Times: Offense must change identity, from run to Wilson

[vin.couve12]

:177692:

We've pass to set up the run for some time now. We ran the ball only 41% of the time last year. In your glorious 2015 Wilson season we ran the ball 50% of the time.

We are running the ball 40% of the time now.

Use your brains, people. It's never as simple as just following a guy.

Speaking of using your brains, I'd suggest that you also do so. Throwing out percentages of running plays vs. passing plays is utterly meaningless on its own. The how, the when, and the situation are all way more important. You can't GLEAN anything from just the percentages.

SMDH...

Sure. The end of the 9ers game skewed numbers not unlike the end of the Titans game. During the coarse of a game, our percentages are about 60/40.

If you want to pass more you're off your rocker.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Sure. The end of the 9ers game skewed numbers not unlike the end of the Titans game. During the coarse of a game, our percentages are about 60/40.

If you want to pass more you're off your rocker.

How damn long have you seen me posting on this board? I want to change HOW we're passing. Good Lord, man.

 

[HawkerD]

This is what separates Belichik from the rest of the league. Willing to take advantage of and exploit the differences between the Patriots and the opponent and not get tied to a particular doctrine. Of course he is smart enough to be able to pull it off and and he has Tom Bradey.

Pete adherence to doctrine will get him slayed.

 

[StoneCold]

I don't think there is a quick fix, pass more run less. The oline needs to improve. they have each game, no reason to think they won't continue. In yesterdays game, we shot ourselves in the foot with penalties and bad execution. How many low.bad snaps were there?

Clean things up and improved oline play and we will start to look better.

 

[Scorpion05]

While at first glance that seems right, statistics don't back it up.

The Seahawks are 0-4 when Wilson passes 35 + times. They are 1-5 when he passes 40+ times.

Passing more isn't the answer. It's when we pass, how we pass and pass protection.

Pass protection was fine yesterday.

Passing early doesn't seem to be the answer, as Wilson tends to be inaccurate throwing high early in games.

Running early hasn't worked because our OL has a hard time establishing the run.

Don't ask me what's working, but at first blush....passing more isn't it either.

How is he on one hand winless when passing 35 + times but has a win when passing 40+ times

If I'm not mistaken, Aaron Rodgers has a similar statistic. The truth if your defense gives up 30 points or more you have a hard time winning, regardless of circumstance. Qbs typically pass that much to keep up in the game

 

[vin.couve12]

We started off the game with a run for no gain. Teo passes then out.

3 passes then out. Wilson ran for 3 on one of them. Playcalling is now 5 to 1.

3rd drive starts with a pass for a 1st down. Two carson runs of 5 and 6 yards for another 1st down. Then 3 incomplete passes in a row.

4th drive we start with runs of 6 amd 3 yards. 3rd and 1 and we don't make the short yardage running play. Punt again.

That's the first quarter and if we still do the 15 play playcalling script to start the game then the script os over. Playcalling is 9 passes to 6 runs.

I could do this for every quarter, but the point is that you already have and have had what you're asking for. We pass first now and even worse, our "mixture", as John Madden would say, is way, way off. Too many 3 passes in a row and 3 runs in a row.

This whole conversation reminds me of an NDT seminar though. Nearly every scientist throughout history, when at the end of their wits of what they can discover, resorts to invoking god.

You don't know what to do so you just believe in a guy. Problem is that you already have the style that you want and it ain't working and likely never will vs a style that got us to two superbowls.

I'm going with empirical evidence vs just believing in a guy.

 

[Scorpion05]

Same mistakes over and over. Being a huge Brian Dawkins and Jeremiah Trotter fan, I watched a lot of McNabb play and this is going very much the same way. Same style, same early game jitters/inaccuracy, same great playmaking ability.

But you go and try to turn a cat into a dog or vice versa. RW needs to be a playmaker in a balanced attack.

I was a huge McNabb fan and this isn't close to accurate. Russell has had his missed throws (like any other QB, including Brady/Rodgers). But he is far more accurate and efficient than McNabb. McNabb never had as poor an O-line, had an offensive genius in Andy Reid, and quite frankly all of Russell's numbers over his career disproves this notion

We do this every year. Russell has a bad stretch of games and he's garbage or average, then he goes on a winning streak and the entire tone changes. Why can't we scrutinize our QB and team fairly like other fans of other teams do?

 

[vin.couve12]

Same mistakes over and over. Being a huge Brian Dawkins and Jeremiah Trotter fan, I watched a lot of McNabb play and this is going very much the same way. Same style, same early game jitters/inaccuracy, same great playmaking ability.

But you go and try to turn a cat into a dog or vice versa. RW needs to be a playmaker in a balanced attack.

I was a huge McNabb fan and this isn't close to accurate. Russell has had his missed throws (like any other QB, including Brady/Rodgers). But he is far more accurate and efficient than McNabb. McNabb never had as poor an O-line, had an offensive genius in Andy Reid, and quite frankly all of Russell's numbers over his career disproves this notion

We do this every year. Russell has a bad stretch of games and he's garbage or average, then he goes on a winning streak and the entire tone changes. Why can't we scrutinize our QB and team fairly like other fans of other teams do?

Andy Reid never gave McNabb a 50/50 ratio. They were 60/40 consistently and therefore would never win a championship.

You can only do that if you have one of about 3 QBs.

 

[vin.couve12]

And again, even on Wilson's best stretch in 2015 we were still 50/50.

Literally, you make Wilson look like an average QB with this nonsense. Establish the run and watch Wilson thrive again...

 

[Uncle Si]

And again, even on Wilson's best stretch in 2015 we were still 50/50.

Literally, you make Wilson look like an average QB with this nonsense. Establish the run and watch Wilson thrive again...

But this team is not going to establish the run with current personnel. So what then?

 

[Uncle Si]

man.. answer for everything. Pointless trying to add anything really.

We scored two consecutive TDs to close out the first and start the 2nd. Were the Titans D "gassed?"

doesn't matter. i'm sure the answer.

Not sure. Was ours in the 2nd when they gave up an end of 2nd 1:30 drive for 3 points?

I don't have an answer. I know our oline sucks with 100% certainty though. So any momentum they gain will be short lived.

They built the current team with a serious flawed plan to use young cheap olinemen that HAVE to be trained 2+ years, that are worse in pass protection than running game by Cable's own standards, and our greatest weapons on offense are in the passing game. Even thinking Jimmy Graham is a fit is another flawed plan. Lacy..."we like him big" (yet slow) is another flawed plan. Pete is out of plans, and prob. out of time soon enough IMO.

Yes I feel like this has been done to death. (and no idea what the Titan's offense has to do with ours? I thought the Hawks D played awful in that last drive. were set up for failure. What's it matter to this?)

Does every conversation about the offense have to focus on what we already know as a means of crippling the conversation?

No it sure doesn't. But if it answers the question are we suppose to ignore it because it was used yesterday by poster X?

The answer to every question is "no" then.

Good talk Seymour.

 

[RolandDeschain]

We started off the game with a run for no gain. Teo passes then out.

3 passes then out. Wilson ran for 3 on one of them. Playcalling is now 5 to 1.

3rd drive starts with a pass for a 1st down. Two carson runs of 5 and 6 yards for another 1st down. Then 3 incomplete passes in a row.

4th drive we start with runs of 6 amd 3 yards. 3rd and 1 and we don't make the short yardage running play. Punt again.

That's the first quarter and if we still do the 15 play playcalling script to start the game then the script os over. Playcalling is 9 passes to 6 runs.

I could do this for every quarter, but the point is that you already have and have had what you're asking for. We pass first now and even worse, our "mixture", as John Madden would say, is way, way off. Too many 3 passes in a row and 3 runs in a row.

This whole conversation reminds me of an NDT seminar though. Nearly every scientist throughout history, when at the end of their wits of what they can discover, resorts to invoking god.

You don't know what to do so you just believe in a guy. Problem is that you already have the style that you want and it ain't working and likely never will vs a style that got us to two superbowls.

I'm going with empirical evidence vs just believing in a guy.

Somehow you completely and utterly do not understand why I hate Bevell and why he sucks. Wow.

 

[vin.couve12]

And again, even on Wilson's best stretch in 2015 we were still 50/50.

Literally, you make Wilson look like an average QB with this nonsense. Establish the run and watch Wilson thrive again...

But this team is not going to establish the run with current personnel. So what then?

Says who? No gain, 5, 6, 6, 3, no gain.

That's how the 1st quarter went. We were doing fine and even Pete said as much. We were actually doing a lot better than the Titans, in fact.

They had conviction. We did not.

 

[vin.couve12]

We started off the game with a run for no gain. Teo passes then out.

3 passes then out. Wilson ran for 3 on one of them. Playcalling is now 5 to 1.

3rd drive starts with a pass for a 1st down. Two carson runs of 5 and 6 yards for another 1st down. Then 3 incomplete passes in a row.

4th drive we start with runs of 6 amd 3 yards. 3rd and 1 and we don't make the short yardage running play. Punt again.

That's the first quarter and if we still do the 15 play playcalling script to start the game then the script os over. Playcalling is 9 passes to 6 runs.

I could do this for every quarter, but the point is that you already have and have had what you're asking for. We pass first now and even worse, our "mixture", as John Madden would say, is way, way off. Too many 3 passes in a row and 3 runs in a row.

This whole conversation reminds me of an NDT seminar though. Nearly every scientist throughout history, when at the end of their wits of what they can discover, resorts to invoking god.

You don't know what to do so you just believe in a guy. Problem is that you already have the style that you want and it ain't working and likely never will vs a style that got us to two superbowls.

I'm going with empirical evidence vs just believing in a guy.

Somehow you completely and utterly do not understand why I hate Bevell and why he sucks. Wow.

Wasn't really addressing you, but Bevell is assuredly a mental midget.

 

[Uncle Si]

And again, even on Wilson's best stretch in 2015 we were still 50/50.

Literally, you make Wilson look like an average QB with this nonsense. Establish the run and watch Wilson thrive again...

But this team is not going to establish the run with current personnel. So what then?

Says who? No gain, 5, 6, 6, 3, no gain.

That's how the 1st quarter went. We were doing fine and even Pete said as much. We were actually doing a lot better than the Titans, in fact.

They had conviction. We did not.

What about the other two games? 50 yards and no TDs against the packers. Much better against the 9ers but still barely any offense. Wilson does not seem to be thriving there.

Seahawks had two consecutive TD drives to end 1st half and start 2nd half on Sunday. One drive went 5 plays, 86 yards, all passing. 2nd drive went 75 yards, 5 of 9 plays on the ground for 21 yards.

So where is the imbalance? It's clear the offense is struggling. Does it need play action? Throws to the RBs? Shotgun and hurry up?

 

[vin.couve12]

What are you talking about? We ran ot a total of 18 tomes against GB and 5 of those carries went to slowmo Lacey, who hasn't been seen since, mind you. SF we also had 6 wasted runs with Rawls. With him that's kind of a wash because we need to get him ramped up, but damn...

As far as playcalling, Wilson will always need shotgun. It helps with bis vision. The closer he is to OL the less he can see. You see some other QBs make throws completely surrounded by OL and DL because they can see. Wilson literally cannot do this and so we'll continue to use a ton of shotgun. I form and offset also needs to stay, bit these formation literally require that we run tje ball. Play action, waggle, etc has zero effeciveness without running the ball.

The one thing I would say is that we need greater diversity of playcalling per formation. In I or offset we have a limited set of plays. Same with shotgun. For instance, if Willson lines up tight as a move TE he's going to crack back against the grain to tje esge5defender on the backside on an inside zone.
Nice play but when I see it I know what they're going to do.

And so does the defense. We need a good 6 plays per formation. We tip our hand ALL the time.

 

[Uncle Si]

So that's what I'm talking about. Or was your question rhetorical?

The running isn't freeing up Wilson, whether it's gaining yards or not. Your options make sense.

What happened to the read option?

 

[vin.couve12]

Maybe you're a young uncle, but get back to 50/50 and make them honor the run read and the pass will open up just as it has since the beginning of football time.

This 60/40 mess will never work, under the circumstances.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

We're passing a lot because our first down plays aren't working. That's what it's starting to come down to, at least for me. Our first down execution.

Our success in 2013 and 2014 came in large part because of our ability to get into 2nd-and-5 on a regular basis. Get there and your play-calling can be more unpredictable, forcing the defense to get cautious and prepare for anything. We don't have that anymore. Defenses are able to tee on Russell and our receivers on third down because it's a third-down and long.

I'd like to key up a look at our first down results sometime and see what's going wrong. Maybe compare it to previous years. But for sure, when you fail on first down, you're going to find yourself passing more in an attempt to convert.

 

[Mojambo]

The talent they've assembled at every level on the offense SCREAMS spread the field, throw to set up the run offense. It's clearly the offensive coordinator's strength as well.

Why Pete Carroll continues to try and cram the "run first" square peg into a round hole I'll never know.

The positive thing is that if the defense continues to be leaky, they'll have no choice but to allow the offense to become what it is destined to be.