.SI Article....The turmoil in Seattle..any truth?

[Sgt. Largent]

We drove off the guys that were upset. But many of those guys might have been upset for a legit reason. Now it is on Pete to assure that the people and system he enabled, at the expense of the people/system he drove off, are worth it.

Welcome to the hater culture, where nobody has a legit gripe, they're just haters.

And it's OK to be upset for legit reasons.............but it's not OK to undermine your coach by being a negative influence on and off the field to the detriment of your team.

That's what losers do, not winners. Winners put aside their differences for the betterment of the team, the get past it because they know it's not helping win.

 

[DJrmb]

We drove off the guys that were upset. But many of those guys might have been upset for a legit reason. Now it is on Pete to assure that the people and system he enabled, at the expense of the people/system he drove off, are worth it.

Welcome to the hater culture, where nobody has a legit gripe, they're just haters.

And it's OK to be upset for legit reasons.............but it's not OK to undermine your coach by being a negative influence on and off the field to the detriment of your team.

That's what losers do, not winners. Winners put aside their differences for the betterment of the team, the get past it because they know it's not helping win.

Well said, and sometimes you have to be able to accept that your initial perspective/opinion was wrong. Seems that's a lost art now days.

 

[mrt144]

We drove off the guys that were upset. But many of those guys might have been upset for a legit reason. Now it is on Pete to assure that the people and system he enabled, at the expense of the people/system he drove off, are worth it.

Welcome to the hater culture, where nobody has a legit gripe, they're just haters.

And it's OK to be upset for legit reasons.............but it's not OK to undermine your coach by being a negative influence on and off the field to the detriment of your team.

That's what losers do, not winners. Winners put aside their differences for the betterment of the team, the get past it because they know it's not helping win.

I think that falls back on Pete changing some of the relationship dynamics with the instance of being able to talk smack at practice to RW evaporating. It must have been a mind screw to buy in and think it's one way and have that change for no apparent reason.

I think there are different schools on eeking out the best from everyone where some think iron sharpens iron to the extreme and others think of it more like a garden where you use the iron lovingly to turn over the soil and plant seeds.

 

[TwistedHusky]

mr144,

If the defensive players were the reason for the wins, and they were, then their gripes are legit. Real or imagined. Pete had an obligation to address them and address them in a way that supported by leaders on this team.

Failing to do that? Results in this.

A general rule in running successful organizations says that you address the concerns of the people responsible for your success or you face consequences. That can be active resistance, passive resistance, or loss of the talent altogether. While the 'rest of the NFL' has special rules for the QB, the 'rest of the NFL' did not depend on the defense to literally win games like we did. Our defense was the key to our success.

The loss of that? Led to the loss of success.

Regardless, the bridge burned down. The Seahawks are no longer great. They are taking average talent released by average teams in the hope of shoring up an average roster. When they were great, guys were getting signed from the practice squad and being turned into starting players on other teams.

It probably does not matter, the players that matter in this are gone or soon to be. The bet Pete made on Wilson either pans out or it doesn't. That is on Wilson at this point, but I don't think he needed the protection in the first place.

We can only move forward from here. We aren't a top 5 or even a top 10 team anymore.

This was more a post-mortem of what could have been an all-time great team.

 

[Scorpion05]

As much as I think Brock Huard is the broiest bro that ever bro'd in Brotown, he said this morning after Brock and Salk interviewed the author of this article that he relates to what Russell's going through not really fitting in with his teammates.

Remember, most of the team leaders, especially on the defensive side of the ball were self admitted "dogs." Meaning tough, from the streets, raw, real, and downright thuggish. Again, self admitted.

In comes a QB that came from an affluent area, didn't drink, talked about abstaining from sex before marriage. Russell was an odd dude to all these guys.

Brock said he went through some of the same stuff, being the coach's son, Christian, etc. all the way through college.

So when there's even a little favoritism, perceived or real? Combine that with one of the worst losses in SB history? How could the whole thing NOT implode?

You put this in a way I could not (or at least Brock did). Your second paragraph alludes to the fact that had Wilson NOT been black, there'd been less of a problem.

Not to derail the thread, but I personally believe that factors in. It reminds me of Donovan McNabb and RG3. Players felt like those QBs weren't "one of the guys" and were too buddy buddy with the front office. The whole Russell not being "black enough" comments is what seals it for me.

Then you have Qbs like Vick and Cam, who were seen as more "relatable" culturally. It is what it is. It's really stupid for them to have an expectation of Russell and how he was treated that they never would if Derek Carr, Carson Wentz, or Jared Goff was their QB

 

[mrt144]

mr144,

If the defensive players were the reason for the wins, and they were, then their gripes are legit. Real or imagined. Pete had an obligation to address them and address them in a way that supported by leaders on this team.

Failing to do that? Results in this.

A general rule in running successful organizations says that you address the concerns of the people responsible for your success or you face consequences. That can be active resistance, passive resistance, or loss of the talent altogether. While the 'rest of the NFL' has special rules for the QB, the 'rest of the NFL' did not depend on the defense to literally win games like we did. Our defense was the key to our success.

The loss of that? Led to the loss of success.

Regardless, the bridge burned down. The Seahawks are no longer great. They are taking average talent released by average teams in the hope of shoring up an average roster. When they were great, guys were getting signed from the practice squad and being turned into starting players on other teams.

It probably does not matter, the players that matter in this are gone or soon to be. The bet Pete made on Wilson either pans out or it doesn't. That is on Wilson at this point, but I don't think he needed the protection in the first place.

We can only move forward from here. We aren't a top 5 or even a top 10 team anymore.

This was more a post-mortem of what could have been an all-time great team.

Agreed! My boss always reminds me as a the face and front for our IT department that perception is often reality, especially in intrapersonal relationships at work.

 

[hawknation2018]

The fundamental pillar of Pete's philosophy is "protect the team." When things get out of hand, he always makes a point to remind the team to "take care of each other."

It's never about protecting one player. It's about protecting the team. Carroll never would have said "protect Russell Wilson," as the article erroneously claims, he would have said "protect each other."

And about that. Two articles have spawned from the same overplayed incident: the “you f------ suck." This is the only specific incident ever given for the supposed preferential treatment of their franchise QB. What coach would have allowed an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty to occur in practice without addressing it?

Protect the team. I think it's funny that contrarian fans like to smile and say "thank you" after being reamed.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

We drove off the guys that were upset. But many of those guys might have been upset for a legit reason. Now it is on Pete to assure that the people and system he enabled, at the expense of the people/system he drove off, are worth it.

Welcome to the hater culture, where nobody has a legit gripe, they're just haters.

And it's OK to be upset for legit reasons.............but it's not OK to undermine your coach by being a negative influence on and off the field to the detriment of your team.

That's what losers do, not winners. Winners put aside their differences for the betterment of the team, the get past it because they know it's not helping win.

I think that falls back on Pete changing some of the relationship dynamics with the instance of being able to talk smack at practice to RW evaporating. It must have been a mind screw to buy in and think it's one way and have that change for no apparent reason.

I think there are different schools on eeking out the best from everyone where some think iron sharpens iron to the extreme and others think of it more like a garden where you use the iron lovingly to turn over the soil and plant seeds.

Oh it was definitely on Pete.

I hope that's not lost on anyone as they read this article. It's not about Russell, it's about Sherman, it's not about any of the players..............this article is an indictment on how Pete mismanaged the entire situation.

- should have fired Bevell after the SB loss
- should have fired Cable last year
- should have traded both Sherman and Bennett after 2016

But Pete being Pete with his positive ego? He thought he could fix it, not realizing after one of the worst losses in SB history, it was never going to be fixable.

 

[Scorpion05]

The absolute lack of intelligence from some of our past players is Amazing. Really amazing.

So Russell is treated differently than the other players? Like EVERY OTHER young franchise QB? Seriously? Okay. Even when it came to Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, David Carr etc. etc., coaches care deeply about building up a young Quarterback's confidence

And then this entire narrative of "they wanted to give Russell Wilson the credit" is so incredibly sickening and brain dead. I've heard Stephen A Smith and others repeat this narrative and the stupidity of it drives me nuts. The play right BEFORE that, Marshawn Lynch ran for 4.5 yards and got STOPPED at the 0.5 yard line. So what you're telling me is Pete Carroll is so psychic, he knew Marshawn wouldn't get the touchdown? Maybe idk, he decided to run a play to try something different, based on perceived matchups?? :177692:

Whatever Dude. Over these egotistical crybabies. And they also pretend as if Russell's read option, mobility, and deep throw ability had nothing to do with enhancing Lynch's success. What did the team do when the offense was solely based on Lynch? Glad many of them are gone.

Hold on now.

I agree that just about every other franchise QB is treated differently, but this was not suppose to be like every other franchise.

That was Pete's mantra from day #1.

- compete
- open competition
- I let my players be themselves
- we're going to do things different
- all for one and one for all

On and on, and then when Russell isn't allowed to be criticized and is perceived to not have to be included in Pete's philosophical foundation? You can see where that would undermine his message, and cause the issues it caused.

BUT, I agree that doesn't excuse the downright divisive behavior we saw from some players the last couple of years. Team should always come first, no matter what your personal issues or complaints are. Guys like Wagner, KJ and Doug understand this.................and that's why they're still here, and the rest aren't.

If these players really expected that, then they're the literal definition of an average Joe thinking that they'd know how to run a corporation or a business. Everyone can have an opinion, but you have to be able to think beyond your biases.

The NFL is a Quarterback driven league. Period, point blank. Quarterbacks live within an entirely different world all together. No team, regardless of culture is going anywhere with a shitty Quarterback

Pete & John understand this. Hence, they held Russell to a different standard. They focused on building up his confidence. This isn't the 1985 Bears or the 2000 Ravens. Maybe this mindset would have worked back then when simply having a great defense and running game could get you a championship. But these days you NEED a QB. You cannot win without one. So they are held to a different standard, by different rules. Their confidence has to be built up. The gas you put in your Ferrari is different from the gas you put in your Camaro. Had Pete gone against every QB psychological standard and not protected Russell, who knows where we'd be as a franchise. The level of disrespect and attacks thrown at Russell is not normal, it's toxic. Especially for a guy that by everyone's account is a great person

 

[adeltaY]

Not drama related, but anyone find it weird how Carroll was so intent on protecting Wilson from criticism, but did jack shit to protect him on the field?

 

[mrt144]

Welcome to the hater culture, where nobody has a legit gripe, they're just haters.

And it's OK to be upset for legit reasons.............but it's not OK to undermine your coach by being a negative influence on and off the field to the detriment of your team.

That's what losers do, not winners. Winners put aside their differences for the betterment of the team, the get past it because they know it's not helping win.

I think that falls back on Pete changing some of the relationship dynamics with the instance of being able to talk smack at practice to RW evaporating. It must have been a mind screw to buy in and think it's one way and have that change for no apparent reason.

I think there are different schools on eeking out the best from everyone where some think iron sharpens iron to the extreme and others think of it more like a garden where you use the iron lovingly to turn over the soil and plant seeds.

Oh it was definitely on Pete.

I hope that's not lost on anyone as they read this article. It's not about Russell, it's about Sherman, it's not about any of the players..............this article is an indictment on how Pete mismanaged the entire situation.

- should have fired Bevell after the SB loss
- should have fired Cable last year
- should have traded both Sherman and Bennett after 2016

But Pete being Pete with his positive ego? He thought he could fix it, not realizing after one of the worst losses in SB history, it was never going to be fixable.

I always joke that how many pro athletes have the experience of losing it in such grand fashion at the margins like that? We know athletes need an emotional armor that supersedes the laymans but I wonder how a tank would fare against an unexpected nuclear explosion. Yah, the armor is there but we're talking bout nukes here.

 

[themunn]

I like the Tony McDaniel comment.
Yeah don't know what he did wrong, yet in the three seasons after we released him he was on the roster of 4 different teams.

And the Kasen Williams thing. Tanner McEvoy hadn't done much, but he had at least caught passes and TDs in a real NFL game. Also at 6'5 6'6' whatever he was, he offered an attribute that Williams didn't. Again, evidences by Williams non-existent career since he left.

Finally, found the Bennett comment interesting about him noting there was no other QB on the roster. Ultimately the QB IS treated differently because there is no position that compares to it.

 

[NJlargent]

The main point of this article is that Carroll mismanaged the team. No other factor led to the team's implosion more than the failure to fire someone after 49 and protect the team. You had a defense that carried the team to the SB and watched the offense throw it all away in one play and no one got fired. Some even criticized the defense for giving up a 10 point lead which is comical. That's a common sense recipe for an implosion.

 

[mrt144]

Not drama related, but anyone find it weird how Carroll was so intent on protecting Wilson from criticism, but did jack shit to protect him on the field?

:lol: I'll harp on it again and again - I think he wanted to protect a positive beacon on the team and thought it would be...bad for the team...if the pluckiest of optimists was taken down a peg.

 

[AROS]

I will always appreciate what these "sources" did for our franchise. I will cheer them when they raise the 12 flag, or when they are inducted into the Ring of Honor and/or Hall of Fame, etc., not for who they are as people, but the players they were for us on gameday.

The immaturity and lack of humility they demonstrate, however, is truly pathetic.

What Would Largent Do?

 

[Scorpion05]

The main point of this article is that Carroll mismanaged the team. No other factor led to the team's implosion more than the failure to fire someone after 49 and protect the team. You had a defense that carried the team to the SB and watched the offense throw it all away in one play and no one got fired. Some even criticized the defense for giving up a 10 point lead which is comical. That's a common sense recipe for an implosion.

That's just the thing though. The offense did their job, the defense did give up a 10 point lead. Most of the money was on the defense. They want to point all the criticism but literally take none of the blame

And sure, you can say Pete mismanaged the team. But I guess I lean a lot towards Pete's style of thinking. These are grown men. Be good to your fellow teammates and treat everyone with respect. As far as I'm concerned, the players letting their egos grow out of proportion is the problem. Pete brought this city a Super Bowl, his method worked. Is he Belicheck? No, neither is every other coach in history. Big freakin whoop. Yet the way people talk on here you'd think the only SuperBowl we'd been to was 49

 

[canucklehead]

I get it .....losing 49 sucked a$$ and I'm sure there is some truth to some of it. But so what, they sound like a bunch of whiners with no accountability themselves. Not a lot of talk about how they struggled to get off the field on 3rd down for the last few years.

I appreciate all these guys did but honestly the article just confirms it was time for all of them to go.

 

[rcaido]

Just sore losers, not every team would win all the time...Even if we did win the Superbowl back to back, didn't make it automatic we would win the following year.

That Panthers game where we had ice skating shoes on...Last year we just had way too many injuries & mental midget kicker.

Despite all that, they have had a winning season every year. One of the most successful team of the decade. They just cant take losses. Any given Sunday, any team can win.

All this venting and blaming Carol is just excuses for losing. They played great but bad luck & other teams being more prepared healthy beat us.

 

[mrt144]

I like the Tony McDaniel comment.
Yeah don't know what he did wrong, yet in the three seasons after we released him he was on the roster of 4 different teams.

And the Kasen Williams thing. Tanner McEvoy hadn't done much, but he had at least caught passes and TDs in a real NFL game. Also at 6'5 6'6' whatever he was, he offered an attribute that Williams didn't. Again, evidences by Williams non-existent career since he left.

Finally, found the Bennett comment interesting about him noting there was no other QB on the roster. Ultimately the QB IS treated differently because there is no position that compares to it.

The Kasen McEvoy thing is a symptom not a cause. When you're hot and bothered you will pick up on anything to support the righteousness of your angst.

 

[mrt144]

I love all the comments foisting it back on the defense. I'm sure y'all have very constructive conversations with your significant others where you invoke their faults as a rebuttal to an obvious specific action of your own that caused disharmony. Foisting it back on the defense is basically "I can't hear you and won't and by the way I will be worse going forward, how you like them apples"