Lynch'sLamborghini
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To my eyes, Michael Sam looked flat awful at the Combine. I will not be surprised if he goes UDFA.
Lynch'sLamborghini":297r2983 said:To my eyes, Michael Sam looked flat awful at the Combine. I will not be surprised if he goes UDFA.
And yet no one received more coverage than him...Sarlacc83":i5zm5klj said:Lynch'sLamborghini":i5zm5klj said:To my eyes, Michael Sam looked flat awful at the Combine. I will not be surprised if he goes UDFA.
17 reps on the bench will definitely lower his SPARQ rating.
Hawkfan77":1e8hraln said:And yet no one received more coverage than him...Sarlacc83":1e8hraln said:Lynch'sLamborghini":1e8hraln said:To my eyes, Michael Sam looked flat awful at the Combine. I will not be surprised if he goes UDFA.
17 reps on the bench will definitely lower his SPARQ rating.
All I'm going to say was him coming out was a very wise career decision
ImTheScientist":2yafgov4 said:JGfromtheNW":2yafgov4 said:ImTheScientist":2yafgov4 said:He's an undersized DE ...if he was talented I would say yes, draft him, but he is just another guy. If he wasn't gay he wouldn't even have a thread here. Nothing about his athleticism stands out.
I think it's interesting that people don't think he's anything to think twice about but he was an All-American DE and Co-Defensive Player of the year in arguably the toughest division in college football, the SEC. The dude can play, even if he isn't your prototypical LEO/DE.
No, I have thought about it. It has nothing to do with how someone will translate to the nfl.
Scottemojo":3mbc220t said:I'm 41 and my vertical is higher than Sam's.
You know this WILL be said. Whether by some gay activists (that's the whole point of what they do....bringing attention to their cause), or else from people trying to drum up ratings, clicks or whatever (ala Skip Bayless). It will happen.CPHawk":swapcxfy said:Now if he is undrafted, the stupid media will say its because he came out.
titan3131":3mja0piv said:The same way that Glee made me disgusted by constantly Whining about god making a Character gay.
is the SAME WAY I FEEL ABOUT THIS tool.
he realized he wasnt going to get past the top6 rounds and devised this plot for more media attention.
Worst case scenario he gets 15 minutes of fame / martyrdom for the gay community further imposing stereotypes of football and homosexuality.
Best some dumb team... 49ers /cough get cute and think he would do great in a photo shoot with vernon davis...
kearly":2h1b49wn said:sammyc521":2h1b49wn said:Here's a crazy fact... Many NFL players have already showered with a gay teammate at least some point in their life... They may not have known that someone was gay.
This is clearly a case of "What you don't know can't hurt you." If you found proof that your neighbor of 30 years was a serial killer, would you feel just as good going to bed that night as you did the day before?
The statistical odds are almost 100% that any given NFL locker room will have at least 1 gay man in it. But it's not a problem because it's not on the players consciousness. Out of sight, out of mind. Kind of like how every potato chip you eat is leading to a future heart attack, but nobody cares because it's not front and center in your consciousness.
Sam deserves a chance to play, but I really don't like how people pretend this is a simple, right / wrong issue. It's pretty complicated, and I think compromise should not be hissed at.
If that means having a separate changing / showering area options for heteros that are uncomfortable with a gay teammate, what's so terrible about that? Seems reasonable to me. There might be some division in the locker room, but IMO a degree of isolation is inevitable with a gay football player anyway. Mike-Rob doesn't strike me as a homophobe, but he said himself that he knows a lot of NFL players that don't even want to be seen around gay dudes, don't want to be photographed with them. There are also others who may have religious objections over the lifestyle. If you bring in an openly gay player, you have to accept at least a degree of splintering. So it's best to be prepared for it and make sure the players know that mistreatment will not be tolerated, but also letting those who have fears/issues know that they will not be forced into uncomfortable situations.
Let's not forget either that the culture of NFL locker rooms, young male culture, and black culture isn't exactly gay friendly. This is going to be a challenge. To throw Sam into one of these cauldrons without proper thought and preparation does him and all future openly gay athletes a disservice.
So if Seattle did not want the guy, it would be because of his sexuality?SonicHawk":16b2d8f1 said:He had a crappy combine but produced for years in the SEC. Combine is meaningless, stop pretending that his poor showing even matters. Half of you in this thread are honestly one step away from calling him a bad name. If you don't care about him being gay, move on. If you understand that this actually matters in not only football but the rest of society, come and discuss.
I guarantee that if Sam doesn't get drafted it will be because of his homosexuality. If he had been quiet and none of this ever came out there's no question he would have been a late round pick regardless of the combine. nAn SEC def co-player of the year, all SEC first team, first team all american, & Bednarik semifinalist doesn't go undrafted.
This thread is proof of the BS he has to deal with as a football player and individual.
SonicHawk":19pifz9p said:kearly":19pifz9p said:sammyc521":19pifz9p said:Here's a crazy fact... Many NFL players have already showered with a gay teammate at least some point in their life... They may not have known that someone was gay.
This is clearly a case of "What you don't know can't hurt you." If you found proof that your neighbor of 30 years was a serial killer, would you feel just as good going to bed that night as you did the day before?
The statistical odds are almost 100% that any given NFL locker room will have at least 1 gay man in it. But it's not a problem because it's not on the players consciousness. Out of sight, out of mind. Kind of like how every potato chip you eat is leading to a future heart attack, but nobody cares because it's not front and center in your consciousness.
Sam deserves a chance to play, but I really don't like how people pretend this is a simple, right / wrong issue. It's pretty complicated, and I think compromise should not be hissed at.
If that means having a separate changing / showering area options for heteros that are uncomfortable with a gay teammate, what's so terrible about that? Seems reasonable to me. There might be some division in the locker room, but IMO a degree of isolation is inevitable with a gay football player anyway. Mike-Rob doesn't strike me as a homophobe, but he said himself that he knows a lot of NFL players that don't even want to be seen around gay dudes, don't want to be photographed with them. There are also others who may have religious objections over the lifestyle. If you bring in an openly gay player, you have to accept at least a degree of splintering. So it's best to be prepared for it and make sure the players know that mistreatment will not be tolerated, but also letting those who have fears/issues know that they will not be forced into uncomfortable situations.
Let's not forget either that the culture of NFL locker rooms, young male culture, and black culture isn't exactly gay friendly. This is going to be a challenge. To throw Sam into one of these cauldrons without proper thought and preparation does him and all future openly gay athletes a disservice.
Kearly, while you bring up excellent points for a conversation about reality I think you're missing the largest point:
Players need to get over it.
And they will.
A separate shower would be like when football was first integrated having a separate shower for whites and blacks. You want Sam to shower alone? How is that beneficial for the team? Female reporters are constantly in the locker room when players are showered, nude and giving interviews.
You're worried about showering with Sam? What are you worried about? Exactly, it's a nothing issue. Get in the shower and move on you big wuss.
This WILL be a challenge. I have no doubt. I won't be surprised if Sam has a very short career (beyond the fact that he's a late round pick). It's a lot to deal with.
Cartire":3tp8zmy0 said:So then you agree, all bathrooms/locker rooms should be coed. I mean really, the separation of women and men is just like the separation of blacks and whites.....1
SonicHawk":xmt1eayr said:Cartire":xmt1eayr said:So then you agree, all bathrooms/locker rooms should be coed. I mean really, the separation of women and men is just like the separation of blacks and whites.....1
Sometimes I want to slap you misquoting, misrepresenting jackals that post on this forum.
I never said anything about coed locker rooms. Michael Sam is a male. He changes in a men's locker room. Are you suggesting that he have his own locker rooms because in his personal life he enjoys the company of another gay male?
Grow up.
SonicHawk":1d9ia8s7 said:Cartire":1d9ia8s7 said:So then you agree, all bathrooms/locker rooms should be coed. I mean really, the separation of women and men is just like the separation of blacks and whites.....1
Sometimes I want to slap you misquoting, misrepresenting jackals that post on this forum.
I never said anything about coed locker rooms. Michael Sam is a male. He changes in a men's locker room. Are you suggesting that he have his own locker rooms because in his personal life he enjoys the company of another gay male?
Grow up.