Seahawks QB1 (34th best qb in the league???)

JayhawkMike

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The job of the HC is to put a plan together that works and that the players can execute. If the players cannot or do not execute it - it is the fault of the HC, not the player. Because the HC should not have put the player in that position anyway.

So if the QB could not produce given the gameplans by the OC, then HC is at fault for not making the OC put gameplans in place that the QB would be able to work with.
It makes no sense to plan things that won't work because the pieces cannot deliver the outcome, no matter how seemingly sound the plan is...if the pieces cannot be used to deliver it? Or likely won't deliver it? Then it is just a failed plan.

We call these things wishes.

Nobody cares about almost. You don't get points for plausibility. This is why being at the 1 and 'almost' winning the SB is still considered a colossal failure.

If you have a great QB but that QB can't do what the OC needs him to do, then the OC needs to ask him (or plan for him) to do something else.

The OC is responsible for the offense's success, not the QB. That OC is chosen by the HC to do this. The HC needs to delegate, then the OC needs to deliver. But the HC is culpable.

The HC is ALWAYS to blame. It is ALWAYS his fault. His responsibility. That is the job.
I wish I could “like” this 100 times.
 

hawkfan68

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Pete doesn't strike me as the type of coach that would keep playing someone who repeatedly isn't following his plan. That's why I don't agree with the opinion that Russ was doing things his way and not following what is called. Pete isn't the type to let a player or players walk over him like that. I believe that he would agree with majority of what Russ was doing to stick with him.
 

fenderbender123

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I'm telling ya... Pete gets more out of his QBs than most coaches. Expect Wilson to decline and Lock to play better.
 

toffee

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I'm telling ya... Pete gets more out of his QBs than most coaches. Expect Wilson to decline and Lock to play better.
yes, but with Russ, it was the first three years or so, at the point, Russ felt like Pete's system was too limiting, it was choking his MVP chances.
 

JayhawkMike

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I'm telling ya... Pete gets more out of his QBs than most coaches. Expect Wilson to decline and Lock to play better.
I have no idea but my expectation is that initially RW tries to silence his critics and does all those things we wanted him to do but he wouldn’t do. Take the check down, throw in the middle of the field etc. then I think he reverts back. We will see
 

m0ng0

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I'm in
I have no idea but my expectation is that initially RW tries to silence his critics and does all those things we wanted him to do but he wouldn’t do. Take the check down, throw in the middle of the field etc. then I think he reverts back. We will see
I agree 💯
 
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keasley45

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Pete doesn't strike me as the type of coach that would keep playing someone who repeatedly isn't following his plan. That's why I don't agree with the opinion that Russ was doing things his way and not following what is called. Pete isn't the type to let a player or players walk over him like that. I believe that he would agree with majority of what Russ was doing to stick with him.

I think that's exactly what happened. He allowed it because Russ took care of the ball and his defense kept games close enough that Russ could do his thing outside the playbook. And the members of the LOB are known to have resented Pete for not getting on Russ for playing better. And you could see last year and in 2020 that Pete was frustrated and that Russ had come to the point that he didnt care (last year). The style of play that Russ was running was the same its been for years. the difference is that in 2020, Russ refused to take the direction that we should run more or that he should try more to take the plays that are there for him to take. This is on record for many of the games last year (Titans, Vikings, GB, Washington, etc) . Pete was pissed.

Pete preaches a style of play that emphasizes the idea of there being two plays in every play. The play that's called, and the play that happens after if that play breaks down. There's inherently a grey area there. For Russ, the fact that he was able to succeed in the second half of plays, won him Pete's support. And so as long he did that, and especially with his penchant for the spectacular, they made it work. That didn't help Pete with the resentment from the LOB that he wasn't holding Russ accountable for playing better (ie. executing plays). Living off of the 2nd half of the play inherently invites more sacks, more risk, and relies 100% on the QB improv skills. It also leads to 3 and outs and shortened drives. The LOB had to make up for that. They did, AND Russ got the accolades for the comebacks and spectacular plays, but without a hint of accountability for what he wasnt doing well. And Pete let it happen. Likely in part because he knew that for what Russ couldnt do, as long as he could rely on a run game, he could help the offense (Russ) overcome the shortfalls in execution and defenses taking advantage of it.

In 2018ish, Russ started to not want to lean on the run and just play his way. And instead of taking responsibility for not getting the play off when it was supposed to or hitting the receiver that was designed to be open, he went all in on what he did when he abandoned the play, and blamed the play call for the need to do so, or Pete's correction to run more for the his struggles. Yes there were periods when Russ HAD to leave the pocket because the protection was bad and yes, the plays werent always open. They dont work 100% of the time. But he left a lot on the field. He also made up for it quite often. And where Pete and he agreed was on the big shots off of play action. But Russ's plan to overcome his deficiencies is to be able to stand behind an O-line that can provide him the time he typically bought with his legs, in the pocket.

Can that work? i suppose if he gets all world protection on most every drop. But lines that pass block well, dont often run block as well. And lines that are in pass-pro 60 % of the game, are also at a physical disadvantage. So we will see.
 

toffee

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I have no idea but my expectation is that initially RW tries to silence his critics and does all those things we wanted him to do but he wouldn’t do. Take the check down, throw in the middle of the field etc. then I think he reverts back. We will see


In short, Russ won't change, he is now his own man. He wants to be league MVP and all-pro first team so bad,
 
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keasley45

keasley45

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The job of the HC is to put a plan together that works and that the players can execute. If the players cannot or do not execute it - it is the fault of the HC, not the player. Because the HC should not have put the player in that position anyway.

So if the QB could not produce given the gameplans by the OC, then HC is at fault for not making the OC put gameplans in place that the QB would be able to work with.
It makes no sense to plan things that won't work because the pieces cannot deliver the outcome, no matter how seemingly sound the plan is...if the pieces cannot be used to deliver it? Or likely won't deliver it? Then it is just a failed plan.

We call these things wishes.

Nobody cares about almost. You don't get points for plausibility. This is why being at the 1 and 'almost' winning the SB is still considered a colossal failure.

If you have a great QB but that QB can't do what the OC needs him to do, then the OC needs to ask him (or plan for him) to do something else.

The OC is responsible for the offense's success, not the QB. That OC is chosen by the HC to do this. The HC needs to delegate, then the OC needs to deliver. But the HC is culpable.

The HC is ALWAYS to blame. It is ALWAYS his fault. His responsibility. That is the job.

There's a baseline for expectation for a professional athlete. If a qb can't make a play to a certain part of the field or struggles to read coverage, a coach can devise a way to work around that, but at a point, a player needs to play his position.

But working around Russ and what he couldnt do is what Pete did. The reason its not evident and wanst even touched on in public until 2020 was because Pete RARELY calls out players in public. And of you asl Sherm and the LOB, he never called put Russ. The fact that people don't like is that the workaround for Russ not being able hit the shallow plays, or the quick developing routes, or seeing portions of the field, is leaning more on the run game.

A qb like Brady, Rodgers, etc. If you take away the long ball, they go short. If you take away the outside routes, they go inside. If they bring pressure, they hit the quick outlets.

You can look this up and watch tape yourself specifically over the last few years. Russ had control of the offense. It was made clear at the start of last year even. He could check or audible to whatever he liked.

How many times did he audible to a 3 step drop, 5 step, or pass from under center, not off of play action? Hardly ever. This isn't me making Sh!t up. It's statistical fact. It's not his preference because it puts him in a position to make throws he can't make or doenst feel comfortblable making. If he could he'd check to those as often as he did his longer developing reads.

But as a coach, If you take off the table 3 step quick hitters, 5 step drops and the routes off of them and your offense is predominantly run out of shotgun and deep drops, what does your OC or have to go to help the qb?

A logical xs and os answer is effective running. And running is in Pete's wheel house anyway. So, that's the relationship they developed. Until Russ thought he could fix it through a more dynamic passing game and 3 seconds of protection every drop. But 3 seconds is what you need if you're not taking the quicker stuff and playing the way Russ wants. Yeah. He will throw quick routes. But they are the type you saw to start the 2nd Niners game. Watch the condensed version and you'll see what I mean. And they are routes that often defenses will give him.
 
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keasley45

keasley45

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The job of the HC is to put a plan together that works and that the players can execute. If the players cannot or do not execute it - it is the fault of the HC, not the player. Because the HC should not have put the player in that position anyway.

So if the QB could not produce given the gameplans by the OC, then HC is at fault for not making the OC put gameplans in place that the QB would be able to work with.
It makes no sense to plan things that won't work because the pieces cannot deliver the outcome, no matter how seemingly sound the plan is...if the pieces cannot be used to deliver it? Or likely won't deliver it? Then it is just a failed plan.

We call these things wishes.

Nobody cares about almost. You don't get points for plausibility. This is why being at the 1 and 'almost' winning the SB is still considered a colossal failure.

If you have a great QB but that QB can't do what the OC needs him to do, then the OC needs to ask him (or plan for him) to do something else.

The OC is responsible for the offense's success, not the QB. That OC is chosen by the HC to do this. The HC needs to delegate, then the OC needs to deliver. But the HC is culpable.

The HC is ALWAYS to blame. It is ALWAYS his fault. His responsibility. That is the job.
So you think the HC was to blame for Lock not playing well in Denver then, correct?
 

TwistedHusky

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Absolutely.

Or more appropriately, I believe that a better head coach could have gotten more out of Lock. I still don't think Lock is worth much. I believe only a spectacular offensive-minded HC could turn him into a consistent winner.
But could Lock have done more in a better framework? Almost certainly.

Weirdly, your entire post about the LOB & Russ? I agree with about 85% of.
The LOB HATED that the defense was held to certain standards and the offense was held to completely different standards.
It caused rifts, including rifts in the offense because Marshawn wasn't having it. Recall there was a Lynch group and a Wilson group rift in the team at one point.

That was about the time when some of what Carroll was selling, (internally to the team), people stopped buying.
 

sc85sis

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Pete doesn't strike me as the type of coach that would keep playing someone who repeatedly isn't following his plan. That's why I don't agree with the opinion that Russ was doing things his way and not following what is called. Pete isn't the type to let a player or players walk over him like that. I believe that he would agree with majority of what Russ was doing to stick with him.
Generally, I'd agree with that. But QB is a bit different than any other position. You can replace a receiver, linebacker, corner, etc. It's a lot harder to replace your starting QB - especially when he has had success.

There's a reason they picked up Lock in the trade. They're hoping he can elevate his game with better, more consistent coaching and take advantage of his apparent physical ability.
 

Rosco

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Generally, I'd agree with that. But QB is a bit different than any other position. You can replace a receiver, linebacker, corner, etc. It's a lot harder to replace your starting QB - especially when he has had success.

There's a reason they picked up Lock in the trade. They're hoping he can elevate his game with better, more consistent coaching and take advantage of his apparent physical ability.
Exactly,All head coaches won’t play a player who doesn’t follow the plan, with the exception of QBs. Patrick Mahommes notoriously doesn’t follow Andy Reid’s plan but because of his ability to make plays outside of the play design they are allowed a lot of wiggle room to improvise.

Also Wilson’s contract dictated he would be the starter week in & week out.
As M. Wiley once stated(paraphrasing) ‘you want to know who’s starting? Look at who’s making the most money’
 

strohmin

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I'm telling ya... Pete gets more out of his QBs than most coaches. Expect Wilson to decline and Lock to play better.
I somewhat doubt this. Russell is probably better than Pete could take advantage of. I actually think Russell will succeed somewhere that caters specifically to his strengths and Pete needs a QB like Drew Lock. I really believe it was best for both sides to part ways.
 

Rosco

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I somewhat doubt this. Russell is probably better than Pete could take advantage of. I actually think Russell will succeed somewhere that caters specifically to his strengths and Pete needs a QB like Drew Lock. I really believe it was best for both sides to part ways.
PC did a Bill Belichek and got rid of a player a year early rather than a year late.
RW plays sandlot football and due to his height impairment, he has to rely on his quickness and mobility to run around & find passing lanes. Well,that quickness/mobility isn’t going to be there for him as he gets older. RW is going to have to learn to play from the pocket which is not a strength of his.
 

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