Wilson vs. Newton and the perception of greatness

[RichNhansom]

lol damn there are some salty people in this thread

Cam is being talked about more than Russell right now because, well it's Super Bowl week and Cam is playing in it. It's called a story line. It helps that he is also the NFL MVP and just had a historic season and dominate NFC Championship game.

The media rides the most recent thing they saw. So, the most recent thing they've seen is a Panthers team led by Cam Newton that dominated Seattle for 30 minutes before taking the 2nd half off, and then completely destroy a Cardinals team that was considered at least the second best team in the NFL.

So there you have it. No need to compare Cam to Kaepernick. Anyone that actually watches football and isn't just a fanboy can see Cam is lightyears ahead of Kaep in reading defenses and playing from the pocket.

This offseason there will be plenty of discussion of top QBs and Russell Wilson's name will be near the top of the list. There is still one more game to promote, so that's why you aren't hearing it now.

Your definitely not wrong. Espeacially about the Kaep comparison but really no one here is comparing Cam to Kaep, just the hype he got for good year. Jaws proclaimed he would be the greatest QB of all time.

I'm sure to those who are just checking in we probably appear over sensitive but if you had been along for the entire ride you would understand.

Wilson just threw 3 TD's in the probowl and was named offensive MVP but he did it in less time his rookie year (threw 3 td's in a quarter of play) and still didn't win it. Back then the NFL world was busy selling Luck and RG3, either of which given the same performance would have won MVP hands down.

It's been a very long road for Wilson to get the accolades he is getting now which are the same acolades Luck got before he entered the NFL and miltiple QB's have gotten from a single season's performance.

It probably comes off as slamming Cam but really it is looking at the whole body of work instead of just one year.

 

[McGruff]

You are never going to win the discussion of who is greater this year when one team has only one loss en route to the SB and the other is out. Unfortunately, wins is more important than the context of all numbers, no matter where they are in reality.

Except when Russell is the one in the Superbowl with more wins in 3 years than any QB in history but it's only cause of the defense and running game and he's not even in the top ten today, much less all time.

 

[BelgianHawk]

As much as I hate Newton, as a dual-threat QB he's pretty unique and not really comparable to Wilson.
The designed QB runs and rushing TD's set him apart this season. Wilson will always primarily be a passer who rushes when the possibility presents itself, rather than planned. I can understand if people view that as being more of a real dual-threat.

In every topic concerning media coverage, the one thing you should always keep in mind is that their job is to generate attention and traffic. With the season the Panthers have had, it's only natural that they focus their attention on that team. Even though their defense has played great (certainly turnover-wise) Cam is the one polarising opinions. Even when a teammate scores, he'll be the one generating attention. Even if it's only to hate on it, most people will rather read an article about Newton than about Kuechly for example. In the same way, leading up to the Seahawks Superbowls, the Legion Of Boom and Beastmode were simply stronger 'brands' for the general public than Wilson was. It's only this season that Wilson has become the face of this Seahawks team. He's unlucky that the results didn't go our way, as he's clearly been getting a lot more praise than before during the course of this season and would be equally praised if we got to the SB.

When looking at the bigger picture and comparing both as QB's in general, Wilson has the edge based on his consistent improvement as a passer and performances in difficult circumstances. As good a year as Newton has had, the one thing that was striking was the time he had to pick out his target. The difference between a good QB and a great QB is what he can do under pressure. Doesn't matter which way, can be by getting the ball out quicker, by scrambling around etc but a truly great QB will still find a way to deliver. I didn't really get the idea that Newton has been tested on that front this season. Great OL-play and quick (and large) leads have made life a lot easier on him this season. It's too early to say he has overcome the flaws that held him back before.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'm not usually one to bang the East Coast Bias drum, but reading all the hype leading up to the big game next week, it's hard not to feel slighted as a Seahawks fan. I'm seeing article after article about how Cam Newton is the best dual threat QB ever, or how he's the next Brady or Manning, particularly since he's going against Manning and it sets up this "passing the mantle" narrative.?

Don't feel bad, it's not your fault. You've been raised in a professional sports environment in Seattle to automatically knee jerk outrage over even the smallest of slights to our players and teams..............regardless of validity or truth.

Is this condition treatable? Unfortunately it's not. All you can do is spend as much time with your loved ones as possible. WHY GOD WHY!?

 

[crosfam]

I don't worry about "who is best" argument. But it will be him and Newton in the spotlight for the next 4-5 years.

But our guy has been in the league 4 years. Pro bowl selection four years. MVP both times he played in the game. In the SB the other two years, winning one, in just his second season. Went to the payoffs every season of his career so far, winning at least one playoff game each season.

I would "drop the mike" if I believed in silly, trendy phrases like that.

 

[WindCityHawk]

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing the glaring omissions in the media. Even today I'm reading aboout why Newton should be MVP because of what he accomplished with such an "anonymous" supporting cast, clearly ignoring Wilson's record-setting stretch this year with two undrafted WRs and an undrafted rookie RB. But, I guess leaning on Greg Olsen takes more skill, somehow.

I suppose it's my fault for reading the articles, but you guys are right, time will iron it all out.

 

[dbmack]

I don't worry about "who is best" argument. But it will be him and Newton in the spotlight for the next 4-5 years.

But our guy has been in the league 4 years. Pro bowl selection four years. MVP both times he played in the game. In the SB the other two years, winning one, in just his second season. Went to the payoffs every season of his career so far, winning at least one playoff game each season.

I would "drop the mike" if I believed in silly, trendy phrases like that.

Russell was not MVP of the Pro Bowl his rookie year. He should have been but that doesn't count.

 

[Ramfan128]

Cam had a better season this year...it's that simple.

Right now, he's a better player than Wilson. But I don't give much credence to the records or even winning a super bowl - those are team accomplishments.

Cam just looked better to me this year. Scary to think that he did it with a very good WR injured for the entire season...should get better next year.

 

[francois.nc]

Either way you want to argue, it has been a great ride for both of them so far in their careers. Wilson taking over for Hasselbeck and leading his team to 4 straight playoffs.

Newton resurrecting a franchise that was 2-14 to the playoffs the last three years and now a possible SB.

The next 10 years should be pretty fun between the both us. I would expect either you or us to represent for the foreseeable future. As Earl Thomas said to Cam, it's our turn.

Can't wait to play you guys in the future, every game has been in my minds instant classic.

 

[bmorepunk]

Some of our posters showed a significant insecurity regarding Andrew Luck, and it seems to be shifting to Newton.

Russell Wilson is awesome. I don't know why some of you guys care so much about what sports media says about him or other players.

 

[scutterhawk]

Saw a clip from some ESPN show a little while ago saying that Newton-Luck will be the great QB rivalry going forward and the Wilson would fade away. He just doesn't have the pedigree. Think it was Max Kellerman who said that (it was before the NFCC game last week).

Gotta admit, one of the things that sucks most about the Hawks losing last week is that people who make statements like that feel vindicated.

You know a journalist is a dummy when he thinks there can be a great rivalry between an AFC and an NFC QB, because, you know, they play once every FOUR years!

As a Panther fan, Russell Wilson deserves more love. I love Cam's season, but Wilson has won at least one playoff game in all four of his seasons, and has been performing at a higher level longer. For someone to say someone as accurate, evasive, hard working, and already successful as Wilson is going to "fade away", they should be stripped of their press credentials.

^ THIS ^
The Panthers Whole Team earned the rights for all the headlines.
Andrew Luck?, meh, not so much, there's a whole lot of unsubstantiated speculation that he's the one to beat?
I said in another post, If Luck is going to be getting all the accolades, he'd best get his ass in gear, because Wilson & Newton are actually DOING something to prove that they're on top.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Some of our posters showed a significant insecurity regarding Andrew Luck, and it seems to be shifting to Newton.

Russell Wilson is awesome. I don't know why some of you guys care so much about what sports media says about him or other players.

Yeah, you just have to get to the point where you are numb to the nonsense and shake it off.

I actually saw more than one 'analyst' say that Wilson only ran once during the Pro Bowl because the game plan 'forced him to stay in the pocket,' and that was a good thing because it finally 'forced' him to work on his 'weakness.' At that point, you know practically NO research was done prior to jacking their Jaw. Past highlights of him running must stick in their mind, so they conveniently slide him into the 'running QB' category and base their 'analysis' off of sweeping generalizations about 'running QB's' ukeface:

They obviously didn't pay attention to the last half of the season, and never mind that he had no need to take off running with a PB OL and WR's in front of him. SMH..

 

[Pantherxtreme]

I'm not usually one to bang the East Coast Bias drum, but reading all the hype leading up to the big game next week, it's hard not to feel slighted as a Seahawks fan. I'm seeing article after article about how Cam Newton is the best dual threat QB ever, or how he's the next Brady or Manning, particularly since he's going against Manning and it sets up this "passing the mantle" narrative.

Maybe it's only because Newton is playing next weekend and Wilson isn't, but isn't Wilson the one racking up records left and right for passer rating, passing efficiency, quantifiable dual threat numbers (first to combine 4k passing and 500 rushing)? Wins? And hasn't he already beat Manning on the biggest stage? Newton is good at his job, don't get me wrong, but how has he somehow leap-frogged Wilson in the public eye when all he's done is less?

FYI....Cam passed for over 4051 yards as a rookie which was a record and rushed for 741 yards and scored 14 rushing Tds which is an all-time Qb record. So no Russell was not the first to reach that plateau.

Basically when Cam was coming out of college it was so much garbage spewed by the media oh why this guy shouldn't be the #1 player taken, You had "experts" actually saying Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker were better prospects at the position. And then Cam explodes onto the scene his rookie season, breaking passing records back to back in his first 2 games and resurrecting a Panthers offense that was dead last a season prior to him being drafted. Players like RG3 owe Cam a debt of gratitude, because after the Vince Young debacle teams had started to steer away from the mobile athletic Qb and or drafting them high, but after Cam's explosive rookie year he made that trend relevant again. As a matter of fact personally I think the Redskins organization sought a Qb in the draft with a RG3 skill set, solely how Cam Newton destroyed that team his rookie season.

And then comes the sophomore slump and our ex offensive coordinator season long resume for a head coaching job, Cam slumped and the team slumped, and now you have this new wave of young Qbs, Luck, Wilson, Kaepernick, RG3, and Cam becomes the forgotten one and all the rage was for the aforementioned guys and who would be the best among that crop. All the while Ron Rivera is cutting his teeth as a head coach shedding his conservative approach and becoming Riverboat Ron, Panthers fire their old Gm who had the team in Cap-hell and stripped of talent down the roster, Cam is slowly learning how to play the the game from the pocket, while the rest of the league still thinks he's just some 1 read, zone option Qb. And then it finally comes the together the talent of the collective 53 man roster improvement, matched with a uber-talented superstar who had quietly had matured in a small market was ready to take the league by storm.

It's similar to when Jordan entered the NBA, you had this guy who obviously was all world in talent, but his team didn't win at first, there were more complete teams in the way such as the Celtics, Pistons... But then Jordan finally figured it out, not just break records and scoring titles, but how to win. How to elevate the team around you.

And I think Cam figured it all out this year, how to win by elevating the players around him, and now the sky is the limit. Not saying that the Seahawks were the Panther's "Pistons" and Russell was Isaiah Thomas to Newton's Jordan. But I think you have two young teams with gifted Qbs who should be in the running for NFC supremacy for the next few years.

 

[Cary Kollins]

^ truth bomb

 

[AVL]

This is an incredibly noisy week. No matter how great Wilson is or may be, six inches will always be subtracted from the total. As long as he stays seven inches ahead he is golden.

 

[Ozzy]

Cam had a better season this year...it's that simple.

Right now, he's a better player than Wilson. But I don't give much credence to the records or even winning a super bowl - those are team accomplishments.

Cam just looked better to me this year. Scary to think that he did it with a very good WR injured for the entire season...should get better next year.

He really didn't though. I think you're a little biased because the Seahawks are in the division. Cam had more rushing tds but Wilson beat him in almost every single statistical category. I really don't care who's better and it's tough to compare different environments. Cam deserves all the accolades he's getting. I still think Wilson is better.

 

[RichNhansom]

^ truth bomb

Well except for the Jordon comparison. Jordan was the Bulls. Without him they were garbage. He returns and so do the championships.

Cam is as much a product of his system as he contributes to it. Two All Pro's on the O-line a probowl FB and RB of which both are very good blockers and good at catching out of the backfield, plus a probowl TE is the main reason we witnessed Cam's growth and maturation.

The problem is what happens when the O-line struggles like they always do or the schedule pits you against better compitition that is inevitable?

Cam definitely improved his play this year but expecting to constantly be playing the easiest schedule with some of the best offensive talent and protection in the league is not realistic.

At least with Wilson we have seen consistent growth year in and year out even behind an O-line that couldn't get worse and without help from elite level TE, FB or RB protection.

Now try and imagine what Wilson could do with 5 other pro bowlers on the offense with him. Time to survey the field, wait for plays to develop, have an actual pocket to step into and the mass amount of confidence that comes from playing in that system.

He's already out performed Cam in nearly every category every year in the league and this year even with zero other pro bowlers on offense to help against one of the toughest schedules he did it again.

If you like the Jordan reference you really need to be applying it to Wilson, not Cam. At least not yet and until he can prove he can do it against all odds like Wilson has done repeatedly.

 

[kjreid]

^ truth bomb

Well except for the Jordon comparison. Jordan was the Bulls. Without him they were garbage. He returns and so do the championships.

Cam is as much a product of his system as he contributes to it. Two All Pro's on the O-line a probowl FB and RB of which both are very good blockers and good at catching out of the backfield, plus a probowl TE is the main reason we witnessed Cam's growth and maturation.

The problem is what happens when the O-line struggles like they always do or the schedule pits you against better compitition that is inevitable?

Cam definitely improved his play this year but expecting to constantly be playing the easiest schedule with some of the best offensive talent and protection in the league is not realistic.

At least with Wilson we have seen consistent growth year in and year out even behind an O-line that couldn't get worse and without help from elite level TE, FB or RB protection.

Now try and imagine what Wilson could do with 5 other pro bowlers on the offense with him. Time to survey the field, wait for plays to develop, have an actual pocket to step into and the mass amount of confidence that comes from playing in that system.

He's already out performed Cam in nearly every category every year in the league and this year even with zero other pro bowlers on offense to help against one of the toughest schedules he did it again.

If you like the Jordan reference you really need to be applying it to Wilson, not Cam. At least not yet and until he can prove he can do it against all odds like Wilson has done repeatedly.

exactly but we will still get the Carolina trolls, it will just be a fact of life since most of the fan base in Carolina is a few years old and the team has only been around for a couple of decades and are just not that bright in NFL knowledge.

 

[WilsonMVP]

lol damn there are some salty people in this thread

Cam is being talked about more than Russell right now because, well it's Super Bowl week and Cam is playing in it. It's called a story line. It helps that he is also the NFL MVP and just had a historic season and dominate NFC Championship game.

The media rides the most recent thing they saw. So, the most recent thing they've seen is a Panthers team led by Cam Newton that dominated Seattle for 30 minutes before taking the 2nd half off, and then completely destroy a Cardinals team that was considered at least the second best team in the NFL.

So there you have it. No need to compare Cam to Kaepernick. Anyone that actually watches football and isn't just a fanboy can see Cam is lightyears ahead of Kaep in reading defenses and playing from the pocket.

This offseason there will be plenty of discussion of top QBs and Russell Wilson's name will be near the top of the list. There is still one more game to promote, so that's why you aren't hearing it now.

Your definitely not wrong. Espeacially about the Kaep comparison but really no one here is comparing Cam to Kaep, just the hype he got for good year. Jaws proclaimed he would be the greatest QB of all time.

I'm sure to those who are just checking in we probably appear over sensitive but if you had been along for the entire ride you would understand.

Wilson just threw 3 TD's in the probowl and was named offensive MVP but he did it in less time his rookie year (threw 3 td's in a quarter of play) and still didn't win it. Back then the NFL world was busy selling Luck and RG3, either of which given the same performance would have won MVP hands down.

It's been a very long road for Wilson to get the accolades he is getting now which are the same acolades Luck got before he entered the NFL and miltiple QB's have gotten from a single season's performance.

It probably comes off as slamming Cam but really it is looking at the whole body of work instead of just one year.

I have no idea how Wilson didnt get probowl MVP his rookie year...He was 8/10 with 98 yards and 3TD in about a quarter of play. Kyle Rudolph won the MVP with 5 catches 122 yards and a TD ...please..GTFO with that :roll:

 

[Cary Kollins]

^ truth bomb

Well except for the Jordon comparison. Jordan was the Bulls. Without him they were garbage. He returns and so do the championships.

Cam is as much a product of his system as he contributes to it. Two All Pro's on the O-line a probowl FB and RB of which both are very good blockers and good at catching out of the backfield, plus a probowl TE is the main reason we witnessed Cam's growth and maturation.

The problem is what happens when the O-line struggles like they always do or the schedule pits you against better compitition that is inevitable?

Cam definitely improved his play this year but expecting to constantly be playing the easiest schedule with some of the best offensive talent and protection in the league is not realistic.

At least with Wilson we have seen consistent growth year in and year out even behind an O-line that couldn't get worse and without help from elite level TE, FB or RB protection.

Now try and imagine what Wilson could do with 5 other pro bowlers on the offense with him. Time to survey the field, wait for plays to develop, have an actual pocket to step into and the mass amount of confidence that comes from playing in that system.

He's already out performed Cam in nearly every category every year in the league and this year even with zero other pro bowlers on offense to help against one of the toughest schedules he did it again.

If you like the Jordan reference you really need to be applying it to Wilson, not Cam. At least not yet and until he can prove he can do it against all odds like Wilson has done repeatedly.

meh, before this season lots of folks were knocking Carolina for not surrounding Cam with enough talent. Now there are all these probowlers, which Cam deserves some credit for making those around him better.

Of course, the Panthers GM has also done a phenomenal job building the roster. I'm not going to apologize for the Panthers having the best GM in the league. Sounds like the Seahawks might want to start building in Gettleman's mold if they want Wilson to reach Cam's level.