Warren Moon: Seahawks still have a Super Bowl XLIX hangover

jeremiah

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
771
Reaction score
261
The players need to remember this is a game, and get back to having fun. The work outs, and the practices is where the players need to concentrate, let the game flow.

Maybe the entire team needs to get together somewhere with a few cases of alcohol, and a kilo of some heavy weed... off season of course....Just joking, but MAN...just relax brah...
 

BostonBlackie

New member
Joined
Nov 14, 2016
Messages
95
Reaction score
0
SoulfishHawk":29rfi0dw said:
Hawks went to the Super Bowl 3 times in 10 seasons. That's pretty damn good these days, especially w/free agency etc.

Yes it is.

From the 1996 season through the 2016 season, 20 years, the Patriots went 8 times, and won 5 of them. That's batting .250. It isn't easy to both get there and win, even for the best teams in the league.

Then there are 9 teams that have never won a SB. So when you talk about against the field, that really doesn't include the whole league. Every year you're setting yourself up to be in position to play only a small group of teams. So when you get to the SB chances are you have to beat one of the few really superior organizations. Lessor teams can't do that. Consequently, over the years, you wind up with the Packers, the Niners, the Steelers, the Cowboys, the Patriots, etc., during their runs, winning the lions share of the SBs.
 

Tical21

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
5,541
Reaction score
82
They are NEVER going to get over it. Nor should they.

It doesn't mean they aren't focused on winning. It does mean that they have to find some way to find their edge and confidence. Not sure if it is possible, but they're trying.
 

hawkfan68

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
10,002
Reaction score
1,696
Location
Sammamish, WA
jeremiah":2ah2cgaw said:
The players need to remember this is a game, and get back to having fun. The work outs, and the practices is where the players need to concentrate, let the game flow.

Maybe the entire team needs to get together somewhere with a few cases of alcohol, and a kilo of some heavy weed... off season of course....Just joking, but MAN...just relax brah...

To players and others that are involved it's not just a game. It's their livelihood. It's easy to say it's just a game and detach when you're not part of the event or process of getting to the superbowl. There was a lot of blood, sweat, and tears shed to get to that point. That's not easy to just let go.
 

Seymour

Active member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
7,459
Reaction score
22
Tical21":p61isfcd said:
They are NEVER going to get over it. Nor should they.

It doesn't mean they aren't focused on winning. It does mean that they have to find some way to find their edge and confidence. Not sure if it is possible, but they're trying.

Seems more like you are defining forgetting it not getting over it. For me, getting over it means that it no longer has negative impact or is causing other issues to you as a professional. They will never forget it for sure, but once it's been accepted and let go, it can only make them stronger from there forward.
 

WmHBonney

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
2,746
Reaction score
1,029
It's kind of hard to get over it when they see he who shall not be named on the practice field every day and on the sidelines on game day. :rumble:
 

sdog1981

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
3,367
Reaction score
240
5/8= .625 or 62.5%


The Pats took about 4 seasons to get off of 18-1
 
OP
OP
Hyak

Hyak

Active member
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
789
Reaction score
46
Location
Covington, WA
I'm sure that most people invested in the team won't ever forget it. That said, it's a HUGE problem when you let history define the present and the future. Pointing to that every time this group fails to win is just a loser mentality.

Each game and season is full of new opportunities. I'm repeating myself but it really just puzzles me to see guys so competitive and cerebral fold up related to letting this affect anything going on in 2017.

I thought Peter King has some interesting points in his latest MMQB on this subject

]http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/29/nfl-memorial-day-notes-peter-king-richard-sherman-seahawks

• The Seth Wickersham/Seahawks story. The respected Wickersham reported from a slew of sources, basically, that Seattle cornerback Richard Sherman cannot get over the game-losing interception from the Super Bowl 27 months ago, and his frustration continues to point mostly at coach Pete Carroll for enabling the play-call at the New England one-yard line, and at quarterback Russell Wilson for throwing the interception.

I’m going to re-live the key play in a moment, but I’ll just say this: Those who live in the past are condemned to repeat it. I have not spoken to Wickersham’s sources, but I do not doubt the veracity of his story. And if Sherman continues—as he did last year, when he verbally harangued offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell on the sidelines of a game—to bring up that losing play, Seattle should trade him after the season. (I’d say now, but without significant reinforcements at the position on a contending team, losing Sherman would be a major blow to going far in the playoffs this year.)

One other point: This is, in part, Carroll’s doing. He has created a don’t-worry-be-happy atmosphere in which it’s almost okay to be insolent because it’s part of his freedom environment. It’s fine when you’re winning, not so fine when you’re not dominating. Now, I don’t think the Seahawks will trade Sherman or let him go this year, because they’re a cornerback-needy team, and premier cornerbacks like Sherman are rare. My guess: Sherman will be on his best behavior this season (at least as it relates to this incident, and further disruptive sideline incidents) because he knows all media and team eyes will be on him because of this story. But 2018? Nothing is guaranteed.


• The Seahawks play in question. So I went back over the weekend and watched the play in question a few times on NFL Game Rewind. Actually I watched four plays from New England’s Super Bowl win over Seattle. Seattle ran four snaps on third-and-one or third-and-two in that Super Bowl. On three of those, Marshawn Lynch ran the ball—for zero, three and zero yards. (Wilson threw an incompletion on the fourth third-and-short play.) On those three Lynch runs, New England didn’t have its full package of run-stoppers in the game. On each, 335-pound Vince Wilfork and 325-pound Sealver Siliga were on the defensive front with lighter defensive linemen—and, in fact, Lynch was stopped for no gain on the first of those plays, when New England had only two down linemen (Wilfork and Siliga) on the field.

Now to the ultimate play. Second and goal from the New England four-foot line, with 26 seconds to play and Seattle with one timeout left. When Wilson came to the line, he saw this across from him, from his left to right: Wilfork, 335, on the left tackle … Siliga, 325, on the left guard … Alan Branch, 324, on the right guard … Chris Jones, 309, on the right tackle. On the three previous short-yardage runs in the game, Seattle faced New England alignments with two defensive tackles in the game; now there were four. If Bevell wanted to call Lynch’s number here, once, no one would have faulted him. That’s his money back, on the money play of the season. But would he have gotten in? We’ll never know, but based on the mediocrity of the offensive line and New England’s approach, I’d say it’s highly unlikely Lynch would have scored.

So let’s say he doesn’t score. Now it’s third-and-goal, with either one or two plays left. (Seattle would likely have called time after the second-down failure, and thrown on third down. An incompletion would have given Wilson a fourth-down try.) In the end, Seattle chose the element of surprise, throwing on second down, and Wilson’s throw for Ricardo Lockette was a millisecond late and Malcolm Butler made the play of his life to collide with Lockette at the same time he picked off the ball at the goal line.

The conclusion: No one can bitch if Bevell calls the running play on second down. But I feel strongly that Seattle would have had to throw it or get a fluky Wilson scramble to get the ball in the end zone to win—regardless of down.
 

BostonBlackie

New member
Joined
Nov 14, 2016
Messages
95
Reaction score
0
sdog1981":1i8xjq5z said:
5/8= .625 or 62.5%

Yeah, but they won 5 SBs in the last 20 years, that's .250. Which is about right. There are only a handful of teams every year, 4 or 5, that really are able to go all the way. So if you can stay in that group for 20 years, your number should come up every 4 to 5 years, because you're sharing victories with the other top organizations. So that's the goal, set up an organization that can stay in the top 5 year after year. You can't hang onto the past, and stay on top. A few years after the Patriots won 3 in 4 years, they took down all the pictures, in the team area, of players who were on those teams in order to emphasize looking forward, not backwards. "Yesterday is dead and gone, and tomorrows out of site." Players play for right now, and the organization sets up the future.
 
OP
OP
Hyak

Hyak

Active member
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
789
Reaction score
46
Location
Covington, WA
BostonBlackie":2jrda2h3 said:
SoulfishHawk":2jrda2h3 said:
Hawks went to the Super Bowl 3 times in 10 seasons. That's pretty damn good these days, especially w/free agency etc.

Yes it is.

From the 1996 season through the 2016 season, 20 years, the Patriots went 8 times, and won 5 of them. That's batting .250. It isn't easy to both get there and win, even for the best teams in the league.

Then there are 9 teams that have never won a SB. So when you talk about against the field, that really doesn't include the whole league. Every year you're setting yourself up to be in position to play only a small group of teams. So when you get to the SB chances are you have to beat one of the few really superior organizations. Lessor teams can't do that. Consequently, over the years, you wind up with the Packers, the Niners, the Steelers, the Cowboys, the Patriots, etc., during their runs, winning the lions share of the SBs.

I tend to look at things from 1994 on as that's when they implemented the salary cap and true free agency across the NFL, which helped support parity.

In that span, 70% of the SB appearances in the AFC have been by NE (8 times), Denver (4 times), and the Steelers (4 times). The Colts and Ravens were the only other teams to make it more than once (2 times each). That's 20 of 23 years among those 5 teams. Outliers were SD, Tennessee, and Oakland.

In the NFC, it's more spread out as 13 teams made it at least once but the leaders in appearances were the Giants, Packers, and Seahawks (3 times each), which represents 40% of the time. 4 teams made it twice in this span - 49ers, Falcons, Rams, and Panthers.

That all said, 20 or 23 years is a huge span with different core groups/coaches/GMs. NE is definitely the anomaly with the tenure of Belichick and Brady but the early 2000s teams were not the same as the teams that lost to the Giants nor the teams that have won 2 of the last 3.

You look at core team runs with multiple appearances in the time span:

GB - 1996/1997 (1-1)
DEN - 1997/1998 (2-0)
STL - 1999/2001 (1-1)
NE - 2001/2003/2004 (3-0)
PIT - 2008/2010 (1-1)
SEA - 2013/2014 (1-1)
DEN - 2013/2015 (1-1)
NE - 2014/2016 (2-0)

I omitted the 2007/2011 Giants and Patriots as the teams were pretty different aside from the HC and QB.
 
OP
OP
Hyak

Hyak

Active member
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
789
Reaction score
46
Location
Covington, WA
For Pete Carroll era specifics (2010-2016) encompassing 7 years, NE has the most SB appearances with 3 (2-1) followed by Seattle and Denver with 2 (1-1 each). No other team has made it more than once.
 

sdog1981

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
3,367
Reaction score
240
JTB":15gqlcsx said:
I'm sure that most people invested in the team won't ever forget it. That said, it's a HUGE problem when you let history define the present and the future. Pointing to that every time this group fails to win is just a loser mentality.

Each game and season is full of new opportunities. I'm repeating myself but it really just puzzles me to see guys so competitive and cerebral fold up related to letting this affect anything going on in 2017.

I thought Peter King has some interesting points in his latest MMQB on this subject


King gets it. I thought they would do a minor reshuffle of the players on the team after last season and it looks like they are starting to do that with the draft. The key players on this team are signed through 2018 but I think the only current names that will be with the 2020 Seahawks will be Wilson, Baldwin, Clark, Wagner, Thomas.
 
OP
OP
Hyak

Hyak

Active member
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
789
Reaction score
46
Location
Covington, WA
sdog1981":2k4mka26 said:
King gets it. I thought they would do a minor reshuffle of the players on the team after last season and it looks like they are starting to do that with the draft. The key players on this team are signed through 2018 but I think the only current names that will be with the 2020 Seahawks will be Wilson, Baldwin, Clark, Wagner, Thomas.

Agree that we will begin to see a shift in the core guys as some of them hit the wrong side of 30. The key is being in position to churn the core with effective drafting/FA moves and player development once they get into the program.

I certainly see the 2017 draft as a hedge against the LOB for 2018/2019.
 

BostonBlackie

New member
Joined
Nov 14, 2016
Messages
95
Reaction score
0
JTB":2azihl9c said:
BostonBlackie":2azihl9c said:
SoulfishHawk":2azihl9c said:
Hawks went to the Super Bowl 3 times in 10 seasons. That's pretty damn good these days, especially w/free agency etc.

Yes it is.

From the 1996 season through the 2016 season, 20 years, the Patriots went 8 times, and won 5 of them. That's batting .250. It isn't easy to both get there and win, even for the best teams in the league.

Then there are 9 teams that have never won a SB. So when you talk about against the field, that really doesn't include the whole league. Every year you're setting yourself up to be in position to play only a small group of teams. So when you get to the SB chances are you have to beat one of the few really superior organizations. Lessor teams can't do that. Consequently, over the years, you wind up with the Packers, the Niners, the Steelers, the Cowboys, the Patriots, etc., during their runs, winning the lions share of the SBs.

I tend to look at things from 1994 on as that's when they implemented the salary cap and true free agency across the NFL, which helped support parity.

In that span, 70% of the SB appearances in the AFC have been by NE (8 times), Denver (4 times), and the Steelers (4 times). The Colts and Ravens were the only other teams to make it more than once (2 times each). That's 20 of 23 years among those 5 teams. Outliers were SD, Tennessee, and Oakland.

In the NFC, it's more spread out as 13 teams made it at least once but the leaders in appearances were the Giants, Packers, and Seahawks (3 times each), which represents 40% of the time. 4 teams made it twice in this span - 49ers, Falcons, Rams, and Panthers.

That all said, 20 or 23 years is a huge span with different core groups/coaches/GMs. NE is definitely the anomaly with the tenure of Belichick and Brady but the early 2000s teams were not the same as the teams that lost to the Giants nor the teams that have won 2 of the last 3.

You look at core team runs with multiple appearances in the time span:

GB - 1996/1997 (1-1)
DEN - 1997/1998 (2-0)
STL - 1999/2001 (1-1)
NE - 2001/2003/2004 (3-0)
PIT - 2008/2010 (1-1)
SEA - 2013/2014 (1-1)
DEN - 2013/2015 (1-1)
NE - 2014/2016 (2-0)

I omitted the 2007/2011 Giants and Patriots as the teams were pretty different aside from the HC and QB.

Yeah. Anyway, it's interesting. The reason I post here is because the Seahawks are interesting. They're good. They're really good. There's no question about that. So, what's going to happen? It's just interesting to watch. I have no interest in following the Cowboys, or the Raiders, or the Doncos, or the Steelers. So besides the Patriots, obviously, only the Seahawks hold my interest right now.
 
OP
OP
Hyak

Hyak

Active member
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
789
Reaction score
46
Location
Covington, WA
^^^^

Conversely, I think NE under BB is fascinating in how they have been able to sustain their success over a really long period of time in the salary cap era. Even in the SB appearance gaps, they made it to the conference championship 11 times in 17 years.

BB's ability to consistently put together an ever changing roster that can compete for championships is amazing. I'd argue that he's the best GM and HC in football by a wide margin.

Ironically, however, they are a couple of amazing plays away from being 7 time champs yet a few plays away from being 2-5 in SB's.
 

jeremiah

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
771
Reaction score
261
Of course it is more than a game to the players. It is their life, their pride, their blood sweat and tears. It still comes down to one thing, play the game for fun, or go home. Once you lose the perspective that is just a game, and there are many things more important in life than winning a championship, you will struggle with everything. The Seahawks are holding on too tight, when all they have to do is let it flow. JMO.

You know what they call guys who play "tight"? Chokers. If it was Joe Montana at the goal line, there would have been no INT. They would have won the game. WHY? Because he understood it was a game and you are supposed to have fun, not necessarily because he was a better QB. He was a better clutch player though, he played with joy.
 

Thunderhawk

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
682
Reaction score
2
This was Kearley's reaction thread immediately after our loss in XLIX:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=107958&p=1571512#p1571512

He thought the team would recover and the players would get over it. A lot of us disagreed, including me. In order to fully move on there needed to be accountability. There wasn't. No heads rolled, not even Bevell's. Thus the turd could not be flushed from the water pipe. It still stinks.

I don't blame Sherm for not letting it go. I respect that it mattered that much to him. If Pete had dumped Bevell, as he should have, guys like Lynch and Sherman would have been good soldiers. Instead, they were constantly reminded of the 'dumbest call in sports history' every time they walked passed the guy. Of course they acted out. They're not headed to the hall of fame because losing is okay to them; infinitely worse losing a Super Bowl - especially like that.

In summation, props to any player still pissed and boooooooooooo Bevell and the dolts that defended him. Whether he is a competant OC was only ever half the issue. Politically he was poison and Pete should have shitcanned that bozo .03 seconds after the interception.
 

BostonBlackie

New member
Joined
Nov 14, 2016
Messages
95
Reaction score
0
JTB":2e2ecyr5 said:
^^^^

Ironically, however, they are a couple of amazing plays away from being 7 time champs yet a few plays away from being 2-5 in SB's.


That's right. You gotta get there and then play like hell, and hope more things go for you then against you.
 

Siouxhawk

New member
Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Messages
3,776
Reaction score
0
Thunderhawk":2o42g0aq said:
This was Kearley's reaction thread immediately after our loss in XLIX:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=107958&p=1571512#p1571512

He thought the team would recover and the players would get over it. A lot of us disagreed, including me. In order to fully move on there needed to be accountability. There wasn't. No heads rolled, not even Bevell's. Thus the turd could not be flushed from the water pipe. It still stinks.

I don't blame Sherm for not letting it go. I respect that it mattered that much to him. If Pete had dumped Bevell, as he should have, guys like Lynch and Sherman would have been good soldiers. Instead, they were constantly reminded of the 'dumbest call in sports history' every time they walked passed the guy. Of course they acted out. They're not headed to the hall of fame because losing is okay to them; infinitely worse losing a Super Bowl - especially like that.

In summation, props to any player still pissed and boooooooooooo Bevell and the dolts that defended him. Whether he is a competant OC was only ever half the issue. Politically he was poison and Pete should have shitcanned that bozo .03 seconds after the interception.
Your kind of reasoning would be that followed by loser teams like the Browns and Niners. The Hawks braintrust and organization is so much smarter than that and the success they've had since is justifiable proof.
 
Top