Why Isn't The Seahawks Template More Of A Story?

[Popeyejones]

"Always compete", the "band of brothers"/"it's not about individual stats", "next man up", etc. aren't a template or a philosophy.

They're just sports cliches that get used across every team sport everywhere all the way down to the elementary school level.

If they were a template or a philosophy there would be juxtaposed templates and philosophies: teams that preach to their players that they SHOULDN'T "always compete", that selfishness is the way to win games, and that everyone should just despondent and give up when a top player goes down.

What Clayton is touching on, and absolutely is a template (in that it's matching types of players at different positions into an overall scheme) is that the Falcons have been targeting defensive players that mirror the Hawks defense that Quinn coached. There are some differences, but overall Clayton is rightly noting IMO that they've amassed "their versions" of some Hawks defensive players.

It doesn't get talked about that much though because the Falcons win with their offense (which could not be more different from the Hawks' offense), whereas their defense just became LESS OF A LIABILITY over the course of the season (until last night at least).

 

[Jimjones0384]

This was a response I made in regards to John Clayton's article on MyNorthwest.com about the Falcons and Seahawks defensive comparisons. Not that I had a problem with his article per se, but in my mind there's a bigger story that seems to be largely untouched by the mainstream media folk.

Forget the defensive comparisons. I think far more intriguing is how Quinn has taken Pete's philosophy - and the Seahawks Template - (Play for your brother next to you...Forget about personal stats, it's about Love Your Brother, Always Compete, etc, etc) and brought it to Atlanta where it is CLEARLY working.

Funny how I have heard little about the credit the Seahawks organization should be getting for the Falcons current success. I don't mean that in a sour grapes kind of way...In fact Dan Quinn is more than happy to tell media where his philosophy's genesis stems from, I just find it odd that Pete Carroll and the culture he has brought to Seattle since his arrival isn't a major story.

Let's take Denver as an example. Here they were, the most DOMINATE OFFENSE IN NFL HISTORY when we faced them in SBXLVIII. The media had a field day..."How on earth can the Seahawks defense stop the most prolific offense in NFL history?!?"

43-8.

So what did Denver do? Elway was smart enough to realize "Uh, we need to build a dominate defense". And that is precisely what they did. Two years later? They beat the Panthers in the Super Bowl based off a dominating defensive performance.

My point? Not since the days of Bill Walsh and the epic 49ers of the 80's have we seen a team who's template has been as copied as the Seahawks in recent years. Yet, little credit is given for that. I wonder why that is?

This organization will get more credit in hindsight. 20 years from now, they will talk about the Seahawks and the pats as two of the most dominate teams in history. No team has started more udfa's than the Hawks since pcjs took over. No team has started more udfa's than the pats since belicheck took over. Both coaching trees have a good chance at being highly successful.

This run the Hawks are on is far from over. Success is built into the system.

 

[JimmyG]

"Always compete", the "band of brothers"/"it's not about individual stats", "next man up", etc. aren't a template or a philosophy.

They're just sports cliches that get used across every team sport everywhere all the way down to the elementary school level.

I agree. These concepts aren't revolutionary and ground-breaking. They have been around forever. You heard the Patriots players talking about the same thing. "Bill always tells us to play a full 60 minutes. We didn't panic, we were going to fight hard until the final second." Martellus Bennett said similar things in the post-game interviews. "It's not about the individual numbers -- some games I only had one or two targets -- it's about winning." PC and co. preach the right philosophies, but they are hardly unique or innovative. I can't help but roll my eyes when people attribute that stuff to PC.

One thing I will give Carroll credit for though is emphasizing speed so much. There's that story and quote from PC that gets referenced a lot. It's something like, "back at USC, PC lost a game... the opponents players were faster... after that game, he vowed always to have the fastest players on the field." That's a philosophy that Quinn has brought with him to Atlanta for sure. How many times did we hear about how fast the Falcons linebackers are?

Now, again... "wow, PC wants fast players!" Again, it's easy to exaggerate how innovative that is. Obviously, all things equal, you're going to want a faster player than a slower one. I think that our organization is willing to take on more "project players" than most though. We try to get the extreme physical specimens and mold them into good players. Other teams I take a more balanced approach, of players that are maybe a little less physically talented but more technically sound.

 

[cymatica]

This was a response I made in regards to John Clayton's article on MyNorthwest.com about the Falcons and Seahawks defensive comparisons. Not that I had a problem with his article per se, but in my mind there's a bigger story that seems to be largely untouched by the mainstream media folk.

Forget the defensive comparisons. I think far more intriguing is how Quinn has taken Pete's philosophy - and the Seahawks Template - (Play for your brother next to you...Forget about personal stats, it's about Love Your Brother, Always Compete, etc, etc) and brought it to Atlanta where it is CLEARLY working.

Funny how I have heard little about the credit the Seahawks organization should be getting for the Falcons current success. I don't mean that in a sour grapes kind of way...In fact Dan Quinn is more than happy to tell media where his philosophy's genesis stems from, I just find it odd that Pete Carroll and the culture he has brought to Seattle since his arrival isn't a major story.

Let's take Denver as an example. Here they were, the most DOMINATE OFFENSE IN NFL HISTORY when we faced them in SBXLVIII. The media had a field day..."How on earth can the Seahawks defense stop the most prolific offense in NFL history?!?"

43-8.

So what did Denver do? Elway was smart enough to realize "Uh, we need to build a dominate defense". And that is precisely what they did. Two years later? They beat the Panthers in the Super Bowl based off a dominating defensive performance.

My point? Not since the days of Bill Walsh and the epic 49ers of the 80's have we seen a team who's template has been as copied as the Seahawks in recent years. Yet, little credit is given for that. I wonder why that is?

This organization will get more credit in hindsight. 20 years from now, they will talk about the Seahawks and the pats as two of the most dominate teams in history. No team has started more udfa's than the Hawks since pcjs took over. No team has started more udfa's than the pats since belicheck took over. Both coaching trees have a good chance at being highly successful.

This run the Hawks are on is far from over. Success is built into the system.

20 years from now they will talk about the Pats, not Seattle, unless they bring home a few more lombardis. 1 superbowl win is not one of the most dominant, neither is the way they played their last 2 playoff losses.

Let's face it, they are a great team, but not a dynasty or the most dominant.

 

[scutterhawk]

"Always compete", the "band of brothers"/"it's not about individual stats", "next man up", etc. aren't a template or a philosophy.

They're just sports cliches that get used across every team sport everywhere all the way down to the elementary school level.

I agree. -- it's about winning." PC and co. preach the right philosophies, but they are hardly unique or innovative. I can't help but roll my eyes when people attribute that stuff to PC.

One thing I will give Carroll credit for though is emphasizing speed so much. There's that story and quote from PC that gets referenced a lot. It's something like, "back at USC, PC lost a game... the opponents players were faster... after that game, he vowed always to have the fastest players on the field." That's a philosophy that Quinn has brought with him to Atlanta for sure. How many times did we hear about how fast the Falcons linebackers are?

Now, again... "wow, PC wants fast players!" Again, it's easy to exaggerate how innovative that is. Obviously, all things equal, you're going to want a faster player than a slower one. I think that our organization is willing to take on more "project players" than most though. We try to get the extreme physical specimens and mold them into good players. Other teams I take a more balanced approach, of players that are maybe a little less physically talented but more technically sound.

So, tell us, did YOU "Roll Your Eyes" when during the game, the announcer SAID EXACTLY the same thing that the OP (Todd) put in the header of THIS POST?
I "Roll My Eyes" every time someone proclaims they have THE complete answers to each and every Post & Thread........Sometimes there is more than ONE answer, or solution to a topic.


"These concepts aren't revolutionary and ground-breaking. They have been around forever. You heard the Patriots players talking about the same thing. "Bill always tells us to play a full 60 minutes. We didn't panic, we were going to fight hard until the final second." Martellus Bennett said similar things in the post-game interviews. "It's not about the individual numbers -- some games I only had one or two targets"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ One Size Fits All answers by PLAYERS is nothing new ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Seymour]

I've been listening to Sirius NFL all week, and they've talked a lot about the comparisons between the Falcons' defense and that of the Seahawks, so not all of the talking heads are ignoring the Hawks D.

+1.I've heard the comparison / credit given on both NFL Network and Fox several times. It's out there. Just depends on who you listen to.

Well I watch NFL Network daily so I guess there's your answer.

By who, I'm talking about which specific analyst you listen to. NFL Network has at least a dozen of them.

But forget that, what exactly are we looking for credit for? The blueprint for choking the big game might be one to consider given the latest results.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

This isn't Sour-Grapes-Overly-Sensitive-Seahawks-Fan thinking the team gets no respect at every turn....

Seems it to me, cause other than the "Patriot Way," our Hawk's are held up as the gold standard of how to run a team from coast to coast, from just about every sports media outlet I've seen.

In fact I lost count of the number of times Buck and Aikman talked about how much the Falcons look and feel like how the Hawks were built.

So I have no idea what this thread is about, we get a LOT of publicity for how well run our organization is, and how just about every team is copying every nook and cranny of it..............from the FO, roster building, music during practice, how to tackle, defensive scheme, on and on.

 

[Hyak]

I think the Atlanta use case gets skewed a bit because of the national media's obsession with offense and the Falcons largely rode their offense to the SB.

Saying that, Buck and Aikman certainly played up the Seattle similarities on the defensive side but Atlanta isn't near what the Seahawks have done defensively quite yet.

Seattle also got a lot of credit for what Elway did fixing the Broncos after SB48 to make them defensive oriented. Again, however, the national media focused on Manning's last game/SB as the lead story.

 

[RiverDog]

If the Falcons win, Carroll will finally have a branch on his assistant coaching tree that he can be proud of. It's small consolation for not being there ourselves.

I thought of that, too. Up till now, Pete's coaching tree consists of that sleaze bag Lane Kiffen and a stumbling alcoholic in Steve Sarkisian.

Those two idiots, plus Gus Bradley and LSU HC Ed Orgeron.

Bill Belichick's coaching tree is also surprisingly underwhelming, until you count Nick Saban, who was Belichick's DC with the Browns.

Good call out on Bradley and Orgeron. I'd spaced those out.

I don't know if we can rightfully consider either Saban or Kiffen as branches on anyone's tree as their fathers were both very accomplished coaches in the NFL. I've always thought that too much was made of coaching trees as many have worked for multiple coaches. It's more interesting to trace a lineage, like Paul Brown to Bill Walsh to Mike Holmgren.

 

[JimmyG]

So, tell us, did YOU "Roll Your Eyes" when during the game, the announcer SAID EXACTLY the same thing that the OP (Todd) put in the header of THIS POST?

Yes, of course I rolled my eyes. A sportscaster saying something is hardly proof of anything. They are the kings of speaking in cliches. The things about fans -- and sports media, for that matter -- is that they love romanticizing and coming up with narratives.

"Next Man Up" is not revolutionary, it is a cliche:

KC’s 'next man up' mentality powers Chiefs yet again

Former Patriots linebacker Jerod Mayo said today the “next man up” philosophy — which has come into play again this week with Jacoby Brissett likely to start at quarterback tomorrow — is one long ingrained into the Patriots psyche, particularly during his rookie year in 2008.

49ERS ALL IN ON 'NEXT MAN UP' PHILOSOPHY

Ben Roethlisberger talks about the next man up mentality of the team and previews this weeks game vs. the Jets.

EDEN PRAIRIE, Minn. – Vikings Head Coach Mike Zimmer has instilled the “next man up” mentality in his players, and it’s been a common theme in the locker room as the Vikings have faced injuries over the past three weeks.

Green Bay Packers must use Coach McCarthy's next man up philosophy to beat the Detroit Lions on Sunday. A shorthanded win will put the ...

Throughout his coaching career, Tony Dungy has taught his team, "Next man up." He teaches reserves that practice is not simply practice.

Wade Phillips’ defense embodies the “next man up” philosophy

"It affect us, but it's always the next man up," Saints cornerback Delvin Breaux said about the four-game suspension for Vaccaro. "We know he's a big, vital part of our defense. We know it's the next man up to step in and make plays."

On Saturday, the Texans and the Raiders will face each other in a rematch for the AFC Wild Card game. Both teams enter the playoffs without their star players, and have embraced the ‘Next Man Up’ mentality.

That’s part of coach Bruce Arians’ “next man up” philosophy, and it’s served the Cardinals well over the last three seasons.

---

"It's not about individual numbers, it's about winning" is also a giant cliche that has been around forever.

“Whatever works, I’m with it,” said Frank Gore, who is averaging 4 yards per carry this season. “If it’s passing, it’s passing. We pass the ball. If it’s running, we run the ball. I’m willing to do whatever it takes to win and if we have to go out there and do the spread again, I’m with it. That’s just the type of player I am. I just want to win.”

DEL RIO: NOT ABOUT NUMBERS, IT'S ABOUT WINNING GAMES
Jack Del Rio reminds the crowd that wins are more important than individual stat lines.

Tom Coughlin: “It’s not about me, not about any one individual. It’s about team. Team above all else will define the Jaguars moving forward."

Bills' new inside Bart Scott details why players must buy into Ryan's scheme. In this defense, players must sacrifice individual statistics.

BENNETT: 'I'VE CAUGHT 90 BALLS AND LOST GAMES.; HERE TO WIN"
Patriots tight end Martellus Bennett says he's not here to rack up fantasy points, he's here to do whatever it takes to win football games.

---

"Love your brother"

Michael Philipp Calls 49ers 'a True Brotherhood'

Ronnie Hillman: “The big thing is the camaraderie. [The Vikings] play for each other, and that’s the biggest part. This team has the same brotherhood — these guys treat each other like family the exact same [as in Denver], and that’s what you need to have a championship team.

Cameron Wake: "The brotherhood is strong. It's like a fraternity. It's a family. You have a job to do and 10 other guys are expecting you to do your job so they can do their job. If you don't do your job, you're letting everybody down. You're letting your family down. And if you have too many letdowns, somebody else will be doing your job. You have to respect the brotherhood."

“I know we’re going to build a great team,” Rex Ryan said before adding that he’d like to establish a “brotherhood” or “tribe” to erase the memories of a 2011 season racked with locker room dysfunction and discord.

The Colts have a brotherhood in the locker room. There’s mutual respect from the veterans down to the rookies to the training and equipment staff. Veterans like Robert Mathis, Cory Redding and Antoine Bethea make sure they stay together and keep their focus on winning.

“I want to congratulate these great players and the coaches. They’re an amazing team,” Patriots owner Robert Kraft said after accepting the Lamar Hunt Trophy. “They’re a great brotherhood. They’re a family.”

--

So, no, I don't really care what narrative the media forces on it. PC's philosophies are nothing new. They have been around forever. We've heard these same tired cliches for decades.

I do think that PC is amazing motivator. It's not what he says, it's how he says it. He also does a great job of letting players be themselves, whereas most coaches are maybe a little more authoritarian. This is why personalities like Lynch thrive here, because he got some leeway and got to be himself.

 

[FlyingGreg]

The Falcons are an offensive juggernaut thats why. They dont win by defense.

Well until the 3rd quarter of the Super Bowl they were...then they peed in their diapers.

 

[scutterhawk]

So, no, I don't really care what narrative the media forces on it. PC's philosophies are nothing new. They have been around forever. We've heard these same tired cliches for decades.

I do think that PC is amazing motivator. It's not what he says, it's how he says it. He also does a great job of letting players be themselves, whereas most coaches are maybe a little more authoritarian. This is why personalities like Lynch thrive here, because he got some leeway and got to be himself.

-------WIN FOREVER--------, just another "Cliche", used by every Coach in the League?
ALL Coaches allow for their players to use their individualities, the SMART ones recognizes the SPARQ DIFFERENCES, and features those attributes.

 

[Popeyejones]

So, tell us, did YOU "Roll Your Eyes" when during the game, the announcer SAID EXACTLY the same thing that the OP (Todd) put in the header of THIS POST?

Yes, of course I rolled my eyes. A sportscaster saying something is hardly proof of anything. They are the kings of speaking in cliches. The things about fans -- and sports media, for that matter -- is that they love romanticizing and coming up with narratives.

"Next Man Up" is not revolutionary, it is a cliche:

KC’s 'next man up' mentality powers Chiefs yet again

Former Patriots linebacker Jerod Mayo said today the “next man up” philosophy — which has come into play again this week with Jacoby Brissett likely to start at quarterback tomorrow — is one long ingrained into the Patriots psyche, particularly during his rookie year in 2008.

49ERS ALL IN ON 'NEXT MAN UP' PHILOSOPHY

Ben Roethlisberger talks about the next man up mentality of the team and previews this weeks game vs. the Jets.

EDEN PRAIRIE, Minn. – Vikings Head Coach Mike Zimmer has instilled the “next man up” mentality in his players, and it’s been a common theme in the locker room as the Vikings have faced injuries over the past three weeks.

Green Bay Packers must use Coach McCarthy's next man up philosophy to beat the Detroit Lions on Sunday. A shorthanded win will put the ...

Throughout his coaching career, Tony Dungy has taught his team, "Next man up." He teaches reserves that practice is not simply practice.

Wade Phillips’ defense embodies the “next man up” philosophy

"It affect us, but it's always the next man up," Saints cornerback Delvin Breaux said about the four-game suspension for Vaccaro. "We know he's a big, vital part of our defense. We know it's the next man up to step in and make plays."

On Saturday, the Texans and the Raiders will face each other in a rematch for the AFC Wild Card game. Both teams enter the playoffs without their star players, and have embraced the ‘Next Man Up’ mentality.

That’s part of coach Bruce Arians’ “next man up” philosophy, and it’s served the Cardinals well over the last three seasons.

---

"It's not about individual numbers, it's about winning" is also a giant cliche that has been around forever.

“Whatever works, I’m with it,” said Frank Gore, who is averaging 4 yards per carry this season. “If it’s passing, it’s passing. We pass the ball. If it’s running, we run the ball. I’m willing to do whatever it takes to win and if we have to go out there and do the spread again, I’m with it. That’s just the type of player I am. I just want to win.”

DEL RIO: NOT ABOUT NUMBERS, IT'S ABOUT WINNING GAMES
Jack Del Rio reminds the crowd that wins are more important than individual stat lines.

Tom Coughlin: “It’s not about me, not about any one individual. It’s about team. Team above all else will define the Jaguars moving forward."

Bills' new inside Bart Scott details why players must buy into Ryan's scheme. In this defense, players must sacrifice individual statistics.

BENNETT: 'I'VE CAUGHT 90 BALLS AND LOST GAMES.; HERE TO WIN"
Patriots tight end Martellus Bennett says he's not here to rack up fantasy points, he's here to do whatever it takes to win football games.

---

"Love your brother"

Michael Philipp Calls 49ers 'a True Brotherhood'

Ronnie Hillman: “The big thing is the camaraderie. [The Vikings] play for each other, and that’s the biggest part. This team has the same brotherhood — these guys treat each other like family the exact same [as in Denver], and that’s what you need to have a championship team.

Cameron Wake: "The brotherhood is strong. It's like a fraternity. It's a family. You have a job to do and 10 other guys are expecting you to do your job so they can do their job. If you don't do your job, you're letting everybody down. You're letting your family down. And if you have too many letdowns, somebody else will be doing your job. You have to respect the brotherhood."

“I know we’re going to build a great team,” Rex Ryan said before adding that he’d like to establish a “brotherhood” or “tribe” to erase the memories of a 2011 season racked with locker room dysfunction and discord.

The Colts have a brotherhood in the locker room. There’s mutual respect from the veterans down to the rookies to the training and equipment staff. Veterans like Robert Mathis, Cory Redding and Antoine Bethea make sure they stay together and keep their focus on winning.

“I want to congratulate these great players and the coaches. They’re an amazing team,” Patriots owner Robert Kraft said after accepting the Lamar Hunt Trophy. “They’re a great brotherhood. They’re a family.”

--

So, no, I don't really care what narrative the media forces on it. PC's philosophies are nothing new. They have been around forever. We've heard these same tired cliches for decades.

I do think that PC is amazing motivator. It's not what he says, it's how he says it. He also does a great job of letting players be themselves, whereas most coaches are maybe a little more authoritarian. This is why personalities like Lynch thrive here, because he got some leeway and got to be himself.

:lol: :lol:

Well done.

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

Aros writes a few weeks ahead of media stories. He's got the media combing .net
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... -broncos-d

 

[vin.couve12]

It was never the Seahawks' template to begin with. That's the problem with only knowing your own team's history instead of knowing football itself. There's nothing new about 4-3 Under/Over and even the more rare "Bear" defenses, which is really just Buddy's old 46 D. Cover 3 isn't new and press man is even older. Outside of that, those particular styles of defenses aren't required to make great defenses. Just great scouting and fitting personnel to the right positions.

The Seahawks didn't invent the wheel.

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

It was never the Seahawks' template to begin with. That's the problem with only knowing your own team's history instead of knowing football itself. There's nothing new about 4-3 Under/Over and even the more rare "Bear" defenses, which is really just Buddy's old 46 D. Cover 3 isn't new and press man is even older. Outside of that, those particular styles of defenses aren't required to make great defenses. Just great scouting and fitting personnel to the right positions.

The Seahawks didn't invent the wheel.

Of course not. Football is football. But, there are reasons Elway specifically cites the Hawks besides them being the team that spanked them. They got to compete in this era of football with rules, how they're enforced, etc. When folks watching football today think the Seahawks... they think Defense.

The Seahawks are given the honor of credit of a team with the right recipe, template... whatever. The emphasis on good fundamental tackling and the rugby style shoulder tackling even was an influence on the National championship Ohio St. Buckeyes Defense.

While there's nothing new, there's usually a twist or wrinkle.

 

[Largent80]

We won a SB with a group of HUNGRY players that were in their rookie contracts.

That isn't a template.

Now the team is challenged with trying to get back to the SB after having to undergo the F.A. gauntlet.

I think we will do it.

 

[truehawksfan]

I wouldn't call what PC has done as a template. It more like a philosophy.

1. Rah rah Pete. Everyone, every network thought his rah rah approach would not work.
2. Practice harder then game days, create a game day like atmosphere by playing music. Funny, but no one did this back in 2010....now this is commonplace throughout the league.
3. Players are allowed to be themselves. Don't think Beastmode would have had the type of career he had if he didn't have a coach like PC.
4. The definition of a Seahawks CB. Back in 2009, the average height of a CB was 5-10.5. PC inherited two 5-11 CBs, Marcus Trufant and Kelly Jennings and a 5-9 CB in Josh Wilson. In 2012, he had a 6-3 and 6-4 CB as Trufant was moved to the nickel position.

Today, any CB that's 6-2 or taller is rumored to be a Seahawks type corner.

Is this a template? Nope, but almost every team has incorporated a lot of his philosophies.

I call that a compliment since this is a copy cat league and most are copying what PC does to prepare their team to succeed.

 

[ringless]

http://www.denverpost.com/2009/08/18/ma ... cond-team/

This article in 2009 references practicing with loud music.....

 

[truehawksfan]

haha....ok, so what Denver is doing is to create noise to replicate crowd noise at the CLink.

As a season ticket holder, I'm talking about music played during warm ups at the CLink. It's for pure entertainment. Same thing during training camp. VMAC had a DJ with a playlist that caters to the players and the fans.

Big difference.

I also attended what was called Seahawks Staduim, when Homgren held a controlled practice. No music. the practice was very slow and very detailed and very boring.