Two-round mock draft & why Panthers O-line matters to SEA

[penihawk]

I would say we learned that dominate interior D-line play makes your edge rushers able to have their way when the qb has nowhere to step up or escape through the middle like Cam loves to do. Both teams had a better D than us this year and interior pressure and dominating the los is the reason. That needs to be addressed just as much as the OL.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

I respectfully disagree. Their mantra is Bigger, Faster, Stronger when putting together a team. It's not Faster, Smaller, Weaker /Short Arms. While yes anyone can look at NFL team rosters and find exceptions to their drafting philosophy but it doesn't mean they are going to start drafting small LB, CB, and RB.

Bobby Wagner at the combine: 6-0, 233lbs, 33 inch arms

Ryan Shazier at the combine: 6-1, 237lbs, 32.5 inch arms

I'm guessing you're willing to change your take in light of this?

I'm also not sure why you think Shazier is weaker. He's the picture of physicality, a born leader and hits like a sledgehammer.

After watching the Superbowl this should be given some extra thought. Disregarding your OT positions can cost you the big game.

Sure, if you're coming up against Von Miller, DeMarcus Ware, Sly Williams, Derek Wolfe and Malik Jackson and you keep fumbling the football.

Let's not forget the Panthers line conceded 33 sacks in 2015 -- as many as the Dallas Cowboys O-line with three first round picks. Seattle gave up 46 sacks in comparison with a top-ten pick playing left tackle.

It's about finding a chemistry and doing what is best for your team. Carolina's O-line strength is at center and right guard. The Seahawks need to improve their interior and the Panthers merely show that first round picks at tackle aren't a necessity.

 

[hawkfan68]

Ryan Kelly, C, Alabama, is rising among draft mocks. I think he's now being projected in the 1st round. He may be a good choice in the 1st rd for the Seahawks.

 

[SomersetHawk]

I respectfully disagree. Their mantra is Bigger, Faster, Stronger when putting together a team. It's not Faster, Smaller, Weaker /Short Arms. While yes anyone can look at NFL team rosters and find exceptions to their drafting philosophy but it doesn't mean they are going to start drafting small LB, CB, and RB.

Bobby Wagner at the combine: 6-0, 233lbs, 33 inch arms

Ryan Shazier at the combine: 6-1, 237lbs, 32.5 inch arms

I'm guessing you're willing to change your take in light of this?

I'm also not sure why you think Shazier is weaker. He's the picture of physicality, a born leader and hits like a sledgehammer.

Burn. I loved Shazier and think he'd already be a pro-bowler in Seattle.

Anyone seen any Antwione Williams tape? Man among boys at Georgia Southern, late round draft pick who put his own tape up on YouTube. Seems like an impressive young man too from what I can find out.

[youtube]FavqBNeNjHE[/youtube]

 

[Hasselbeck]

Broncos LT- Ryan Harris = 1.4M

Broncos RT-Michael Schofield = 650k

Their tackles were awful. Especially Schofield, who was basically like Britt at RT.

I think Russell's mobility allows us to get away with an Alvin Bailey/Gary Gilliam pairing, but its the interior part of the line that really took a massive step backwards in 2015 with the loss of Carpenter and Unger while trying to get Britt acclimated to guard and the experiments at center.

 

[Overseasfan]

Ryan Kelly, C, Alabama, is rising among draft mocks. I think he's now being projected in the 1st round. He may be a good choice in the 1st rd for the Seahawks.

Ryan Kelly was the #1 prospect at center before the Senior Bowl. The only reason Nick Martin took over was because he went to the Senior Bowl, while Kelly was one of three players to not accept the invite.

It's better to wait untill the combine and pro days to say which center is the best of the bunch.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

Ryan Kelly, C, Alabama, is rising among draft mocks. I think he's now being projected in the 1st round. He may be a good choice in the 1st rd for the Seahawks.

Ryan Kelly was the #1 prospect at center before the Senior Bowl. The only reason Nick Martin took over was because he went to the Senior Bowl, while Kelly was one of three players to not accept the invite.

It's better to wait untill the combine and pro days to say which center is the best of the bunch.

I think Jeremiah is the only one I've seen to project him that high. He's been in the mix for top OC -- but typically regarded as a 60-90 overall kind of player. Not so dominant that he's the undisputed #1.

Good tape. But he's not a physically dominating kind of prospect. A bit on the lighter side. The combine will crystallize his value somewhat. I would expect his measurables to be fairly generic. For certain, he's not the same athlete as Pouncey.

Also, Kelly could be hurt by the fact there are several similar OC types in this draft. Teams could well hold off on the position until later if they are even looking for a center. Positional value is very low -- so I don't think he goes before 50.

He looks like a quality starter for many years in the NFL. I wouldn't put a game changing talent expectation on him. And you need to have that if you're going in R1.

 

[pcbball12]

Ryan Kelly, C, Alabama, is rising among draft mocks. I think he's now being projected in the 1st round. He may be a good choice in the 1st rd for the Seahawks.

Ryan Kelly was the #1 prospect at center before the Senior Bowl. The only reason Nick Martin took over was because he went to the Senior Bowl, while Kelly was one of three players to not accept the invite.

It's better to wait untill the combine and pro days to say which center is the best of the bunch.

I think Jeremiah is the only one I've seen to project him that high. He's been in the mix for top OC -- but typically regarded as a 60-90 overall kind of player. Not so dominant that he's the undisputed #1.

Good tape. But he's not a physically dominating kind of prospect. A bit on the lighter side. The combine will crystallize his value somewhat. I would expect his measurables to be fairly generic. For certain, he's not the same athlete as Pouncey.

Also, Kelly could be hurt by the fact there are several similar OC types in this draft. Teams could well hold off on the position until later if they are even looking for a center. Positional value is very low -- so I don't think he goes before 50.

He looks like a quality starter for many years in the NFL. I wouldn't put a game changing talent expectation on him. And you need to have that if you're going in R1.

Completely agree about Kelly. I like him a lot as a C prospect, but like you said he is not a game changer. Good technique, anchors well in pass pro, but not a whole lot of power in run game. Will be a very solid starter. I think Nick Martin is much the same as Kelly. Very good technique, anchors well, gets good position in run game, but not a ton of power. He also will be a very solid starter. Heck, Tuerk is a nice prospect and has good movement skills for a C, but really struggles with power inside.

I'm also a very big fan of Jack Allen. He provides a little more pop in the run game and will maul you, anchors well. He is the guy I actually prefer, especially considering the price I think. It is a really good C class which is kind of rare. Would be OK with either one of those guys, but not sure I am completely fond of a 1st on one of those guys considering the talent that will be there at the DT position. Again, you get into the Need vs. BPA debate there.

 

[DavidSeven]

It's a problem, but it will likely continue to be a problem until Cable and PC/JS self-repudiate their OL process. Which tellingly, they have not. I'm expecting more of the same this year too (Justin Britt type picks). Sadly.

Scary spot to be in where you know the team needs to go high on OL, but you just can't trust the process they use to pick those players.

I remain skeptical that the team can scout these positions well. They can't seem to scout their own guys, much less guys who are in college. Every year, the team can't seem to decide if Sweezy is better than Moffitt, if Bowie is better than Carpenter, if Bailey is better than Bowie, if Gilliam is better than Britt, if Lewis is better than Nowak, if Nowak is better than a ham sandwhich. Constant waffling on our own guys, even deep into the playoffs. One day Bowie is contention for starting RT, the next day he's cut. Same story with LJP, Nowak, etc., etc. If we know that the team struggles in evaluating its own OL players, then how on earth can we expect them pluck studs off college tape? Just seems so unlikely.

Going auto-draft and relying on media mocks (like Rob's) might not be a worst approach for OL.

 

[purpleneer]

Let's not forget the Panthers line conceded 33 sacks in 2015 -- as many as the Dallas Cowboys O-line with three first round picks. Seattle gave up 46 sacks in comparison with a top-ten pick playing left tackle.

It's about finding a chemistry and doing what is best for your team. Carolina's O-line strength is at center and right guard. The Seahawks need to improve their interior and the Panthers merely show that first round picks at tackle aren't a necessity.

Yup, and no plan is going to have the same effectiveness for many teams or for very long. I'm still of the opinion that Carolina's o-line looked better in the regular season than they are and the Hawks' isn't as bad nor as good as the varying offensive production made them look. It's important for a team to understand their own strengths and weaknesses and make decisions accordingly.
It seems to me that Cable is having trouble adjusting to the changing times in that guys come in needing more development than they used to and the practice limitations greatly reduce that development time. It also seems ridiculous to be so locked in to type preferences at the guard spots, which kinda makes a stated affinity for versatility ring hollow.

 

[cover-2]

I respectfully disagree. Their mantra is Bigger, Faster, Stronger when putting together a team. It's not Faster, Smaller, Weaker /Short Arms. While yes anyone can look at NFL team rosters and find exceptions to their drafting philosophy but it doesn't mean they are going to start drafting small LB, CB, and RB.

I'm also certain they would've drafted Ryan Shazier in 2014 given the chance. He's virtually their dream linebacker. He's 6-1 and 225lbs.

Bobby Wagner at the combine: 6-0, 233lbs, 33 inch arms

Ryan Shazier at the combine: 6-1, 237lbs, 32.5 inch arms

I'm guessing you're willing to change your take in light of this?

I'm also not sure why you think Shazier is weaker. He's the picture of physicality, a born leader and hits like a sledgehammer.

You initially said Shazier was 225lbs and at that size he would be the ideal Seahawks LB. Now you have him listed 12lbs heavier at 237lbs. A 237lb LB is not small, and I would not have argued against it. That extra 12lbs of muscle obviously makes a LB stronger giving him more strength to take on and shed an offensive lineman.

I never said or considered Wagner undersized. For me undersized are LB's that are weigh under 230lbs, and 6ft or under LB with 31inch or shorter arms.

I'm more debating on wether the Seahawks would draft guys like Deion Jones who is listed at 219lbs and Erick Striker (whom many Seahawks fans seem to like) is 5-11 228lbs with 31 inch arms. Sticker frame is maxed out and for me he is a SS for the Seahawks. I'm uncertain if Jones can put on 15lbs to get up to around 235lbs without losing his quickness and speed.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

You initially said Shazier was 225lbs

When?

 

[cover-2]

IMO I don't think the Seahawks would draft an undersized LB in rounds 1 through 4. So I'm not a fan of taking a safety sized LB in round 2.

I'm also certain they would've drafted Ryan Shazier in 2014 given the chance. He's virtually their dream linebacker. He's 6-1 and 225lbs.

Here

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

That's what he's listed at for the Steelers (their preference for him to be that size). He was 4lbs bigger than Wagner at the combine and even if he played at 225lbs would only be slightly lighter.

He is/was basically their ideal for the position whatever his weight.

 

[cover-2]

That's what he's listed at for the Steelers (their preference for him to be that size). He was 4lbs bigger than Wagner at the combine and even if he played at 225lbs would only be slightly lighter.

He is/was basically their ideal for the position whatever his weight.

Oh, now that is cleared up. We are going to have to agree to disagree on what size/weight they are looking for at LB.

Wagner has bulked up since we drafted him, he is listed at 241lbs.

IMO Notre Dame LB Jaylon Smith is their prototype LB. Smith is 6-3 240.

 

[firebee]

That's what he's listed at for the Steelers (their preference for him to be that size). He was 4lbs bigger than Wagner at the combine and even if he played at 225lbs would only be slightly lighter.

He is/was basically their ideal for the position whatever his weight.

Oh, now that is cleared up. We are going to have to agree to disagree on what size/weight they are looking for at LB.

Wagner has bulked up since we drafted him, he is listed at 241lbs.

IMO Notre Dame LB Jaylon Smith is their prototype LB. Smith is 6-3 240.

Actually... Last i checked Jaylon Smith was a little lighter than that... around 230-235, but I do agree... If he's there, he's likely our 1st pick. At 6'3" he has the length and athleticism mixed with the production our FO keys on and he could also put on an extra 10 lbs in an NFL strength and conditioning program without effecting his agility and athleticism much. He's one of the only players in the draft I could see us staying at #26 to grab if he's still there. If he's taken before then, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see us trade down due to the number of quality linemen that are available. This class is loaded with linemen on both sides of the ball. LBs.... Not so much.

Things kind of get sketchy at LB... You're looking at SPARQ guys that don't have the production to back their skillset or production guys that probably won't have great SPARQ scores... or guys that just don't seem to have the body type our FO keys on for the outside. We should definitely be keeping our eyes open for production guys that perform better than expected at the combines or pro days, as they will likely become targets for us at LB.

As it stands right now... Jaylon Smith seems to be the guy we'd key on. Would be nice to see Leonard Floyd come into the combines with some extra mass without losing his athleticism. He could definitely become a target if he filled out a little bit. If Darron Lee and Fackwell put up good numbers at the combine on an all around basis, they'd probably become likely targets for us as well... It's all about the Pro Days and Combine now. That's the only thing left to move players up and down the boards. The gamefilm and game stats are already on the books.

 

[thegreeninyoureye]

English,

I like it that's the guy I want the Seahawks to get first round. Second round we go DT someone that can get push up the middle.

 

[CamanoIslandJQ]

Over the years, the Combine AVERAGE size of OLB has been approx. 6-2/240.

per: http://www.mockdraftable.com/position/19/
6-1.92 (6'-2") 240.14-lbs, 32.52-arms, 9.66-hands, 1.62-avg 10-yd split, 4.70-40yd dash

 

[McGruff]

Over the years, the Combine AVERAGE size of OLB has been approx. 6-2/240.

per: http://www.mockdraftable.com/position/19/
6-1.92 (6'-2") 240.14-lbs, 32.52-arms, 9.66-hands, 1.62-avg 10-yd split, 4.70-40yd dash

What does that mean for us?