Wilson is Average

[Seymour]

I'm a pretty fair critic of Russell Wilson and have been labeled by some as a "hater", but even I will say that he is not average. There's 32 starting quarterbacks in this league, and Russell is undeniably in the top ten by any measure, top 5 by some.

As far as "$h!t the bed" in the 2nd half Sunday, I don't agree with that description, either. To me, "$h!t the bed" would involve turning the ball over, something that Wilson hasn't done all season. The only time this season that I would agree with that characterization would be his performance in overtime vs. the Titans.

This is almost on the level of being a trollish thread, designed to inflame opinions, provoke others into an equally inflammatory response, and turn a good forum with thoughtful discussions into a collection of pissing contests.

Nailed it!

That is exactly what it is. It is so far from reality it is just ridiculous to anyone with working eyeballs and a functioning brain.

I've been away for a while, I guess this is OK nowadays.... Sad.

 

[zchurch74]

Been saying this for years and taking heat. I will go back to my one question. Give me one game we needed a game winning drive and Russ was able to lead the team to a touchdown.

I will give you the one and ONLY, NFC championship. Other than that ONE. There aren’t any. He has shit the bed every time and it’s the defense who always has saved us. This year there is no defense.

Russ may be a great QB but he cannot win games. Hero ball doesn’t work. 5-10 yard quick passes do. The problem is Russ never sees these throws or checks out of them for the scramble and hero throw.

 

[John63]

Been saying this for years and taking heat. I will go back to my one question. Give me one game we needed a game winning drive and Russ was able to lead the team to a touchdown.

I will give you the one and ONLY, NFC championship. Other than that ONE. There aren’t any. He has $h!t the bed every time and it’s the defense who always has saved us. This year there is no defense.

Russ may be a great QB but he cannot win games. Hero ball doesn’t work. 5-10 yard quick passes do. The problem is Russ never sees these throws or checks out of them for the scramble and hero throw.

you do know we have something called the internet

https://eatdrinkandsleepfootball.com/stats/nfl/game-winning-drives/


Rank Player GWD Years
1 Peyton Manning 54 1998-2015
2 Drew Brees 53 2001-2020
3 Tom Brady 48 2000-2020
4 Dan Marino 47 1983-1999
5 Ben Roethlisberger 46 2004-2020
6 Brett Favre 43 1991-2010
7 John Elway 40 1983-1998
8 Matt Ryan 38 2008-2020
Matthew Stafford 38 2009-2020
Johnny Unitas 38 1956-1973
11 Eli Manning 37 2004-2019
12 Warren Moon 35 1984-2000
Carson Palmer 35 2004-2017
Philip Rivers 35 2004-2020
15 Fran Tarkenton 33 1961-1978
Vinny Testaverde 33 1987-2007
17 Drew Bledsoe 31 1993-2006
Russell Wilson 31 2012-2020


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/comeback.cgi?player=WilsRu00

24 Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 31 Game-Winning Drives
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Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD Notes
1 2012 3 2012-09-24 23-300 SEA GNB W 14-12 10 21 47.62 130 2 0 99.3 6.19 8.10 3 18 6.00 0 4QC / GWD
2 2012 6 2012-10-14 23-320 SEA NWE W 24-23 16 27 59.26 293 3 0 133.7 10.85 13.07 5 17 3.40 0 4QC / GWD
3 2012 12 2012-12-02 24-003 SEA @ CHI W 23-17 23 37 62.16 293 2 0 104.9 7.92 9.00 9 71 7.89 0 4QC / GWD
4 2012 16 2012-12-30 24-031 SEA STL W 20-13 15 19 78.95 250 1 0 136.3 13.16 14.21 10 58 5.80 1 GWD
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD Notes
5 2013 1 2013-09-08 24-283 SEA @ CAR W 12-7 25 33 75.76 320 1 0 115.7 9.70 10.30 5 7 1.40 0 4QC / GWD
6 2013 4 2013-09-29 24-304 SEA @ HOU W 23-20 12 23 52.17 123 0 1 49.7 5.35 3.39 10 77 7.70 0 4QC / GWD
7 2013 6 2013-10-13 24-318 SEA TEN W 20-13 23 31 74.19 257 0 0 98.5 8.29 8.29 10 61 6.10 0 GWD
8 2013 9 2013-11-03 24-339 SEA TAM W 27-24 19 26 73.08 217 2 2 91.3 8.35 6.42 6 36 6.00 1 4QC / GWD
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD Notes
9 2014 3 2014-09-21 25-296 SEA DEN W 26-20 24 34 70.59 258 2 1 99.9 7.59 7.44 9 40 4.44 0 GWD
10 2014 7 2014-10-26 25-331 SEA @ CAR W 13-9 20 32 62.50 199 1 1 77.5 6.22 5.44 6 35 5.83 0 4QC / GWD
11 2014 9 2014-11-09 25-345 SEA NYG W 38-17 10 17 58.82 172 0 2 53.7 10.12 4.82 14 107 7.64 1 GWD
12 2014 16 2014-12-28 26-029 SEA STL W 20-6 17 25 68.00 239 0 1 81.9 9.56 7.76 6 7 1.17 0 GWD
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD Notes
13 2015 8 2015-11-01 26-337 SEA @ DAL W 13-12 19 30 63.33 210 1 1 81.3 7.00 6.17 6 32 5.33 0 4QC / GWD
14 2015 11 2015-11-29 27-000 SEA PIT W 39-30 21 30 70.00 345 5 0 147.9 11.50 14.83 4 14 3.50 0 4QC / GWD
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD Notes
15 2016 1 2016-09-11 27-287 SEA MIA W 12-10 27 43 62.79 258 1 1 77.5 6.00 5.42 4 16 4.00 0 4QC / GWD
16 2016 5 2016-10-16 27-322 SEA ATL W 26-24 25 37 67.57 270 0 0 88.8 7.30 7.30 6 7 1.17 0 4QC / GWD
17 2016 6 2016-10-23 27-329 SEA @ ARI T 6-6 24 37 64.86 225 0 0 81.5 6.08 6.08 1 -2 -2.00 0 4QC
18 2016 9 2016-11-13 27-350 SEA @ NWE W 31-24 25 37 67.57 348 3 0 124.6 9.41 11.03 3 6 2.00 0 4QC / GWD
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD Notes
19 2017 2 2017-09-17 28-292 SEA SFO W 12-9 23 39 58.97 198 1 0 80.9 5.08 5.59 12 34 2.83 0 4QC / GWD
20 2017 7 2017-10-29 28-334 SEA HOU W 41-38 26 41 63.41 452 4 1 123.2 11.02 11.88 4 30 7.50 0 4QC / GWD
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD Notes
21 2018 4 2018-09-30 29-305 SEA @ ARI W 20-17 19 26 73.08 172 0 0 90.5 6.62 6.62 4 21 5.25 0 GWD
22 2018 10 2018-11-15 29-351 SEA GNB W 27-24 21 31 67.74 225 2 0 110.3 7.26 8.55 5 17 3.40 0 4QC / GWD
23 2018 11 2018-11-25 29-361 SEA @ CAR W 30-27 22 31 70.97 339 2 0 128.3 10.94 12.23 3 4 1.33 0 4QC / GWD
24 2018 16 2018-12-30 30-031 SEA ARI W 27-24 12 21 57.14 152 1 1 75.9 7.24 6.05 2 -2 -1.00 0 GWD
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD Notes
25 2019 1 2019-09-08 30-283 SEA CIN W 21-20 14 20 70.00 195 2 0 134.4 9.75 11.75 4 8 2.00 0 4QC / GWD
26 2019 5 2019-10-03 30-308 SEA LAR W 30-29 17 23 73.91 268 4 0 151.8 11.65 15.13 8 32 4.00 0 4QC / GWD
27 2019 6 2019-10-13 30-318 SEA @ CLE W 32-28 23 33 69.70 295 2 0 117.6 8.94 10.15 9 31 3.44 1 4QC / GWD
28 2019 9 2019-11-03 30-339 SEA TAM W 40-34 29 43 67.44 378 5 0 133.7 8.79 11.12 1 21 21.00 0 4QC / GWD
29 2019 10 2019-11-11 30-347 SEA @ SFO W 27-24 24 34 70.59 232 1 1 86.9 6.82 6.09 6 53 8.83 0 GWD
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD Notes
30 2020 3 2020-09-27 31-303 SEA DAL W 38-31 27 40 67.50 315 5 0 130.7 7.88 10.38 6 22 3.67 0 4QC / GWD
31 2020 5 2020-10-11 31-317 SEA MIN W 27-26 20 32 62.50 217 3 1 100.7 6.78 7.25 5 58 11.60 0 4QC / GWD
32 2020 16 2021-01-03 32-035 SEA @ SFO W 26-23 20 36 55.56 181 2 0 87.8 5.03 6.14 5 29 5.80 0 4QC / GWD
4 Postseason Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 4 Postseason Game-Winning Drives
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD Notes
1 2012 17 2013-01-06 24-038 SEA @ WAS W 24-14 15 26 57.69 187 1 0 92.9 7.19 7.96 8 67 8.38 0 4QC / GWD
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD Notes
2 2013 18 2014-01-19 25-051 SEA SFO W 23-17 16 25 64.00 215 1 0 104.6 8.60 9.40 5 0 0.00 0 4QC / GWD
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD Notes
3 2014 18 2015-01-18 26-050 SEA GNB W 28-22 14 29 48.28 209 1 4 44.3 7.21 1.69 7 25 3.57 1 4QC / GWD
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD Notes
4 2015 17 2016-01-10 27-042 SEA @ MIN W 10-9 13 26 50.00 142 1 1 63.3 5.46 4.50 5 21 4.20 0 4QC / GWD


narrative change in 3-2-1

 

[SoulfishHawk]

The Vikings game last year. He took the team down for a game winning drive, in the pouring rain, Game winning drives? He has done that as much as about any QB in the history of the game.
He can't win games? Holy hell. I think it's time for me to take a break from this page. People are just literally making crap up now.

 

[bandiger]

If Wilson was average, Pete would have been long gone by now. Average QBs don't allow coaches to have long careers unless the owner is absent or doesn't care.

 

[John63]

The Vikings game last year. He took the team down for a game winning drive, in the pouring rain, Game winning drives? He has done that as much as about any QB in the history of the game.
He can't win games? Holy hell. I think it's time for me to take a break from this page. People are just literally making crap up now.

Let's not forget the number of times he should have had the game-winning drive only to have the defense give it up, like with 23 seconds to go, such as the Atlanta playoff game in 2013.

 

[chris98251]

The Vikings game last year. He took the team down for a game winning drive, in the pouring rain, Game winning drives? He has done that as much as about any QB in the history of the game.
He can't win games? Holy hell. I think it's time for me to take a break from this page. People are just literally making crap up now.

Let's not forget the number of times he should have had the game-winning drive only to have the defense give it up, like with 23 seconds to go, such as the Atlanta playoff game in 2013.

Oh and lets not forget the times that he led them down the field and the kicker missed, or the times he led them down the field and the RB didn't make it in the end zone, or the times he led them down the field only to have a pesky DB intercept him in the end zone, or the times that he led them down the field and the WR dropped the ball, or the times that he led them down the field and there was a penalty called ruining his chances.

 

[zchurch74]

John

Give me a meaningful game. A playoff game? Last two years 1 and done.

There are so many QBs that have passed Russ. Russ is no longer a top 10 QB in the NFL

 

[RiverDog]

John

Give me a meaningful game. A playoff game? Last two years 1 and done.

There are so many QBs that have passed Russ. Russ is no longer a top 10 QB in the NFL

That's not necessarily a good measure. Drew Brees has a so-so playoff record at best, only one SB appearance. Aaron Rodgers is 1-4 in conference championship games. Dan Fouts never made it to the Super Bowl. You could ask that question at various points in any QB's career.

Having said that, like you, I'm very disappointed in Russell's recent playoff failures and in the past two games. But that doesn't mean that he's not a very good quarterback.

 

[John63]

John

Give me a meaningful game. A playoff game? Last two years 1 and done.

There are so many QBs that have passed Russ. Russ is no longer a top 10 QB in the NFL

ahh so now you are changing the goal post because you were called out and proven wrong. What's next to give me one time on a Tuesday when he did it?



You said he has not and you were proven wrong enough said


Oh and FYI all 3 of his comeback wins last year were important and meaningful, we do not win them, no playoffs and we are 9-7. thanks for playing

 

[TwistedHusky]

It would be tremendously difficult for ANY great QB to be effective in a playoff game when HC is putting gameplans in place that hamstring him.

Judging Wilson by playoff success seems to dismiss the reality that many of our playoff games (with the exception of the Panthers game we lost and the Packers game we won) start off with us maniacally trying to run the ball, often into 8 man fronts before we decide to open up the offense after the half.

Of course, by then we are usually down by multiple TDs (unless in a wildcard game).

Wilson cannot overcome the combination of terrible gameplanning and horrible gameday decisions by the coaches - but what QB could?

Maybe Manning, Brady, a few others - but only because they would tell their coach to stuff it.

We don't prepare well. We use simplistic plans. We attempt to hide nothing and so are tremendously easy to prepare for. And we usually have at least one below par/incompetent assistant coach on the sideline because Carroll likes to be loyal even when the coordinator produces zero results.

That is a ton for Wilson to overcome.

Wilson is not as great as he thinks he is. But he is a hell of lot better than his playoff record says he is because Carroll isn't much of an asset in those kinds of games anymore.

 

[zchurch74]

Russ is very good but that’s it. No longer Elite and never really was. What happened to all the Russ for MVP talk this year. It’s gone completely silence since week 2.

 

[5thgen]

Russ is very good but that’s it. No longer Elite and never really was. What happened to all the Russ for MVP talk this year. It’s gone completely silence since week 2.

MVP? I'd be happy if he's top 5 or even top 10.

 

[John63]

Russ is very good but that’s it. No longer Elite and never really was. What happened to all the Russ for MVP talk this year. It’s gone completely silence since week 2.

MVP? I'd be happy if he's top 5 or even top 10.

really well you should be happy then as that is what you got


Wilson
8th in yards
7th in completion %
1st in ypa
5th in tds
1st in ints(meaning fewest)
1st in passer rating


oh and ha doing all that while only getting the 26th most attempts.

So I am glad you are happy now.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Russ is very good but that’s it. No longer Elite and never really was. What happened to all the Russ for MVP talk this year. It’s gone completely silence since week 2.

Idk how old you are, or how long you've been a fan. But if you can't see that Russell is a top 5 QB in the league then you might want to watch some more football, or go back and look at the endless parade of "average" QB's we've had over the years.

Again, whatever metric you'd like to use. Wins, TD's, QBR, yards, completion percentage, success. Whatever, and Wilson's been in the top 10, if not the top 5 in the entire league for a decade.

So my guess is some of you guys either don't watch football other than the Hawks, and/or haven't watched the Hawks before 2012, or else you wouldn't be so naive to this conversation.

 

[chris98251]

Russ is very good but that’s it. No longer Elite and never really was. What happened to all the Russ for MVP talk this year. It’s gone completely silence since week 2.

Idk how old you are, or how long you've been a fan. But if you can't see that Russell is a top 5 QB in the league then you might want to watch some more football, or go back and look at the endless parade of "average" QB's we've had over the years.

Again, whatever metric you'd like to use. Wins, TD's, QBR, yards, completion percentage, success. Whatever, and Wilson's been in the top 10, if not the top 5 in the entire league for a decade.

So my guess is some of you guys either don't watch football other than the Hawks, and/or haven't watched the Hawks before 2012, or else you wouldn't be so naive to this conversation.

Thats the enigma that is Wilson, IF he could fill in the hole in his game by using the whole field regularly he could be top 3 easily, the offense would struggle much less and everyone's stats and touches would go up. Yes he would have some higher interception numbers most likely, but team success would be better and the defense by logic would be more rested and we would have more time of possession.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Russ is very good but that’s it. No longer Elite and never really was. What happened to all the Russ for MVP talk this year. It’s gone completely silence since week 2.

Idk how old you are, or how long you've been a fan. But if you can't see that Russell is a top 5 QB in the league then you might want to watch some more football, or go back and look at the endless parade of "average" QB's we've had over the years.

Again, whatever metric you'd like to use. Wins, TD's, QBR, yards, completion percentage, success. Whatever, and Wilson's been in the top 10, if not the top 5 in the entire league for a decade.

So my guess is some of you guys either don't watch football other than the Hawks, and/or haven't watched the Hawks before 2012, or else you wouldn't be so naive to this conversation.

Thats the enigma that is Wilson, IF he could fill in the hole in his game by using the whole field regularly he could be top 3 easily, the offense would struggle much less and everyone's stats and touches would go up. Yes he would have some higher interception numbers most likely, but team success would be better and the defense by logic would be more rested and we would have more time of possession.

Wilson has holes in his game, as does every QB.

But that's why we keep stats, and that's why also talk about the intangibles of what makes a great player.

So again, name the metric or intangible and Wilson's in the elite category of current NFL QB's........on his way to putting on a gold jacket. Which in the modern era of football correct me if I'm wrong, they don't give to "average" QB's.

 

[Scorpion05]

A QB who scores 35-40 TDs every season for the past 5-6 years is an average QB. Oh my, well folks apparently the Russ fans are the crazy hateful ones :sarcasm_on:

Oh and apparently Rodgers (1 Superbowl appearance, top defense), Brees (1 Superbowl appearance, top defense), Josh Allen, Peyton Manning (mostly playoff losses). These are all bad QBs due to their playoff history.

Oh wait no that's not right. We're just holding Russ to a double standard again aren't we. What do we say about people who intentionally hold other human beings to a double standard again?

 

[TwistedHusky]

You could argue that for someone getting paid the amount he is, and how it impacts being able to pay for defense - he isn't producing enough.

You could argue that for the amount of visibility he is seeking and the pushing of his brand, he needs to drive more results on the field.

I could turn around and argue that his coach has a system that only allows him to succeed on the edges and does little to prepare him for producing in the playoffs.

I could further argue that the entire system Pete set up works primarily against below .500 teams and does keep us in games against the above .500 teams. However, it actually makes it harder to compete and win consistently against playoff-caliber teams ESPECIALLY in the playoffs themselves.

But what you cannot argue is that Wilson is average.

Wilson is exceptionally good at things that few QBs are good at. He is also probably not incredibly good at some of the things that many QBs are good at. But not only can you not call him average, you cannot even call him inconsistent.

Not even sure how you make the argument, is this just the forum equivalent of Click Bait?
(If so I guess it worked)

 

[Maelstrom787]

A QB who scores 35-40 TDs every season for the past 5-6 years is an average QB. Oh my, well folks apparently the Russ fans are the crazy hateful ones :sarcasm_on:

Oh and apparently Rodgers (1 Superbowl appearance, top defense), Brees (1 Superbowl appearance, top defense), Josh Allen, Peyton Manning (mostly playoff losses). These are all bad QBs due to their playoff history.

Oh wait no that's not right. We're just holding Russ to a double standard again aren't we. What do we say about people who intentionally hold other human beings to a double standard again?

"We" is too easy. Call out the specific people who are saying this, imo.