Trust broken?

[volsunghawk]

If the players didn't like the trade, then they should have kicked Percy's ass when he got out of line in the locker room, and got in his face when he refused to play like a spoiled brat.

Players can't have it both ways, and it sounds like Pete did give the players time to deal with Harvin on their own.........and it didn't work out.

I don't blame Pete, you can't allow a player to challenge your authority by refusing to play like that. That's a no brainer to me. Either you're all in or you're gone.

How do you know that the players didn't get in Harvin's face and try to deal with Harvin? I'm pretty sure that some at least tried. We know that Russell Wilson tried and couldn't.

But I am disappointed in Beast, Avril, and Irvin in taking sides with Harvin. If even half the stuff we've heard about Harvin's behavior is true, they should have been 4 square behind the team and their decision to part ways with him. Do they think that it's OK to refuse to go into a game? What the heck was Pete supposed to do? What would anyone in a position of authority do when blatantly challenged with an insubordinate act?

Taking sides? You get that from single tweets from those guys? :|

 

[RiverDog]

If the players didn't like the trade, then they should have kicked Percy's ass when he got out of line in the locker room, and got in his face when he refused to play like a spoiled brat.

Players can't have it both ways, and it sounds like Pete did give the players time to deal with Harvin on their own.........and it didn't work out.

I don't blame Pete, you can't allow a player to challenge your authority by refusing to play like that. That's a no brainer to me. Either you're all in or you're gone.

How do you know that the players didn't get in Harvin's face and try to deal with Harvin? I'm pretty sure that some at least tried. We know that Russell Wilson tried and couldn't.

But I am disappointed in Beast, Avril, and Irvin in taking sides with Harvin. If even half the stuff we've heard about Harvin's behavior is true, they should have been 4 square behind the team and their decision to part ways with him. Do they think that it's OK to refuse to go into a game? What the heck was Pete supposed to do? What would anyone in a position of authority do when blatantly challenged with an insubordinate act?

Taking sides? You get that from single tweets from those guys? :|

I'll admit that basing who's on who's side on a single tweet from individual players, at least as it relates to Irvin and Avril, is a reach. But not with Beast, who according to reports, almost didn't board the bus to the airport. That's a little more serious than a spur of the moment tweet.

There are reports of a locker room split, which would indicate that there's at least several players in addition to Beast that are on the opposite side of the issue from Pete and the coaching staff, and it's only natural for someone like me to try and put two and two together. Hopefully those tweets by Irvin and Avril was an initial gut reaction to losing a player that to some might have been a close friend. Mid season trades seldom happen in the NFL, and having one happen that involves a star player is probably a pretty fair shock to everyone.

 

[Ozzy]

Did anyone see Baldwin do his boxing celebration after scoring? I think more people were for the trade than against it in that locker room. Most of the people speaking out played on the opposite side of the ball and don't see a lot of what Baldwin, Wilson etc see. The guy quit on his team by refusing to go back into the game. I promise more than a handful of players would find that unacceptable. I hope.

This was pure gold. Thanks for sharing.

 

[volsunghawk]

If the players didn't like the trade, then they should have kicked Percy's ass when he got out of line in the locker room, and got in his face when he refused to play like a spoiled brat.

Players can't have it both ways, and it sounds like Pete did give the players time to deal with Harvin on their own.........and it didn't work out.

I don't blame Pete, you can't allow a player to challenge your authority by refusing to play like that. That's a no brainer to me. Either you're all in or you're gone.

How do you know that the players didn't get in Harvin's face and try to deal with Harvin? I'm pretty sure that some at least tried. We know that Russell Wilson tried and couldn't.

But I am disappointed in Beast, Avril, and Irvin in taking sides with Harvin. If even half the stuff we've heard about Harvin's behavior is true, they should have been 4 square behind the team and their decision to part ways with him. Do they think that it's OK to refuse to go into a game? What the heck was Pete supposed to do? What would anyone in a position of authority do when blatantly challenged with an insubordinate act?

Taking sides? You get that from single tweets from those guys? :|

I'll admit that basing who's on who's side on a single tweet from individual players, at least as it relates to Irvin and Avril, is a reach. But not with Beast, who according to reports, almost didn't board the bus to the airport. That's a little more serious than a spur of the moment tweet.

There are reports of a locker room split, which would indicate that there's at least several players in addition to Beast that are on the opposite side of the issue from Pete and the coaching staff, and it's only natural for someone like me to try and put two and two together. Hopefully those tweets by Irvin and Avril was an initial gut reaction to losing a player that to some might have been a close friend. Mid season trades seldom happen in the NFL, and having one happen that involves a star player is probably a pretty fair shock to everyone.

And those reports about Lynch not boarding the bus were apparently overblown according to team sources and Lynch's agent. According to Warren Moon, Lynch was surprised and a bit upset over the trade, but it didn't affect his willingness to join the team for the bus ride. And honestly, while Harvin might have butted heads with several different players, it's common sense to think that he'd made some friends while in Seattle, too. Lynch, Avril, and Irvin's responses are likely nothing more than quick remarks of surprise over the departure of a guy they liked.

 

[byau]

The situation would have got worse if Percy wasn't traded.

There might be a divided locker room, the message itself is clear at least and where the leadership is too.

Here's what we value, here's what we don't value, etc. and as proof, we are getting rid of a playmaker because his values didn't align with the Seahawk way

If the rumor is true about him sitting out the Cowboys 4th quarter against the wishes of the coach, then by keeping him you allow that behavior. By getting rid of him you show your value of the coach and those who are coachable.

If you think about it, the Seahawk way valued hard work over money and that's what got Russell the starting job. You tell people that if you work hard, you can jump the line to a starter. The opposite message would have been, despite how hard you work, you won't get start in front of someone who makes more money

I still have trust in the message and tone the front office and coach want to set, and in the long run it's better, just too bad if it costs us a SB repeat season

 

[AVL]

I remember AP sent a " We just traded our best player" tweet after Percy was traded to us.

Let's overreacted with the media.

 

[RiverDog]

And those reports about Lynch not boarding the bus were apparently overblown according to team sources and Lynch's agent. According to Warren Moon, Lynch was surprised and a bit upset over the trade, but it didn't affect his willingness to join the team for the bus ride. And honestly, while Harvin might have butted heads with several different players, it's common sense to think that he'd made some friends while in Seattle, too. Lynch, Avril, and Irvin's responses are likely nothing more than quick remarks of surprise over the departure of a guy they liked.

There's so many rumors coming out of the Hawks locker room now that I don't know what to believe and what not to believe. I'm not going to be selective and believe some rumors, like Harvin getting into a fight with Tate, yet dismiss others, like Beast almost refusing to board the bus, simply because I don't like what the latter implies, ie a locker room split. Now there's a rumor that some Hawk players don't care too much for Russell Wilson, that he's too cuddly with management, that he doesn't take responsibility for his mistakes, and worst of all, that he's not "black" enough.

It's getting to the point where it really doesn't matter whether or not the rumors are true. I've seen idle gossip ruin relationships and destroy marriages where absolutely no infidelity occurred. They cause people to say things they don't really mean, re-open old arguments, things get said that can't be taken back and pretty soon the differences become irreconcilable, especially when they're as personal as some of these rumors have been, specifically those about our franchise quarterback.

Jezus, I hate this Harvin trade...the one that brought him here, that is. It's by far the worst decision Pete has made since taking over as head coach.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

And those reports about Lynch not boarding the bus were apparently overblown according to team sources and Lynch's agent. According to Warren Moon, Lynch was surprised and a bit upset over the trade, but it didn't affect his willingness to join the team for the bus ride. And honestly, while Harvin might have butted heads with several different players, it's common sense to think that he'd made some friends while in Seattle, too. Lynch, Avril, and Irvin's responses are likely nothing more than quick remarks of surprise over the departure of a guy they liked.

There's so many rumors coming out of the Hawks locker room now that I don't know what to believe and what not to believe. I'm not going to be selective and believe some rumors, like Harvin getting into a fight with Tate, yet dismiss others, like Beast almost refusing to board the bus, simply because I don't like what the latter implies, ie a locker room split. Now there's a rumor that some Hawk players don't care too much for Russell Wilson, that he's too cuddly with management, that he doesn't take responsibility for his mistakes, and worst of all, that he's not "black" enough.

It's getting to the point where it really doesn't matter whether or not the rumors are true. I've seen idle gossip ruin relationships and destroy marriages where absolutely no infidelity occurred. They cause people to say things they don't really mean, re-open old arguments, things get said that can't be taken back and pretty soon the differences become irreconcilable, especially when they're as personal as some of these rumors have been, specifically those about our franchise quarterback.

Jezus, I hate this Harvin trade...the one that brought him here, that is. It's by far the worst decision Pete has made since taking over as head coach.

This debacle with harvin trade is actually a good thing. It proves that no one person is more important to the TEAMWORK effort than anyone else. Someone above asked RW? I agree he may be important to the team in his person....but he is all about that action for the TEAM EFFORT. No single person action unless it is his work ethic for the team. He studies for the team so he can get better, he helps others for the team effort, he promotes outside of work hours for the team ethical situation, and he even promotes the 12s. He is the epitome of all in. If Harvin was not all in for the TEAM effort, then he gets what he deserves. Another above said that they may have to play with him again. They will have to deal with the same person until that person grows up and becomes an adult with the work ethics and shows them. Remember one thing, actions speak louder than words....unless it is on Sunday at the Clink. :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :stirthepot:

 

[volsunghawk]

I'm not going to be selective and believe some rumors, like Harvin getting into a fight with Tate, yet dismiss others, like Beast almost refusing to board the bus, simply because I don't like what the latter implies, ie a locker room split.

Then how about going to the sources that have come out since those initial rumors? The Harvin/Tate rumor was confirmed by Michael Robinson, who said he broke up the fight. The Lynch rumor was denied by both his agent and Warren Moon. Maybe don't believe any rumors until there's some validation of whether they hold any water?

This board has a pretty lengthy and almost comical history of hysterical speculation and attempts at mind-reading (oh, Earl Thomas must hate it here since he didn't smile enough when the Seahawks were on the phone with him during the draft!). it's one of the board's worst features. I realize we're all desperate for Seahawks news all the time, but it sometimes seems like we're exceedingly stupid when that "news" comes out. We tend not to treat reports critically, which is silly when thinking about a sport where there is so much media misinformation. And then you have the optimists and pessimists, who chose what to believe based on whether or not the story supports their belief that the Seahawks are the bestest team ever and never make any mistakes or that the Seahawks are destined for doom and a 3-13 season.

 

[RiverDog]

I'm not going to be selective and believe some rumors, like Harvin getting into a fight with Tate, yet dismiss others, like Beast almost refusing to board the bus, simply because I don't like what the latter implies, ie a locker room split.

Then how about going to the sources that have come out since those initial rumors? The Harvin/Tate rumor was confirmed by Michael Robinson, who said he broke up the fight. The Lynch rumor was denied by both his agent and Warren Moon. Maybe don't believe any rumors until there's some validation of whether they hold any water?

This board has a pretty lengthy and almost comical history of hysterical speculation and attempts at mind-reading (oh, Earl Thomas must hate it here since he didn't smile enough when the Seahawks were on the phone with him during the draft!). it's one of the board's worst features. I realize we're all desperate for Seahawks news all the time, but it sometimes seems like we're exceedingly stupid when that "news" comes out. We tend not to treat reports critically, which is silly when thinking about a sport where there is so much media misinformation. And then you have the optimists and pessimists, who chose what to believe based on whether or not the story supports their belief that the Seahawks are the bestest team ever and never make any mistakes or that the Seahawks are destined for doom and a 3-13 season.

Beast's agent? That's a credible source? Was he with Beast when he boarded the bus?

I never said I believed in the rumor about Beast. The point I was trying to make was that I am not going to be selective in what rumors I believe and which ones I don't simply because I don't like hearing one rumor vs. another.

 

[volsunghawk]

I'm not going to be selective and believe some rumors, like Harvin getting into a fight with Tate, yet dismiss others, like Beast almost refusing to board the bus, simply because I don't like what the latter implies, ie a locker room split.

Then how about going to the sources that have come out since those initial rumors? The Harvin/Tate rumor was confirmed by Michael Robinson, who said he broke up the fight. The Lynch rumor was denied by both his agent and Warren Moon. Maybe don't believe any rumors until there's some validation of whether they hold any water?

This board has a pretty lengthy and almost comical history of hysterical speculation and attempts at mind-reading (oh, Earl Thomas must hate it here since he didn't smile enough when the Seahawks were on the phone with him during the draft!). it's one of the board's worst features. I realize we're all desperate for Seahawks news all the time, but it sometimes seems like we're exceedingly stupid when that "news" comes out. We tend not to treat reports critically, which is silly when thinking about a sport where there is so much media misinformation. And then you have the optimists and pessimists, who chose what to believe based on whether or not the story supports their belief that the Seahawks are the bestest team ever and never make any mistakes or that the Seahawks are destined for doom and a 3-13 season.

Beast's agent? That's a credible source? Was he with Beast when he boarded the bus?

I never said I believed in the rumor about Beast. The point I was trying to make was that I am not going to be selective in what rumors I believe and which ones I don't simply because I don't like hearing one rumor vs. another.

I'd argue that Lynch's agent is a far more credible source than an anonymous one.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I remember AP sent a " We just traded our best player" tweet after Percy was traded to us.

Let's overreacted with the media.

Just because we all overreact doesn't mean there isn't some truth with these rumors.

I always believe in the old adage "prior history dictates future behavior." The prior history in these cases is Lynch's and Harvin's prior history of being irrational and problems when they feel slighted or disrespected.

So sorry players, I believe that Lynch was acting up on the plane when he found out Harvin was traded.........and I believe that Percy likes to punch people when he feels disrespected, because THAT'S their prior history.

Now if the rumor was Russell refused to get on the plane? Or Sherm? Or ET? Or Bennett? Nope, wouldn't believe that because that's not these guy's character. But Marshawn and Percy? Yep, right up their alley to do something like what the rumors claim they did.

 

[Popeyejones]

Pete treated Percy with kid gloves.

Pete treats everyone with kid's gloves.* It's why when a "player's coach" guy has a lot of success everyone in the league is itching to play for him, but also why when it goes south for a "player's coach" guy it can go south really quickly.**

I think as a general rule, all other things being equal, the "player's coach" guys are more effective with good teams (when everything is good it's actually great), whereas as the father-figure strong disciplinarian types are more effective with struggling teams (keeping them from fraying during adversity). Trending too far with either of these styles doesn't work in the long-term IMO.

I also don't think just cutting people who take too much rope is a solution, as a coach is a leader, the one giving the rope, and you can't make a successful team out of 53 guys who aren't only talented players, but also have the make-up to not grab a rope dangling in front of them.



*I know Hawks fans talk about the team having a lot of "personalities" (e.g. Lynch, Sherman, ADB, etc.), but EVERY team has a lot of "personalities", they're just usually quashed by the coach and F.O. (e.g. "you don't like talking to the media? Oh, well."; "You like screaming into microphones? cut it out."; "You felt like screaming at your QB on the sideline? we don't care, it simply won't be tolerated here.")

*Obviously not implying it IS going south for the Hawks, or will be any time soon.

 

[NorCalSeahawk]

If Percy refused to go back into the game (and wasn't legitimately hurt), then he was already a lost cause. Any person (in football or in any job) that wants that in their working environment just loves un-needed drama, You can still be friends with people and not work with them, sometimes certain situations don't work out for a company and they just have to move on to help the long term future of their business and team.

Percy is a great talent but that would be 2 for 2 when it comes to teams ditching him because he' s a problem and he seems to lack something when it comes to dealing with real life problems. I guess you can chalk it up to some type of sports privilege that some athletes seem to get with some success and money in their life.

 

[HawkWow]

I'm not going to be selective and believe some rumors, like Harvin getting into a fight with Tate, yet dismiss others, like Beast almost refusing to board the bus, simply because I don't like what the latter implies, ie a locker room split.

Then how about going to the sources that have come out since those initial rumors? The Harvin/Tate rumor was confirmed by Michael Robinson, who said he broke up the fight. The Lynch rumor was denied by both his agent and Warren Moon. Maybe don't believe any rumors until there's some validation of whether they hold any water?

This board has a pretty lengthy and almost comical history of hysterical speculation and attempts at mind-reading (oh, Earl Thomas must hate it here since he didn't smile enough when the Seahawks were on the phone with him during the draft!). it's one of the board's worst features. I realize we're all desperate for Seahawks news all the time, but it sometimes seems like we're exceedingly stupid when that "news" comes out. We tend not to treat reports critically, which is silly when thinking about a sport where there is so much media misinformation. And then you have the optimists and pessimists, who chose what to believe based on whether or not the story supports their belief that the Seahawks are the bestest team ever and never make any mistakes or that the Seahawks are destined for doom and a 3-13 season.

Beast's agent? That's a credible source? Was he with Beast when he boarded the bus?

I never said I believed in the rumor about Beast. The point I was trying to make was that I am not going to be selective in what rumors I believe and which ones I don't simply because I don't like hearing one rumor vs. another.

I'd argue that Lynch's agent is a far more credible source than an anonymous one.

Would you trust a priest who says Mary was a virgin over anonymous sources saying she wasn't?

I can't think of many people I'd believe less than a player's agent.

 

[volsunghawk]

Would you trust a priest who says Mary was a virgin over anonymous sources saying she wasn't?

I can't think of many people I'd believe less than a player's agent.

I have apples. Looks like you've got oranges. At least, that's what anonymous sources have told me.

 

[RiverDog]

I'd argue that Lynch's agent is a far more credible source than an anonymous one.

I'd trust a homeless drug dealer before I'd trust a player's agent.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Pete treats everyone with kid's gloves.* It's why when a "player's coach" guy has a lot of success everyone in the league is itching to play for him, but also why when it goes south for a "player's coach" guy it can go south really quickly.** .

Harbaugh's a no nonsense hard ass, why do his players get arrested for wielding guns at the airport, beating on their GF's and rumors of players hating to play for him and wanting him gone?

Carroll is no more lenient on his players when it comes to football than any other coach, he's just more diplomatic and positive in how he approaches being a coach..........and the Harvin situation reinforces his stern position. Do things my way, or you're gone.

If you were right, then Harvin would still be here, and so would guys like Brandon Browner, Antoine Winfield and Lendale White. Pete may be all rah rah positive I love everybody when it comes to his philosophy of coaching, but when it comes down to playing, he has zero tolerance for not being 100% about the team and busting your ass to get better.

 

[volsunghawk]

I'd argue that Lynch's agent is a far more credible source than an anonymous one.

I'd trust a homeless drug dealer before I'd trust a player's agent.

Good luck with that.

 

[pehawk]

I think as a general rule, all other things being equal, the "player's coach" guys are more effective with good teams (when everything is good it's actually great), whereas as the father-figure strong disciplinarian types are more effective with struggling teams (keeping them from fraying during adversity). Trending too far with either of these styles doesn't work in the long-term IMO.

.

Oh the irony in this post. Pete built the Seahawks, ground up. While Harbaugh on the other hand walked into a situation with talent, everywhere, exactly where you need it. I'm not dissing Harbaugh, by any stretch, he's a great coach. But your logic is simply flawed.

Pete inherited a bad team. As a Seahawks fan my entire life, I've seen plenty of bad teams. The one difference Pete brought, which I hadn't seen under ANY other coach, was their desire, toughness, will to win, "dawg", whatever you want to call it. Far more talented Seahawks team would lay down at the 1st sign of trouble. They'd succumb to the excuse of 10 AM or road games, so they'd lie down at even a hint of adversity. Holmgren's great teams would buckle if punched in the mouth.

You're reaching man.

XOXO

Cody Picket