Seahawks: Money vs. Legacy

[Shock2k]

There has been a lot of discussion around salary cap over the next couple years, and how many stars we are going to have to give up in order keep together (I say this with all the moderation possible) legacy team (or to loose the possibility of a legacy team). To me it comes down to free agency and the desire for money over the desire for legacy.

I wonder if players every consider the question of their legacy (or a better way to say it, is money ever LESS important then legacy). Now with the way teams handle even beloved players(Brett Farve, Joe Montana, Every running back), I don't blame them for "taking all they can" vs "being a part of something historic". Like Moffit said, his impression of the NFL was more of business and less of the "ra, ra, let's win one for the gipper".

I'm not a player so I don't know if they take that into consideration.

Early in my career I had told one my manager that I wanted more money for what I do, I was in a key position in the company so it got escalated up to a meeting with the CEO of the company. He spent about an hour going over the numbers of my division and the salaries that everyone made, and how these reflected on the income the division was bringing in. Though I still disagreed with him, I really appreciated that the company took the time out to go over those numbers, and really showing me that level of respect.

Is that something that the Seahawks could do as an organization? Or with agents doing all negotiation for their clients pretty much keep this kind of thing from happening. (Polyanna)

 

[quadsas]

I dont think it's possible for us to keep everyone even with discounts

 

[cacksman]

I definitely think players will take less money to stay here. It remains to be seen how much less they will take. I could see us losing some good but 2nd tier players such as GT, Browner, etc. I would be VERY surprised if we didn't sign our young core to 2nd contracts(Sherman, ET, Okung, Wagner, and Wilson).

With that type of young nucleus almost guaranteed to stay, as well as continue progressing, Seattle will be a Super Bowl contender for a very long time.

 

[Hawknballs]

In 99% of circumstances I'd say it's sort of a pipe dream to think players are going to take less money to stick with any team.

However I'd caution against just assuming that some of these Seahawks are just going to walk if we can't offer them the best deal. A lot of the guys we've picked up felt like the rest of the league passed on them. Also, when Kam got his deal there was direct talk by the 'legion of boom' about wanting to do whatever they could to keep it together, I don't think you make that sort of statement unprovoked if you're not interested in doing so.

I think what it's going to come down to is how well this team continues to do. If they continue to be a SB contender for the next few years I wouldn't put it past a lot of these guys to give the hawks a bit of a discount to stay in town. Championships mean fame and fame means money and recognition for the rest of your life and in the long run that might pay off more in terms of endorsements and other opportunities than taking some big contract with a non-contender.

The one that I'm really curious about is Russell Wilson. I just don't get the feeling that he wants to get paid as much as he wants to win a championship. If he feels like being in seattle is the best place to do that, I could see him not raking the team over the coals, and understanding that if he hogs all the cap space hes going to have crap around him no matter who he plays for. By the time his contract comes up I think we're going to start seeing the down sides of all of these QB's chewing up cap space. I think he's smart enough to see how harmful that can be, and I just get the sense that he wants to win more than he wants to get paid, and I think he knows that no matter what, he's going to have millions and millions of dollars.

Keep in mind his father was drilling him with mach superbowl interviews when he was just a kid. He wasn't asking him what he was going to do with all his buckets of money. He was pushing him to be a winner.

Could just be being naive though.

 

[Missing_Clink]

Its a business and these guys have a very limited window to maximize their earnings. I do not buy into idea of hometown discounts at all.

 

[Cartire]

I fully believe that if we win it all this year, that many players will give a home team discount. HOWEVER, I dont think that discount will be that much. More of a consideration to undercut other offers, but not enough to take anymore then 5% less.

 

[Hawknballs]

I fully believe that if we win it all this year, that many players will give a home team discount. HOWEVER, I dont think that discount will be that much. More of a consideration to undercut other offers, but not enough to take anymore then 5% less.

'discount' could mean lots of things too. The way the money works in with the cap most importantly. There are certain bonuses that are riskier for the player to take but also cap-friendlier for the same amount of dollars. Also you can negotiate a contract with restructuring later in mind. So you front-load them so they come off the cap a lot one year and then restructure so they still get the same money (and then some with a new contract for more years) but less cap hit later.

 

[kearly]

Up to to this point, Seattle has paid their own free agents market value. Red Bryant got a 5/35 deal. Kam Chancellor got a 4/28 deal. Max Unger got a 4/25 deal. Brandon Mebane got a 5/25 deal. Of those contracts, the Bryant deal is hurting the team, the Chancellor deal is a bit on the high side (for me) but fair, the Unger contract was a buy low deal that turned into a bargain, and Mebane's contract is the perfect reflection of how his national perception does not match how good he is.

Chancellor could have maaaaaybe squeezed in an extra million per year as a FA, and it was said that Bryant turned down a better contract from the Patriots (I'm guessing the difference wasn't too large). Overall, I'm not really seeing anyone that would have gotten much more than they got from us had they left- all of those players signed back at competitive deals. I expect that to continue with our remaining free agents, which means some of our favorite players are going to turn into comp picks starting pretty soon.

 

[Trenchbroom]

Don't forget that unless the team is in TX or FL we have an advantage of no state income tax. That's a pretty big slice of savings for the players and works in our favor.

 

[RUHawk]

As long as vets like Winfield keep signing here for less money it will show the youngsters whats what.

 

[Marvin49]

Players will most always take the $$$$. I don't really blame them either. They only get to play for so long and most will never be in another job that will make even close to this kind of money. They want to get as much as they can get now because they won't be able to later.

You simply can't keep everyone.

Every once in awhile you'll see a vet take less to stay (Justin Smith is a good recent example), but a player in his prime will take the money 99% of the time. Its on your front office to use all avenues to replace those departing players at a lower cost.

You can do this by getting tons of picks like SF has done recently and NE has been doing for years. You do this by resigning players early to lower there cost than if you were to wait till they were free agents. You do this by taking chances drafting injured players or character issue players...IE take talented players and then hoping for the best on the injuries or hoping that your locker room is strong enough to handle the personalities. SF seems to be going the injured player route, but who knows if Looney, Carradine, or Lattimore will ever amount to anything.

NE is again a good example here. They bet on a character issue in Moss and it paid off big. They bet on a character issue in Hernandez and now they are paying for it. They bet on Mallett as well. And Gronk.

SF is kinda a year or 2 ahead of SEA in that they are seeing alot more of their guys approach the ends of their rookie deals...and now they have to make a choice...who do you keep and who do you let go. SEA will get there soon. Those big deals for players like Wilson adn Sherman or going to make it impossible to keep everyone.

I understand what you are saying about sitting down with the players and talking to them about legacy....but they will also have agents in their ears telling them to max out their contracts while they can. It doesn't help when you see whats happened to guys like Abraham, Woodson, Freeny and others. They are at the end and can't get large contracts. that just tells players that teams won't have any loyalty so they have to get their money when they can.

 

[hawker84]

Sounds about right to me....

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Uninfortunately but I think you're right. But surprising things happen so there is hope.

 

[The Radish]

Up to to this point, Seattle has paid their own free agents market value. Red Bryant got a 5/35 deal. Kam Chancellor got a 4/28 deal. Max Unger got a 4/25 deal. Brandon Mebane got a 5/25 deal. Of those contracts, the Bryant deal is hurting the team, the Chancellor deal is a bit on the high side (for me) but fair, the Unger contract was a buy low deal that turned into a bargain, and Mebane's contract is the perfect reflection of how his national perception does not match how good he is.

Chancellor could have maaaaaybe squeezed in an extra million per year as a FA, and it was said that Bryant turned down a better contract from the Patriots (I'm guessing the difference wasn't too large). Overall, I'm not really seeing anyone that would have gotten much more than they got from us had they left- all of those players signed back at competitive deals. I expect that to continue with our remaining free agents, which means some of our favorite players are going to turn into comp picks starting pretty soon.

Hey Kip,,,I thought you broke up with that gal......

 

[Marvin49]

Uninfortunately but I think you're right. But surprising things happen so there is hope.

Thats true. I was kinda shocked when Justin resigned for as little as he did so there are times that a guy will do that....but those seem to be few and far between.

Justin tho was on his THIRD contract and was a high first rounder to start...IE, he already made his money.

Guys who are taken now will have a smallish contract to start thanks to the new CBA so any guy coming off his rookie contract is going to be looking for big $$$$ when they hit free agency.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Uninfortunately but I think you're right. But surprising things happen so there is hope.

Thats true. I was kinda shocked when Justin resigned for as little as he did so there are times that a guy will do that....but those seem to be few and far between.

Justin tho was on his THIRD contract and was a high first rounder to start...IE, he already made his money.

Guys who are taken now will have a smallish contract to start thanks to the new CBA so any guy coming off his rookie contract is going to be looking for big $$$$ when they hit free agency.

True but I do think in the case of the LOB and Wilson it's a bit different. We already have Harvin locked up and we have Marshawn's replacements in the pipeline. We should have no problem locking up Okung so really it's all the DL/DT for us and we have a bunch on rookie contracts so that may not be a worry either.

 

[Hawks46]

That's the thing I'm looking at.....Earl Thomas made some good money on his rookie deal, and so did Okung. They came in before the bargain basement rookie deals.

I think Wilson is the one guy that would take a bit less money, ie: not maximizing the deal. Make no mistake, he's not going to come cheap. But I definately don't think he's going to pull a Flacco. He knows if he does that, he's looking at throwing to no name chumps for a good portion of his career (outside of Harvin) and having no name chumps blocking for him. He also looks up to guys like Brady, who just took a very team friendly deal to keep some talent around him.

I see Sherman as being gone already. He desperately craves the recognition of being the best CB out there, and I think that comes with the contract. He's going to see what Revis got and top it, if nothing else for competition's sake. No way are we going to pay that to a CB with this roster as it sits. We have too many guys we can plug in and make this defense work to be held hostage by one guy.

Overall the Hawks do a tremendous job of taking care of their guys, giving them respect, and making them feel needed. Sometimes that's all these guys are looking for.

 

[Marvin49]

That's the thing I'm looking at.....Earl Thomas made some good money on his rookie deal, and so did Okung. They came in before the bargain basement rookie deals.

I think Wilson is the one guy that would take a bit less money, ie: not maximizing the deal. Make no mistake, he's not going to come cheap. But I definately don't think he's going to pull a Flacco. He knows if he does that, he's looking at throwing to no name chumps for a good portion of his career (outside of Harvin) and having no name chumps blocking for him. He also looks up to guys like Brady, who just took a very team friendly deal to keep some talent around him.

I see Sherman as being gone already. He desperately craves the recognition of being the best CB out there, and I think that comes with the contract. He's going to see what Revis got and top it, if nothing else for competition's sake. No way are we going to pay that to a CB with this roster as it sits. We have too many guys we can plug in and make this defense work to be held hostage by one guy.

Overall the Hawks do a tremendous job of taking care of their guys, giving them respect, and making them feel needed. Sometimes that's all these guys are looking for.

I really can't see Wilson taking less than Market value, but I can see him taking a deal that is structured is such a way that it doesn't hurt them early in resigning young players and then might restructure again on the back end of the deal to make it more friendly.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

That's the thing I'm looking at.....Earl Thomas made some good money on his rookie deal, and so did Okung. They came in before the bargain basement rookie deals.

I think Wilson is the one guy that would take a bit less money, ie: not maximizing the deal. Make no mistake, he's not going to come cheap. But I definately don't think he's going to pull a Flacco. He knows if he does that, he's looking at throwing to no name chumps for a good portion of his career (outside of Harvin) and having no name chumps blocking for him. He also looks up to guys like Brady, who just took a very team friendly deal to keep some talent around him.

I see Sherman as being gone already. He desperately craves the recognition of being the best CB out there, and I think that comes with the contract. He's going to see what Revis got and top it, if nothing else for competition's sake. No way are we going to pay that to a CB with this roster as it sits. We have too many guys we can plug in and make this defense work to be held hostage by one guy.

Overall the Hawks do a tremendous job of taking care of their guys, giving them respect, and making them feel needed. Sometimes that's all these guys are looking for.

I really can't see Wilson taking less than Market value, but I can see him taking a deal that is structured is such a way that it doesn't hurt them early in resigning young players and then might restructure again on the back end of the deal to make it more friendly.

Much like Brady. Brady got his money but the contract is cap friendly and I have a feeling Wilson will be looking to do the same.

My question to you is...what is Keapernick's mindset on this issue given he will be coming up next year right? Or maybe even this year?

 

[Marvin49]

That's the thing I'm looking at.....Earl Thomas made some good money on his rookie deal, and so did Okung. They came in before the bargain basement rookie deals.

I think Wilson is the one guy that would take a bit less money, ie: not maximizing the deal. Make no mistake, he's not going to come cheap. But I definately don't think he's going to pull a Flacco. He knows if he does that, he's looking at throwing to no name chumps for a good portion of his career (outside of Harvin) and having no name chumps blocking for him. He also looks up to guys like Brady, who just took a very team friendly deal to keep some talent around him.

I see Sherman as being gone already. He desperately craves the recognition of being the best CB out there, and I think that comes with the contract. He's going to see what Revis got and top it, if nothing else for competition's sake. No way are we going to pay that to a CB with this roster as it sits. We have too many guys we can plug in and make this defense work to be held hostage by one guy.

Overall the Hawks do a tremendous job of taking care of their guys, giving them respect, and making them feel needed. Sometimes that's all these guys are looking for.

You may be right on Sherman. If he continues to play the way he has he'll be looking for HUGE $$$$.

Some team out there desperate for a player might be willing to go nuts on a contract, but my guess is Seattle won't, and shouldn't pay him that way. You have too many good players that need good contracts to splurge so much on one player who wants to set salary records.

Niners kinda ran into that with Goldson on a smaller scale.