Why I think Brandon Coleman should be a priority for Seattle

[Attyla the Hawk]

He admittedly sees Coleman as a boom/bust pick. His criticisms on Coleman are pretty much conceded. His grade has more to do with his lack of improvement from 2012 to 13. As a draft analyst, it doesn't make sense for him to grade based on the earliest possibility. He even mentions it only takes one team.

In all, I don't see anything earth shattering about his review. He doesn't allow for bad QB play as much as others and if I were to agree on that, I'd grade him similarly. I don't though and I think injury robbed him of the explosiveness we saw in 2012. It wasn't like he blew and MCL or anything so I don't expect there to be lingering issues with his knee. At any rate, it's a risk we'll know a lot more about when the team pores over his records. I do think we'll take him higher -- as we did with Irvin. And Wagner. And Wilson.

And Jeremiah will be right on some of them. Irvin was a day 2 pick. Period. He never should have been taken in the top 32. If some other team wanted him that bad, Seattle should have let him go elsewhere. He is just nowhere near day 1 quality and that track record is now well established. No rabid hawks homer is going to defend that pick anymore. He'll be a 27 going on 28 year old veteran who isn't starting material.

I just don't agree on this particular case.

 

[General Manager]

I'd take Davante Adams over Coleman pre combine.

 

[HawkWow]

^ Totally agree with your last paragraph. For all the draft magic we've witnessed from JS and PC, I've seen little of that on day 1 (other than Okung and Earl, unless I'm missing someone off the top of my head). Our FO may want to consider listening to some of these reports...or trade our 1sts and 2nds for 3rds etc. We have been incredibly fortunate to have scored so big in the mid rounds...I'm not saying lucky,...fortunate.

Your first paragraph is true. It appears shoddy QB play was not emphasized, but as I pointed out in my previous post, there's chinks in Coleman's game that will be there regardless of the QB. Especially OUR (scrambling) QB and this is why I said if we took him, it would have to be with our 4th as we don't have a 3rd and that is also fortunate, I don't think Coleman warrants a 3rd (from us) and believe he will be more valuable to a team with a pure pocket type QB.

And I could be very wrong, too. If I am, I blame that on the fact I am not of the group that believes we absolutely need to spend a high pick on a WR this year. I think we need to re sign *Tate and use Willson more adequately while saving our high picks (bundling them and /or adding a player in trade, if necessary) to do something to improve the O-line. I dread the thought of sending RW out against the NFCW again this year in our current state of dysfunction and uncertainty. We're not doing our backs any favors, either.

* Wow...watching the Jax game and Tate just leveled (Jag safety) Dwight Lowery. Sent him to the locker room. ; )

 

[kigenzun]

I'm sorry, I just don't see it with Coleman.
With all due respect, this guy has bust written all over him.

Similarly to drafting Chris Harper's supercool attributes/but admittedly super flawed AT BEING AN ACTUAL WIDE RECEIVER potential last year, we happily blamed/explained away his lack of production at Kansas State to the low quality of QB(Klein), and the style of offense they ran(RunFirst). I mean, don't we also run a similar run first offense that needs WRs to maximize every single opportunity? The reality is we're only in this position now, because Harper couldn't even make the team!

IMO drafting Brandon Coleman in the first round would be a terrible mistake. Yes he's 6'6", but he has alligator arms...so he plays A LOT smaller than he is...
AND he's already damaged goods(knee!), and is 'One-hit skinny' from turning into an injury plagued Sidney Rice situation all over again!

Aaron Curry had speed, great character, and unique physical gifts too...(yeah I went there for emphasis on this point) just no real awareness on the football field! Which is what I am driving at...THIS GUY AINT A REAL FOOTBALL PLAYER! He's just a guy with potential... who has 1)actually regressed the last few seasons, 2)while struggling to stay on the field from injuries, and 3) who only had more than 2 catches in 3 games last year.(see below)

Maybe maybe maybe in the fifth round as a 3 year project, but certainly not at 32 or 64, or even 128! I mean get real! He's simply not ready to consistently contribute this coming season. Honestly. Give me Basketballer Adams, or gamebreaker Beckham Jr, or YAC Robinson, or High-pointer Landry, or especially a downfield tank/red zone jumpballer who's actually made bigtime plays against stiff SEC competition like Kelvin Benjamin.

I'm sorry, Brandon Coleman just aint got 'THE IT FACTOR'...i.e. 'THE ADB Eternally Burning Fire' to be a RIPPER PRODUCTIVE GAME IN/GAME OUT SEAHAWKS WR...
Trust me, I understand the mancrush love, but C'Mon!
Get over it on Coleman. He sucks.
'nuff said.

 

[HawkWow]

^ yep.

While reading your post, I just watched RW get sacked (hard) by JAX's 3 (three) man rush. Okung out.... but it was from Breno's side that Babin got to RW. Ridiculous.

 

[Natethegreat]

I would be extremely dissapointed if we spent a first rounder on Coleman despite all the hype he receives around here. If that was their target I would hope they at least trade down and pick up a third at least. I like Hoffman just as much as Coleman. Maybe Coleman has a little speed on him but Hoffman has great hands and shown consistent production not to mention great ability to high point the ball making his height an actual advantage. Hoffman could be had in the third or fourth most likely.

 

[kigenzun]

Exactly, at #32, give me Tiny Richardson or Morgan Moses or Zack Martin... or Aaron Donald or Ra-shede Hagemon or Brent Urban, or WRs Adams, Beckham Jr, Robinson, Landry, or Benjamin...or ASJ even...BUT NOT BRANDON COLEMAN! I mean he aint even good enough to start on our special teams! And he aint faster than Lockette the Rockette; and look how long its taken him to pan out! Geez!

Better yet to trade down and recoup a 3rd and draft the remainder of the above...
or best yet, TRADE UP 'to make sure we get our guy, like BIG KB, before the Panthers/9ers do'...but please please please let's not be hasty in blowing another valuable Day 1 or Day 2 pick on a 'potential' WR.

Yes, we are Super Bowl Champions, but we don't have the luxury to draft a project like Coleman, to replace Rice, Tate or especially Baldwin.

Personally, I believe Rice & Tate will be shown the door for cap savings, and 'The Boulder on my Shoulder' heartbeat of this team, Baldwin, will be soon paid, and deservedly acknowledged as one of the best WRs in this league.

 

[HawkWow]

I think it would take a ridiculous outside offer for us to lose Tate. This FO is more about rewarding our organic guys than letting them walk and few on this team deserve reward more than Tate. Did he fade a bit at the end of a very long season where he blocked, caught and returned punts? A little bit, yes... but I would be stunned to learn our FO's memory is so short.

Re watched the Carolina game yesterday... Tate was the best player on the field. Watching the *Jax game now, Tate is again the best player on the field. Pay the man.

* Ironically, the two players catching all the TDs in this game (Rice / Miller) will likely not be with us next year. Tate's opening drive KO of Lowery opened things up for both.

 

[cover-2]

I'd take Davante Adams over Coleman pre combine.

:th2thumbs:

[youtube]uvGeiqmqWE0[/youtube]

 

[Hawken-Dazs]

A few clips of jump balls in this highlights vid. Coleman is freaky fast for his size.

I hope we can trade down out of the 1st round and draft him.

[youtube]FfXcHq_krjg[/youtube]

 

[cover-2]

A few clips of jump balls in this highlights vid. Coleman is freaky fast for his size.

I hope we can trade down out of the 1st round and draft him.

[youtube]FfXcHq_krjg[/youtube]

I think Coleman's nickname is "Double-Clutch".

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

A few clips of jump balls in this highlights vid. Coleman is freaky fast for his size.

I hope we can trade down out of the 1st round and draft him.

[youtube]FfXcHq_krjg[/youtube]

Watching that, all I can think is, "he's standing there waiting for half of those passes". His QB is awful.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Posting a picture of his stat line (as someone did earlier) is pointless.

The Rutgers passing game has been among the NCAA's worst since Tom Savage transferred. It's an absolute joke, led by an embarrassingly poor QB.

 

[HawkWow]

A few clips of jump balls in this highlights vid. Coleman is freaky fast for his size.

I hope we can trade down out of the 1st round and draft him.

[youtube]FfXcHq_krjg[/youtube]

Watching that, all I can think is, "he's standing there waiting for half of those passes". His QB is awful.

That video illustrates everything I've said about him in this thread. He plays shorter than his size, going up for ball to body catch instead of extending his arms and snatching it out of the air ...like NFL receivers sometimes like to do (!).

Actually, he body catches almost everything and plods through and rounds off his routes, only showing fire after he catches the ball. And mind you, this was a highlight reel. I've seen film on Coleman where he looked lazy and stays out of the play if his number is not called. How would that work with the scrambling Wilson? No way do we draft this guy and if he is drafted high...I hope it's by someone in our division.

 

[kigenzun]

That video illustrates everything I've said about him in this thread. He plays shorter than his size, going up for ball to body catch instead of extending his arms and snatching it out of the air ...like NFL receivers sometimes like to do (!).

Actually, he body catches almost everything and plods through and rounds off his routes, only showing fire after he catches the ball. And mind you, this was a highlight reel. I've seen film on Coleman where he looked lazy and stays out of the play if his number is not called. How would that work with the scrambling Wilson? No way do we draft this guy and if he is drafted high...I hope it's by someone in our division.

This. Exactly.

I am actually impressed with the contrast example of the Davonte Adams/Brandon Coleman game tapes above. Its like night and day watching Adams, compared to the Coleman tape that follows it. First, Adams looks and acts like a WR with massive confidence, leaping ability, and elite hands/ball skills, who is used to making a variety of context catches, and never the same thing twice, improvised YAC moves,like all day. Simply put, over a hundred catches last year speaks for itself. He is used to catching the ball and making things happen in a variety of ways. Love the incredible jumpcuts for YAC. Great vision and awareness IMO.

Coleman. Meh.
First, the jumpball they play 3 times. Sure, he catches it, but not cleanly.
Later, he burns a clueless true freshman for two wide open TDs. Of course, that tape was like 2 seasons ago, before the knee injury.
Lastly, for example, he barely won that last jumpball against CB that he had an 11 inch height advantage on. Against NFL corners/NFC West defenses? I don't think so.

Maybe its just me, (different eyes, looking at the same things, see different things, from different POV...) but Coleman simply doesn't pass the NFL ready WR eyeball test for me. As I superimpose his gametape in my imagination into a Seahawks uniform at Century Link, facing the next level of competition(Cardinals, 49ers, Rams)for example, vs. a Patrick Peterson... I just don't see how his game translates. He's just a one trick pony/Go Route or nothing kind of guy IMO. AND I JUST DON'T SEE WHAT OUR OFFENSE ACTUALLY NEEDS IN THESE HIGHLIGHT REELS AT ALL! No inside the five corner fades for TDs, no redzone jumpballs for TD, no hotly contested over the middle tough first down slants, no broken tackles for extra yards. Nothing. Whereas Adams does all those things and more, Coleman shows none of it, even on his highlight reels. And y'all know how Bevell likes to throw inside the 5... in that scenario, give me Benjamin jumpballing inside the 5 anyday; aka the Game Winner in the national championship game. TOUCHDOWN SEAHAWKS!!!

Bottomline: IMO, Brandon Coleman just doesn't offer the variety of actual NFL skills we need. Instead, all I see is a couple deep crossing routes that he took to the house, due to outrunning lesser competition, from 2 years ago, before the knee. I say, let go the pipe dream of Coleman somehow magically taking the top off NFC West defenses. Go routes to sleep. These are not the WRs we are looking for. Zzzzz...

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

That video illustrates everything I've said about him in this thread. He plays shorter than his size, going up for ball to body catch instead of extending his arms and snatching it out of the air ...like NFL receivers sometimes like to do (!).

Actually, he body catches almost everything and plods through and rounds off his routes, only showing fire after he catches the ball. And mind you, this was a highlight reel. I've seen film on Coleman where he looked lazy and stays out of the play if his number is not called. How would that work with the scrambling Wilson? No way do we draft this guy and if he is drafted high...I hope it's by someone in our division.

This is like a pff analysis, much of what you said is relatively true, but it lacks some context that gives the real truth behind it.

How does one go up snatch the ball out of the air when the balls arnt being thrown so he can do that? almost none of those passes were thrown to lead him or up high enough to take advantage of his height.. if he wasnt 6 6 he would have to jump to high point some of those... but since hes 6 6 and cant be short enough to need to reach and jump thats a bad thing? how does someone extend his arms when they are waiting/readjusting for the ball thats behind them? his qb not taking advantage of his height is not an indication that that he cant take advantage himself, he cant throw the ball to himself.

ive seen many times where wilsons scrambling and our wrs are dogging it down the field, running routes straight towards the sidelines ect, i think our wrs get a little too much love on here and a little too much hate from everyone else.

 

[Hawken-Dazs]

Wilson tends to throw high. This would bode well for a tall receiver like KB or Coleman. I don't think the Rutgers QB helped Coleman with his college tape.

 

[TheWebHead]

Schneider has drafted 2 WR's to match an ideal body type, Kris Durham and Chris Harper, both in round 4, and neither panned out... so big and/or tall, the priority above all for me, can he ball... that's especially the case in rounds 1 or 2.

 

[kigenzun]

Posting a picture of his stat line (as someone did earlier) is pointless.

The Rutgers passing game has been among the NCAA's worst since Tom Savage transferred. It's an absolute joke, led by an embarrassingly poor QB.

It is somewhat true that stats are irrelevant without context. However, I'll give it another go, with an additional spirit of humility & fun. Here's Adams 'pointless' statitics for a reference marker. Emphasis on the game stats head to head in Week 1 (almost identical), to the total difference in the consistent body of Adams onfield work. Only 25 more catches for the entire rest of the season for Coleman...117 for Adams... it speaks volumes!

As for the sad sack state of the Rutgers passing game; that's 100% true. They suck, and I want nothing whatsoever to do with them, or their "passing game", ever. Lest it infect ours like a flu virus... or fleas... or bedbugs... or jungle fungus!!! or some other such hacking nasty... I mean keep that thing in Quarantine!

And yet, if we are actually shooting for a true #1 WR, at #32, and somehow end up with a solid #2 with route running experience in a creative West Coast passing attack(Adams), I say ok great. But gambling on another unproven boom or bust 'Go Route or Go stand on the sidelines' guy seems to me like an unnecessary risk at this point in our budding dynasty. KState & Rutgers? For WRs? Give me a break. It would suck bigtime to go for a true #1 BIG WR, again, and find out in retrospect we ended up with a #5or#6 rarely used/low production numbers/rosterspace eater wr(Coleman), who is not even a decent upgrade over Lockette at gunner/special team tackler.

Most importantly, I'd like to state that I do not wish to debate this player's actual value just for the sake of being argumentative:
---kearly & Rob, you both have my utmost respect---:

However, IMO... please be very, very, wary of being lovestruck with Coleman's measurables, while disregarding his low floor.

Drafting a first round WR from the nations worst "absolute joke" passing attack... makes about as much sense as drafting a first round RB from the nations worst running team... i.e. It simply makes little or no sense.

Instead, while completely ignoring the irrelevant stats below,
this time: Dream... say, Russell Wilson's QB motto/WR wishlist: "Y'Know... What I really want is (to be) a world class baller... not just a guy who is taller."

I mean goodness graciousness, we might be able to get Aaron Donald at #32!, instead of Coleman. Think about it... and laugh a little.

 

[HawkWow]

That video illustrates everything I've said about him in this thread. He plays shorter than his size, going up for ball to body catch instead of extending his arms and snatching it out of the air ...like NFL receivers sometimes like to do (!).

Actually, he body catches almost everything and plods through and rounds off his routes, only showing fire after he catches the ball. And mind you, this was a highlight reel. I've seen film on Coleman where he looked lazy and stays out of the play if his number is not called. How would that work with the scrambling Wilson? No way do we draft this guy and if he is drafted high...I hope it's by someone in our division.

This is like a pff analysis, much of what you said is relatively true, but it lacks some context that gives the real truth behind it.

How does one go up snatch the ball out of the air when the balls arnt being thrown so he can do that? almost none of those passes were thrown to lead him or up high enough to take advantage of his height.. if he wasnt 6 6 he would have to jump to high point some of those... but since hes 6 6 and cant be short enough to need to reach and jump thats a bad thing? how does someone extend his arms when they are waiting/readjusting for the ball thats behind them? his qb not taking advantage of his height is not an indication that that he cant take advantage himself, he cant throw the ball to himself.

ive seen many times where wilsons scrambling and our wrs are dogging it down the field, running routes straight towards the sidelines ect, i think our wrs get a little too much love on here and a little too much hate from everyone else.

First off, I had no desire to offer a complex study, or write an "analysis" on a player I know we won't be taking....and I'm not saying I'm capable of doing so either. I was simply pointing out a few glaring weakness' in his game...and why I don't believe he will be a Hawk.

Second, you should watch his (highlight) reels again. You will see the balls that were thrown high, he jumped up to catch with his body..as I said, he plays shorter than his length. Basically, you have a 6'6" 220 guy playing smaller, but still offering a huge target to get jammed at the line. Further...I'm unsure where all this talk of his blazing speed originated. @ 4.6..we have TEs that our faster. Willson, in particular, is capable of doing everything Coleman does, at 30 lbs heavier.

I also stated I've seen other film on him where he took himself out of plays and he is notorious for not going back to bail out his scrambling QB. You're saying our current guys, Rice aside, are known for this as well?

I've already spent too much time with what looks to me like an NFL bust, so I will put my money where my mouth is and offer you a bet: IF the Hawks take Coleman (in any rd), I will quit posting on this board. If we don't draft him...you do the same. Deal?

It's all about dat action, boss.