So I'm Listening to Millen This Morning

[dogorama]

Unless Millen was a starting Tackle in the League, I'll go with Cable's assessment of Gilliam over Millen's any day and twice on Sunday.

Cable, like all coaches, is a politician. Last year's mid-August press conference, Cable: "this is the best group I have had to work with." This year's mid-August press conference, Cable: "this is the best group I have had to work with."

 

[chris98251]

Still waiting for Millen to eat his Mic !!!

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

I like Millen.

Like anyone, I don't take his opinion as gospel. I like that he isn't a typical homer. Gives a different perspective that is often missing here locally.

As anyone -- I take bits and pieces of what he provides. The one thing I really do like about Millen, is that he'll tell you why he thinks what he thinks. That's a fresh approach that helps me determine if I agree with him.

One thing I do note that he doesn't have. He doesn't have vision. He doesn't often see the forest for the trees. And he doesn't really have the ability to see what is possible. Only what is. The NFL is rife with analysts and front office personnel like that.

Still, it's valuable to get that input. I don't always agree with it. But I have on many occasions found his insights compelling as a result of his reasoning.

 

[Jazzhawk]

And they ask him to name some things about the Seahawks that disturb or otherwise, stand out to him. He said the same thing I mentioned last week when he said that the one Seahawk he is most concerned with is Gilliam because of his tendency to make such deep drops. He sets up really deep which is concerning because the DE can get up such a head of steam OR make a quick inside move.

So, if you have something to add to that and/or maybe name the one Seahawk that you are most concerned about.

This thread had so much potential.... What I learned is?

Don't start a thread that you want to have intelligent discourse on with any specific name. "I heard on the radio today, some ex-NFL player said he is most concerned about Gilliam, because of his tendency to make such deep drops. He sets up really deep which is concerning because the DE can get up such a head of steam OR make a quick inside move."

Maybe we could have avoided all the ass-biting Hugh Millen criticism that had zero to do with the original topic.

As for my concern? SAM Backer. 2nd is interior D-line. I think the Interior D-line will sort itself out ok. But man, I have seen nothing good yet from, the SAM position.

 

[Sports Hernia]

I am a UW fan and cannot stand Hugh. His X's and O's are fine, but he is stuck in the "1980's conventional wisdom" way of thinking. Throw in his arrogance that he is never wrong and it's a bad mix in my book. His Coug and duck bashing doesn't bother me.

According to Hugh, both Hass (Millen's ex-ball boy in NE) and Jake Locker never threw a bad pass in their college or pro careers it was always the receivers fault .....and I have mad respect for both Hass and Jake but they are not HOF'ers or even close to that.

This is Hugh's wife Michele, which you will have to admit, pretty much ends the debate. Millen wins.

He has a hot wife good for him, most pro athletes do. :2thumbs:
However, it has nothing to do with the discussion.

Also if Millen were some sort of mastermind he'd be working for an NFL club and not on a crappy morning radio show.
I'd take Gruden or Holmie's evaluation skills since they were actual Super Bowl winning head coaches over a back up QB that held clipboards most of his career, but hey, that's just me. 8)

 

[dogorama]

He has a hot wife good for him, most pro athletes do. :2thumbs:
However, it has nothing to do with the discussion.

Whoosh!

Man! Somebody needs a vacation! All this because he noticed that Gilliam takes deep drops?

I never realized he was such a polarizing figure, LOL.

 

[dogorama]

He has a hot wife good for him, most pro athletes do. :2thumbs:
However, it has nothing to do with the discussion.

Exactly, that was the point of posting a pic of his beautiful wife, he is NOT the discussion, nor was he EVER the discussion.

 

[Sports Hernia]

He has a hot wife good for him, most pro athletes do. :2thumbs:
However, it has nothing to do with the discussion.

Exactly, that was the point of posting a pic of his beautiful wife, he is NOT the discussion, nor was he EVER the discussion.

Yes, he is a polarizing figure.......
I'll let you have the last word...... but when you say the guy's name in the title of the thread it does have something to do with the discussion.

 

[hawkfan68]

I'm concerned about Gilliam and LT. I think it will be a long learning curve and I hope RW doesn't get killed in the process. And to L80's point, the loss of Irvin is big. He was very versatile and his impact on the team (while not huge stats) was invaluable. Heck, they have Morgan/Marsh/Clark playing the position at times. Three guys playing what one guy seemed to do. Having guy like Irvin do those things made it easier for them to have roster flexibility. So far Marsh is been unimpressive at LB. I'm not seeing the impact that some claim to see from him.

 

[dogorama]

He has a hot wife good for him, most pro athletes do. :2thumbs:
However, it has nothing to do with the discussion.

Exactly, that was the point of posting a pic of his beautiful wife, he is NOT the discussion, nor was he EVER the discussion.

Yes, he is a polarizing figure.......
I'll let you have the last word...... but when you say the guy's name in the title of the thread it does have something to do with the discussion.

If you go back and read the post you will see that the only reason I even mentioned his name is because he referenced something that I had noticed also. I was hoping for a thread where someone might discuss this particular technique or mention someone else who employed it, not this whole hater diatribe.

As for his being a "mastermind" where did I say that? I said that he knew more about football than anyone on this board, believe it or not there is probably room between that and a mastermind. Everyone has their own version of mastermind though, it would seem to me that someone who has invested his pro money wisely and only feels the need to work a few hrs a week has it pretty figured out.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Still waiting for Millen to eat his Mic !!!

I don't know about all that. When I lived in Washington he was about the best thing going on local sports radio. He gave actual analysis with valid reasoning (if wrong sometimes) but he never talked out of his ass like Softy, Groz or Mitch. Or just said whatever to see if it stuck like Clayton or that other stupid annoying guy from the PNW with a national show.

 

[Tical21]

It's funny. Three weeks ago, if you asked who our most solid lineman would be, Gilliam would have been the overwhelming favorite.

I never for a second bought into this "he is a better fit at left tackle" stuff. A mediocre RT doesn't become a solid LT. I would be willing to bet that it has never happened.

 

[dogorama]

It's funny. Three weeks ago, if you asked who our most solid lineman would be, Gilliam would have been the overwhelming favorite.

I never for a second bought into this "he is a better fit at left tackle" stuff. A mediocre RT doesn't become a solid LT. I would be willing to bet that it has never happened.

Here's a replay of the game w/the Minne announcers. At 1:50 left in the first qtr Gilliam sets up deep and the Vikings DE pushes Gilliam nearly into RW causing him to retreat left and get sacked by Griffen. That was the second sack, on the third sack with 11:44 left in the second qtr Gilliam is seen pointing to the Viking's LB and then starts to set up for him and then moves over to let the LB run right by him to sack RW. There was some talk about the RB's missing blocks but I don't see how they could have been in position on this play where they are on the other side of the pass rusher. Not really sure what happened there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4ANE9bIcQc

Edit: Now they are listing the video as private. I just went to youtube and typed in "seahawks vs vikings full game" - scroll down and you will see the preseason game.

 

[dogorama]

It's funny. Three weeks ago, if you asked who our most solid lineman would be, Gilliam would have been the overwhelming favorite.

I never for a second bought into this "he is a better fit at left tackle" stuff. A mediocre RT doesn't become a solid LT. I would be willing to bet that it has never happened.

Here's a replay of the game w/the Minne announcers. At 1:50 left in the first qtr Gilliam sets up deep and the Vikings DE pushes Gilliam nearly into RW causing him to retreat left and get sacked by Griffen. That was the second sack, on the third sack with 11:44 left in the second qtr Gilliam is seen pointing to the Viking's LB and then starts to set up for him and then moves over to let the LB run right by him to sack RW. There was some talk about the RB's missing blocks but I don't see how they could have been in position on this play where they are on the other side of the pass rusher.

At 1:20 left in the 2nd he starts to block his guy and then lets him run right past him causing RW to be directed into other pass rushers for a fourth sack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4ANE9bIcQc

 

[HawKnPeppa]

I listen to a fair bit of sports radio from cities around the nation, and I haven't heard anybody that even comes close to comparing to Millen. The time he puts into watching and analyzing film, with the ability to articulate that over a medium are incredibly rare. Last year when we blew a coverage that cost us the game, with half our team playing cover-2 and half playing cover-3, I don't think any radio station anywhere in the country has an analyst that could have figured that out.

He has chinks in his armor at identifying talent (e.g. Wilson and Locker), and can tend to think a little bit in the old school, but he knows as much about football (X's and O's, team dynamics etc.) as just about anyone on the planet.

This, all day long.

Sent from my SC-02H using Tapatalk

 

[Year of The Hawk]

Even a vet or ex coach can give opinion on the play but unless they actually know the playbook being used in the game then it is just conjecture. Yes an educated guess but still a guess. Plus the people commenting usually have a football background in one position. How much do they really know about other positions and assignments. Remember when Pete said he wanted to give Russell a advanced degree in reading defenses. Do you think an ex running back can tell you accurately what a DB should be doing? There was that one play last season where Kam appeared to get burned for a TD. EVERYONE thought it was him. It was revealed in the offseason that it was not his assignment on that play. Every team and playbook is different. It also seems to get more complex every year. Remember people these peoples jobs are to talk about this stuff. They will never admit they don't know for sure what is happening on every play.

 

[endzorn]

Millen has forgotten more about football than any one of us will ever know. His personnel evaluations around draft time aren't particularly accurate, but he gives his honest opinion about players during camp and the season. I don't always agree with him, but I've learned a lot by listening to him.

Seahawks.net logic...
Positive Seahawks opinion = intelligent analysis
Perception of negative Seahawks opinion = worthless hack

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Millen has forgotten more about football than any one of us will ever know. His personnel evaluations around draft time aren't particularly accurate, but he gives his honest opinion about players during camp and the season. I don't always agree with him, but I've learned a lot by listening to him.

Seahawks.net logic...
Positive Seahawks opinion = intelligent analysis
Perception of negative Seahawks opinion = worthless hack

That's not how I see it, although I can't speak for anyone else.

He was emphatically negative about Carroll to begin with because PC replaced his BFF. His 'analysis' was influenced by an enormous vested interest. It led to his comical review of Russell Wilson -- which was inept in every way -- and his proclamation that he'd eat a microphone if he succeeded in the league.

Of course Carroll has gone on to become the most successful Seahawks Head Coach in franchise history and Wilson the best quarterback.

There's no doubting that, like all former pro-QB's, he knows a lot more than the average man about X's and O's and the day-to-day of being on a team. That doesn't automatically make him a very good judge of talent, character or fit. If he's describing why a formation works or why a TE exploits Seattle's defense, excellent. But is he a good evaluator? Jury's out, big time.

 

[dogorama]

Even a vet or ex coach can give opinion on the play but unless they actually know the playbook being used in the game then it is just conjecture. Yes an educated guess but still a guess. Plus the people commenting usually have a football background in one position. How much do they really know about other positions and assignments. Remember when Pete said he wanted to give Russell a advanced degree in reading defenses. Do you think an ex running back can tell you accurately what a DB should be doing? There was that one play last season where Kam appeared to get burned for a TD. EVERYONE thought it was him. It was revealed in the offseason that it was not his assignment on that play. Every team and playbook is different. It also seems to get more complex every year. Remember people these peoples jobs are to talk about this stuff. They will never admit they don't know for sure what is happening on every play.

No offense YOH but it's only a guess before the play, after it has been run you know exactly what the play was and what specific defense was employed to stop it. In spite of the typical fan's belief that there is an endless amount of creativity in offensive plays there really is only so much you can do. This becomes even more apparent in the NFL where the game reaches its pinnacle of speed and power. Try to get too cute and you will get burned.

As for players knowing other players positions and assignments your example may be valid but not as that applies to quarterbacks. Quarterbacks have to account for every single player on the defense and the offense. The longer they play in the NFL the greater that knowledge becomes. That doesn't mean that they will always be great, but I can assure you they know what is going on. If you need proof of that just go and listen to Brock over at KVI, he, like Millen, can break down plays as they really are, not like the typical fan's "conjecture" as you say.

 

[dogorama]

Millen has forgotten more about football than any one of us will ever know. His personnel evaluations around draft time aren't particularly accurate, but he gives his honest opinion about players during camp and the season. I don't always agree with him, but I've learned a lot by listening to him.

Seahawks.net logic...
Positive Seahawks opinion = intelligent analysis
Perception of negative Seahawks opinion = worthless hack

That's not how I see it, although I can't speak for anyone else.

He was emphatically negative about Carroll to begin with because PC replaced his BFF. His 'analysis' was influenced by an enormous vested interest. It led to his comical review of Russell Wilson -- which was inept in every way -- and his proclamation that he'd eat a microphone if he succeeded in the league.

Of course Carroll has gone on to become the most successful Seahawks Head Coach in franchise history and Wilson the best quarterback.

There's no doubting that, like all former pro-QB's, he knows a lot more than the average man about X's and O's and the day-to-day of being on a team. That doesn't automatically make him a very good judge of talent, character or fit. If he's describing why a formation works or why a TE exploits Seattle's defense, excellent. But is he a good evaluator? Jury's out, big time.

You know what cracks me up about fan message boards? Posts like yours. Where did I, or anyone else say he was a good evaluator of talent? The original post stated that he was concerned about Gilliam because of his deep drops. He didn't say that Gilliam didn't have skills or was a bad player, he simply said that his tendency to set up so deep was worrisome. Go back and watch that game, particularly the clock references I listed and tell me there isn't something there worth at least considering.

It is easy to diss someone because they weren't right about a particular player or coach but the fact is the best NFL talent evaluators in the world aren't really very accurate at it. Look at the draft, the best bets are first rounders but even they don't succeed 70% of the time. You go down the rounds and that percentage drops dramatically with each successive round. So, go ahead and dig Millen for his misses, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Fans are like gamblers, they only tell you about their wins and they are experts at revisionist history.

You know what it boils down to? Extreme homerism where a fan(atic) can't stand to hear anything but positives about their team so they attack the source. It's Rovian politics for the sport's fan.

But please, don't shoot me, I'm just the piano player.