadline to make the pick neared, Schneider made the brilliant move to trade that initial pick to the Atlanta Falcons, coached by our former DC Dan Quinn, in exchange for Atlanta’s 31st pick, as well as Atlanta’s 3rd-and-7th-round picks.

This was an amazing move. Schneider added two draft picks, and we were still in a prime position to draft one of the three top offensive tackles on the board: Wisconsin's Ryan Ramczyk, Alabama's Cam Robinson, or Western Michigan's Taylor Moton. As fortune had it, Seattle was in a position to draft TWO of these three linemen with their first two picks.

But then something very curious happened. Schneider doubled down, got on the phone with new-49ers GM John Lynch, and traded away the 31st pick to the 49ers to move down into the 2nd round and acquire their 4th round pick. The 49ers selected Reuben Foster with that 31st pick. And then the Saints nabbed Ryan Ramczyk with No. 32.

Ramczyk is a veritable stud. I watched the entire Saints-Panthers game on Sunday, and I couldn't believe my eyes. Brees had an eternity in the pocket. Ramczyk, starting at LT, was crushing guys in the run game and looked like a steely veteran in pass protection. I went back and watched the offensive plays from the Saints' first two weeks, and he was blocking well in those games too. He may be the highest graded rookie tackle, but he doesn't play like a rookie at all. By next season, I think he will be a Pro Bowler.

The problem is not so much that we didn't draft one particular player. After all, no one could be sure at the time that Ramczyk would be playing as well as he is in his first year. The real problem is that we squandered the opportunity to take ANY of the the best available tackles by once again trading out of the first round. And we did it for a 4th rounder.

Schneider is no doubt one of the NFL's best general managers. However, I think he has been too stubborn in his approach to the offensive line. This is not a mistake that should be repeated in the future if we ever hope to rehabilitate the level of talent in the offensive trenches.

Alright, "loss week" rant over. Tear me a new one for being a sorry armchair GM. :2thumbs:

Thanks for the post, in hindsight Ramczyk should have been the Hawks pick, he does look very solid. I don't want to get too picky but he did not play left tackle this week as the Saints moved him to the right tackle spot because of injuries.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It's hard for me to criticize Schneider's draft philosophy, the dude's one of the best, if not THE best at managing picks to maximize talent accumulation.

But when it comes to using that philosophy to draft O-linemen? That's where I have no problem being critical. It's been terrible to downright horrific in the Carroll/Schneider era.

Most draft capital/picks used on the O-line in the league, and year after year continue to have the worst line? You need to change how you're drafting O-linemen, or budget more cap space to overpay for FA linemen.

I have to disagree. Look at WR. We have left better players on the board and instead picked (Durham (4th), Harper (4th), Norwood (4th) Richardson (2nd), Lockett (3rd), Lawler (7th), Moore (7th) Darboh (4th). Granted not a lot of Draft capital spent with the exception of Richardson but you have to think that is NOT a good track record. After 2011 & 2012, JS has been average at best at drafting talent Across the board.

Do I really need to go down the list of talent acquisition via the draft? Russell, Kam, Richard, Carson, Richardson, Lockett, Griffin, KJ, Wagner, Britt, Bennett, Rawls, etc etc. No 1st rounders. Schneider's been brilliant at mining talent, no one can argue that, they just can't.

Most teams have to do it like we saw yesterday with Tennessee.................stink for 10 years stockpiling 1st round talent until you finally get to the point of competing.

 

[TwistedHusky]

If you take out the years that Scott was here, you find that the rest of the drafts were fairly average, leaning to poor.

And it isn't because we are a 'better team' and get lower picks - because many of our great players on the field currently were not drafted in the 1st.

Whoever was helping JS do his job is either no longer there or not empowered to make those decisions - because the results have shifted radically back to average.

He might be OK with cap, because we have been able to keep some importantly players. But the reputation of him being a shrewd evaluator of talent has been tarnished since we lost Scott, or whoever on Scott's team was helping with those picks.

 

[AgentDib]

I'm sure the Seahawks FO would have appreciated a heads up if you had known that 1) our left tackle was going to have a season ending injury in the preseason, and that 2) McDowell was going to have a season ending injury in the offseason, and that 3) Ramczyk was going to recover from his own serious injury without setbacks.

I don't know what they would have done with that knowledge but the off-season would have been much different.

I do know that if they had drafted Ramczyk and he was either still injured or looked raw at this point that there would be an exact clone of this thread about their curious decision to not draft some other rookie who was looking better after 3 games.

 

[Bobblehead]

We draft quantity over quality.. bothers the hell out of me since our method of see who sticks on the Refridge, is not panning out very well. Better one lineman, than 2 that maybe or might not be adequate... I really hate how we draft.

 

[hawknation2017]

I'm sure the Seahawks FO would have appreciated a heads up if you had known that 1) our left tackle was going to have a season ending injury in the preseason, and that 2) McDowell was going to have a season ending injury in the offseason, and that 3) Ramczyk was going to recover from his own serious injury without setbacks.

I don't know what they would have done with that knowledge but the off-season would have been much different.

I do know that if they had drafted Ramczyk and he was either still injured or looked raw at this point that there would be an exact clone of this thread about their curious decision to not draft some other rookie who was looking better after 3 games.

People complain about Ifedi, but I am incredibly thankful that we have him. At least we took a shot on a top prospect and are developing him to help the offensive line improve.

 

[Seymour]

I'm sure the Seahawks FO would have appreciated a heads up if you had known that 1) our left tackle was going to have a season ending injury in the preseason, and that 2) McDowell was going to have a season ending injury in the offseason, and that 3) Ramczyk was going to recover from his own serious injury without setbacks.

I don't know what they would have done with that knowledge but the off-season would have been much different.

I do know that if they had drafted Ramczyk and he was either still injured or looked raw at this point that there would be an exact clone of this thread about their curious decision to not draft some other rookie who was looking better after 3 games.

People complain about Ifedi, but I am incredibly thankful that we have him. At least we took a shot on a top prospect and are developing him to help the offensive line improve.

Could you please define improve? One would hope that would include fewer penalties and pressures allowed in his now 2nd year.

 

[Bobblehead]

I'm sure the Seahawks FO would have appreciated a heads up if you had known that 1) our left tackle was going to have a season ending injury in the preseason, and that 2) McDowell was going to have a season ending injury in the offseason, and that 3) Ramczyk was going to recover from his own serious injury without setbacks.

I don't know what they would have done with that knowledge but the off-season would have been much different.

I do know that if they had drafted Ramczyk and he was either still injured or looked raw at this point that there would be an exact clone of this thread about their curious decision to not draft some other rookie who was looking better after 3 games.

People complain about Ifedi, but I am incredibly thankful that we have him. At least we took a shot on a top prospect and are developing him to help the offensive line improve.

I thought we were mocked for taking Ifedi, that there were a lot better options out there.

 

[Seymour]

I'm sure the Seahawks FO would have appreciated a heads up if you had known that 1) our left tackle was going to have a season ending injury in the preseason, and that 2) McDowell was going to have a season ending injury in the offseason, and that 3) Ramczyk was going to recover from his own serious injury without setbacks.

I don't know what they would have done with that knowledge but the off-season would have been much different.

I do know that if they had drafted Ramczyk and he was either still injured or looked raw at this point that there would be an exact clone of this thread about their curious decision to not draft some other rookie who was looking better after 3 games.

They had a heads up and ignored it! It's called immaturity and red flags. Thats why he dropped, that is why he was available, and that is why (in part) our oline is in the condition it is. It's not top priority. See the Richardson / Lacy signing for further proof.

 

[adeltaY]

We needed Pass Rush

We HAD TO upgrade our OL

I hated the trading down. I was told in the draft threads how stupid I was since we got more 7 rounders...........

Our starting RB is a 7th rounder.

Unfortunately, the pass rush really doesn't seem to have improved yet. In fact, it might be worse. Really hoping that turns around.

 

[NFSeahawks]

So is Pocic bad? Is that why hes not playing?

 

[Hawkspur]

It's funny, I was watching the Browns game with my friend who is a Browns fan (I don't know how he does it) and they have the exact opposite problem on offense as our Hawks. Kizer had a legitimate U shaped pocket on almost all of his passes and wouldn't throw the ball. None of the receivers would get open and dropped many passes. Russell hikes the ball and two linemen are beat before it even reaches him. There is something truly wrong with the evaluation, coaching, and scheme implemented for the offensive line.

Yeah, as far as trading down in the draft goes I didn't have much of a problem when they did it this past draft. I was pretty dispirited a couple of years ago when they traded down to take Paul Richardson (and Cassius Marsh or Kevin Norwood, I think) and passed up the chance to take Joel Bitonio.

 

[Optimus25]

So is Pocic bad? Is that why hes not playing?

To not be playing in light of the caliber of play ahead of him is really frightening in terms of Pocic being my last light of hope for something, anything in the trenches.

 

[Alexander]

So is Pocic bad? Is that why hes not playing?

To not be playing in light of the caliber of play ahead of him is really frightening in terms of Pocic being my last light of hope for something, anything in the trenches.

Part of the problem is that Pocic doesn't have any experience at the positions where we need the most help. He played C in college, and I think RT for a game. I definitely find it odd that they drafted a backup C in the 2nd round when they intended to re-sign Britt all along. I find taking Pocic far more curious than taking McDowell, who at least had the potential to fill a position of need.

That being said, the Hawks did take Ifedi the year before at the end of round 1, so it's not like they aren't willing to invest draft capital in the OL. It's even possible that they liked some of the OL sitting there at the end of round 1 this year, but didn't view them as clear upgrades over Fant. Maybe that was dumb, but with Fant now on IR we'll never know. This discussion about Ramczyk would certainly make a lot more sense if Fant never got hurt and he was playing like crap right now (which is definitely possible). Either way, most teams would be struggling if their starting LT got hurt. There simply aren't that many good ones out there. Certainly not enough to be 2-deep at the position.

 

[bigskydoc]

Wouldn't have mattered if we had taken Ramczyk this year, or Tunsil/ Conklin/Decker last year. They would have been relegated to backup spots, or cut, by a coach who can neither recognize talent, nor coach talent up, nor scheme to maximize the talent on hand. A coach who think's Ifedi's play was dominant, and couldn't integrate Jahri Evans, last year. A coach who muffed on Lang, and overpaid for Joeckel, this year. A coach who has never built anything better than an average line, and who's line has gotten progressively worse every year.

He's been given every opportunity, from the draft to free agency, to obtain and develop players for his two areas of responsibility, and he has demonstrated an absolute failure to develop either area. The two biggest weaknesses of this team are his direct responsibility. With such severe weaknesses in these two areas, it has become possible to completely shut down and defeat the Seahawks with nothing more than Pop Warner level coaching. All you have to do is key in on the receivers, and rush 4. Outlast the Seahawks, until the inevitable mistake is made. Wear out the defense, in the first half, with TOP, then pick them apart in the second half.

Tom Cable is the weakest link, and is directly responsible for the high likelihood that we don't make the playoffs this year.