Still a problem for players

[brimsalabim]

I am addressing the initial posted tweet that began this thread discussion. We can’t continue to have division in our locker room. By the way this mornings quote from Tom Brady is “ my season is not going to end on a handoff”. If that throw had failed and a patriot defender had made public issue of it that player would be gone. This is why the patriots stay at the top.

 

[lobohawk]

I do hope folks remember that Bennett is one of the biggest Wilson supporters, especially on the D.

 

[Uncle Si]

I am addressing the initial posted tweet that began this thread discussion. We can’t continue to have division in our locker room. By the way this mornings quote from Tom Brady is “ my season is not going to end on a handoff”. If that throw had failed and a patriot defender had made public issue of it that player would be gone. This is why the patriots stay at the top.

You dont know if his statement is divisive in any way. You have no idea how his teammates took it.

 

[Mindsink]

Actually, an incompletion stops the clock, allows the defense to re-set and prepare for a Lynch run. It's been discussed at nauseam on here.

And somehow that's worse than a game-ending interception?

 

[TwistedHusky]

There are 3 possible explanations for the problem:

1 - This was all Bevell. Pete is just ridiculously loyal to his coordinators and so allowed this problem to fester. Removing him should somewhat solve the problem.

2 - This was actually Pete's call. The reason he was so ridiculously loyal to Bevell in spite of the horrific results on the field is somewhat the guilt in knowing that the blame on Bevell, and subsequent 'hatred', was improperly attributed. Removing him might have solved the problem, but only if the players believe the blame was Bevell's. The accountability culture does get decimated in this instance.

3 - This was a mistake by Wilson. The ball needed to go somewhere else but the staff is protecting him. Least likely option, but certainly at least possible.

In almost all of these circumstances, a culture of accountability has been already eradicated. You don't get to wait a year or two and say "Well now we will start holding people accountable".

So we will see.

I am curious to see if the same stupid offensive philosophies with the splash plays continue. Then we will know it was more Pete and not Bevell. Hopefully it was Bevell because at last we can get to a real offense then, though with Brian at the reins I don't hold up much hope for being much more than mediocre.

This will be an interesting test, what the year looks like at end of season next year.

 

[Mindsink]

The newfound hate for Bennett is palpable here.

And deserved.

His political shenanegans aside, Bennett is a PoS of a human being.

Intentionally diving at a lineman's knees when the game is over and they're running plays from the victory formation earns you that title.

 

[Sign37now]

I don’t care what anyone says. The only ones who keep this false narrative going are pundits like Screamin’ A and others. It was a good play call that got undone by a better reaction from Butler. If Butler is even an inch late on that, we win. The ball was on target, everything looked fine. Butler made a GREAT play. If we’re gonna nitpick at anything, it’s maybe that Kearse didn’t pull off the rub, and Lockette was too lackadaisical going to the ball as if it was a given

WRONG.
Worst play call since Pickett's charge at Gettysburg.

Cute, but not a valid counter

Most of the criticism of that play is rooted in hindsight. Had Lynch fumbled, or had something gone catastrophic, the criticism would be why did Pete not trust his QB and waste a time out

The criticism is rarely, if ever rooted on actual analysis of the play. Butler made an amazing play that 99% of defenders wouldn't have the instincts to make in that situation

This guy must be the 2nd coming of Souix...You're out of your mind! That was the absolute worst call in sports history! Bevell should have been fired in the locker room after that game. He robbed Lynch of the game winning score and probably game MVP. Sickening

 

[MontanaHawk05]

There are 3 possible explanations for the problem:

1 - This was all Bevell. Pete is just ridiculously loyal to his coordinators and so allowed this problem to fester. Removing him should somewhat solve the problem.

2 - This was actually Pete's call. The reason he was so ridiculously loyal to Bevell in spite of the horrific results on the field is somewhat the guilt in knowing that the blame on Bevell, and subsequent 'hatred', was improperly attributed. Removing him might have solved the problem, but only if the players believe the blame was Bevell's. The accountability culture does get decimated in this instance.

3 - This was a mistake by Wilson. The ball needed to go somewhere else but the staff is protecting him. Least likely option, but certainly at least possible.

4 - There was nothing wrong with the bloody play call and the Patriots just made a good flippin' play.

But of course we can't have that. Leaves no scapegoat.

 

[Popeyejones]

Bennett needs to be traded because he is no longer the player in the field he used to be. That’s it plain and simple.

But this year he plain and simply put up his second best season he's ever had on the Hawks, and he did so while battling injury all year.

People who plain and simply say Michael Bennett's play declined this year plain and simply have problems with Michael Bennett that don't have anything to do with his play.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Not really. I mean, he did almost lose the ball to the Panthers 2 weeks before that, but we won that game easily. Lynch is no more likey to turn it over than our QB, who's known for 4th Quarter heroics and had only thrown an interception 7 times all year. Pete had gone with Wilson in several goal line or 4th down situations, and succeeded. If you don't have a QB that's done that for you several times, then you end up like the Jaguars and Vikings did today

Lynch was also not known for converting those situations often that year. If Lynch doesn't get it, it's poor clock management. We see teams lose all the time for overly safe playcalling, Pete went for the jugular

FYI icompletions are as bad as interceptions in that situation.

There were 26 seconds left in the game and it was second down. An incompletion is not nearly as bad as an interception in that situation. The interception ended the game. An incompletion would have just meant another attempt to score. Lets think before we type.

Actually, an incompletion stops the clock, allows the defense to re-set and prepare for a Lynch run. It's been discussed at nauseam on here.

Still does not mean an incompletion is as bad as an interception. An incompletion still allows additional plays and conserves the time out so the third down play can be either a run or pass. I will say it again, think first, type second.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I will say it again, think first, type second.

I agree with your point about incompletions, but...quit trying to get under people's skin with condescending crap like this. You'll find people more receptive to your opinions once you do.

 

[mistaowen]

Passing play was fine, the called play with personnel was not. Low risk pass getting Russell on the move would have been a fine call, Belichick has even said he liked the decision to pass. Throwing it to the middle of the field on a gimmicky pick-play to your special teams gunner should never be a game winning play call.

 

[Mojambo]

Former player soon enough.

 

[Hawkscanner]

I'm going to come at this from a completely different angle here. What Michael Bennett demonstrated for the guys at NFL network is that CLEARLY many guys just flat out CANNOT get over that Super Bowl Loss. And I believe firmly that what they are doing by continually re-hashing it in their minds ... is just flat out not helpful. In fact, it's actually cancerous. Let me explain where I'm coming from.

You see guys I have a bit of a unique perspective here. I'm a mental health therapist by trade. In my private practice, I get people who are dealing with a whole lot of different problems. I see a TON of grief, loss, and trauma come through my door each and every day. I have lots of people who wrestle with grief, with disappointment; many of whom have experienced horrific events in their past that they seriously struggle to get over with. Those traumatic events become stumbling blocks that they find themselves perpetually tripping over -- again, and again, and again -- and they become overwhelming, robbing them of experiencing true joy and happiness in life. My years of counseling has taught me quite a lot about what works ... and what doesn't work ... when it comes to dealing with disappointment in life. I'll give you guys a real life illustration (and you'll pardon me for being fairly general, as I can't provide a ton of details due to privacy laws).

Years ago, I had a client who came to me who was extremely suicidal (dangerously so), struggling with severe depression. I was probably the 10th therapist that they had had over the course of their lifetime. During our first session, almost immediately they wanted to get into all of their abuse history (which was pretty horrific) ... and as the tears began to profusely flow ... it was a real revelation for me, as I figured out in that moment what was happening. In re-telling those stories again and again ... they were re-traumatizing themself again, and again, and again ... which kept fueling their feelings of hopelessness, helplessness, worthlessness, and so on. It flat out wasn't helpful.

So, I stopped them at that point and changed direction 180 degrees. Instead of focusing on all of that "yuck" and all of the things that were wrong ... I started focusing them on all of the things that were right. We started focusing on all of the positives and all of the "blessings" in life that they had. In the process, they realized that the past trauma that they were focusing most of their energy on accounted for less than 1% of their lifetime experiences ... and that they were ignoring the 99% of stuff that was very good in life. You know what ended up happening? Over time, they got better -- significantly so. Those feelings of suicide diminished and they became far more stable, as they learned to focus on the good things in life (rather than the bad).

I've learned over time that Focus is an amazingly powerful thing. Very often times if all we choose to focus on is all of the negative junk in our lives ... it's incredible that that's eventually all we tend to see. We may look at a beautiful painting ... focus on the 1 minor, itty bitty flaw in it ... and over time, that's all our eyes see. We can tend to miss the fact that there is a freaking gorgeous work of art because we're focused on that 1 flaw.

Now, I'm all for processing through traumatic events and helping people get through them. I do it ALL the time. I help them process through those things, help them figure out all of the reasons why they happened, how they chose to respond to those events, evaluate how effective (or ineffective) their responses were, and so on. To put it extremely simply, when things happen, the basic process I go through all the time looks like:

What happened?
Why did it happen?
What did you learn from this?
How can you respond differently in the future? (What are some possible healthy responses?)

BUT, let me tell you ... there comes a point in time when you just flat out need to stop processing through the old junk. If you don't ... if you cannot let go of the past (for whatever reason) ... it can literally drive you insane. I can tell you that's true, as I've had many many clients who remain "stuck" over things that happened 20 years ago ... 30 years ago ... etc. that have basically driven them mad.

Bitterness eventually ensues AND -- they end up dragging themselves ... and can drag OTHERS around them down in the process. That's exactly what I see Michael Bennett, Richard Sherman, and I daresay other veteran Seahawk players doing. That's why I'd say that in the end, if they cannot move on (for whatever reason) ... then I will say that perhaps it's time to go.

If I had Bennett, Sherman, and some of those vets (who are still smarting) here today, that's what I'd tell them. I'd probably point them to one of my favorite therapists -- Rafiki (who illustrates this point beautifully here) ...

[youtube]dZfGTL2PY3E[/youtube]

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Good stuff Hawkscanner. Still being scarred by that play is a lack of championship mentality.

 

[Sun Tzu]

I don’t care what anyone says. The only ones who keep this false narrative going are pundits like Screamin’ A and others. It was a good play call that got undone by a better reaction from Butler. If Butler is even an inch late on that, we win. The ball was on target, everything looked fine. Butler made a GREAT play. If we’re gonna nitpick at anything, it’s maybe that Kearse didn’t pull off the rub, and Lockette was too lackadaisical going to the ball as if it was a given

WRONG.
Worst play call since Pickett's charge at Gettysburg.

Cute, but not a valid counter

Most of the criticism of that play is rooted in hindsight. Had Lynch fumbled, or had something gone catastrophic, the criticism would be why did Pete not trust his QB and waste a time out

The criticism is rarely, if ever rooted on actual analysis of the play. Butler made an amazing play that 99% of defenders wouldn't have the instincts to make in that situation

This guy must be the 2nd coming of Souix...You're out of your mind! That was the absolute worst call in sports history! Bevell should have been fired in the locker room after that game. He robbed Lynch of the game winning score and probably game MVP. Sickening

Not even close to the worst call in sports history. First, a pass, in my opinion and the opinion of almost every coach I have discussed this with, was a better option than a run. In the event of an incompletion, passing left more options for third and fourth down by conserving the time out (a failed run would have forced a time-out and reduced the playbook even further for third and fourth down). The Pats also had a heavy package in and Lynch was 1 of 5 from the 1 yard line on the season. In short, an incomplete pass is better than failing to punch it in with the run since it leaves more uncertainty for the defense to deal with on 3rd down, and given the teams season stats, a pass had a higher probability of success. Second, the overall play design when broken down was solid. The failure was in personnel, match-ups, and execution. It is difficult for me to blame DB for the personnel; the team was in hurry-up mode and we have no way of knowing which players were versed in the teams 2 min offense. There had also been no opportunity for substitution. Therefore, I place a small amount of blame on DB for the specific pass play called (although, it would have been fine if players had executed) and most of the blame on RW for a poorly thrown ball into a tight window.

 

[Uncle Si]

I don’t care what anyone says. The only ones who keep this false narrative going are pundits like Screamin’ A and others. It was a good play call that got undone by a better reaction from Butler. If Butler is even an inch late on that, we win. The ball was on target, everything looked fine. Butler made a GREAT play. If we’re gonna nitpick at anything, it’s maybe that Kearse didn’t pull off the rub, and Lockette was too lackadaisical going to the ball as if it was a given

WRONG.
Worst play call since Pickett's charge at Gettysburg.

Cute, but not a valid counter

Most of the criticism of that play is rooted in hindsight. Had Lynch fumbled, or had something gone catastrophic, the criticism would be why did Pete not trust his QB and waste a time out

The criticism is rarely, if ever rooted on actual analysis of the play. Butler made an amazing play that 99% of defenders wouldn't have the instincts to make in that situation

This guy must be the 2nd coming of Souix...You're out of your mind! That was the absolute worst call in sports history! Bevell should have been fired in the locker room after that game. He robbed Lynch of the game winning score and probably game MVP. Sickening

Makes several hyperbolic statements whilst accusing someone of being representative of irrationality.

yup.. still the internet.

 

[Seymour]

Another off season discussing "the play". ukeface:

How depressing..... ukeface:

Enjoy. ukeface:

 

[Hawkscanner]

Another off season discussing "the play". ukeface:

How depressing..... ukeface:

Enjoy. ukeface:

Yep. As I discussed at length in my response above ... this is just flat out not helpful anymore. In fact, this continual scab-picking is actual far more harmful (not helpful) at this point.

 

[Seymour]

Another off season discussing "the play". ukeface:

How depressing..... ukeface:

Enjoy. ukeface:

Yep. As I discussed at length in my response above ... this is just flat out not helpful anymore. In fact, this continual scab-picking is actual far more harmful (not helpful) at this point.

Exactly.
I have a saying I try to remember for things like this.

You live in the problem, and the problem increases.
You live in the solution, and the solution increases.