Times: Offense must change identity, from run to Wilson

[Uncle Si]

so cryptic.

Yes, those first few series were unfortunate.

But, if they did indeed move the offensive philosophy to put the ball in Wilson's hands after that, the results looked good, no?

Yes, against an average D, in extreme heat that was hot enough to completely collapse our D, we were able to finally move the ball in the 2nd half. :2thumbs:

man.. answer for everything. Pointless trying to add anything really.

We scored two consecutive TDs to close out the first and start the 2nd. Were the Titans D "gassed?"

doesn't matter. i'm sure the answer.

 

[seedhawk]

What really frustrates me is, everyone has known for 2 years now that this is RW's team. We have all witnessed the teams success when a semi spread no huddle offense is used. No huddle does not equate to up tempo. We all also know RW is really good in hurry up up tempo, however, that is not a sustainable option.

So, the $64,000 question is, just why in hell do we keep slowing things down, using mass subs, giving the opponents D a chance to rotate and stay fresh? Holy hell, we have a short QB who needs lanes, yet we insist on running plays out of formations that choke the box, putting about 20 players in a small area in the middle of the field.

Wonder why Brady gets rid of the ball so quickly? Watch the NE offense at work. 70% of their plays are straight out of a college spread offense, being executed by pro's. Spread the defense out and allow Russ to use the short pass as a long handoff.

Also, you just do not pay a QB basically $20 large to hand the ball off to a 7th round cheap Rb on over 50% of offensive plays, unless said Rb is gaining significant chunks on most plays

 

[Uncle Si]

Neither will work with a piss poor oline.

Ctrl--Alt--Del

27 points and over 400+ yards of offense. 1 sack. whether Tennessee was in some sort of prevent or not, it still seemed effective.

O-line either wasn't the issue yesterday or was mitigated by different play calling.

(is "Ctrl-Alt-Del" your new thing? Like a sign off or catchphrase? Like Joey Lawrence's "Whoa?")

Are you kidding ? What game did you watch ? We racked up all those yards and most of the points once they went prevent.. you can't possibly see that any other way... so far our team has scored 4 meaningful tds.. in 12 qtrs.... that's unaccetable.... the browns..... the freaking browns are doing significantly better then that . Let that sink in....

Did they go to prevent at the end of the first? start of the 2nd?

I'm not saying the offense is doing a good job. Opposite. saying that if they found something that worked in those td drives to end the first, start the second and get going in the 4th then maybe that's the direction they go

why is this a struggle?

 

[IBleedBlueAndGreen]

We've already done this. Look at the last 20+ games. This team has become way more effective when passing the ball more often than running it. Pete and Russ can SAY that their identity is still has a running football team, but that actually stopped being true when Marshawn left. This is Russ' team, and as long as Bevell starts to realize that, I think that Russ can take it a long ways. What I fear though is that Pete and Darrell will be a little too stubborn for a little too long before realizing that they just can't continue with the strategy that worked 3 and 4 years ago. The personnel on the field has changed, and the identity of the football team has to change as well for it to have the same level of success it had 3 and 4 years ago.

 

[Seymour]

so cryptic.

Yes, those first few series were unfortunate.

But, if they did indeed move the offensive philosophy to put the ball in Wilson's hands after that, the results looked good, no?

Yes, against an average D, in extreme heat that was hot enough to completely collapse our D, we were able to finally move the ball in the 2nd half. :2thumbs:

man.. answer for everything. Pointless trying to add anything really.

We scored two consecutive TDs to close out the first and start the 2nd. Were the Titans D "gassed?"

doesn't matter. i'm sure the answer.

Not sure. Was ours in the 2nd when they gave up an end of 2nd 1:30 drive for 3 points?

I don't have an answer. I know our oline sucks with 100% certainty though. So any momentum they gain will be short lived.

They built the current team with a serious flawed plan to use young cheap olinemen that HAVE to be trained 2+ years, that are worse in pass protection than running game by Cable's own standards, and our greatest weapons on offense are in the passing game. Even thinking Jimmy Graham is a fit is another flawed plan. Lacy..."we like him big" (yet slow) is another flawed plan. Pete is out of plans, and prob. out of time soon enough IMO.

 

[Ozzy]

Wilson is capable of running a high powered offense. People seem to highlight a couple of missed passes like no one else does the same thing. Watch Brady, Rodgers etc. they all miss multiple passes each week. Wilson is obviously better then the past couple of weeks accuracy wise as we have 5 years to judge him by and he is has accurate as anyone. Run it through him, the old way isn't working so why not.

 

[Uncle Si]

so cryptic.

Yes, those first few series were unfortunate.

But, if they did indeed move the offensive philosophy to put the ball in Wilson's hands after that, the results looked good, no?

Yes, against an average D, in extreme heat that was hot enough to completely collapse our D, we were able to finally move the ball in the 2nd half. :2thumbs:

man.. answer for everything. Pointless trying to add anything really.

We scored two consecutive TDs to close out the first and start the 2nd. Were the Titans D "gassed?"

doesn't matter. i'm sure the answer.

Not sure. Was ours in the 2nd when they gave up an end of 2nd 1:30 drive for 3 points?

I don't have an answer. I know our oline sucks with 100% certainty though. So any momentum they gain will be short lived.

They built the current team with a serious flawed plan to use young cheap olinemen that HAVE to be trained 2+ years, that are worse in pass protection than running game by Cable's own standards, and our greatest weapons on offense are in the passing game. Even thinking Jimmy Graham is a fit is another flawed plan. Lacy..."we like him big" (yet slow) is another flawed plan. Pete is out of plans, and prob. out of time soon enough IMO.

Yes I feel like this has been done to death. (and no idea what the Titan's offense has to do with ours? I thought the Hawks D played awful in that last drive. were set up for failure. What's it matter to this?)

Does every conversation about the offense have to focus on what we already know as a means of crippling the conversation?

 

[Hawks46]

While at first glance that seems right, statistics don't back it up.

The Seahawks are 0-4 when Wilson passes 35 + times. They are 1-5 when he passes 40+ times.

Passing more isn't the answer. It's when we pass, how we pass and pass protection.

Pass protection was fine yesterday.

Passing early doesn't seem to be the answer, as Wilson tends to be inaccurate throwing high early in games.

Running early hasn't worked because our OL has a hard time establishing the run.

Don't ask me what's working, but at first blush....passing more isn't it either.

 

[Jville]

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/seahawks-must-change-offensive-identity-from-run-game-to-russell-wilson/

I am tempted to agree with this. The problem for a while is not that the Wilson isn't capable of carrying the team (in my opinion) but that the coaching staff can't decide which playbook to run (2014, run-first, or post-bye 2015 in which Wilson went on a tear without the run game). When they've let Wilson take over the game, they've usually done very well. 2015 and 2016 had some incredible offensive performances, both on the road and at home against quality teams.

HOWEVER, after seeing how badly Wilson's accuracy is suffering three games in a row (an unprecedented stretch) and why the entire receiving corps has suddenly developed the dropsies, I'm not so sure a pass-first concept can bail the offense out, either.

Russell Wilson is the best second baseman I've ever seen at the quarterback position. He plays the position exactly how I would expect a second baseman to play. He may start a little slow ... but, I can't overstate how much I enjoy Russell Wilson's improv and finish. Best entertainment I've seen since Fran Tarkenton. And, given that Russell is just warming up, this year could be his greatest show yet!

 

[Tical21]

Come on guys. We've already done the work to figure out that Russell and the offense aren't functional without a successful running game and a commitment to it. The only way we're getting back to where we want to go is by running effectively and letting Russ do his thing getting big plays through play-action. It's quite simple to me, really. If the run game isn't working, keep working at it and improving it until it is. Cause without it, we're toast.

 

[cymatica]

While at first glance that seems right, statistics don't back it up.

The Seahawks are 0-4 when Wilson passes 35 + times. They are 1-5 when he passes 40+ times.

Passing more isn't the answer. It's when we pass, how we pass and pass protection.

Pass protection was fine yesterday.

Passing early doesn't seem to be the answer, as Wilson tends to be inaccurate throwing high early in games.

Running early hasn't worked because our OL has a hard time establishing the run.

Don't ask me what's working, but at first blush....passing more isn't it either.

Those stats do not say passing won't work. I would bet most, if not all, of those high pass games were not in the gameplan. Either the run game didn't work and was abandoned, or they were playing catch up. There are ways they can figure out how to get Wilson warmed up faster, they are just stubborn as hell and won't change

 

[Seymour]

Yes, against an average D, in extreme heat that was hot enough to completely collapse our D, we were able to finally move the ball in the 2nd half. :2thumbs:

man.. answer for everything. Pointless trying to add anything really.

We scored two consecutive TDs to close out the first and start the 2nd. Were the Titans D "gassed?"

doesn't matter. i'm sure the answer.

Not sure. Was ours in the 2nd when they gave up an end of 2nd 1:30 drive for 3 points?

I don't have an answer. I know our oline sucks with 100% certainty though. So any momentum they gain will be short lived.

They built the current team with a serious flawed plan to use young cheap olinemen that HAVE to be trained 2+ years, that are worse in pass protection than running game by Cable's own standards, and our greatest weapons on offense are in the passing game. Even thinking Jimmy Graham is a fit is another flawed plan. Lacy..."we like him big" (yet slow) is another flawed plan. Pete is out of plans, and prob. out of time soon enough IMO.

Yes I feel like this has been done to death. (and no idea what the Titan's offense has to do with ours? I thought the Hawks D played awful in that last drive. were set up for failure. What's it matter to this?)

Does every conversation about the offense have to focus on what we already know as a means of crippling the conversation?

No it sure doesn't. But if it answers the question are we suppose to ignore it because it was used yesterday by poster X?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Pass protection was fine yesterday. .

Err, nope.

@SamuelRGold

The #Seahawks OL allowed 24 pressures on Russell Wilson. That's 49%!!

But I agree with this thread, it's time to stop sticking our heads in the sand and not realizing that this line and run game is all of a sudden going back to 2012.

It's better for Russell, it's better for the O-line, and it's better trying to get receivers like Jimmy engaged in the game and rolling when you air it out and go from run to set up the pass to pass to set up your run game.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Come on guys. We've already done the work to figure out that Russell and the offense aren't functional without a successful running game and a commitment to it. The only way we're getting back to where we want to go is by running effectively and letting Russ do his thing getting big plays through play-action. It's quite simple to me, really. If the run game isn't working, keep working at it and improving it until it is. Cause without it, we're toast.

So do you just look at the second half of 2015 and say the image below? Because our running game was NOT just giving Wilson outstanding success in that stretch.

 

[vin.couve12]

We've pass to set up the run for some time now. We ran the ball only 41% of the time last year. In your glorious 2015 Wilson season we ran the ball 50% of the time.

We are running the ball 40% of the time now.

Use your brains, people. It's never as simple as just following a guy.

 

[TwistedHusky]

He isn't Aaron Rodgers, and he won't be.

Wilson is most dangerous in PA.

Play Action does not work if the defense is not concerned about the run.

The problem is that if a defense makes a mistake and get caught trying to play pass and instead get run? They might give up 6-8 yards, likely 4-5. There is no threat there so they really can afford to focus on the pass and deal with the run as it comes (maybe on short yardage PA would work).

Same thing with RO, it only works if you have to worry about the RB.

Carson is great for 3-5 yards but he isn't going to rip one off like Rawls could.

Or at least the defense is not worried about it.

So it is hard to use the run to open up the pass when nobody cares if you run. But Wilson is only going to be the best QB he can IF we get a good run game.

I don't think Wilson can become Brees or Peyton lite, or even Cutler lite. But as a QB he can be a unique threat when paired with a decent run threat.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

We've pass to set up the run for some time now. We ran the ball only 41% of the time last year. In your glorious 2015 Wilson season we ran the ball 50% of the time.

We are running the ball 40% of the time now..

This makes it even worse.

Pete's saying he wants to be a ball control punishing run team, yet the offense has been so terrible that they can't even get to over 50% run.

So why? I just don't get that philosophical stubbornness by Pete.

- you got Russell, a tempo rhythm running style QB
- you got the most dynamic catching TE in the league
- you got a group of young quick receivers that can't block
- you got two VERY good catching RB's

SO I KNOW, RUN THE BALL!

 

[vin.couve12]

Same mistakes over and over. Being a huge Brian Dawkins and Jeremiah Trotter fan, I watched a lot of McNabb play and this is going very much the same way. Same style, same early game jitters/inaccuracy, same great playmaking ability.

But you go and try to turn a cat into a dog or vice versa. RW needs to be a playmaker in a balanced attack.

 

[RolandDeschain]

We've pass to set up the run for some time now. We ran the ball only 41% of the time last year. In your glorious 2015 Wilson season we ran the ball 50% of the time.

We are running the ball 40% of the time now.

Use your brains, people. It's never as simple as just following a guy.

Speaking of using your brains, I'd suggest that you also do so. Throwing out percentages of running plays vs. passing plays is utterly meaningless on its own. The how, the when, and the situation are all way more important. You can't GLEAN anything from just the percentages.

SMDH...

 

[TwistedHusky]

Yep.

I mentioned this reminds me of McNabb.

Same issues, same approach, likely same outcome.