They're Getting Pressure on the QB

[Fade]

I would love for someone in the media to ask Pete if he is cool with not surrendering the big play, but the trade off is the defense will not consistently get off the field on 3rd down. Which then has the ripple effect of his defense having to be on the field for 70-80 plays a game over the course of an entire season.

I need to know what Pete thinks about this. How does he expect this unit to hold up for 16 games, and a deep playoff run, playing that many plays on defense?

It's obviously great to not give up big plays, but if you have to sacrifice being this bad on 3rd down to achieve it. I don't think it really matters at that point.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

The one's that drive me crazy are when the corners play way back on a 3rd down. Get up on a guy.
Well, and guys being WIDE OPEN, over and over again. Adam Thielan…...you may wanna cover that guy :mrgreen:

 

[Fade]

Another thought I had - soft zone is often what you see when a defensive coordinator doesn't trust his safeties. It could be a play-it-safe measure Pete and Ken are employing while they get Jamal Adams, and now Ryan Neal, up to speed schematically (and the rest of the safety crew is fairly green themselves, with Quinton Dunbar's newness adding to the communication issues).

Perhaps, as the season wears on, we'll start seeing tighter coverage.

Pete is over-correcting from the first 3 games. They had several busted coverage's that went for TDs. So now they are being extra careful to make sure they don't surrender the big play.

Mission accomplished, but they sacrificed their 3rd down defense in the process.

 

[AubHawk71]

Another thought I had - soft zone is often what you see when a defensive coordinator doesn't trust his safeties. It could be a play-it-safe measure Pete and Ken are employing while they get Jamal Adams, and now Ryan Neal, up to speed schematically (and the rest of the safety crew is fairly green themselves, with Quinton Dunbar's newness adding to the communication issues).

Perhaps, as the season wears on, we'll start seeing tighter coverage.

Pete is over-correcting from the first 3 games. They had several busted coverage's that went for TDs. So now they are being extra careful to make sure they don't surrender the big play.

Mission accomplished, but they sacrificed their 3rd down defense in the process.

Correct sir.

I think it would be more effective to look at the team ahead AS WELL AS what has been the weak spots in previous games. You're not going to get big chunk passing plays from Cousins and Thielen and...?, esp so far this year.

Clearly Cook is your man, and Thielen is going to get you mid-size chunks.

It's not like they have Russ and DK, or (wherefore art thou?) Lockett to put together some big time highlight reel. And Moore can get some big yards too.

 

[Seahwkgal]

Norton was a great LB coach. He sucks as DC.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Didn't the LOB benefit from somewhat different rules in the first year or two? It's much harder to have a hard-hitting defense that removes WR's desire to cross the middle when most of those hits will get flagged for hit on a "defenseless receiver" even when the DB doesn't lead with the helmet.

I'd be curious to see how enforcing certain rules that open up the passing game has corresponded with our increase in passing yards. Obviously, a better pass rush makes all throws harder and passing yards drop. But the LOB made it easier for the Pass Russ to get home, too.

 

[QuahHawk]

There is a method to the madness, making teams dink and dunk down the field forces QBs to make more throws and thus more opportunities for mistakes. Against the greats like Brees, Brady and Rodgers this may not result in turnovers but players like Cousins, Dak, and Fitzgerald it has yielded results.

We are
#2 INT's in the League
#2 Turnover Margin in the NFL

 

[TwistedHusky]

Exactly the problem.

Against the better QBs, the ones you will face in the playoffs, it does not work.

And because it keeps the defense on the field, it keeps your offense off it.

And it tires your defense.

But hey, it beats the middling teams that you won't likely face in the playoffs.

That way when you reach the playoffs, nobody will be used to playing a different way.

It is better to lose an extra game in the regular season, playing a way that will be more successful in the playoffs, than to master a strategy that will fail miserably in the playoffs. The goal is not the best regular season record. That just makes us the NFL version of the Milwaukie Bucks.

 

[Own The West]

One thing that's been missing from our pass rush is penetration on the inside. I'm not sure if that's because our IDL have been told to stay home, but we need to get QBs to move off their spot to get sacks. Bullard and Snacks are bigger, bull rush kind of guys. Perhaps that is why we've picked them up; Ford and Reed have been unable to consistently push the pile at their high snap counts.

 

[Jerhawk]

One thing that's been missing from our pass rush is penetration on the inside. I'm not sure if that's because our IDL have been told to stay home, but we need to get QBs to move off their spot to get sacks. Bullard and Snacks are bigger, bull rush kind of guys. Perhaps that is why we've picked them up; Ford and Reed have been unable to consistently push the pile at their high snap counts.

:ditto: Agreed. Great post.

Hopefully Snacks can generate some onside pressure

 

[Appyhawk]

Reed did a great job vs the Vikes, but that was his best game to this point, by far.

I'm not entirely opposed to zone. There are a lot of different kinds of zone. It is passive zone that I hate. A good aggressive help zone, which is basically the same thing as help man, is an effective option. I HATE prevent unless the clock is down to one play remaining, they're on their own 30, and one of your 3 D linemen is named Aaron.

Losing Blaire was huge. Losing Adams was huge. Getting some help on the line may be huge. We've played 1/4 of the season. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
I would feel better about it if Quinn was back on board to give his two cents, but it wouldn't make a whit of difference short term. Best part would be it puts him in position to be promoted...in case there's an opening.

 

[Fade]

Great post Fade! I created a very similar post basically making the exact same points as you did here. This is the link if you would like to read it.
https://seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=167498

If I had read this thread beforehand, I would not have gone to the trouble because we're basically saying the same thing. Nice to know I have some company in my concerns/frustrations.

 

[tersal]

Per Football Outsiders the Seahawks average time of possession per drive is
2:37 below the league average of 2:52. The Drive Success rate either a first down or touch down is .782 well above the league average of .745. Averaging 33.8 points a game second in the league clearly they are not emphasizing ball control. Let Russ cook is nice but longer drives would help the defense immensely. The team needs to find a happy medium between Let Russ Cook and Pete ball. Carson is the perfect back for a ball control rushing attack and he is averaging just 12.2 carries a game. The point is until this defense improves it is best to keep them off the field even if we see less of Russell Wilson's awesome passing game.

 

[Fade]

Per Football Outsiders the Seahawks average time of possession per drive is
2:37 below the league average of 2:52. The Drive Success rate either a first down or touch down is .782 well above the league average of .745. Averaging 33.8 points a game second in the league clearly they are not emphasizing ball control. Let Russ cook is nice but longer drives would help the defense immensely. The team needs to find a happy medium between Let Russ Cook and Pete ball. Carson is the perfect back for a ball control rushing attack and he is averaging just 12.2 carries a game. The point is until this defense improves it is best to keep them off the field even if we see less of Russell Wilson's awesome passing game.

I would tend to agree if the defense was getting off the field early in the game, and as the game wore on they gassed out and couldn't get off the field.

They simply can't get off the field on 3rd down. That is the problem. The offense could also do a better job of converting on 3rd down, but they've been so explosive they've done a good job of avoiding the down entirely and putting points on the board.

They need to pick the tempo up actually early in games, build a big lead. Force the other team to press, get some turnovers. Then run the hell out of the ball in the 2nd half with a big lead. That is how they're built.

All slowing the game down on offense will do is lower the ceiling of what they can achieve. We watched that the last 5 years, I'm good. "Pete Ball" sucks.

 

[AubHawk71]

Pete is the Holding Call of coaches.

 

[keasley45]

Per Football Outsiders the Seahawks average time of possession per drive is
2:37 below the league average of 2:52. The Drive Success rate either a first down or touch down is .782 well above the league average of .745. Averaging 33.8 points a game second in the league clearly they are not emphasizing ball control. Let Russ cook is nice but longer drives would help the defense immensely. The team needs to find a happy medium between Let Russ Cook and Pete ball. Carson is the perfect back for a ball control rushing attack and he is averaging just 12.2 carries a game. The point is until this defense improves it is best to keep them off the field even if we see less of Russell Wilson's awesome passing game.

I would tend to agree if the defense was getting off the field early in the game, and as the game wore on they gassed out and couldn't get off the field.

They simply can't get off the field on 3rd down. That is the problem. The offense could also do a better job of converting on 3rd down, but they've been so explosive they've done a good job of avoiding the down entirely and putting points on the board.

They need to pick the tempo up actually early in games, build a big lead. Force the other team to press, get some turnovers. Then run the hell out of the ball in the 2nd half with a big lead. That is how they're built.

All slowing the game down on offense will do is lower the ceiling of what they can achieve. We watched that the last 5 years, I'm good. "Pete Ball" sucks.

Agree with what you said about not going full pete ball, but there is a ton of sense in not exposing your weaknesses. regardless of how successful the defense is or isnt on third down, keeping them off the field if you can is smart. i too have no love for an offense that doesnt utilize its strongest weapon. But i also remember all too well the holmgren years when we could run and shoot / west coast ourselves to a td in 1:52 seconds all day but then were constantly having to run back out on the field to retake the lead we'd just given up because the D was so porous.

What's the answer? there isnt a good one unless the D gets markedly better. We have won 5 straight. But we've also had the benefit of no crowd noise and its no surprise across the league that offenses on average are playing well. Will be interesting to see how crowd noise in hostile environments effects the current trend, including our Hawks. Assuming there are any crowds this year.

It will also be interesting to see how we counter the adjustments that other teams will make to our new look O. The Vikes neutralized us for a half. I would expect more of that in the future, maybe not with that degree of success, but i don't think the hawks can continue at the torrid pace they've been on without the defense stepping up. And if the O does begin to struggle and cant put up 30 burgers every week, it would be VERY smart to up our TOP as much as possible. that has zero to do with PeteBall. Its just smart ball.

 

[tersal]

Per Football Outsiders the Seahawks average time of possession per drive is
2:37 below the league average of 2:52. The Drive Success rate either a first down or touch down is .782 well above the league average of .745. Averaging 33.8 points a game second in the league clearly they are not emphasizing ball control. Let Russ cook is nice but longer drives would help the defense immensely. The team needs to find a happy medium between Let Russ Cook and Pete ball. Carson is the perfect back for a ball control rushing attack and he is averaging just 12.2 carries a game. The point is until this defense improves it is best to keep them off the field even if we see less of Russell Wilson's awesome passing game.

I would tend to agree if the defense was getting off the field early in the game, and as the game wore on they gassed out and couldn't get off the field.

They simply can't get off the field on 3rd down. That is the problem. The offense could also do a better job of converting on 3rd down, but they've been so explosive they've done a good job of avoiding the down entirely and putting points on the board.

They need to pick the tempo up actually early in games, build a big lead. Force the other team to press, get some turnovers. Then run the hell out of the ball in the 2nd half with a big lead. That is how they're built.

All slowing the game down on offense will do is lower the ceiling of what they can achieve. We watched that the last 5 years, I'm good. "Pete Ball" sucks.

Agree with what you said about not going full pete ball, but there is a ton of sense in not exposing your weaknesses. regardless of how successful the defense is or isnt on third down, keeping them off the field if you can is smart. i too have no love for an offense that doesnt utilize its strongest weapon. But i also remember all too well the holmgren years when we could run and shoot / west coast ourselves to a td in 1:52 seconds all day but then were constantly having to run back out on the field to retake the lead we'd just given up because the D was so porous.

What's the answer? there isnt a good one unless the D gets markedly better. We have won 5 straight. But we've also had the benefit of no crowd noise and its no surprise across the league that offenses on average are playing well. Will be interesting to see how crowd noise in hostile environments effects the current trend, including our Hawks. Assuming there are any crowds this year.

It will also be interesting to see how we counter the adjustments that other teams will make to our new look O. The Vikes neutralized us for a half. I would expect more of that in the future, maybe not with that degree of success, but i don't think the hawks can continue at the torrid pace they've been on without the defense stepping up. And if the O does begin to struggle and cant put up 30 burgers every week, it would be VERY smart to up our TOP as much as possible. that has zero to do with PeteBall. Its just smart ball.

Two interesting responses I tend to agree with KEasley the Vikes shut The Seahawks down by keeping Russ off the field. Fade's suggestion of getting off to big leads is nice however this defense has not shown it can stop anyone. Though I do think they will improve. I am not recommending full PeteBALL a short passing game also accomplish ball control time of possession however, 12 carries a game for Carson is also wasting a very strong weapon. The area this offense has been weak in is third down conversion rate more third and shorts will assist in that area. Finally until this defense improves either by adjustment or personnel change the best approach is to keep them off the field.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Enough with the soft zone already. I don't want to regress where it is only fun watching the 4th qtr of the game like the last couple of years and hoping for another Wilson miracle. FUN!

Pete's argument would probably be that without the soft zone, we'd be giving up far MORE passing yards, and probably touchdowns, via the long ball. That is what soft zone exists to prevent - give up the underneath stuff but prevent the 60-yard bomb, then crank up the pass rush when they get into field goal range.

I don't like it either, but there's a reason it's done.

To me the difference visually between LOB and now (just the secondary) is that the LOB was really good at diagnosing routes playing that zone and it was short pass, catch, tackle right there. Not much YAC and they were on top of it if you tried to go over the top (with the exception of the TE seam route, which has always been a problem). It was a man/zone hybrid with the LOB. Now it's soft zone and dink and dunk turns into big chunks cause our guys are nowhere in the zipcode when the receiver catches the ball underneath. Even Sherm was susceptible to the stuff underneath when he had follow a crossing route to the middle of the field. Everything deep and outside, he pretty much snuffed out.
I don't think you can discount how bad corners affect the linebackers and safeties. Those position groups can't count on the corners to be where they're supposed to. You ignore it and just "do your job" for a while, but at some point, you start trying to cover them and get out of position yourself.

 

[Fade]

Via Joe Fann through 5 weeks the Seahawks rank 5th in total pressures. So as per the title they are getting pressure.


The Seahawks offense is not good enough on 3rd down to play ball control on offense, it would just lead to them punting more and scoring less, losing more games. They are an explosive offense, it's who they are.

I'm getting tired of fans solutions to the Seahawks problems is to put more on Wilson's plate.

How about Norton and Pete get the defense to play better and get their asses off the field on 3rd down?

 

[tersal]

Via Joe Fann through 5 weeks the Seahawks rank 5th in total pressures. So as per the title they are getting pressure.


The Seahawks offense is not good enough on 3rd down to play ball control on offense, it would just lead to them punting more and scoring less, losing more games. They are an explosive offense, it's who they are.

I'm getting tired of fans solutions to the Seahawks problems is to put more on Wilson's plate.

How about Norton and Pete get the defense to play better and get their asses off the field on 3rd down?

Fade, fans opinions are what these sights are all about. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Finaly I am fairly certain the defense will improve. By the home stretch they will look much better.