The elephant in the room (Graham)

[mrt144]

The elephant in the room last night was Rawls. The Lions showed no respect to him and brought their outside linebackers to squeeze Wilson all night. This doesn't happen if beast mode plays. We desperately need a successor.

We're getting a glimpse of the future when a mortal back plays behind this line.

Thus is Cable's status as genius finally laid to rest.

Again how many times do we need to have this conversation. The reason we have the defense we do with 9 of the starting 11 on SECOND contracts and a QB making 20 plus mil a year is cause we are going bargain shopping on oline.

Cable has a converted TE at RT a converted D lineman at RG and C, a converted RT at RG and okung.....

IT will get better. hopefully. But Cables "lack of" coaching is not the reason he hasn't put more lipstick on this pig yet.

Cable doesn't "have" those guys, he CHOSE those guys.

Cable isn't trying to convert players because that's what he's being given. Cable is ASKING for these guys and the results are not good.

In all likelihood Cable is a below-average OL coach.

Why is our front office being led around on a leash by an OL coach?

Cable probably isn't a 'good' OL coach but I am pretty sure he can't say no to a challenge in an environment where finding diamonds is highly regarded.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Why is our front office being led around on a leash by an OL coach?

Cable probably isn't a 'good' OL coach but I am pretty sure he can't say no to a challenge in an environment where finding diamonds is highly regarded.

Don't kid yourself, this is Pete's team. He has final say on EVERY draft pick and personnel decision. Period, end of story.

If you haven't noticed, Pete and John have taken the approach of using the large majority of our cap space on the defense and skill positions..............and using Cable to develop the O-line cheaply.

So there's your choice. Have a top 5 defense and run game but sub par O-line.........or go the more traditional route of good to very good D and O line, but mediocre DB's, LB's and WR's.

You can't have it all, so if people want to criticize Cable and/or Bevell, then they have to criticize John and Pete, because they're the architects of what we're doing with the cap.

 

[ctrcat]

You know those rare trades where both teams end up better? This might be the even rarer version where both teams end up worse.

As a Panther fan who tries to remain objective I thought that exact thing at the time. Graham was a beast in the dome and Unger provided both tangible and intangible skills to the Hawks line-as stated here the last complete game the Hawks played was with Unger and without Lotulelei, which had to account if even a fraction for RW being 8-8 on 3rd down in that playoff game.

I still think the #31 player on the top 100 for the #31 pick in the draft was getting a known commodity for an unknown which clearly favored the Hawks. But the Saints were desperate and the Hawks took the bait. He can't block and seems like fitting a square peg in a round hole to me. Not to mention losing what could be a great player on a rookie deal for 4 or 5 years. Would the Panthers trade #25 pick Shaq Thompson right now on his rookie deal for #25 overall Joe Thomas who would of course provide an upgrade at an important position but at over five times the price? No imo.

 

[ctrcat]

I just don't understand how other teams can complete passes to the TE against our defense (which is one of the best in the league) in under 2 seconds while we struggle getting the ball in the seams to the biggest and fastest TE in the league.

That has to be on Russ. If teams are stacking the box, they can't account for Graham that quickly. If they're blitzing, there's a hole in the zone. SOMEONE is open, and open quickly.

Other than Gronk, who catches balls against EVERYONE, I don't remember very many TE's that have had success against our D.........including Graham when he played against us, we'd always shut his ass down.

Gronk and Gates are the only two I can think of that have done well against us the past 3-4 years.

Olsen had two game changing drops in 2013, big 3rd downs if I remember correctly, that had nothing to do with coverage, in fact one was busted coverage and he tried to run before catching. Just a bad day at the office.

 

[ringless]

Jimmy Graham hasn't really had that big of a drop off considering where he is playing compared to last year.
Averages per game

Catches
2014 5.31
2015 4.5

Yards:
2014: 55.60
2014 43.50

TD's
2014: 0.625
2015: 0.500

I think a bigger deal is being made out of this then it really is considering this is more of a run focused offense.

 

[mrt144]

Why is our front office being led around on a leash by an OL coach?

Cable probably isn't a 'good' OL coach but I am pretty sure he can't say no to a challenge in an environment where finding diamonds is highly regarded.

Don't kid yourself, this is Pete's team. He has final say on EVERY draft pick and personnel decision. Period, end of story.

If you haven't noticed, Pete and John have taken the approach of using the large majority of our cap space on the defense and skill positions..............and using Cable to develop the O-line cheaply.

So there's your choice. Have a top 5 defense and run game but sub par O-line.........or go the more traditional route of good to very good D and O line, but mediocre DB's, LB's and WR's.

You can't have it all, so if people want to criticize Cable and/or Bevell, then they have to criticize John and Pete, because they're the architects of what we're doing with the cap.

Exactly. I can't believe all the people who are putting the problem with the OL squarely and singularly on the OL coach as if he's the mastermind of team build and design and philosophy. I'm sure if we had the cap space we'd at least attempt to rectify this in FA instead of drawing from the draft well again and again.

I've seen enough managerial changes in my life to understand that sometimes putting go getters in bleak situations to 'fix' things doesn't clear up the fundamental issues of why a situation is bleak. That and continuity matters.

 

[justafan]

Why is our front office being led around on a leash by an OL coach?

Cable probably isn't a 'good' OL coach but I am pretty sure he can't say no to a challenge in an environment where finding diamonds is highly regarded.

Don't kid yourself, this is Pete's team. He has final say on EVERY draft pick and personnel decision. Period, end of story.

If you haven't noticed, Pete and John have taken the approach of using the large majority of our cap space on the defense and skill positions..............and using Cable to develop the O-line cheaply.

So there's your choice. Have a top 5 defense and run game but sub par O-line.........or go the more traditional route of good to very good D and O line, but mediocre DB's, LB's and WR's.

You can't have it all, so if people want to criticize Cable and/or Bevell, then they have to criticize John and Pete, because they're the architects of what we're doing with the cap.

You are absolutely right,in the end it is Pete and JS responsibility.But they are spending picks in the draft with Cables input.
Its frustrating to watch them fail or get beat out by players with little or no college experience.That couldnt have been JS vision when he spent good picks on the OL.

He claims to want T Carp and G Moffitt then Carp becomes a guard and Sweezy beats out Moffitt.Draft Britt and he fails at T and they start a college TE.
They draft Glow and Poole and cant get them ready to play and get beat out by a college DL and TE.
We won with a backup veteran center last year but somehow end up with Nowak starting

Its just not one thing its a trend that has no end in sight.This is the worst Oline I can remember for the Hawks.

 

[hawknation2015]

They should be using him at Split End . . . Baldwin or Kearse at flanker . . . Lockett or Baldwin in the slot . . . Tukuafu at TE or FB.

Using him as an in-line TE, just because he has the letters 'T' and 'E' next to his name, is pure idiocy in this offensive scheme. Graham is a natural fit at Split End in this scheme. He would also be an asset as a blocker at Split End, lining up against smaller DBs, than he is currently against defensive linemen.

 

[mrt144]

They should be using him at Split End . . . Baldwin or Kearse at flanker . . . Lockett or Baldwin in the slot . . . Tukuafu at TE or FB.

Using him as an in-line TE, just because he has the letters 'T' and 'E' next to his name, is pure idiocy in this offensive scheme. Graham is a natural fit at Split End in this scheme. He would also be an asset as a blocker at Split End, lining up against smaller DBs, than he is currently against defensive linemen.

It really is. Are the Hawks afraid of negotiating with him later and having an arbitrator decide he's a WR?

 

[hawknation2015]

They should be using him at Split End . . . Baldwin or Kearse at flanker . . . Lockett or Baldwin in the slot . . . Tukuafu at TE or FB.

Using him as an in-line TE, just because he has the letters 'T' and 'E' next to his name, is pure idiocy in this offensive scheme. Graham is a natural fit at Split End in this scheme. He would also be an asset as a blocker at Split End, lining up against smaller DBs, than he is currently against defensive linemen.

It really is. Are the Hawks afraid of negotiating with him later and having an arbitrator decide he's a WR?

I don't think that plays a role in their thought process. He still has three years left on his deal, and anyway, Carroll has never used the franchise tag before.

Another benefit to lining Graham up outside is that he would be immediately available for quick hitters, which assists the offensive line.

 

[CodeWarrior]

Blaming Cable for all that is wrong with the OL is just silly. He works with the cap dollars allocated for the position, which are minimal at best, outside of LT. If given the choice I'm sure Cable would have hung on to both Carp and Giacomini. PC/JS didn't allow for it. "Missing" on Britt definitely hurts, though.

 

[hawknation2015]

Blaming Cable for all that is wrong with the OL is just silly. He works with the cap dollars allocated for the position, which are minimal at best, outside of LT.

They are 30th in the league is offensive line spending, despite Okung's massive contract and the fact that they carrying 10 offensive linemen on the roster, plus two more on the practice squad. I'm excited about the future of the offensive line as they gain more experience.

But using Graham as an in-line blocker makes no sense. I really can't believe Cable is putting up with that. Graham needs to be outside at Split End.

 

[justafan]

Nothing wrong with asking a player his size to step in and chip a LB or help pick up a blitz,unless you already know he didnt have the heart for being physical or willing to put out the effort to try.

We all knew he was soft before the trade but we forgot that afterwards.

 

[hawknation2015]

Nothing wrong with asking a player his size to step in and chip a LB or help pick up a blitz,unless you already know he didnt have the heart for being physical or willing to put out the effort to try.

We all knew he was soft before the trade but we forgot that afterwards.

I think most people on this board recognized the fact that Graham is not an asset as an in-line blocker and that lining him up there would lead to more pressures, would sap Graham's energy and possibly get him hurt, would neutralize his incredible athleticism, and would make it more difficult for Russell to get him the ball. He should be at Split End, period.

 

[justafan]

Nothing wrong with asking a player his size to step in and chip a LB or help pick up a blitz,unless you already know he didnt have the heart for being physical or willing to put out the effort to try.

We all knew he was soft before the trade but we forgot that afterwards.

I think most people on this board recognized the fact that Graham is not an asset as an in-line blocker and that lining him up there would lead to more pressures, would sap Graham's energy and possibly get him hurt, would neutralize his incredible athleticism, and would make it more difficult for Russell to get him the ball. He should be at Split End, period.

He will get his catches playing WR I am sure but our offense requires players to block at times.To watch him half ass a block that most WRs could make is frustrating.I guess I just dont understand that mentality from a guy that size.He has no heart or team ethics to do the dirty work.I believe thats why the Saints dumped him.

I doubt he lasts 3 years here.

 

[hawk45]

He will get his catches playing WR I am sure but our offense requires players to block at times.To watch him half ass a block that most WRs could make is frustrating.I guess I just dont understand that mentality from a guy that size.He has no heart or team ethics to do the dirty work.I believe thats why the Saints dumped him.

I doubt he lasts 3 years here.

Watching him attempt a block is frustrating. Although the fact that he brings so much a receiver, and the fact that it was so widely known his blocking was questionable (or at least not used) in NO, makes it difficult for me to be too frustrated at Graham himself.

If the FO brought him here to block, most of my frustration is directed at them.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

You are absolutely right,in the end it is Pete and JS responsibility.But they are spending picks in the draft with Cables input.
Its frustrating to watch them fail or get beat out by players with little or no college experience.That couldnt have been JS vision when he spent good picks on the OL.

He claims to want T Carp and G Moffitt then Carp becomes a guard and Sweezy beats out Moffitt.Draft Britt and he fails at T and they start a college TE.
They draft Glow and Poole and cant get them ready to play and get beat out by a college DL and TE.
We won with a backup veteran center last year but somehow end up with Nowak starting

Its just not one thing its a trend that has no end in sight.This is the worst Oline I can remember for the Hawks.

You act like finding good O-lineman deep in the draft is just a problem we have.

Look around the league, you can count on one hand how many teams have what you'd consider good to very good O-lines, and every one of them dedicated significant draft and cap space to that line. How many first rounders are on the Cowboy's line? 3? 4?

The rest of the league is plagued by terrible O-line play.

I'm not excusing Cable, but I'm also not placing 100% of the blame at his feet. Dude's a great O-line coach, one of the best in the league for a long time. He's making chicken salad out of the chicken crap being drafted and converted because of our cap constraints.

 

[marko358]

You act like finding good O-lineman deep in the draft is just a problem we have.

Look around the league, you can count on one hand how many teams have what you'd consider good to very good O-lines, and every one of them dedicated significant draft and cap space to that line. How many first rounders are on the Cowboy's line? 3? 4?

The rest of the league is plagued by terrible O-line play.

I'm not excusing Cable, but I'm also not placing 100% of the blame at his feet. Dude's a great O-line coach, one of the best in the league for a long time. He's making chicken salad out of the chicken crap being drafted and converted because of our cap constraints.

Yeah but we're not just below average. We likely have one of the worst 3 O-Lines in the league right now. When I watch other teams with bad lines, they still look to play better than ours.

 

[seahawk12thman]

Graham is soft. I have been patient watching him but now it is painfully obvious he is more a spectator than watcher as Trent Dilfer suggests. Ray Lewis called him a Queen. I said that Rawls was the biggest elephant but Graham doesn't fit either. Time to cut bait with him or stop putting him at tight end. He is lost and there is no continuity.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

You act like finding good O-lineman deep in the draft is just a problem we have.

Look around the league, you can count on one hand how many teams have what you'd consider good to very good O-lines, and every one of them dedicated significant draft and cap space to that line. How many first rounders are on the Cowboy's line? 3? 4?

The rest of the league is plagued by terrible O-line play.

I'm not excusing Cable, but I'm also not placing 100% of the blame at his feet. Dude's a great O-line coach, one of the best in the league for a long time. He's making chicken salad out of the chicken crap being drafted and converted because of our cap constraints.

Yeah but we're not just below average. We likely have one of the worst 3 O-Lines in the league right now. When I watch other teams with bad lines, they still look to play better than ours.

I agree, so the choice in the off season was to keep Unger and try to resign Carp and find a RT and/or guard in free agency.

But that means no Graham and far less money to hand out to all the disgruntled FA's on our own team crying about their salary.

Again, if you're mad at Cable, you have to be mad at Pete and John.............and please tell me where you'd cut cap space to commit 15-20M to a good O-line, either by keeping our players or free agency.