Keep in mind that I'm not saying we should have broke the bank to keep any player, but:kidhawk":3rgigoc4 said:MysterMatt":3rgigoc4 said:How is the O improved? We've lost arguably our best WR and have nothing but conjecture at RT. A healthy Harvin will be nice, but he comes with risk. Sorry, the O, so far, has taken a step backwards. A lot of the "ifs" like Bowie/Bailey are going to have to step up, and WR is likely going to be thin going into the draft. Hopefully we'll get one of the promising big WRs, but we'll see.
As for the D? It's also gone backwards with the loss of at least two key components, McDonald and Clemons. Spare me the tripe about Scruggs, etc, those are just bodies who've yet to really prove anything. I'm disappointed we didn't sign Allen, but it isn't the end of the world. The way I look at that is that having him would have given us one of the best D's of all time, but now we're just really good. It will be interesting to see how we address the Leo.
My point isn't to be a doom and gloomer, but I don't see how anyone can objectively look at the roster as it stands today and say its done anything but declined a bit. I completely understand the cap situation and the need to be responsible as we're on the verge of signing 3 critical players (Wilson, Sherman, Thomas) but simple math shows we aren't as good. That isn't to say that our team now sucks, as it doesn't, but we're just not as good ON PAPER and I, for one, am not interested in Pollyanna views that our depth will suddenly become upper-level starters.
My theory is this: Schneider will certainly work toward maintaining a quality roster, but he's looking at the 2014 season as a small step backward before making another Super Bowl run in 2015. This year is sort of a "strategic retreat and regroup" year. If I'm right, it sort of bugs me but I also think its the right thing to do.
I won't say we're as good, because we aren't, but being objective, we are still a very strong super bowl contender with the team as it sits now. Let's look at our losses thus far
Offense: Tate, Giacomini & McQuistan gone
Giacomini and McQuistan vs. Bailey and Bowie is pretty much a fairly even swap. We're down some depth here, but as far as starting lineup talent, we should be fairly equal. Remember, McQuistan played a lot for Okung, and with Okung back at LT he didn't really see all that much time playing through the playoffs. Giacomini is a solid guy, but Bowie got to build some experience last season when he was thrown to the fire when Breno was hurt. I think we even out here.
Yes Tate is gone, but we still have Harvin, Baldwin & Kearse to round out our starting WRs. Again we lack enough depth here, but as far as starting talent goes, having Harvin more is a plus and should more than make up for the absence of Tate. There is still time to bring in a tall WR either through FA or the draft, and that is something I'd like to see, but it's not really much declined from last season.
Defensively we lost Clemons/Bryant. I think the rotation of Clemons/Avril/Bennett was a luxury we couldn't afford to continue with at full price. Bennett and Avril will likely get more snaps now that Clemons is gone, but I don't see much decline at all in the pass rush department. As far as the run game, this is where Bryant was a HUGE help, but we have several young guys that didn't get a lot of time last year, that I believe will step up. I don't see that as much of a decline, although there may be a bit of a learning curve.
Overall, I think we have probably regressed just slightly, but not so much as to have given up the role as the team to beat. We still should be favorites for our division and the Super Bowl with the team as is, and we still have a draft and free agency to go.
MysterMatt":28ugj6u1 said:How is the O improved? We've lost arguably our best WR and have nothing but conjecture at RT. A healthy Harvin will be nice, but he comes with risk. Sorry, the O, so far, has taken a step backwards. A lot of the "ifs" like Bowie/Bailey are going to have to step up, and WR is likely going to be thin going into the draft. Hopefully we'll get one of the promising big WRs, but we'll see.
As for the D? It's also gone backwards with the loss of at least two key components, McDonald and Clemons. Spare me the tripe about Scruggs, etc, those are just bodies who've yet to really prove anything. I'm disappointed we didn't sign Allen, but it isn't the end of the world. The way I look at that is that having him would have given us one of the best D's of all time, but now we're just really good. It will be interesting to see how we address the Leo.
My point isn't to be a doom and gloomer, but I don't see how anyone can objectively look at the roster as it stands today and say its done anything but declined a bit. I completely understand the cap situation and the need to be responsible as we're on the verge of signing 3 critical players (Wilson, Sherman, Thomas) but simple math shows we aren't as good. That isn't to say that our team now sucks, as it doesn't, but we're just not as good ON PAPER and I, for one, am not interested in Pollyanna views that our depth will suddenly become upper-level starters.
My theory is this: Schneider will certainly work toward maintaining a quality roster, but he's looking at the 2014 season as a small step backward before making another Super Bowl run in 2015. This year is sort of a "strategic retreat and regroup" year. If I'm right, it sort of bugs me but I also think its the right thing to do.
MysterMatt":342oyuzx said:Keep in mind that I'm not saying we should have broke the bank to keep any player, but:
There is a reason Giacomini started immediately upon his return: Bowie sucks at pass protection and didn't really show any improvement. If he's the answer, he's a step backward. He and Bailey give one hope, but they aren't as good as what we lost. Our OL depends on "ifs" at this point.
Kearse makes some big plays, but then totally disappears for games at a time. He's a really good 4th WR and a gamer, but c'mon.
If you think Clemons wasn't a big contributor in the pass rush, I think you're knowledgeable enough to know better. He put on consistent pressure can kept things contained well on his side. The Leo is a big question mark at this point.
I agree that we are still really good, but the Rams and Cards at least are catching up, and we got by the niners by the skin of our teeth. I agree completely that we can still contend for the SB, but at this point there are too many "what ifs" to say we're anything other than regressed in some very important positions. We'll just have to see.
kjreid":1cd83g86 said:If the season started tomorrow we would not be the "world beaters" we were last year but we will be the 1 or 2 seed and a West crown. I don't see any of the other west teams over taking us (although with everyone of there moves they have all gotten better). We might only win the Super bowl by 2 touchdowns next year
kidhawk":2tu2n1er said:kjreid":2tu2n1er said:If the season started tomorrow we would not be the "world beaters" we were last year but we will be the 1 or 2 seed and a West crown. I don't see any of the other west teams over taking us (although with everyone of there moves they have all gotten better). We might only win the Super bowl by 2 touchdowns next year
To be totally honest, the only problem I foresee for next season (as things are right now) is winning the West. The winner of the NFC west should still be favored to win it all, no matter who it is. I still think we have to be the favorites, but it wasn't the cake walk many people make it out to be. The Niners were nipping at our heels and the Rams and Cardinals are both improving. This division is where the toughest NFL defenses reside and it's not going to be easy.
HawkFan72":2p9xfxkg said:Think the D will be a little worse, but the O will be improved. Overall we will not be as good as last year (would be tough to top that even if all the same players were back), but still an elite, Top 3 team with a chance to repeat.
MysterMatt":x4np1m0l said:Kearse makes some big plays, but then totally disappears for games at a time. He's a really good 4th WR and a gamer, but c'mon.
AsylumGuido":3pjqqjq7 said:kidhawk":3pjqqjq7 said:kjreid":3pjqqjq7 said:If the season started tomorrow we would not be the "world beaters" we were last year but we will be the 1 or 2 seed and a West crown. I don't see any of the other west teams over taking us (although with everyone of there moves they have all gotten better). We might only win the Super bowl by 2 touchdowns next year
To be totally honest, the only problem I foresee for next season (as things are right now) is winning the West. The winner of the NFC west should still be favored to win it all, no matter who it is. I still think we have to be the favorites, but it wasn't the cake walk many people make it out to be. The Niners were nipping at our heels and the Rams and Cardinals are both improving. This division is where the toughest NFL defenses reside and it's not going to be easy.
It is the very toughness of the West that may hamper the Seahawks. The Saints will be improved over the 2013 version and the Panthers are far worse. That scenario could very well give the Saints the #1 seed over whichever team comes out of the West, which could very well spoil the Hawks' chances at a repeat.
MysterMatt":j1wah8ri said:As for the D? It's also gone backwards with the loss of at least two key components, McDonald and Clemons.
Clemons provided very little last season and McDonald was a preseason roster cut. Yet, you refer to them as key components. McDonald was the beneficiary of Avril and Bennett's production.
Spare me the tripe about Scruggs, etc, those are just bodies who've yet to really prove anything.
kidhawk":2i8204f2 said:MysterMatt":2i8204f2 said:Keep in mind that I'm not saying we should have broke the bank to keep any player, but:
There is a reason Giacomini started immediately upon his return: Bowie sucks at pass protection and didn't really show any improvement. If he's the answer, he's a step backward. He and Bailey give one hope, but they aren't as good as what we lost. Our OL depends on "ifs" at this point.
Kearse makes some big plays, but then totally disappears for games at a time. He's a really good 4th WR and a gamer, but c'mon.
If you think Clemons wasn't a big contributor in the pass rush, I think you're knowledgeable enough to know better. He put on consistent pressure can kept things contained well on his side. The Leo is a big question mark at this point.
I agree that we are still really good, but the Rams and Cards at least are catching up, and we got by the niners by the skin of our teeth. I agree completely that we can still contend for the SB, but at this point there are too many "what ifs" to say we're anything other than regressed in some very important positions. We'll just have to see.
While I agree it is risky replacing Giacomini with Bowie, you have to consider that Bowie wasn't ready to start when they threw him out there out of necessity and we also had McQuistan on the other side at the same time making our entire line much weaker. Also, we have more time to work with him this off season. Offensive lineman generally improve consistently over their first few years in the league (if they are going to be successful). There is no guarantee that will happen, but considering last year's team had Bowie playing a considerable amount of time, it's not THAT big of a regression to have him out there again this year. Still though we lack any real depth here and that issue is ready to rear it's ugly head at any time.
As for WR, Kearse isn't why we are better there, the fact is, Harvin will be a full year removed from his surgery and should be ready to go game one this year. That alone improves the WR core even with the loss of Tate. Baldwin and Kearse are good enough to handle the number 2 and 3 roles, but again we lack depth and we also lack a tall WR. We could trot out one of our three TE to give us that big WR at any time, so if we don't get one in the draft or via FA, we can always do that. I believe that all three TE on our roster are solid ball catchers and can be a good target for Wilson.
You are correct, I think that our biggest loss came at DE, but that is a position we are overly stacked at. I absolutely LOVED Clemons' motor and what he did on this team and I wanted him to stay, but even without him, we still have Bennett and Avril and can bring up Irvin to rush the passer at any given time as well. I think this still leaves this position in an overall strong category going into the season. We also have several young guys that didn't get a lot of time last season that I look forward to seeing rotate in more this year. Honestly I think we are good on the Dline for this year. My concern on Defense right now is our lack of depth at the LB and DB positions. As far as our starting units go, I still see this as a top defense in the league.
In all honesty I think we are pretty much in agreement here I just see our glass as half full while you are looking at it as half empty (so to speak). We both agree that we can win the Super Bowl again and we both agree that it's going to be a tough road, but honestly, although it doesn't feel that way now, it was pretty tough last year. Winning our division will be key.
Right now, I'm holding off completely judging this team one way or the other because there's still the draft and a lot of off season to go to tweak the roster and get our depth built back up, and I'm interested to see what we do between now and September.
AsylumGuido":2bt49a1v said:kidhawk":2bt49a1v said:kjreid":2bt49a1v said:If the season started tomorrow we would not be the "world beaters" we were last year but we will be the 1 or 2 seed and a West crown. I don't see any of the other west teams over taking us (although with everyone of there moves they have all gotten better). We might only win the Super bowl by 2 touchdowns next year
To be totally honest, the only problem I foresee for next season (as things are right now) is winning the West. The winner of the NFC west should still be favored to win it all, no matter who it is. I still think we have to be the favorites, but it wasn't the cake walk many people make it out to be. The Niners were nipping at our heels and the Rams and Cardinals are both improving. This division is where the toughest NFL defenses reside and it's not going to be easy.
It is the very toughness of the West that may hamper the Seahawks. The Saints will be improved over the 2013 version and the Panthers are far worse. That scenario could very well give the Saints the #1 seed over whichever team comes out of the West, which could very well spoil the Hawks' chances at a repeat.