The OL Plan

[Frozenropers]

The O-line is a conundrum. This year we seemed to make bad choices on the lower-mid cost vets that we brought in (Sowell and Webb). If they would have played better or been decent our O-line likely wouldn't have had nearly as many issues. When you end up the season starting essentially two rookies, a second year player first year starter at LG and a third year player at C. There is going to be issues.

Gilliam unfortunately to me has been a large disappointment. I wanted to see him take a step forward this season and instead I think he went backwards. He's too finesse for RT and didn't step up and take the LT position that his athleticism suggests he should be able to handle.

My plan for next season would be to find a brawler for LG. I want some mean nasty there with size that can open holes in the running game. I like Glowinski, but see him as a better fit at RG. Saw him get pushed back by the NT too many times. He seems to be built more like a Chris Gray type.

Slide Ifedi over to RT if the Team thinks he fits there long term. He has the explosion and size. Has a good nasty streak and if he can pass block on the outside there, he'd appear to be a good fit as a RT.

Keep Britt at C.

Fant was crazy raw coming into the season and playing this year. He did amazingly well given his lack of experience as he somewhat survived on athleticism and a mean streak alone. Watching him he doesn't seem to given up on plays and will continue to drive the defender back or take clean extra shots at the DE if he gets around the edge, but then overruns the QB when Russell slides over. Fant looks like a LT. Appears to have the athleticism, is building the strength for LT and just needs experience.

Draft for some more depth.

That's what I'd do if I had my druthers.

 

[Jville]

Western Kentucky offensive lineman Forrest Lamp talks about his relationship with George Fant and the Seahawks tackles' transition from basketball to football.

Western Kentucky Offensive Lineman Forrest Lamp: George Fant "He's a Great Athlete"

Video >>> [urltargetblank]http://www.seahawks.com/video/2017/03/03/western-kentucky-offensive-lineman-forrest-lamp-george-fant-hes-great-athlete[/urltargetblank]

Audio >>> [urltargetblank]http://prod.video.seahawks.clubs.nfl.com/SEA/videos/dct/video_audio/2017/03-March/170302-Lamp-on-Fant-32k.mp3[/urltargetblank]

 

[c_hawkbob]

Lamp will wind up moving inside. I'd rather we rafted a truer tackle like Garett Bolles or Ramczyk (my favorite prospect as he could play any position on the line, and utility is valuable) or Cam Robinson but living here in western Kentucky Lamp is a bit of a home boy and I gotta root for him so; Run Forrest run!

A lot of who we draft will ride on what we do in FA. Pete admitted that we missed Evans' experience last year and John copped to it being a mistake to let him go over no wanting to guarantee the paltry million plus it woulda took to keep him. John also allude to "learning from your mistakes" moving forward and I truly believe we got us a FA tackle in our sights so that will alter the draft dynamic a bit.

I like Fant a lot, but even give his experience of last year (no small consideration) I'd like to see him behind a veteran for a year before being a full time starter. Although listening to Pete's combine presser I don't think he agrees with me ...

 

[Jimjones0384]

The plan seems clear to me.....

Ha. Listening to Pete talk today and with Schneider's comments yesterday, I think it's pretty clear that they are banking on the 1st year guys making a big leap in year 2. If I had to guess, Gilliam is the guy most likely to get replaced by a free agent signee or draft pick. Fant seemed to receive a lot more praise from both than Gilliam did.

I think a veteran addition will be more along the lines of Kahlil, or Joeckel as opposed to a first week guy who's going to get crazy money.

Gilliam only gave up 1 sack to fants 5. Fant had a lot more pressures as well. But, pff(I know they suck) has Garry Gilliam as "honorable mention" for worst player at his position. Truth be told, neither one is ready. I don't think Gilliam will ever be. He is close to his ceiling, where fant isn't even close. That's part of the reason I want a top tier veteran LT is because I think fant is the real deal. I think with a year or two behind someone good to learn, we may have our LT for the future. He just needs more time. I think he did damn good for the situation he was put in.

 

[Seafan]

Rees may end up replacing Gilliam at RT. I expect a veteran OL to be signed but not someone one who will necessarily be a starter but competition and depth. I doubt the Hawks draft a OL. There may be a UDFA on their radar for camp.

 

[c_hawkbob]

Rees may end up replacing Gilliam at RT. I expect a veteran OL to be signed but not someone one who will necessarily be a starter but competition and depth. I doubt the Hawks draft a OL. There may be a UDFA on their radar for camp.

We'll draft at least two.

 

[brimsalabim]

Still can't admit he made a mistake. Last season our offensive line produced injuries for everyone who had to play behind it. We can't afford another season like that one. For Russ sake bring in some tackles that actually know how to play tackle and are actually capable of playing tackle in the NFL! Let the staff play with their projects in practice while they learn.

 

[AgentDib]

We'll draft at least two.

We'll definitely bring in a lot more than two counting UDFAs but I too am a bit skeptical that we will draft several OL this year.

We've drafted three in each of the previous two years and it sounds like they see potential in some of those youngsters that needs supplemented with veteran leadership. Moreover, this draft appears to be loaded with talent at the skill positions but sparse when it comes to offensive linemen. With all the other needs we have I don't really see them reaching too far in any one area.

 

[c_hawkbob]

Over/under OL drarfted: 1.5

Over/under OL draft + UDFA: 3.5

I go over on both.

 

[RiverDog]

I'd be more encouraged by Schneider's statements if the entire PC/JS/Cable era hasn't been an utter and complete failure when it comes to evaluating O-lineman and acquiring FA lineman.

So unless they drastically change how they're evaluating O-lineman, doesn't give me much hope that they'll all of a sudden do the right thing this year.

Or change their "let's spend all our money on the rest of the team and hope Cable can turn basketball players and defensive lineman into starting O-lineman" philosophy.

I'll take either option.

I agree. Cable lost me when he thought James Carpenter had what it takes to be an offensive tackle in the NFL. Then he lost me when he thought Britt had it takes to be an offensive tackle, then Webb...

He's fortunate that he has multiple positions to shuffle players into when his judgements don't work out.

But there's always hope. Someday maybe he can coach up a player that he's brought in to the point where we think they're worth a 2nd contract. So far, that hasn't happened since he's been with us.

 

[Hyak]

I think a huge problem that's faced a lot of teams is the state of OL play in college and how it translates to the pro game in a similar way to the QB position. Some players come to the pros never having been in a 3 point stance.

I read something today about the combine results so far with relation to SPARQ and explosion and something like 3 OL scored in the desired percentiles whereas 30 + DL did.

The bust rate on OL in round 1 also seems to be getting higher and higher and I don't think it's coincidental.

 

[RiverDog]

I think a huge problem that's faced a lot of teams is the state of OL play in college and how it translates to the pro game in a similar way to the QB position. Some players come to the pros never having been in a 3 point stance.

I read something today about the combine results so far with relation to SPARQ and explosion and something like 3 OL scored in the desired percentiles whereas 30 + DL did.

The bust rate on OL in round 1 also seems to be getting higher and higher and I don't think it's coincidental.

Yea, that's been a hot topic around the league. With so much of college football running spread offenses, they aren't developing the skills needed for an OT in the NFL.

There's also been talk about a cultural shift in the thinking of today's younger athletes. No one wants to play on the OL, they're more inclined to play a position like defensive end so they can do a sack dance in front of 70,000 people and a national TV audience when they're successful, so that's the position of choice for an athlete with the physical characteristics required by linemen in general.

John Schneider talked about this very thing a few days ago:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ook-at-us/

 

[Popeyejones]

The stories going around right now is this might be the worst year in decades for O-lIneman coming out.

FA has some really nice pieces for interior lineman, but tackles are pretty bare, and because of that coupled with this draft class, those guys (I have to guess) are gonna get really overpaid.

It's not a good year to have line problems, particularly at the tackle position.

If I'm the Hawks I think I'm trying to target the one or two tackles in the draft I can live with and being really aggressive in moving around to make sure I get them (where those two tradeable 3rd round comp picks come in REALLY handy).

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Another thing people don't know is we've drafted 14 O-lineman during the PC/JS era, that's TIED for the most in the NFL in that time span.

Yet not one has made it to a 2nd contract.

That's some pretty damning shizzle right there, and tells me we should probably address our O-line needs in FA, and not the draft. Cause for all the great drafting these two have done, they have no idea what they're doing when it comes to O-lineman. None.

 

[Jville]

Another thing people don't know is we've drafted 14 O-lineman during the PC/JS era, that's TIED for the most in the NFL in that time span.

Yet not one has made it to a 2nd contract.

That's some pretty damning shizzle right there, and tells me we should probably address our O-line needs in FA, and not the draft. Cause for all the great drafting these two have done, they have no idea what they're doing when it comes to O-lineman. None.

:177692: With all due respect ..... of the 14 offensive linemen drafted during the Carroll era, only 4 had completed their first contract as of 2016. James Carpenter and JR Sweezy landed big multi-year 2nd contracts. And, Russell Okung pocketed $8 mil last year. That's three out of four eligible for a second contract.

Most view .750 as a pretty good batting average.

 

[hawkfan68]

Another thing people don't know is we've drafted 14 O-lineman during the PC/JS era, that's TIED for the most in the NFL in that time span.

Yet not one has made it to a 2nd contract.

That's some pretty damning shizzle right there, and tells me we should probably address our O-line needs in FA, and not the draft. Cause for all the great drafting these two have done, they have no idea what they're doing when it comes to O-lineman. None.

:177692: With all due respect ..... of the 14 offensive linemen drafted during the Carroll era, only 4 had completed their first contract as of 2016. James Carpenter and JR Sweezy landed big multi-year 2nd contracts. And, Russell Okung pocketed $8 mil last year. That's three out of four eligible for a second contract.

Most view .750 as a pretty good batting average.

I believe you missed Sgt.'s point. He means 2nd contract to stick with the Seahawks. Yes, those guys got 2nd contracts but with other teams so that really didn't help the Seahawks in any fashion. If building up players to let them walk is the strategy then what's the point? There will never be any continuity along the line. In hindsight, they should have re-signed Okung, Carp, and Sweezy. The line would have been much more solid. Even having just 2 of the 3 would have been better.

 

[Largent80]

Sweezy signed that big contract and didn't play a single snap for TB last year. These other 2 rode the coattails of a SB win, Clady left Denver so they needed to replace him. Carpenter hasn't been otherworldly since leaving here.

 

[Jville]

Another thing people don't know is we've drafted 14 O-lineman during the PC/JS era, that's TIED for the most in the NFL in that time span.

Yet not one has made it to a 2nd contract.

That's some pretty damning shizzle right there, and tells me we should probably address our O-line needs in FA, and not the draft. Cause for all the great drafting these two have done, they have no idea what they're doing when it comes to O-lineman. None.

:177692: With all due respect ..... of the 14 offensive linemen drafted during the Carroll era, only 4 had completed their first contract as of 2016. James Carpenter and JR Sweezy landed big multi-year 2nd contracts. And, Russell Okung pocketed $8 mil last year. That's three out of four eligible for a second contract.

Most view .750 as a pretty good batting average.

I believe you missed Sgt.'s point. He's means 2nd contract to stick with the Seahawks. Yes, those guys got 2nd contracts but with other teams so that really didn't help the Seahawks in any fashion. If building up players to let them walk is the strategy then what's the point? There will never be any continuity along the line. In hindsight, they should have re-signed Okung, Carp, and Sweezy. The line would have been much more solid. Even having just 2 of the 3 would have been better.

:177692: Why be dismissive of my remarks? I added meaningful context and perspective. All three of those second contracts were significant and count as successful player development outcomes. A couple of them generated supplemental draft picks. Schneider and Carroll and Cable had valid rationale for moving on. IMO .... the productivity of the offensive line bottomed out last year. Results this year will be much better. Schneider and Carroll and Cable have a united plan.

 

[hawkfan68]

Another thing people don't know is we've drafted 14 O-lineman during the PC/JS era, that's TIED for the most in the NFL in that time span.

Yet not one has made it to a 2nd contract.

That's some pretty damning shizzle right there, and tells me we should probably address our O-line needs in FA, and not the draft. Cause for all the great drafting these two have done, they have no idea what they're doing when it comes to O-lineman. None.

:177692: With all due respect ..... of the 14 offensive linemen drafted during the Carroll era, only 4 had completed their first contract as of 2016. James Carpenter and JR Sweezy landed big multi-year 2nd contracts. And, Russell Okung pocketed $8 mil last year. That's three out of four eligible for a second contract.

Most view .750 as a pretty good batting average.

I believe you missed Sgt.'s point. He's means 2nd contract to stick with the Seahawks. Yes, those guys got 2nd contracts but with other teams so that really didn't help the Seahawks in any fashion. If building up players to let them walk is the strategy then what's the point? There will never be any continuity along the line. In hindsight, they should have re-signed Okung, Carp, and Sweezy. The line would have been much more solid. Even having just 2 of the 3 would have been better.

:177692: Why be dismissive of my remarks? I added meaningful context and perspective. All three of those second contracts were significant and count as successful player development outcomes. A couple of them generated supplemental draft picks. Schneider and Carroll and Cable had valid rationale for moving on. IMO .... the productivity of the offensive line bottomed out last year. Results this year will be much better. Schneider and Carroll and Cable have a united plan.

My intent was not to dismiss your remarks. Yes your post did add to the discussion in a meaningful way. I merely pointed out that the OL players mentioned (Okung, Sweezy, and Carp) got their 2nd contract with other teams. The Seahawks didn't benefit by letting them walk. Yes they saved some money but the production definitely decreased without them.

 

[LolaRox]

I hope they aggressively go after a starter level O-lineman in FA (not Sowell or Webb level :? )

1. The line is too young and inexperienced and adding another rookie doesn't improve that.

2. I see no evidence that anyone at VMAC know how to identify, evaluate, develop or coach o-linemen. They have already wasted a lot of picks on the offensive line, over the years, and it still remains the weakest group of the team. Also, spending so much draft capital on the line has weakened the depth at every other position.