Warren Moon: Seahawks still have a Super Bowl XLIX hangover

[brimsalabim]

Nut up or leave.

 

[Hyak]

I think having some division and competition within the units is fine and probably normal when one unit is generally better than the other one - especially when the team loses games like 9-3 or 14-5.

I'm sure that Sherman is not alone in that frustration. At the same time, the way he went about it so publicly last year is just counterproductive, especially when you account for the challenges the offense had with injuries and young personnel some of which is a byproduct of keeping the defensive core together. Kind of like how the defense gets an asterisk for the SB 49 performance because of all of the injuries going into and during the game. That said, it doesn't change the fact that they gave up 28 points and failed to protect a 10 point lead.

The offense is far from perfect in this run of excellence but the defense isn't easier. Last 4 playoff losses - 29 points allowed per game whereas over the same seasons they gave up an average of 16.5 per game (1136 points in 69 games during 2012, 2014, 2015, and 2016).

Of course, none of that means dick even 2017. Each season lives on it's own merits.

 

[TwistedHusky]

First thing that needs to be said people are not rational creatures, they are emotional creatures.

As an example, watch the dance being done by the fans here.

1st round, it was a few people suggesting that there might be a rift developing between the defense and offense. A whole lot of people rose up and insisted this was crazy, the person was projecting/speculating and nothing of the sort could be the case.

2nd round, articles started to come out sharing this was exactly what was happening. A whole group of people rose up and started insisting this was crazy and clearly this one 'disgruntled' player that we needed to get rid of.

3rd round, ESPN article - more people on the team suggesting the very same thing that people were calling the OPs in the 1st round out for. Reporters are being accused of making up information instead.

4th round, more reporters speaking to current players that echo those same accusations.

5th round, now people are posting about how the players are 'wrong' and they 'need to get over it'. When before the statements were how 'ridiculous' it would be to even suggest that the defense is mad at the offense.

So the reality is that whether it is anyone's 'fault' is immaterial. Perception is reality and some of the very important defensive players are bothered by this. It will affect them until we find someone to burn for it.

And until someone burns, there will never be recovery. Not because anyone is at fault, but because human nature demands a sacrifice.

So we have Pete, Wilson and Bevell, since Lockette is no longer here and nobody really cares about Kearse. Pick the one you throw on the fire, but if we lose Pete we lose the best coach we ever had. If we lose Wilson, we a good QB in a league where winning is predicated on having a strong QB.

Ideally we don't wait for all our players to get too old and lose their greatness before we figure it out.

 

[Seymour]

Well if it's just a matter of burning someone, I'll nominate Bevell. :twisted: 8)

 

[BostonBlackie]

So this is kind of a chicken and egg thing. Winning usually overrides any personality issues. So which came first? Did the loss in the SB, and resulting dissatisfaction, cause the team to go from 13-3, 12-4, to 10-6, 10-5-1? Or did the reduction in wins cause the personality problems that were already there, to become more prominent?

 

[TwistedHusky]

My point is, while the SB hangover is irrational, and might not be grounded in reality, reality is subjective.

And a perfect illustration of this is the irrational emotional defense against what started as a trickle and has become a torrent of whispers, news and rumors regarding the defense being upset with the offense.

It seems like something that should be expected, but instead people kept erecting reasons why this could never be, or could be but must be this one player's fault, or might be but clearly is just misguided, etc. Because acknowledging this is an issue would acknowledge that there is an obstacle keeping this team from winning.

Which destroys the delusion that this team is poised for a SB run.

The problem is that you usually cannot solve a problem until you first acknowledge it exists in the first place.

This team needs to first face the reality that it has divisions. It needs to face why. And it needs to remove the reminders that allow those divisions to fester and multiply. (Sherman is not that reminder BTW)

 

[Siouxhawk]

Sounds like this is just a bunch of gossip that really doesn't mean squat when it comes time to performing on the field. Pete said as much today. If anything, I believe our players will present a unified front that will be more than lip service. They will come together as a team and that will lead to a nice awakening and fun season ahead.

The only thing that really matters is health and adequate offensive line play and if we get that, we'll instantly be a Super Bowl contender.

 

[Seymour]

Sounds like this is just a bunch of gossip that really doesn't mean squat when it comes time to performing on the field. Pete said as much today. If anything, I believe our players will present a unified front that will be more than lip service. They will come together as a team and that will lead to a nice awakening and fun season ahead.

The only thing that really matters is health and adequate offensive line play and if we get that, we'll instantly be a Super Bowl contender.

I believe that will happen as well, but it only will happen as long as they are winning. We start losing games we should win, and the finger pointing will start all over, and prob. worse than ever.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Sounds like this is just a bunch of gossip that really doesn't mean squat when it comes time to performing on the field. Pete said as much today. If anything, I believe our players will present a unified front that will be more than lip service. They will come together as a team and that will lead to a nice awakening and fun season ahead.

The only thing that really matters is health and adequate offensive line play and if we get that, we'll instantly be a Super Bowl contender.

I believe that will happen as well, but it only will happen as long as they are winning. We start losing games we should win, and the finger pointing will start all over, and prob. worse than ever.

Sure. And that again is typical of most NFL locker rooms across the land. Look at the toxic environments recently in Miami and the Jets. Unless you're flat dab in the middle of a rebuilding process, there shouldn't be any harmony when you're losing.

But we're not built to lose and that's where the rubber meets the road in this whole discussion. OUR PLAYERS HAVE A WINNING MINDSET. They don't let any petty differences get in the way of that sort of thinking. It's their winning edge and renders all this soap opera stuff useless.

 

[Hyak]

So this is kind of a chicken and egg thing. Winning usually overrides any personality issues. So which came first? Did the loss in the SB, and resulting dissatisfaction, cause the team to go from 13-3, 12-4, to 10-6, 10-5-1? Or did the reduction in wins cause the personality problems that were already there, to become more prominent?

That's a good point.

The 2013 SB winning team was by far the most talented and deep team in this run. No DL played more than 58% of the time and the secondary depth was unbelievable.

The 2012 and 2014 teams were close but DL depth wasn't there to the extent of 2013. 2014 also saw a major hit at WR and TE as Tate had left in FA, Harvin imploded, and Miller missed most of the year at TE.

2015 and 2016 teams had more holes than 2014 roster wise. Maxwell left. Lane was hurt. Injuries affected some core guys.

Meanwhile, during this time, the Seahawks drafts in 2013 and 2014 were poor so new depth was not as good as on prior teams when they were nailing the draft.

I think the division became a bigger issue after the first SB myself and before the SB loss. I think that became a lightning rod for the defense's position albeit the position point is full of holes and emotion as opposed to logic.

 

[Hyak]

My point is, while the SB hangover is irrational, and might not be grounded in reality, reality is subjective.

And a perfect illustration of this is the irrational emotional defense against what started as a trickle and has become a torrent of whispers, news and rumors regarding the defense being upset with the offense.

It seems like something that should be expected, but instead people kept erecting reasons why this could never be, or could be but must be this one player's fault, or might be but clearly is just misguided, etc. Because acknowledging this is an issue would acknowledge that there is an obstacle keeping this team from winning.

Which destroys the delusion that this team is poised for a SB run.

The problem is that you usually cannot solve a problem until you first acknowledge it exists in the first place.

This team needs to first face the reality that it has divisions. It needs to face why. And it needs to remove the reminders that allow those divisions to fester and multiply. (Sherman is not that reminder BTW)

In this regard, the Mike Freeman article was interesting as none of those veterans he talked to seemed to think the divisions impacted play on the field. Maybe it's just plain denial but it's also possible as Pete runs a different kind of ship.

They may see it as competition that's healthy as opposed to a problem.

That said, Sherman is the poster boy for this based on his actions last year during and after the Rams game. That's the only reason this is still an issue at least publicly.

None of this truly goes away unless this core wins another SB. That's true whether Bevel is a sacrificial lamb or not.

 

[idahohawk]

I hope all the people that laughed and said "no way" on the Twitters when I suggested this the last 2 seasons read this. It is real, and it sucks. Hopefully they can all get past it with a fast start this season & roll into the playoffs.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ahawks-still-have-a-super-bowl-xlix-hangover/

We know it's out there. Interesting to see Warren, who is close to the team, with these comments:

“They are still having a hangover from two years ago, if you can believe it or not, about losing that Super Bowl in the last minute with the interception on the one-yard line,” Moon recently told Brian Webber and Kordell Stewart of NFL No Huddle on TuneIn. “And with a lot of guys, it just kind of rubbed them the wrong way and they just haven’t gotten over it. This team will not be able to move on and really do what they want to do which is win another Super Bowl unless they can somehow put that behind them. There are certain guys on the team that just haven’t been able to do that and until they are able to do that they are going to continue to keep having a very good football team but a team that is going to probably come up short of their goals because of not being able to let go of the past and letting those things become a hindrance to their success.”

“I think you just can’t have these negative things in the back of your mind,” Moon said. “You have to be focused and be all in on what’s going on in front of you and not worrying about what’s behind you because those just hinder your teams success. It can become a huge distraction. It can become something that separates your football team and you don’t need that when your trying to go against some of the best football teams in the league and trying to unseat them as either NFC champions or Super Bowl champions. You definitely have to make sure everybody’s minds are clear and focused on what the goal is at hand and you have to leave everything that has happened in the past.”

Obviously, it's a huge challenge. Hopefully, the circus during 2016 forces the guys to finally move on and focus on the present instead of the past.

 

[Hyak]

^^^^^^^^
In fairness, it's also very true that the 2015 and 2016 teams were not as talented and deep as the 2013/2014 teams. Personally, I think the 2012 team was better than the 2014 one but at the same time I absolutely think the Seahawks win the SB 49 game if they didn't have all the defensive injuries right before and during the game.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Holy hell this crap is getting old. If they are still holding on to that, they need to either get over it, and use it as fuel.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

This has been covered talk about beating a dead horse quit posting this topic please .

 

[Ad Hawk]

This has been covered talk about beating a dead horse quit posting this topic please .

Periods. The use of well-placed periods might help the above words make some kind of sense. I think.

 

[chris98251]

This has been covered talk, about beating a dead horse, quit posting this topic please .

Periods. The use of well-placed periods might help the above words make some kind of sense. I think.

 

[Ad Hawk]

This has been covered talk, about beating a dead horse, quit posting this topic please .

Periods. The use of well-placed periods might help the above words make some kind of sense. I think.

Yeah, uh, Chris, we need to talk, my man. :lol:

 

[Ad Hawk]

This has been. Covered? Talk about beating! A dead horse quit posting. This topic, please...

Maybe I jumped to conclusions about periods when other punctuation probably fits better.

Ok, back on topic: if this team has a super bowl hangover, then I'd say many teams that never even get to the big game suffer the same symptoms.

The truth is that it's just very hard to make it to the last game of the year--let alone win it!--unless all the pieces are in place: the right players hot at the right time, great coaching, luck from few injuries and a few timely turnovers, maybe the weather in on'e's favor, and even a sense of destiny.