LeftHandSmoke
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Any stats on how often the Jets blitz? Sacks, hits, pressures so far?
Why does everyone insist we can't win with Boykin?
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Ad Hawk
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LeftHandSmoke":2u4f36kt said:
According to the NFL Team Stats site, they're only allowing 71 yards on the ground average, they've forced two fumbles, and have 9 sacks. I don't know where hits and pressures are listed.
Threedee
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We were in a position to win both of the first two games of the season with a shit offense. Boykin couldn't do much worse than that. He's more Trevor Siemion than he is Ryan Lindley.
Hawkscanner
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First of all to bring some sanity back to this conversation, let's clarify exactly what we're talking about here. I believe we're talking about Boykin simply starting this 1 game -- a 1 and done and that's it -- not the entire season. If that's what we're talking about here (given the current physical state of Russell Wilson), then I think it's certainly something you have to consider. Russell is a tough guy (as we'd all admit), but I think Carroll would even admit that there are times that Wilson needs to be protected from himself. Sometimes the smart thing (though it's hard) is to sit one out to give yourself time to heal up because in the long run, it's going to hurt you and the team worse if you don't.
Anyway, back to the OP's original question, "Why can't we win with Boykin?" Now, if we were going up against a team like the Patriots or the Packers (teams with good to great starting QB's) -- then fine, I'd concede that we would need Russell Wilson to win. Absolutely. In this case however, I believe it's possible. Take an in depth look at this particular opponent in the Jets and I think a case can be made for the idea of starting Boykin here.
First of all, Boykin's opponent doesn't exactly have a history of lighting it up as a QB. In fact, quite the opposite. The Seahawks under Pete Carroll have faced Ryan Fitzpatrick twice -- both times pretty much owning him.
The first time that the Hawks faced Fitzpatrick was back in 2012. He was the Bills starting QB in that epic 50-17 blowout of the Bills. While he did throw a TD, also threw 2 INT's, had a fumble, and was sacked 3 times.
The next year in 2013, Fitzpatrick was a member of the Titans and faced us in Week 6 (10/13). In that game, he again threw 2 INT's (he had 0 TD's), had 2 fumbles, and was again sacked 3 times.
While it's admittedly a very small sample size, Fitzpatrick hasn't exactly lit it up against the Seahawks. He's struggled both times. Given that he struggled against a very good defensive team in Kansas City, it's fairly reasonable to expect he's going to have his issues against the Seahawks. He's also fumbled in each of his first 3 games, so if that's any indicator of things to come, it would appear that there will be turnover opportunities to be had. The Jets are heavily dependent upon their run game to open things up for Fitzpatrick. Stopping the run is what the Seahawks absolutely excel at, so I don't see the Fitzpatrick and the Jets lighting up the scoreboard in any way, shape, or fashion. I'd predict quite the opposite.
Flipping over to the other side of the ball, that defensive line is arguably one of the very best in football. Most of the attention has been focused on guys like Muhammed Wilkerson and Sheldon Richardson. They could be problematic and potentially be chasing our QB's all game long (which is why I think sitting a less than mobile Russell Wilson may be the prudent move here).
The reason why I believe Boykin could have some success in this game is that Jets secondary. They are Night and day different from their front 7.
It's early obviously, but as of right now, the Jets are statistically one of the WORST secondaries in the NFL.
Through the first 3 games, the Jets are allowing ...
71.3% Pass Completion% (Worst in the NFL)
an average of 9.7 yards/pass attempt (Worst in the NFL)
a QB Rating of 110.7 against them (2nd Worst in the NFL)
they have allowed 6 passes of 40 yards+ already (tied for 2nd worst)
an average of 284 yards/game passing (21st in the NFL)
Many people are starting to question whether or not Darrell Revis is starting to show his age. Whatever the reason, teams in the early going are having success against that secondary. If Boykin were to go in there with a game manager type of script, I think the chances are good he would come out of this one with a W.
For this one game only, given all the various factors, I think starting Boykin is at least something you have to consider.
Anyway, back to the OP's original question, "Why can't we win with Boykin?" Now, if we were going up against a team like the Patriots or the Packers (teams with good to great starting QB's) -- then fine, I'd concede that we would need Russell Wilson to win. Absolutely. In this case however, I believe it's possible. Take an in depth look at this particular opponent in the Jets and I think a case can be made for the idea of starting Boykin here.
First of all, Boykin's opponent doesn't exactly have a history of lighting it up as a QB. In fact, quite the opposite. The Seahawks under Pete Carroll have faced Ryan Fitzpatrick twice -- both times pretty much owning him.
The first time that the Hawks faced Fitzpatrick was back in 2012. He was the Bills starting QB in that epic 50-17 blowout of the Bills. While he did throw a TD, also threw 2 INT's, had a fumble, and was sacked 3 times.
The next year in 2013, Fitzpatrick was a member of the Titans and faced us in Week 6 (10/13). In that game, he again threw 2 INT's (he had 0 TD's), had 2 fumbles, and was again sacked 3 times.
While it's admittedly a very small sample size, Fitzpatrick hasn't exactly lit it up against the Seahawks. He's struggled both times. Given that he struggled against a very good defensive team in Kansas City, it's fairly reasonable to expect he's going to have his issues against the Seahawks. He's also fumbled in each of his first 3 games, so if that's any indicator of things to come, it would appear that there will be turnover opportunities to be had. The Jets are heavily dependent upon their run game to open things up for Fitzpatrick. Stopping the run is what the Seahawks absolutely excel at, so I don't see the Fitzpatrick and the Jets lighting up the scoreboard in any way, shape, or fashion. I'd predict quite the opposite.
Flipping over to the other side of the ball, that defensive line is arguably one of the very best in football. Most of the attention has been focused on guys like Muhammed Wilkerson and Sheldon Richardson. They could be problematic and potentially be chasing our QB's all game long (which is why I think sitting a less than mobile Russell Wilson may be the prudent move here).
The reason why I believe Boykin could have some success in this game is that Jets secondary. They are Night and day different from their front 7.
It's early obviously, but as of right now, the Jets are statistically one of the WORST secondaries in the NFL.
Through the first 3 games, the Jets are allowing ...
71.3% Pass Completion% (Worst in the NFL)
an average of 9.7 yards/pass attempt (Worst in the NFL)
a QB Rating of 110.7 against them (2nd Worst in the NFL)
they have allowed 6 passes of 40 yards+ already (tied for 2nd worst)
an average of 284 yards/game passing (21st in the NFL)
Many people are starting to question whether or not Darrell Revis is starting to show his age. Whatever the reason, teams in the early going are having success against that secondary. If Boykin were to go in there with a game manager type of script, I think the chances are good he would come out of this one with a W.
For this one game only, given all the various factors, I think starting Boykin is at least something you have to consider.
SilkMonkey
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NINEster":cgtmtgfl said:
Jeff Fisher's wildest dream there.
LeftHandSmoke
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An interesting read here, supports much of what Hawkscanner posted.
--
Tale of the Tape: Jets Defense Could Give Seahawks Fits
Brian Nemhauser September 28, 2016
http://www.hawkblogger.com/2016/09/tale ... -fits.html
--
Tale of the Tape: Jets Defense Could Give Seahawks Fits
Brian Nemhauser September 28, 2016
http://www.hawkblogger.com/2016/09/tale ... -fits.html
Hasselbeck
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I think this narrative 10-15 years ago has a lot of merit.
Present day NFL? I feel like the rules are so catered to work against a defense that a rookie QB can come in and have success.
Long term success? I don't think so. I don't think Boykin would be any different than T-Jack in 2011. However, to steal a game or two.. absolutely Boykin could do that. I mean Jacoby Brissett just beat (kind of) the Texans on a short week of prep. Cody Kessler nearly won his first start. Dak Prescott is playing great. These are all comparable talents to Boykin, so sure he can have success here.
It's just that when teams actually game prep for him, where it gets a little fuzzy.
Present day NFL? I feel like the rules are so catered to work against a defense that a rookie QB can come in and have success.
Long term success? I don't think so. I don't think Boykin would be any different than T-Jack in 2011. However, to steal a game or two.. absolutely Boykin could do that. I mean Jacoby Brissett just beat (kind of) the Texans on a short week of prep. Cody Kessler nearly won his first start. Dak Prescott is playing great. These are all comparable talents to Boykin, so sure he can have success here.
It's just that when teams actually game prep for him, where it gets a little fuzzy.
Smelly McUgly
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So, if Rawls and Michael were both healthy and we could just run the Jets into the ground, I'd agree. But we'll need to pass to win with Rawls out, and Boykin is a one-read QB at this point. The plays they ran for him were basically one-read-and-throw. They were good playcalls (see, I give credit to the OC when it's due!), but I don't know that it would work for a whole game.
LeftHandSmoke
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Imagine Boykin being allowed to roll out left or right as he likes, play the RO and be allowed to run a few keepers like he did against Dallas, after the Jets spend all this week instead game planning for a hobbled, statue-like RW.
Maybe as a change up after RW starts things off, that move could throw the Jets some big problems. 'Sandlot' football is what Trevone excels best at and our receivers are well experienced at taking advantage of 'broken' plays. The Jets secondary sucks, Boykin can likely burn 'em with confidence using the best strength of his already-proven at TCU style.
Maybe as a change up after RW starts things off, that move could throw the Jets some big problems. 'Sandlot' football is what Trevone excels best at and our receivers are well experienced at taking advantage of 'broken' plays. The Jets secondary sucks, Boykin can likely burn 'em with confidence using the best strength of his already-proven at TCU style.
idahohawk
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Because the same "confidence" that allows him to thrive as an UFA, also leads to random stupid turnovers.
Summarized: He can't be trusted yet.
Summarized: He can't be trusted yet.
SeAhAwKeR4life
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idahohawk":3vv24grr said:
So keeping him on the bench all year will make him trustworthy?
Good background story ... :2thumbs:
Trevone Boykin gets text from special young fan after NFL debut >>> [urltargetblank]http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/9/29/13111294/trevone-boykin-abby-faber-tcu-iowa-state-nfl-debut-seahawks[/urltargetblank]
Trevone Boykin gets text from special young fan after NFL debut >>> [urltargetblank]http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/9/29/13111294/trevone-boykin-abby-faber-tcu-iowa-state-nfl-debut-seahawks[/urltargetblank]
IndyHawk
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I'm not ready for Boykin till RW next contract which by then I hope we find someone a lot better.
idahohawk
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Right now? Yes.
SeAhAwKeR4life":qqmk6nc1 said:
Seafan
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I think we do really well with Boykin, especially when his helmet is off.
xgeoff
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sutz":ws4jz4co said:
Draft position only matters at one singular point in time --> The Draft. It affects contracts and that is it. Once a player gets into training camp, it really doesn't matter. Oh you'll see teams try to force high draft picks into service (like Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, etc). But ultimately, if the guy can't play, he can't play.
And every year you see UFA guys make teams, start, and make the Pro Bowl. Every year.
That's why it bugs me when guys like Clayton, who should know better, place any stock in draft position AFTER the draft. It really just doesn't matter.
Seahawkfan80
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Since we are talking about our backup, I thought I would dredge this up again. After all, this post keeps coming up when I log on. I think he will be solid. He has the skills, but maybe time will tell. I voted for him in the poll too. Just for reference...
Lords of Scythia
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Our defensive numbers would crash if we fielded a crappy offense. Keeping the offense on the field, converting first downs, etc. Crappy offense = crappy defense.
KiwiHawk
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If we get the guy who was hitting Williams for big gains, we'd do fine. If we get the 0/6 version, we'd suck. Problem is you just don't know which you are going to get.
